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This is not an attack on Richard, just my own musings!
------
I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican versus
vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think there is
a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and the
vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better guitars
in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American Fat
Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better (granted,
the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But as
far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
impossible to say that one was better than another.
Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are simply
labor and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious than
the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the same
quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to be),
but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from the
original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when quality
control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards of
today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his floor
workers cut corners when need-be and it shows up in a lot of vintage
guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a custom
color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint job,
they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
Which, to me, made perfect sense).
The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were some SD
pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle barrels and
heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for guitar +
$425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it seems
these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it. Besides,
they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement prices.
Too much time on my hands,
Gavin
> At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> there is always going to be a question of value...
A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with regards to
taking advantage of the International Division of Labor. Any lawers out there?
The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit that holds the
trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel on the US models. The
materials and engineering involved with the US Fender Jag and Jazzmaster are
more costly. The magnets are a "High HC" material that was used by Fender for
only a couple of years in the early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup
designer} to be able to figure out the reason why he heard a difference in
sound in those old pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US guitars are
eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting lacquer in
California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar paint facility.
Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like Brazilian Rosewood
fret boards that are not legally available now. Neck shapes in the old days, in
my opinion, had to satisfy a professional player, not so much the less critical,
casual owners of today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old
shapes for a small minority, is such a passion.
My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has a great neck,
which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The basswood on the Japan
guitars is a different variety than we get in the states, as I was told by the
head of Fender R&D. US guitars are a little too wide for my thumb-over big
stretches. Too bad for me because everything else is so right. Of course there
is always the Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster
one-offs, which, a few I've tried.
I guess that's enough rambling!
-dave
Gavin Ehringer <> wrote:This is not an attack on
Richard, just my own musings!
------
I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican versus
vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think there is
a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and the
vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better guitars
in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American Fat
Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better (granted,
the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But as
far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
impossible to say that one was better than another.
Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are simply
labor and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious than
the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the same
quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to be),
but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from the
original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when quality
control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards of
today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his floor
workers cut corners when need-be and it shows up in a lot of vintage
guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a custom
color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint job,
they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
Which, to me, made perfect sense).
The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were some SD
pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle barrels and
heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for guitar +
$425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it seems
these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it. Besides,
they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement prices.
Too much time on my hands,
Gavin
> At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> there is always going to be a question of value...
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What Dave W. said...obviously, the MIA Jags and JMs use better
materials, etc., then the Japanese knock-offs. The folks at Fender USA
went to a lot of trouble to recreate the classic originals. I think we
all recognize that they are much closer to the original specs than the
MIJs. For some, the cost is obviously justified for these specific
guitars.
What gets me is the knee-jerk reaction of many buyers (most, casual
players not as discerning as Dave Wronski, who I consider to be a
guitar demi-god) who favor American-made versus MIA/MIJ/MIK. I think
the quality of Fender's Mexican and Japanese guitars is very good,
especially considering price.
If my history is accurate, when CBS sold Fender most of the vintage
reissue production went to Japan because their luthiership was
superior at that time. Only through hard effort, research and
retooling has Fender America stepped up to the design standards that
made the company famous under Leo Fender.
I think the important thing is to give credit where it is due...the
CIJ and MIM guitars are quite good, if not on-par with the best of the
MIA guitars.
And as to paint, I am sure the nitrocellose laquer is a desireable
finish ? extremely thin, hard, quick drying, beautiful in its luster
and depth, and perhaps with sonic properties that make it superior to
the poly-wrapping that is used in other finishes. Props to Fender
America for bringing it back.
Gavin
--- In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with
regards to taking advantage of the International Division of Labor.
Any lawers out there?
>
> The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit that
holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel on the
US models. The materials and engineering involved with the US Fender
Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High HC"
material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in the
early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able to
figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in those old
pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
>
> The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US guitars
are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar
paint facility.
>
> Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners of
today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old shapes
for a small minority, is such a passion.
> My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has a
great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get in
the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars are a
little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster
one-offs, which, a few I've tried.
> I guess that's enough rambling!
> -dave
>
>
> Gavin Ehringer <gavinehringer@e...> wrote:This is not an attack on
Richard, just my own musings!
