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Hi,
I was wondering if a drum kit in general needs tuning?
I know it's perhaps a stupid question, but to be frank, I know zip about
drum kits.
So needs a kit tuning? And if so how does it need to be tuned? And how
does it proceed?
I would like to know since we are planning to do some recording early
next year and I would like the sound of the drum kit to be a good as it
gets....
And another question regarding playing outdoors.
We (The Ohmmen) are asked to play at a Chrismas fair (you know a
gathering of people outdoors, glu-wein und schnapps and a lot of fun)
But the temperature is not really high that time of year. We will be
performing on an open truck with a roof on it. (luckily they won't drive
us arround ;-) We did some outdoor playing before, but mostly in the
Summer and in a T-shirt....I won't be doing that on December the 27th.
But how do we commence gear wise? Do we need to take the gear out in
time (I don't want to end up tunning guitars after every song...)
We really would like to do this as there are not that many bands that
get to play at a Christmas fair and it would be nice to put Surf music
in a Santa Jacket...I'm thinking three Blind Christmas Mice here etc....
Thanks for all your comments as they are greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Jerry S. "The Ohmmen"
Jerry -
The simple answer to your question is "yes," in general, a drumset should be
tuned to sound its best, but how it is tuned, and how it is played are
largely up to the drummer that has to play them. Its not like a guitar or
bass that has to be "in tune" to not to sound off with the other
instruments. The sound of a drumset is a product of many factors including
the shell construction, type (and condition) of the heads, tightness of the
heads, muffling (or lack thereof) and of course the way the drummer plays
(heavy bashing, or light playing). Also, whether or not the kit will be
miked should influence the tuning - if you're not miking the drums, you
really want them to project and be heard with the amps - you can always turn
up the amp, but its difficult to turn up the sound of the drums, especially
in a big room, and certainly outside. Basically, you don't want dead
sounding drums if you're outside (at least I wouldn't).
As far as playing outside in the cold, the temperature shouldn't affect the
drums too much - these days the heads are plastic and humidity, etc. doesn't
alter the sound too much. Back in the days of calfskin heads, temp changes
would affect the sound of the drums. If its really cold, you might be
concerned about the cymbals being more prone to cracking, but overall, an
hour or two shouldn't do too much damage to the kit.
I would be more concerned about the effects of the weather on the guitars
and amps. I'm sure temp changes affect the tuning of the strings,and cold
temperatures probably aren't the best thing for vintage electronics, but
that's beyond my area of pseudo-expertise.
yfj
>From: "Jerry" <>
>Reply-To:
>To: <>
>Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding drums...
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:54:52 +0100
>
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Hi Jim,
Thanks a lot for your most intersting reply.
I'll have a look at the drumset tommorow.
At the moment it sounds a bit dead to my taste, so I guess a bit of
tuning won't hurt.
And if someone else on this list has some input regarding playing
outdoors (in cold(er) weather) with a mix of vintage an new equipment,
(SF Bandmaster/MIJ Jag/ '63 Burns Jazzbass on a new Ampeg cabinet on a H
and K tube bassamp and a MIM strat on a pro tube twin)
Your input or expertise would be most welcome
Thanks a lot,
Jerry S. from Belgium
-----Original Message-----
From: james nichols [mailto:]
Sent: maandag 17 november 2003 19:00
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding
drums...
Jerry -
The simple answer to your question is "yes," in general, a drumset
should be
tuned to sound its best, but how it is tuned, and how it is played are
largely up to the drummer that has to play them. Its not like a guitar
or
bass that has to be "in tune" to not to sound off with the other
instruments. The sound of a drumset is a product of many factors
including
the shell construction, type (and condition) of the heads, tightness of
the
heads, muffling (or lack thereof) and of course the way the drummer
plays
(heavy bashing, or light playing). Also, whether or not the kit will
be
miked should influence the tuning - if you're not miking the drums, you
really want them to project and be heard with the amps - you can always
turn
up the amp, but its difficult to turn up the sound of the drums,
especially
in a big room, and certainly outside. Basically, you don't want dead
sounding drums if you're outside (at least I wouldn't).
