Menu
For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
Thanks, Phillip
Hi,
whether you like the sound of the amp is completely personal and a matter of
taste. I have a (slightly modded) 135 twin and am reasonbly satisfied.
Hell, some people like solid states, and I heard that a friend of my sisters
friend knows somebody who likes Marshalls!
If you like it go for it. but a one on one swap seems to be a rotten deal. I
cant speak for the states, but in Europe, if both in reasonable shape, I'd
say 2 and half 135W to one 65RI seems to be the reasonable deal.
my 2 cents
>From: "Landlocked" <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
>Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 23:50:47 -0000
>
>For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
>day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
>Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
>even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
>it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
>online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
>away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
>clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
>a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
>are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
>so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> Thanks, Phillip
>
_________________________________________________________________
Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger.
The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue ever will
be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point wiring, and quality
construction. The master volume is not that invasive, but, it is easy to remove.
They didn't make the cabinets as good in '78, but they're OK. They use Orange
drops caps instead of Mallorys, so the tone/response is a little different from
a BF. The driver stage in a silver face can easily be change to BlackFace spec,
if preferred.The speakers are probably better, too. If they haven't been
damaged.
-dave
Landlocked <> wrote:
For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
Thanks, Phillip
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the input Dave! Any advice on how to eliminate the
peircing highs? Maye a different tube? Would NOS be a good
investment? This is off the subject but, we need Slacktone in San
Antonio (just an gour and a half south of Austin) any chances? I
could set up the gig. Just thought I'd ask.
Thanks--Phillip
In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue
ever will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point
wiring, and quality construction. The master volume is not that
invasive, but, it is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as
good in '78, but they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of
Mallorys, so the tone/response is a little different from a BF. The
driver stage in a silver face can easily be change to BlackFace spec,
if preferred.The speakers are probably better, too. If they haven't
been damaged.
> -dave
>
>
>
>
>
> Landlocked <thee_surrealist@h...> wrote:
> For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
> day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
> Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
> even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did,
and
> it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
> online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
> away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if
a
> clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is
this
> a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the
highs
> are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR?
If
> so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> Thanks, Phillip
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To find out if you might have a tube problem, tap on each one while the volume
is turned up to a moderate leval. If you hear feedback - type microponics and
loud rattling, change the noisy ones. The power tubes {large tubes} should not
make any loud noises when tapped. If they do, they might be arcing internally
and should be replaced. The GrooveTubes 6L6GE are made by them in California
using the old GE machines. See them on their web site in the 6L6GE section.
NOS tubes like RCA, Mullard, Telefunken are real nice, and a bit pricey. When
you put them in a combo amp the proximity to the speakers shortens thier life.
But they are better sounding than anything made today. For tubes that are cheap
and sound good, I have been using the JJ brand. www.eurotubes.com Bob can help
make choices, he's a player, too.
I don't know what speakers, etc. you are using so I don't know why you have a
"piercing high" problem. The silverfaced amp probably does have a better high
freq. response than the re-issue. So, if your guitar has some rattles, you just
may be hearing them more clearly.
We would love to come to Austin, and San Antonio. We came to Austin last Oct.
and it was a great time. Any contacts you have, pass along.
-dave
Landlocked <> wrote:
Thanks for the input Dave! Any advice on how to eliminate the
peircing highs? Maye a different tube? Would NOS be a good
investment? This is off the subject but, we need Slacktone in San
Antonio (just an gour and a half south of Austin) any chances? I
could set up the gig. Just thought I'd ask.
Thanks--Phillip
In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue
ever will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point
wiring, and quality construction. The master volume is not that
invasive, but, it is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as
good in '78, but they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of
Mallorys, so the tone/response is a little different from a BF. The
driver stage in a silver face can easily be change to BlackFace spec,
if preferred.The speakers are probably better, too. If they haven't
been damaged.
> -dave
>
>
>
>
>
> Landlocked <thee_surrealist@h...> wrote:
> For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
> day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
> Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
> even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did,
and
> it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
> online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
> away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if
a
> clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is
this
> a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the
highs
> are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR?
If
> so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> Thanks, Phillip
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Dave,
is the 135watt twin's OT actually the same as the 100W/85watt, but with more
taps?
what is the benifit of removing the master volume? Is that so much different
from just setting it to 10?
thanks,
Wannes
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 04:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
>
>The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue ever
>will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point wiring,
>and quality construction. The master volume is not that invasive, but, it
>is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as good in '78, but
>they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of Mallorys, so the
>tone/response is a little different from a BF. The driver stage in a silver
>face can easily be change to BlackFace spec, if preferred.The speakers are
>probably better, too. If they haven't been damaged.
>-dave
>
>
>
>
>
>Landlocked <> wrote:
>For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
>day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
>Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
>even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
>it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
>online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
>away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
>clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
>a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
>are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
>so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> Thanks, Phillip
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
On the Fender silverface amps, the "Master Volume" is kind of a design after
thought. On these amps, turning the MV to 10 is pretty close to not having a MV.