>
> ------
>
> I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican versus
> vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think there is
> a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
> assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and the
> vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
>
> Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better guitars
> in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
> better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
>
> I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American Fat
> Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better (granted,
> the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But as
> far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
> impossible to say that one was better than another.
>
> Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are simply
> labor ? and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious than
> the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
>
> Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the same
> quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to be),
> but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from the
> original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when quality
> control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards of
> today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his floor
> workers cut corners when need-be ? and it shows up in a lot of vintage
> guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a custom
> color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint job,
> they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
> Which, to me, made perfect sense).
>
> The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were some SD
> pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle barrels and
> heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for guitar +
> $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it seems
> these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it. Besides,
> they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement prices.
>
> Too much time on my hands,
>
> Gavin
>
>
> > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > there is always going to be a question of value...
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dave,
I thought your Jag was a Us reissue. Is this the one you use to
record?
-- In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with
regards to taking advantage of the International Division of Labor.
Any lawers out there?
>
> The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit
that holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel
on the US models. The materials and engineering involved with the US
Fender Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High
HC" material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in
the early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able
to figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in those
old pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
>
> The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US guitars
are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar
paint facility.
>
> Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners of
today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old shapes
for a small minority, is such a passion.
> My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has a
great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get in
the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars are
a little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster one-
offs, which, a few I've tried.
> I guess that's enough rambling!
> -dave
>
>
> Gavin Ehringer <gavinehringer@e...> wrote:This is not an attack on
Richard, just my own musings!
>
> ------
>
> I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican
versus
> vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think there
is
> a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
> assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and the
> vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
>
> Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better
guitars
> in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
> better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
>
> I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American Fat
> Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better
(granted,
> the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But
as
> far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
> impossible to say that one was better than another.
>
> Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are
simply
> labor and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious
than
> the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
>
> Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the
same
> quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to
be),
> but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from
the
> original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when
quality
> control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards
of
> today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his
floor
> workers cut corners when need-be and it shows up in a lot of
vintage
> guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a
custom
> color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint
job,
> they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
> Which, to me, made perfect sense).
>
> The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were some
SD
> pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle barrels
and
> heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for guitar
+
> $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it
seems
> these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it.
Besides,
> they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement prices.
>
> Too much time on my hands,
>
> Gavin
>
>
> > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > there is always going to be a question of value...
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My white Jaguar is a MIJ, 1996 model. The body is Basswood, the pickups are
Custom Prototypes made by Fred Stewart. The bridge is US made, and it has brass
saddles. The tailpiece is US made, and has been modified with three flat top
screws so the strings don't rub with the lower angle caused by the Buzzstop. I
re-fretted it twice, and also had to drill the key holes a little bit larger so
I could install the Kluson copies that the US guitars use. The Japan guitars use
"Ping" brand keys which are smaller and cheaper.
I used this guitar on almost all of "Into the Blue Sparkle", except for "Daytona
Mona" which is my '58 Strat, and "South Run" which is a US re-issue Jazzmaster.
My purple metal flake Jag is CIJ. It's alder, and sounds much different. I also
have a '63 Jaguar that I haven't recorded with yet, and I just finished putting
together a Jaguar with an original '62 neck and a US prototype Jaguar body. The
acoustic sound of that old neck is amazing! I guess it's the Easter Hardrock
Maple, and Brazilian Rosewood combination.
-dave
supertwangreverb <> wrote:Dave,
I thought your Jag was a Us reissue. Is this the one you use to
record?
-- In , dave wronski
wrote:
> A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with
regards to taking advantage of the International Division of Labor.
Any lawers out there?
>
> The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit
that holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel
on the US models. The materials and engineering involved with the US
Fender Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High
HC" material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in
the early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able
to figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in those
old pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
>
> The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US guitars
are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar
paint facility.
>
> Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners of
today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old shapes
for a small minority, is such a passion.
> My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has a
great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get in
the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars are
a little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster one-
offs, which, a few I've tried.
> I guess that's enough rambling!
> -dave
>
>
> Gavin Ehringer wrote:This is not an attack on
Richard, just my own musings!
