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Hey out there,
I just got a new Fender Cyber-Twin amp, and I'm really jazzed about
using it with my Strat. I used to use a DigiTech RP300 pedal and a
clean Marshall 8080V amp, and that gave me the sickest most incredible
surf tone, even with a cheapo Mexi Strat. Believe me, everyone was
asking me my secret, but I'd just point to the pedal. I even had a
guy with a $5000 custom rig calling my little setup the "Holy Grail",
honest.
My main reason for switching is that my 8080V is dying and I'm not up
for getting it serviced, plus I'd heard many good things about the
Cyber-Twin and I got it at an incredible price.
Now, I'm trying to dial in this Cyber-Twin and I'm finding out that
the tubes have a mind of their own. While the reverbs available are
incredible, it's dialing in of the uneffected base tone that is really
difficult. There is a midrange "quack" that I can't get rid of, and
there's a definite shortage of bite or presence. I used it recently
at rehearsal, and the Cyber just doesn't cut through easily on tone
merits alone, I have to crank the volume to painful levels to
compensate. Even then, it's muddy and indistinct. I even tried
Fender's "Hang 10" surf sound preset, but that was really muddy too.
It just seems to me that the DigiTech RP300, in trying to emulate
tubes, inadvertently created some really cool tonal element and feel
that tube amps can't compete with. While the tube element has a very
nice organic feel to it, it lacks the immediacy and consistency of the
RP300.
Does anyone have a usable patch for the Cyber-Twin that I can try?
Else, I'll be forced to run the Cyber dry and use my RP300.
Hi,
He, A Marshall 8080 with some sort of reverb pedal sounds very good. Our
rythem guitar player uses a 8080 with a Holy grail and a MIM strat. It's
hard to nail his tone down....
He also hase a Fender Pro-twin reverb, but not the same Mojo with that
one...
Indeed, hard to believe such a cheap set up does the surf trick....
Jerry S.
-----Original Message-----
From: red_thundr [mailto:]
Sent: zondag 21 december 2003 18:17
To:
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Help with Cyber-Twin!!!
Hey out there,
I just got a new Fender Cyber-Twin amp, and I'm really jazzed about
using it with my Strat. I used to use a DigiTech RP300 pedal and a
clean Marshall 8080V amp, and that gave me the sickest most incredible
surf tone, even with a cheapo Mexi Strat. Believe me, everyone was
asking me my secret, but I'd just point to the pedal. I even had a guy
with a $5000 custom rig calling my little setup the "Holy Grail",
honest.
My main reason for switching is that my 8080V is dying and I'm not up
for getting it serviced, plus I'd heard many good things about the
Cyber-Twin and I got it at an incredible price.
Now, I'm trying to dial in this Cyber-Twin and I'm finding out that the
tubes have a mind of their own. While the reverbs available are
incredible, it's dialing in of the uneffected base tone that is really
difficult. There is a midrange "quack" that I can't get rid of, and
there's a definite shortage of bite or presence. I used it recently at
rehearsal, and the Cyber just doesn't cut through easily on tone merits
alone, I have to crank the volume to painful levels to compensate. Even
then, it's muddy and indistinct. I even tried Fender's "Hang 10" surf
sound preset, but that was really muddy too.
It just seems to me that the DigiTech RP300, in trying to emulate tubes,
inadvertently created some really cool tonal element and feel that tube
amps can't compete with. While the tube element has a very nice organic
feel to it, it lacks the immediacy and consistency of the RP300.
Does anyone have a usable patch for the Cyber-Twin that I can try?
Else, I'll be forced to run the Cyber dry and use my RP300.
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I've got a Cyber-Twin, and have tweaked a few workable surfy patches
for it. However, I have not been really pleased with the CT reverb
effects, and use an outboard tank with it.
If you think that your CT is missing a bit of "bite", you may want
to consider re-tubing it with some new pre-amp tubes (the only tubes
it has). There has been a lot of discussion about that on the
Fender Discussion Page (www.fenderforum.com); I haven't done this
yet, but some people feel that improves the CT tone (provided good
tubes are used).
I'll send you a note off-list and give you some of the patch
settings I'm happy with - good luck!
-Dick
--- In , "red_thundr" <red_thundr@y...>
wrote:
> Hey out there,
>
> I just got a new Fender Cyber-Twin amp, and I'm really jazzed about
> using it with my Strat. I used to use a DigiTech RP300 pedal and a
> clean Marshall 8080V amp, and that gave me the sickest most
incredible
> surf tone, even with a cheapo Mexi Strat. Believe me, everyone was
> asking me my secret, but I'd just point to the pedal. I even had a
> guy with a $5000 custom rig calling my little setup the "Holy
Grail",
> honest.