As far as playing outside in the cold, the temperature shouldn't affect
the
drums too much - these days the heads are plastic and humidity, etc.
doesn't
alter the sound too much. Back in the days of calfskin heads, temp
changes
would affect the sound of the drums. If its really cold, you might be
concerned about the cymbals being more prone to cracking, but overall,
an
hour or two shouldn't do too much damage to the kit.
I would be more concerned about the effects of the weather on the
guitars
and amps. I'm sure temp changes affect the tuning of the strings,and
cold
temperatures probably aren't the best thing for vintage electronics, but
that's beyond my area of pseudo-expertise.
yfj
>From: "Jerry" <>
>Reply-To:
>To: <>
>Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding drums...
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:54:52 +0100
>
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Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over
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Jerry - If the drums sound dead to you, the easiest way to remedy that is to
replace the drum heads - preferably with a single ply white head (remo
ambassador or evans G-1) - use no muffling and tune them fairly tight (but
not too tight) for a wide open sound. If you're lucky enough to have bottom
heads on the drums, those should be tuned as tight, if not slightly tighter
than the top for optimum resonance. Should be even tension on all the lugs
(screws)
good luck
TFJ
>From: "Jerry" <>
>Reply-To:
>To: <>
>Subject: RE: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding drums...
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:02:50 +0100
>
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jerry -
I replied to your original post at work and somehow overlooked the part about
you going into the studio - if that's the case (and the drums sound dead to you
now), then definitely invest in some new heads (as suggested below) before
recording - preferably a few days or a week before so they have time to "sit."
You should also have them souinding their best before you get to the studio, so
you don't waste time and money screwing around with them when you're there -
that goes for silencing any rattles or squeaks, too. Evans heads used to have a
diagram on the box, or a booklet, that explained the proper way to tighten the
lugs - they may still have that I don't know, but it could be of some help.
Alot also depends on the studio setup - whether or not the drums will be
isolated from the guitars or not. If you're in the same room, you may have to
muffle the drums so they don't leak into the guitar mikes, but hopefully, you'll
have separation between the instruments. I prefer to go in with a wide open
drum sound and adjust the levels during the mixing stage - that way you still
have the natural resonating sound of the drums, but at an appropriate level that
doesn't drown out the guitars - or force you to turn the guitars way up (to the
point of distorting) just to be heard in the mix. Likewise, it sounds better
(in my opinion) to mix the resonant drums down than to try and elevate dead,
thuddy sounding drums Some people like the dead sound of Steely Dan and/or
Eagles (the US Eagles, not the good Eagles from the UK) drums, so ultimately its
up to the drummer, the band and/or whoever's footing the bill for the studio
time and the project in general.
good luck
tfj
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry
To:
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding drums...
Hi Jim,
Thanks a lot for your most intersting reply.
I'll have a look at the drumset tommorow.
At the moment it sounds a bit dead to my taste, so I guess a bit of
tuning won't hurt.
And if someone else on this list has some input regarding playing
outdoors (in cold(er) weather) with a mix of vintage an new equipment,
(SF Bandmaster/MIJ Jag/ '63 Burns Jazzbass on a new Ampeg cabinet on a H
and K tube bassamp and a MIM strat on a pro tube twin)
Your input or expertise would be most welcome
Thanks a lot,
Jerry S. from Belgium
-----Original Message-----
From: james nichols [mailto:]
Sent: maandag 17 november 2003 19:00
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding
drums...
Jerry -
The simple answer to your question is "yes," in general, a drumset
should be
tuned to sound its best, but how it is tuned, and how it is played are
largely up to the drummer that has to play them. Its not like a guitar
or
bass that has to be "in tune" to not to sound off with the other
instruments. The sound of a drumset is a product of many factors
including
the shell construction, type (and condition) of the heads, tightness of
the
heads, muffling (or lack thereof) and of course the way the drummer
plays
(heavy bashing, or light playing). Also, whether or not the kit will
be
miked should influence the tuning - if you're not miking the drums, you
really want them to project and be heard with the amps - you can always
turn
up the amp, but its difficult to turn up the sound of the drums,
especially
in a big room, and certainly outside. Basically, you don't want dead
sounding drums if you're outside (at least I wouldn't).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Jerry,
I'm guessing your drummer knows this, but I'm putting it to the list
nonetheless... when tuning the drums, always turn the lugs (?) kriss-
kross... that means one lug, then the opposite one, one inbetween
those two, the opposite one... and so on... If you start with one and
go clockwise, you could potentially warp the metal ring that holds
down the skin....... (this probably is overkill info, just for dumb
suckers with crap hardware, but since i for one belong in that
category and ruined my snare like that, i'll write it down...)