>
> ------
>
> I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican
versus
> vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think there
is
> a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
> assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and the
> vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
>
> Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better
guitars
> in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
> better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
>
> I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American Fat
> Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better
(granted,
> the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But
as
> far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
> impossible to say that one was better than another.
>
> Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are
simply
> labor and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious
than
> the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
>
> Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the
same
> quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to
be),
> but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from
the
> original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when
quality
> control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards
of
> today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his
floor
> workers cut corners when need-be and it shows up in a lot of
vintage
> guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a
custom
> color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint
job,
> they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
> Which, to me, made perfect sense).
>
> The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were some
SD
> pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle barrels
and
> heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for guitar
+
> $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it
seems
> these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it.
Besides,
> they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement prices.
>
> Too much time on my hands,
>
> Gavin
>
>
> > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > there is always going to be a question of value...
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- dave wronski <> wrote:
> My white Jaguar is a MIJ, 1996 model. The body is
> Basswood
Dave, do you have a problem with the basswood body
dinging very easily? I have a CIJ Vista series
Jagmaster which is my favorite guitar, but every
little bump and gouge leaves a mark, whereas the alder
body on my Cyclone has taken several bumps and shows
none of them. Also, what other hardware did you
replace on your Jag (wires, switches, etc) and what
kind of pickguard did you put on it?
Richard
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
Dave, your use of the MIJ Jaguar on "Into the Blue Sparkle" should
convince even the weary that with slight mods the MIJ/CIJ are good
guitars for both gigging and recording. Thanks for the gear reply.
Bill
--- In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> My white Jaguar is a MIJ, 1996 model. The body is Basswood, the
pickups are Custom Prototypes made by Fred Stewart. The bridge is US
made, and it has brass saddles. The tailpiece is US made, and has
been modified with three flat top screws so the strings don't rub
with the lower angle caused by the Buzzstop. I re-fretted it twice,
and also had to drill the key holes a little bit larger so I could
install the Kluson copies that the US guitars use. The Japan guitars
use "Ping" brand keys which are smaller and cheaper.
> I used this guitar on almost all of "Into the Blue Sparkle",
except for "Daytona Mona" which is my '58 Strat, and "South Run"
which is a US re-issue Jazzmaster.
> My purple metal flake Jag is CIJ. It's alder, and sounds much
different. I also have a '63 Jaguar that I haven't recorded with
yet, and I just finished putting together a Jaguar with an
original '62 neck and a US prototype Jaguar body. The acoustic
sound of that old neck is amazing! I guess it's the Easter Hardrock
Maple, and Brazilian Rosewood combination.
> -dave
>
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:Dave,
>
> I thought your Jag was a Us reissue. Is this the one you use to
> record?
>
>
> -- In , dave wronski
> wrote:
> > A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room
with
> regards to taking advantage of the International Division of
Labor.
> Any lawers out there?
> >
> > The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit
> that holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened
steel
> on the US models. The materials and engineering involved with the
US
> Fender Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High
> HC" material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in
> the early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able
> to figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in
those
> old pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
> >
> > The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US
guitars
> are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
> lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million
dollar
> paint facility.
> >
> > Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
> Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
> Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
> professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners
of
> today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old
shapes
> for a small minority, is such a passion.
> > My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body
has a
> great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
> basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get
in
> the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars
are
> a little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
> because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
> Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster one-
> offs, which, a few I've tried.
> > I guess that's enough rambling!
> > -dave
> >
> >
> > Gavin Ehringer wrote:This is not an attack on
> Richard, just my own musings!
> >
> > ------
> >
> > I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican
> versus
> > vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think
there
> is
> > a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when
people
> > assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and
the
> > vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
> >
> > Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better
> guitars
> > in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they
make
> > better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and
Korea?
> >
> > I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American
Fat
> > Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better
> (granted,
> > the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music).
But
> as
> > far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would
be
> > impossible to say that one was better than another.
> >
> > Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are
> simply
> > labor and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious
> than
> > the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
> >
> > Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the
> same
> > quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to
> be),
> > but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from
> the
> > original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when
> quality
> > control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high
standards
> of
> > today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his
> floor
> > workers cut corners when need-be and it shows up in a lot of
> vintage
> > guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a
> custom
> > color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint
> job,
> > they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the
price!