>
> My main reason for switching is that my 8080V is dying and I'm not
up
> for getting it serviced, plus I'd heard many good things about the
> Cyber-Twin and I got it at an incredible price.
>
> Now, I'm trying to dial in this Cyber-Twin and I'm finding out that
> the tubes have a mind of their own. While the reverbs available
are
> incredible, it's dialing in of the uneffected base tone that is
really
> difficult. There is a midrange "quack" that I can't get rid of, and
> there's a definite shortage of bite or presence. I used it
recently
> at rehearsal, and the Cyber just doesn't cut through easily on tone
> merits alone, I have to crank the volume to painful levels to
> compensate. Even then, it's muddy and indistinct. I even tried
> Fender's "Hang 10" surf sound preset, but that was really muddy
too.
>
> It just seems to me that the DigiTech RP300, in trying to emulate
> tubes, inadvertently created some really cool tonal element and
feel
> that tube amps can't compete with. While the tube element has a
very
> nice organic feel to it, it lacks the immediacy and consistency of
the
> RP300.
>
> Does anyone have a usable patch for the Cyber-Twin that I can try?
> Else, I'll be forced to run the Cyber dry and use my RP300.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:16:49 -0000 "red_thundr" <>
writes:
>SNIP<
> My main reason for switching is that my 8080V is dying ...
Uh, whatja goin' to do with that poor ol' 8080V? ;>)
Bill in VA.
Red,
Try swaping those Groove Tubes for a good set of Svetlana 12AX7's. I've
heard rave and poor reviews of the CT amp. Some sound great, some
complain of the same poor sound like yours . If it still doesn't sound
good after a good tube swap, off load it and fix your Marshall.
Chris
red_thundr wrote:
>
> Hey out there,
>
> I just got a new Fender Cyber-Twin amp, and I'm really jazzed about
> using it with my Strat. I used to use a DigiTech RP300 pedal and a
> clean Marshall 8080V amp, and that gave me the sickest most incredible
> surf tone, even with a cheapo Mexi Strat. Believe me, everyone was
> asking me my secret, but I'd just point to the pedal. I even had a
> guy with a $5000 custom rig calling my little setup the "Holy Grail",
> honest.
>
> My main reason for switching is that my 8080V is dying and I'm not up
> for getting it serviced, plus I'd heard many good things about the
> Cyber-Twin and I got it at an incredible price.
>
> Now, I'm trying to dial in this Cyber-Twin and I'm finding out that
> the tubes have a mind of their own. While the reverbs available are
> incredible, it's dialing in of the uneffected base tone that is really
> difficult. There is a midrange "quack" that I can't get rid of, and
> there's a definite shortage of bite or presence. I used it recently
> at rehearsal, and the Cyber just doesn't cut through easily on tone
> merits alone, I have to crank the volume to painful levels to
> compensate. Even then, it's muddy and indistinct. I even tried
> Fender's "Hang 10" surf sound preset, but that was really muddy too.
>
> It just seems to me that the DigiTech RP300, in trying to emulate
> tubes, inadvertently created some really cool tonal element and feel
> that tube amps can't compete with. While the tube element has a very
> nice organic feel to it, it lacks the immediacy and consistency of the
> RP300.
>
> Does anyone have a usable patch for the Cyber-Twin that I can try?
> Else, I'll be forced to run the Cyber dry and use my RP300.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>
I forgot to mention this in my previous post on the CT - if you
haven't checked out the Patch Wizard site (www.patchwizard.com), do
it. It has a really nice CT interface and patch library that lets
you change setting via the MIDI port - very cool! This site also
has goodies for all of you POD 6 users out there, too!
-Dick
--- In , Christopher Darlington
<chris.darlington@s...> wrote:
> Red,
>
> Try swaping those Groove Tubes for a good set of Svetlana
12AX7's. I've
> heard rave and poor reviews of the CT amp. Some sound great, some
> complain of the same poor sound like yours . If it still doesn't
sound
> good after a good tube swap, off load it and fix your Marshall.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> red_thundr wrote:
> >
> > Hey out there,
> >
> > I just got a new Fender Cyber-Twin amp, and I'm really jazzed
about
> > using it with my Strat. I used to use a DigiTech RP300 pedal
and a
> > clean Marshall 8080V amp, and that gave me the sickest most
incredible
> > surf tone, even with a cheapo Mexi Strat. Believe me, everyone
was
> > asking me my secret, but I'd just point to the pedal. I even
had a
> > guy with a $5000 custom rig calling my little setup the "Holy
Grail",
> > honest.
> >
> > My main reason for switching is that my 8080V is dying and I'm
not up
> > for getting it serviced, plus I'd heard many good things about
the
> > Cyber-Twin and I got it at an incredible price.