Also you can can check whether the tension is even by softly hitting
the skin on the side of it, close to each lug, and make sure the tone
is the same everywhere. the tension when turning the lug can be a bad
indicator, when they don't all turn smoothly... (again, I'm the dumb
sucker here)
wannes
PS another one in the category lame suggestions.... If it really
freezes, you can use an electrical blow-fan-heater (not a clue how to
call such a thing) to 'defrost' the amp if necessary before turning
it on. I'm not sure whether it is necessary, but I did this once when
playing outside in winter time because i was afraid of running
current to potentially frozen components (my amp had been outside for
a while)... once it is on it will heat itself of course!
I wouldn't cool the guitar down all the way to the outside
temperature, 'cause the string will warm up when you play them. just
a though. I'd be most worried about my fingers in any case.
--- In , "Jim Nichols" <toofastjim@m...>
wrote:
> Jerry -
>
> I replied to your original post at work and somehow overlooked the
part about you going into the studio - if that's the case (and the
drums sound dead to you now), then definitely invest in some new
heads (as suggested below) before recording - preferably a few days
or a week before so they have time to "sit." You should also have
them souinding their best before you get to the studio, so you don't
waste time and money screwing around with them when you're there -
that goes for silencing any rattles or squeaks, too. Evans heads
used to have a diagram on the box, or a booklet, that explained the
proper way to tighten the lugs - they may still have that I don't
know, but it could be of some help. Alot also depends on the
studio setup - whether or not the drums will be isolated from the
guitars or not. If you're in the same room, you may have to muffle
the drums so they don't leak into the guitar mikes, but hopefully,
you'll have separation between the instruments. I prefer to go in
with a wide open drum sound and adjust the levels during the mixing
stage - that way you still have the natural resonating sound of the
drums, but at an appropriate level that doesn't drown out the
guitars - or force you to turn the guitars way up (to the point of
distorting) just to be heard in the mix. Likewise, it sounds better
(in my opinion) to mix the resonant drums down than to try and
elevate dead, thuddy sounding drums Some people like the dead sound
of Steely Dan and/or Eagles (the US Eagles, not the good Eagles from
the UK) drums, so ultimately its up to the drummer, the band and/or
whoever's footing the bill for the studio time and the project in
general.
>
> good luck
>
> tfj
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerry
> To:
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:02 AM
> Subject: RE: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding
drums...
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Thanks a lot for your most intersting reply.
> I'll have a look at the drumset tommorow.
>
> At the moment it sounds a bit dead to my taste, so I guess a bit
of
> tuning won't hurt.
>
> And if someone else on this list has some input regarding playing
> outdoors (in cold(er) weather) with a mix of vintage an new
equipment,
> (SF Bandmaster/MIJ Jag/ '63 Burns Jazzbass on a new Ampeg cabinet
on a H
> and K tube bassamp and a MIM strat on a pro tube twin)
> Your input or expertise would be most welcome
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Jerry S. from Belgium
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: james nichols [mailto:toofastjim@m...]
> Sent: maandag 17 november 2003 19:00
> To:
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Question for Too Fast Jim regarding
> drums...
>
>
> Jerry -
>
> The simple answer to your question is "yes," in general, a drumset
> should be
> tuned to sound its best, but how it is tuned, and how it is
played are
> largely up to the drummer that has to play them. Its not like a
guitar
> or
> bass that has to be "in tune" to not to sound off with the other
> instruments. The sound of a drumset is a product of many factors
> including
> the shell construction, type (and condition) of the heads,
tightness of
> the
> heads, muffling (or lack thereof) and of course the way the
drummer
> plays
> (heavy bashing, or light playing). Also, whether or not the kit
will
> be
> miked should influence the tuning - if you're not miking the
drums, you
> really want them to project and be heard with the amps - you can
always
> turn
> up the amp, but its difficult to turn up the sound of the drums,
> especially
> in a big room, and certainly outside. Basically, you don't want
dead
> sounding drums if you're outside (at least I wouldn't).
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