> > Which, to me, made perfect sense).
> >
> > The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were
some
> SD
> > pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle
barrels
> and
> > heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for
guitar
> +
> > $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it
> seems
> > these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it.
> Besides,
> > they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement
prices.
> >
> > Too much time on my hands,
> >
> > Gavin
> >
> >
> > > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > > there is always going to be a question of value...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hey Dave,
I'm drooling over the mention of a '58 strat. I don't beleive I've seen you
play that one at any Slacktone gigs.
Now the big question:
What happened to your Mosrite that I saw you playin' in the early '80's with
J&TN? What did you think of that guitar?
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave wronski" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts, America
First! Blah, blah...
My white Jaguar is a MIJ, 1996 model. The body is Basswood, the pickups are
Custom Prototypes made by Fred Stewart. The bridge is US made, and it has
brass saddles. The tailpiece is US made, and has been modified with three
flat top screws so the strings don't rub with the lower angle caused by the
Buzzstop. I re-fretted it twice, and also had to drill the key holes a
little bit larger so I could install the Kluson copies that the US guitars
use. The Japan guitars use "Ping" brand keys which are smaller and cheaper.
I used this guitar on almost all of "Into the Blue Sparkle", except for
"Daytona Mona" which is my '58 Strat, and "South Run" which is a US re-issue
Jazzmaster.
My purple metal flake Jag is CIJ. It's alder, and sounds much different. I
also have a '63 Jaguar that I haven't recorded with yet, and I just finished
putting together a Jaguar with an original '62 neck and a US prototype
Jaguar body. The acoustic sound of that old neck is amazing! I guess it's
the Easter Hardrock Maple, and Brazilian Rosewood combination.
-dave
supertwangreverb <> wrote:Dave,
I thought your Jag was a Us reissue. Is this the one you use to
record?
-- In , dave wronski
wrote:
> A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with
regards to taking advantage of the International Division of Labor.
Any lawers out there?
>
> The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit
that holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel
on the US models. The materials and engineering involved with the US
Fender Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High
HC" material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in
the early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able
to figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in those
old pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
>
> The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US guitars
are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar
paint facility.
>
> Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners of
today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old shapes
for a small minority, is such a passion.
> My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has a
great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get in
the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars are
a little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster one-
offs, which, a few I've tried.
> I guess that's enough rambling!
> -dave
>
>
> Gavin Ehringer wrote:This is not an attack on
Richard, just my own musings!
>
> ------
>
> I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican
versus
> vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think there
is
> a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
> assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and the
> vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
>
> Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better
guitars
> in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
> better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
>
> I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American Fat
> Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better
(granted,
> the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But
as
> far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
> impossible to say that one was better than another.
>
> Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are
simply
> labor - and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious
than
> the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
>
> Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the
same
> quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to
be),
> but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from
the
> original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when
quality
> control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards
of
> today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his
floor
> workers cut corners when need-be - and it shows up in a lot of
vintage
> guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a
custom
> color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint
job,
> they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
> Which, to me, made perfect sense).
>
> The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were some
SD
> pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle barrels
and
> heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for guitar
+
> $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it
seems
> these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it.
Besides,
> they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement prices.
>
> Too much time on my hands,
>
> Gavin
>
>
> > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > there is always going to be a question of value...
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
> Dave, your use of the MIJ Jaguar on "Into the Blue Sparkle" should
> convince even the weary that with slight mods the MIJ/CIJ are good
> guitars for both gigging and recording. Thanks for the gear reply.
>
> Bill
Then again, Dave W could play a comb and tissue paper and sound better than
most guitarists...
BN
Hi Richard, I guess the white Jag dings easy. I think the Basswood is softer
than Alder, but the Polyester paint provides a little bit more protection. My
guitar looks pretty good considering where it's been. The worst wear caused by
my slamming the guitar on the stage a few times when I thought the Rock-Star-
Ending was going on a little too long one night in Europe with J&NRs.
I use a plate with a 3-way Tele-style blade switch in place of the three little
slide switches. I use a dice on the end of the trem bar. This enables me to hold
the pick, trem bar, and make changes with the switch without dropping any notes.