> >
> > Now, I'm trying to dial in this Cyber-Twin and I'm finding out
that
> > the tubes have a mind of their own. While the reverbs available
are
> > incredible, it's dialing in of the uneffected base tone that is
really
> > difficult. There is a midrange "quack" that I can't get rid of,
and
> > there's a definite shortage of bite or presence. I used it
recently
> > at rehearsal, and the Cyber just doesn't cut through easily on
tone
> > merits alone, I have to crank the volume to painful levels to
> > compensate. Even then, it's muddy and indistinct. I even tried
> > Fender's "Hang 10" surf sound preset, but that was really muddy
too.
> >
> > It just seems to me that the DigiTech RP300, in trying to emulate
> > tubes, inadvertently created some really cool tonal element and
feel
> > that tube amps can't compete with. While the tube element has a
very
> > nice organic feel to it, it lacks the immediacy and consistency
of the
> > RP300.
> >
> > Does anyone have a usable patch for the Cyber-Twin that I can
try?
> > Else, I'll be forced to run the Cyber dry and use my RP300.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> > Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >
Woops, Sorry Dick,
I didn't see that you already suggested this.
Chris
Christopher Darlington wrote:
>
> Red,
>
> Try swaping those Groove Tubes for a good set of Svetlana 12AX7's. I've
> heard rave and poor reviews of the CT amp. Some sound great, some
> complain of the same poor sound like yours . If it still doesn't sound
> good after a good tube swap, off load it and fix your Marshall.
>
> Chris
>
> red_thundr wrote:
> >
> > Hey out there,
> >
> > I just got a new Fender Cyber-Twin amp, and I'm really jazzed about
> > using it with my Strat. I used to use a DigiTech RP300 pedal and a
> > clean Marshall 8080V amp, and that gave me the sickest most incredible
> > surf tone, even with a cheapo Mexi Strat. Believe me, everyone was
> > asking me my secret, but I'd just point to the pedal. I even had a
> > guy with a $5000 custom rig calling my little setup the "Holy Grail",
> > honest.
> >
> > My main reason for switching is that my 8080V is dying and I'm not up
> > for getting it serviced, plus I'd heard many good things about the
> > Cyber-Twin and I got it at an incredible price.
> >
> > Now, I'm trying to dial in this Cyber-Twin and I'm finding out that
> > the tubes have a mind of their own. While the reverbs available are
> > incredible, it's dialing in of the uneffected base tone that is really
> > difficult. There is a midrange "quack" that I can't get rid of, and
> > there's a definite shortage of bite or presence. I used it recently
> > at rehearsal, and the Cyber just doesn't cut through easily on tone
> > merits alone, I have to crank the volume to painful levels to
> > compensate. Even then, it's muddy and indistinct. I even tried
> > Fender's "Hang 10" surf sound preset, but that was really muddy too.
> >
> > It just seems to me that the DigiTech RP300, in trying to emulate
> > tubes, inadvertently created some really cool tonal element and feel
> > that tube amps can't compete with. While the tube element has a very
> > nice organic feel to it, it lacks the immediacy and consistency of the
> > RP300.
> >
> > Does anyone have a usable patch for the Cyber-Twin that I can try?
> > Else, I'll be forced to run the Cyber dry and use my RP300.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > .
> > Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>
Ugh... tubes.
Are 12AX7s typically drop-in replacements? Or am I going to have to
whip out my voltmeter and do some kind of silly bias adjustment to
compensate for slight manufacturing variance? I also understasnd that
the bias adjustment can drift over time due to shock and vibration.
And what are the best brands? Someone told me "Electro-Harmonix",
someone else said "Svetlana", and yet another person said that Groove
Tubes has a whole variety of 12AX7s to choose from, and Fender only
uses one particular type. My biggest complaint is the lack of
definition and clarity. Will different tubes fix the "honk" I am
getting?
I'm definitely going to try Dick's Cyber patches and see what kind of
improvement I get. If it's not enough, I'll look into swapping the
tubes out. Anybody got the lowdown on which 12AX7 tubes are best for
a surf tone?
Thanks!
--- In , Christopher Darlington
<chris.darlington@s...> wrote:
> Red,
>
> Try swaping those Groove Tubes for a good set of Svetlana 12AX7's.
I've
> heard rave and poor reviews of the CT amp. Some sound great, some
> complain of the same poor sound like yours . If it still doesn't
sound
> good after a good tube swap, off load it and fix your Marshall.
>
> Chris
>
Well, I bought a Blues Junior to goof around with and it's one of the
best new Fender tube amps, IMHO. On the Fender Discussion Pages, BillM
(turns out to be Bill Machrone - former editor and current columnist
for PC Magazine) did a bunch of cool mods to it and on one page he
talks about the 12xx7 variants and how there IS a difference. I know
it's not an exact CT page but it'll show you how different pre-amp
tubes shape sound.