The pick guard is from WD. I want someone to make a pickguard with the correct
big bevel, but WD won't, so I gotta find someone who will. I use the grounding
plates as use in the original, and US reissues in all the cavitys. You can make
your own, no problem. Just be sure everything is grounded. I think I also
painted the cavities with grounding paint. Make sure that is well grounded,
also. I don't have a tone control hooked up because it really degraded the
sound. In my '63 all original Jag, I like the tone control. It probably has
something to do with the old style capacitor sounding better. I also use a 250K
pot in the white MIJ Jag instead of the 1MEG that is stock in all Jags. The 1MEG
vol pot has more treble when all the way up, and less when turned down. I like a
uniform response because I use the vol pot at every possible position, changing
the level constantly. I use cloth wire and a Switchcraft jack.
Hope this helped,
-dave
Richard <> wrote:
--- dave wronski wrote:
> My white Jaguar is a MIJ, 1996 model. The body is
> Basswood
Dave, do you have a problem with the basswood body
dinging very easily? I have a CIJ Vista series
Jagmaster which is my favorite guitar, but every
little bump and gouge leaves a mark, whereas the alder
body on my Cyclone has taken several bumps and shows
none of them. Also, what other hardware did you
replace on your Jag (wires, switches, etc) and what
kind of pickguard did you put on it?
Richard
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hey Marty, I used the '58 Strat for the entire first Slacktone CD
{Warning:Reverb rInstarmentals}, except for "Goldfinger", which is my
1957 Strat. I used to play my '58 at Slacktone gigs, but I bagan
using a 91? Mary Kay Strat, and then the white Jaguar. I also used
the white MIJ Jag for all the "Slim Jims" commercials we did. That
was the stock Japan pickups through two '60s Marshall amps. I really
liked how crazy those pickups sounded, not "Classic Rock" at all! I
can't subject those old guitars to the gallons of sweat, and risk. I
have used them a lot in the past, but the last few years I've backed
off from taking them out.
That Mosrite wasn't mine, it was John's. It had the most powerful
pickups I have ever used! That amp I used on "Live at the Whiskey"
was a rental, and by the end of that gig was about to blow up. Listen
to how it sounds at the end, compared with the beginning.
I'll see if I can figure out how to post pics of the '58,'57 Strats,
and my '63 Jaguar.
-dave
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Hey Dave,
>
> I'm drooling over the mention of a '58 strat. I don't beleive I've
seen you
> play that one at any Slacktone gigs.
> Now the big question:
> What happened to your Mosrite that I saw you playin' in the
early '80's with
> J&TN? What did you think of that guitar?
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave wronski" <stickmandw@y...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts,
America
> First! Blah, blah...
>
>
> My white Jaguar is a MIJ, 1996 model. The body is Basswood, the
pickups are
> Custom Prototypes made by Fred Stewart. The bridge is US made, and
it has
> brass saddles. The tailpiece is US made, and has been modified with
three
> flat top screws so the strings don't rub with the lower angle
caused by the
> Buzzstop. I re-fretted it twice, and also had to drill the key
holes a
> little bit larger so I could install the Kluson copies that the US
guitars
> use. The Japan guitars use "Ping" brand keys which are smaller and
cheaper.
> I used this guitar on almost all of "Into the Blue Sparkle", except
for
> "Daytona Mona" which is my '58 Strat, and "South Run" which is a US
re-issue
> Jazzmaster.
> My purple metal flake Jag is CIJ. It's alder, and sounds much
different. I
> also have a '63 Jaguar that I haven't recorded with yet, and I just
finished
> putting together a Jaguar with an original '62 neck and a US
prototype
> Jaguar body. The acoustic sound of that old neck is amazing! I
guess it's
> the Easter Hardrock Maple, and Brazilian Rosewood combination.
> -dave
>
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:Dave,
>
> I thought your Jag was a Us reissue. Is this the one you use to
> record?
>
>
> -- In , dave wronski
> wrote:
> > A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with
> regards to taking advantage of the International Division of Labor.
> Any lawers out there?
> >
> > The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit
> that holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel
> on the US models. The materials and engineering involved with the US
> Fender Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High
> HC" material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in
> the early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able
> to figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in those
> old pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
> >
> > The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US
guitars
> are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
> lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar
> paint facility.
> >
> > Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
> Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
> Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
> professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners of
> today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old shapes
> for a small minority, is such a passion.
> > My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has
a
> great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
> basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get in
> the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars are
> a little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
> because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
> Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster one-
> offs, which, a few I've tried.
> > I guess that's enough rambling!
> > -dave
> >
> >
> > Gavin Ehringer wrote:This is not an attack on
> Richard, just my own musings!
> >
> > ------
> >
> > I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican
> versus
> > vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think
there
> is
> > a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
> > assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and
the
> > vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
> >
> > Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better
> guitars
> > in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
> > better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
> >
> > I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American
Fat
> > Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better
> (granted,
> > the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But
> as
> > far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
> > impossible to say that one was better than another.
> >
> > Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are
> simply
> > labor - and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious
> than
> > the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
> >
> > Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the
> same
> > quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to
> be),
> > but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from
> the
> > original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when
> quality
> > control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards
> of
> > today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his
> floor
> > workers cut corners when need-be - and it shows up in a lot of
> vintage
> > guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a
> custom
> > color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint
> job,
> > they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
> > Which, to me, made perfect sense).
> >
> > The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were
some
> SD
> > pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle
barrels
> and
> > heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for
guitar
> +
> > $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it
> seems
> > these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it.
> Besides,
> > they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement
prices.
> >
> > Too much time on my hands,
> >
> > Gavin
> >
> >
> > > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > > there is always going to be a question of value...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Now you're killing me, Dave,
To hear that you also have a '57 Strat! I can understand you not takin' 'em
anywhere with the value just skyrocketing. Yeah, please post photos.
I was in the audience for that awesome "Live at the Whiskey" show with the
Blasters. I wouldn't recall details of the amp gettin' weak, but that rhythm
Mosrite sound was distorted.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: stickmandw
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:08 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts, America First!
Blah, blah...
Hey Marty, I used the '58 Strat for the entire first Slacktone CD
{Warning:Reverb rInstarmentals}, except for "Goldfinger", which is my
1957 Strat. I used to play my '58 at Slacktone gigs, but I bagan
using a 91? Mary Kay Strat, and then the white Jaguar. I also used
the white MIJ Jag for all the "Slim Jims" commercials we did. That
was the stock Japan pickups through two '60s Marshall amps. I really
liked how crazy those pickups sounded, not "Classic Rock" at all! I
can't subject those old guitars to the gallons of sweat, and risk. I
have used them a lot in the past, but the last few years I've backed
off from taking them out.
That Mosrite wasn't mine, it was John's. It had the most powerful
pickups I have ever used! That amp I used on "Live at the Whiskey"
was a rental, and by the end of that gig was about to blow up. Listen
to how it sounds at the end, compared with the beginning.
I'll see if I can figure out how to post pics of the '58,'57 Strats,
and my '63 Jaguar.
-dave
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Hey Dave,
>
> I'm drooling over the mention of a '58 strat. I don't beleive I've
seen you
> play that one at any Slacktone gigs.
> Now the big question:
> What happened to your Mosrite that I saw you playin' in the
early '80's with
> J&TN? What did you think of that guitar?
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave wronski" <stickmandw@y...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts,
America
> First! Blah, blah...
>
>
> My white Jaguar is a MIJ, 1996 model. The body is Basswood, the
pickups are
> Custom Prototypes made by Fred Stewart. The bridge is US made, and
it has
> brass saddles. The tailpiece is US made, and has been modified with
three
> flat top screws so the strings don't rub with the lower angle
caused by the
> Buzzstop. I re-fretted it twice, and also had to drill the key
holes a
> little bit larger so I could install the Kluson copies that the US
guitars
> use. The Japan guitars use "Ping" brand keys which are smaller and
cheaper.
> I used this guitar on almost all of "Into the Blue Sparkle", except
for
> "Daytona Mona" which is my '58 Strat, and "South Run" which is a US
re-issue
> Jazzmaster.