You might want to check out the Fender Discussion Pages. There are alot
of good tips there:
And BTW, the 12xx7's are pre-amp tubes. Only power tubes need to be
biased.
Good luck.
Phil
On Sunday, December 21, 2003, at 11:43 PM, red_thundr wrote:
> Ugh... tubes.
>
> Are 12AX7s typically drop-in replacements? Or am I going to have to
> whip out my voltmeter and do some kind of silly bias adjustment to
> compensate for slight manufacturing variance? I also understasnd that
> the bias adjustment can drift over time due to shock and vibration.
>
> And what are the best brands? Someone told me "Electro-Harmonix",
> someone else said "Svetlana", and yet another person said that Groove
> Tubes has a whole variety of 12AX7s to choose from, and Fender only
> uses one particular type. My biggest complaint is the lack of
> definition and clarity. Will different tubes fix the "honk" I am
> getting?
>
> I'm definitely going to try Dick's Cyber patches and see what kind of
> improvement I get. If it's not enough, I'll look into swapping the
> tubes out. Anybody got the lowdown on which 12AX7 tubes are best for
> a surf tone?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --- In , Christopher Darlington
> <chris.darlington@s...> wrote:
>> Red,
>>
>> Try swaping those Groove Tubes for a good set of Svetlana 12AX7's.
> I've
>> heard rave and poor reviews of the CT amp. Some sound great, some
>> complain of the same poor sound like yours . If it still doesn't
> sound
>> good after a good tube swap, off load it and fix your Marshall.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>
>
>
Hey all,
Well, what I'm trying to recapture is the definition. It's not that
the tone is horrible on the Cyber, it's actually quite good.
Here is what I am wanting to recapture with the Cyber:
This is a Mexi Strat into an RP300 (with my own custom patch), into a
dry Marshall 8080V with all the knobs at 12:00. This is just a real
rough rehearsal recording, but I think it illustrates better than I
can explain in words. I want that clarity and sustain back,
especially on the low/open strings. Right now, I'm finding too much
quack and not enough twang.
Any ideas are much appreciated!
Thanks!
--- In , Phil Kucer <philx@m...> wrote:
> Well, I bought a Blues Junior to goof around with and it's one of the
> best new Fender tube amps, IMHO. On the Fender Discussion Pages, BillM
> (turns out to be Bill Machrone - former editor and current columnist
> for PC Magazine) did a bunch of cool mods to it and on one page he
> talks about the 12xx7 variants and how there IS a difference. I know
> it's not an exact CT page but it'll show you how different pre-amp
> tubes shape sound.
>
>
>
> You might want to check out the Fender Discussion Pages. There are alot
> of good tips there:
>
>
>
> And BTW, the 12xx7's are pre-amp tubes. Only power tubes need to be
> biased.
>
> Good luck.
> Phil
>
>
>
> On Sunday, December 21, 2003, at 11:43 PM, red_thundr wrote:
>
> > Ugh... tubes.
> >
> > Are 12AX7s typically drop-in replacements? Or am I going to have to
> > whip out my voltmeter and do some kind of silly bias adjustment to
> > compensate for slight manufacturing variance? I also understasnd that
> > the bias adjustment can drift over time due to shock and vibration.
> >
> > And what are the best brands? Someone told me "Electro-Harmonix",
> > someone else said "Svetlana", and yet another person said that Groove
> > Tubes has a whole variety of 12AX7s to choose from, and Fender only
> > uses one particular type. My biggest complaint is the lack of
> > definition and clarity. Will different tubes fix the "honk" I am
> > getting?
> >
> > I'm definitely going to try Dick's Cyber patches and see what kind of
> > improvement I get. If it's not enough, I'll look into swapping the
> > tubes out. Anybody got the lowdown on which 12AX7 tubes are best for
> > a surf tone?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > --- In , Christopher Darlington
> > <chris.darlington@s...> wrote:
> >> Red,
> >>
> >> Try swaping those Groove Tubes for a good set of Svetlana 12AX7's.
> > I've
> >> heard rave and poor reviews of the CT amp. Some sound great, some
> >> complain of the same poor sound like yours . If it still doesn't
> > sound
> >> good after a good tube swap, off load it and fix your Marshall.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> > Visit for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >
> >
> >
Just going to throw out a plug for an amp-head friend
of mine over on the left coast.
His name is Will Roemermann and his e-mail is.
He's big into electronics and amps.
Ping him and he'll try to help. (I asked his permission
before presenting this to the list)
Ask him if that earthquake brings a whole new meaning
of 'surf & turf' to him today! ;^)
Bill in VA