> My purple metal flake Jag is CIJ. It's alder, and sounds much
different. I
> also have a '63 Jaguar that I haven't recorded with yet, and I just
finished
> putting together a Jaguar with an original '62 neck and a US
prototype
> Jaguar body. The acoustic sound of that old neck is amazing! I
guess it's
> the Easter Hardrock Maple, and Brazilian Rosewood combination.
> -dave
>
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:Dave,
>
> I thought your Jag was a Us reissue. Is this the one you use to
> record?
>
>
> -- In , dave wronski
> wrote:
> > A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with
> regards to taking advantage of the International Division of Labor.
> Any lawers out there?
> >
> > The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit
> that holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel
> on the US models. The materials and engineering involved with the US
> Fender Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High
> HC" material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in
> the early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able
> to figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in those
> old pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
> >
> > The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US
guitars
> are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
> lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar
> paint facility.
> >
> > Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
> Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
> Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
> professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners of
> today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old shapes
> for a small minority, is such a passion.
> > My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has
a
> great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
> basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get in
> the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars are
> a little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
> because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
> Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster one-
> offs, which, a few I've tried.
> > I guess that's enough rambling!
> > -dave
> >
> >
> > Gavin Ehringer wrote:This is not an attack on
> Richard, just my own musings!
> >
> > ------
> >
> > I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican
> versus
> > vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think
there
> is
> > a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
> > assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and
the
> > vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
> >
> > Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better
> guitars
> > in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
> > better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
> >
> > I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American
Fat
> > Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better
> (granted,
> > the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But
> as
> > far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
> > impossible to say that one was better than another.
> >
> > Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are
> simply
> > labor - and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious
> than
> > the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
> >
> > Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the
> same
> > quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to
> be),
> > but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from
> the
> > original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when
> quality
> > control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards
> of
> > today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his
> floor
> > workers cut corners when need-be - and it shows up in a lot of
> vintage
> > guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a
> custom
> > color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint
> job,
> > they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
> > Which, to me, made perfect sense).
> >
> > The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were
some
> SD
> > pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle
barrels
> and
> > heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for
guitar
> +
> > $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it
> seems
> > these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it.
> Besides,
> > they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement
prices.
> >
> > Too much time on my hands,
> >
> > Gavin
> >
> >
> > > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > > there is always going to be a question of value...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gavin Ehringer <> wrote:
And as to paint, I am sure the nitrocellose laquer is a desireable
finish ? extremely thin, hard, quick drying, beautiful in its luster
and depth, and perhaps with sonic properties that make it superior to
the poly-wrapping that is used in other finishes. Props to Fender
America for bringing it back.
Gavin
Having had the pleasure(?) of stripping a number of Fenders, I did find that the
Japanese poly was thinner than their non-nitro US and MIM counterparts. Just my
2 cents.
--- In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> A few thoughts: MIJ vs. CIJ may involve may more wiggle room with
regards to taking advantage of the International Division of Labor.
Any lawers out there?
>
> The US Jags & Jazzmasters have superior metal parts. The collit that
holds the trem bar is brass on the imports, and hardened steel on the
US models. The materials and engineering involved with the US Fender
Jag and Jazzmaster are more costly. The magnets are a "High HC"
material that was used by Fender for only a couple of years in the
early 60s. For Bill Turner {Fender pickup designer} to be able to
figure out the reason why he heard a difference in sound in those old
pickups would require Fender to spend some ca$h.
>
> The paint used on the imports is polyester {plastic} The US guitars
are eurathane, or Nitro laquer, depending on the model. Shooting
lacquer in California required Fender to build a 5.5 million dollar
paint facility.
>
> Old guitars can sound better because of superior woods like
Brazilian Rosewood fret boards that are not legally available now.
Neck shapes in the old days, in my opinion, had to satisfy a
professional player, not so much the less critical, casual owners of
today. That might be the reason why trying to copy those old shapes
for a small minority, is such a passion.
> My white MIJ Jag with it's polyester paint, and basswood body has a
great neck, which is why I like all the Japan Fenders so much. The
basswood on the Japan guitars is a different variety than we get in
the states, as I was told by the head of Fender R&D. US guitars are a
little too wide for my thumb-over big stretches. Too bad for me
because everything else is so right. Of course there is always the
Custom Shop, which has been making some great Jag and JMaster
one-offs, which, a few I've tried.
> I guess that's enough rambling!
> -dave
>
>
> Gavin Ehringer <gavinehringer@e...> wrote:This is not an attack on
Richard, just my own musings!
>
> ------
>
> I am always amused about the US versus Japanese versus Mexican versus
> vintage controversies and opinions regarding Fenders. I think there is
> a certain amount of nationalistic pride and xenophobia when people
> assert that the standard-production U.S. guitars are better and the
> vintage guitars are best. And a certain amount of nostalgia too.
>
> Isn't it a bit simplistic to think that Americans made better guitars
> in the 1950s & 60s than they do today, and also believe they make
> better guitars now than do the workers in Mexico, Japan and Korea?
>
> I've owned a Mexican '50s Strat, a '96 Jap Jag, and an American Fat
> Strat. I loved the tone and feel of the imports much better (granted,
> the Fat Strat didn't really suit surf/rockabilly roots music). But as
> far as set-up, finish, hardware, and overall quality, it would be
> impossible to say that one was better than another.
>
> Most of the cost differences among imports versus US made are simply
> labor ? and I don't think US workers are any more conscientious than
> the Japanese. That's why I drive a Honda.
>
> Certainly, these low-budget Jags and Jazzmasters won't be of the same
> quality as the American '62 Reissues (nor were they intended to be),
> but I am confident they aren't much worse than or different from the
> original Fender Jags and Jazzes, which were made at a time when quality
> control and manufacturing technology weren't at the high standards of
> today. I know Leo ran a tight ship, but I also know he and his floor
> workers cut corners when need-be ? and it shows up in a lot of vintage
> guitars. (Ever seen a sunburst pattern bleeding through under a custom
> color? That's 'cause rather than strip a botched sunburst paint job,
> they'd just shoot a custom color over it and add $5 to the price!
> Which, to me, made perfect sense).
>
> The only mods I made to my Jap Jaguar to get "that sound" were some SD
> pickups that were more to my liking, plus new bridge saddle barrels and
> heavier gage strings to solve a mild buzzing. Total cost for guitar +
> $425 used, plus $50 for pups, $25 for saddles = $500). To me, it seems
> these inexpensive Jags and Jazzmasters might just be worth it. Besides,
> they'll always hold a resale close to these bargain-basement prices.
>
> Too much time on my hands,
>
> Gavin
>
>
> > At $399.99 the Japanese JM seems like a killer deal,
> > hands-down, but whenever you a buy a cheaper guitar
> > there is always going to be a question of value...
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
---------------------------------
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I posted three pics in the photos section
-d
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Now you're killing me, Dave,
> To hear that you also have a '57 Strat! I can understand you not
takin' 'em anywhere with the value just skyrocketing. Yeah, please
post photos.
>
> I was in the audience for that awesome "Live at the Whiskey" show
with the Blasters. I wouldn't recall details of the amp gettin' weak,
but that rhythm Mosrite sound was distorted.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stickmandw
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:08 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts,
America First! Blah, blah...
>
>
> removed]
Very nice, Dave. I like the sunburst '57 best. Is the dark one a refinish or an
original custom color?
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: stickmandw
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:41 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts, America First!
Blah, blah...
I posted three pics in the photos section
-d
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Now you're killing me, Dave,
> To hear that you also have a '57 Strat! I can understand you not
takin' 'em anywhere with the value just skyrocketing. Yeah, please
post photos.
>
> I was in the audience for that awesome "Live at the Whiskey" show
with the Blasters. I wouldn't recall details of the amp gettin' weak,
but that rhythm Mosrite sound was distorted.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stickmandw
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:08 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts,
America First! Blah, blah...
>
>
> removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The black '58 Strat's body has been refinished. A friend of mine
bought it from Norm's Rare Guitars, and it had been painted blue with
a paint brush.
-dave
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Very nice, Dave. I like the sunburst '57 best. Is the dark one a
refinish or an original custom color?
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stickmandw
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:41 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Cheapo Jags--upgrading parts,
America First! Blah, blah...
>
>
> I posted three pics in the photos section
> -d
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