I think, but am not sure, that the Master Vol. in these Fenders can be removed
by something almost as simple as cutting a wire. There may be a little more to
it than that, I can ask a tech friend if you need to know. Most amps with master
volume controls have a "voiced" pre-amp where they make a {usually lame} attempt
to mimic the sound/eq of a non-master amp turned up loud. The silverfaced
Fenders are not "voiced".
I don't know why he's calling it a 135watt Twin. Four 6L6 power tubes with a
solid stae rectifier gets around 85watts. Depends on quality of the tube brand,
and how it's biasd.
-dave
rock verb <> wrote:
Hi Dave,
is the 135watt twin's OT actually the same as the 100W/85watt, but with more
taps?
what is the benifit of removing the master volume? Is that so much different
from just setting it to 10?
thanks,
Wannes
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 04:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
>
>The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue ever
>will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point wiring,
>and quality construction. The master volume is not that invasive, but, it
>is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as good in '78, but
>they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of Mallorys, so the
>tone/response is a little different from a BF. The driver stage in a silver
>face can easily be change to BlackFace spec, if preferred.The speakers are
>probably better, too. If they haven't been damaged.
>-dave
>
>
>
>
>
>Landlocked <> wrote:
>For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
>day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
>Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
>even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
>it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
>online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
>away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
>clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
>a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
>are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
>so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> Thanks, Phillip
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now it gets interesting, I had almost the same discussion with an audio tube
fanatic friend of mine. When I told him about the "135watt/ 4x 6L6 twin, or,
for that matter, the "75 watt 2x6L6 Fender 75 combo", he just burst out in
laughter.
I'm not a technician, and I'll take anyones word that 4x6L6 give 85 watts
and no more. However, I didn't go around the world painting "135 watt" on
the back of all those Twins! so whats the story here? From what I get (from
ampwares and other info on the net), there are different breeds of SF twin,
commonly called "85watt twin" "100watt twin" and "135watt twin". I looked
at all the schematics and all I can tell is that the 85 and 100 watt seem to
differ a little, and the 135 seems to differ a lot, most notably the
different OT or OT-hookup.
If anyone could clear this up, it would be greatly appreciated, cause I'm
totally lost!
wannes
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On the Fender silverface amps, the "Master Volume" is kind of a design
>after thought. On these amps, turning the MV to 10 is pretty close to not
>having a MV. I think, but am not sure, that the Master Vol. in these
>Fenders can be removed by something almost as simple as cutting a wire.
>There may be a little more to it than that, I can ask a tech friend if you
>need to know. Most amps with master volume controls have a "voiced" pre-amp
>where they make a {usually lame} attempt to mimic the sound/eq of a
>non-master amp turned up loud. The silverfaced Fenders are not "voiced".
>
>I don't know why he's calling it a 135watt Twin. Four 6L6 power tubes with
>a solid stae rectifier gets around 85watts. Depends on quality of the tube
>brand, and how it's biasd.
>
>-dave
>
>rock verb <> wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>
>is the 135watt twin's OT actually the same as the 100W/85watt, but with
>more
>taps?
>what is the benifit of removing the master volume? Is that so much
>different
>from just setting it to 10?
>
>thanks,
>Wannes
>
>
> >From: dave wronski <>
> >Reply-To:
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 04:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue ever
> >will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point wiring,
> >and quality construction. The master volume is not that invasive, but, it
> >is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as good in '78, but
> >they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of Mallorys, so the
> >tone/response is a little different from a BF. The driver stage in a
>silver
> >face can easily be change to BlackFace spec, if preferred.The speakers
>are
> >probably better, too. If they haven't been damaged.
> >-dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Landlocked <> wrote:
> >For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
> >day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
> >Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
> >even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
> >it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
> >online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
> >away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
> >clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
> >a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
> >are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
> >so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> > Thanks, Phillip
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >.
> >Visit for archived messages,
> >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
They do exist . They have an Ultra Linear output transformer. This is a
technique that came from Hi Fi tube amps and makes an amp more "efficient".
This means more output power with the same input. But this makes the amp
very clean' almost Hi Fi like which made it unpopular amongst guitarists.
Roland Bettenville
-------Original Message-------
From:
Date: woensdag 06 augustus 2003 11:54:33
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
Now it gets interesting, I had almost the same discussion with an audio tube
fanatic friend of mine. When I told him about the "135watt/ 4x 6L6 twin, or,
for that matter, the "75 watt 2x6L6 Fender 75 combo", he just burst out in
laughter.
I'm not a technician, and I'll take anyones word that 4x6L6 give 85 watts
and no more. However, I didn't go around the world painting "135 watt" on
the back of all those Twins! so whats the story here? From what I get (from
ampwares and other info on the net), there are different breeds of SF twin,
commonly called "85watt twin" "100watt twin" and "135watt twin". I looked
at all the schematics and all I can tell is that the 85 and 100 watt seem to
differ a little, and the 135 seems to differ a lot, most notably the
different OT or OT-hookup.
If anyone could clear this up, it would be greatly appreciated, cause I'm
totally lost!
wannes
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On the Fender silverface amps, the "Master Volume" is kind of a design
>after thought. On these amps, turning the MV to 10 is pretty close to not
>having a MV. I think, but am not sure, that the Master Vol. in these
>Fenders can be removed by something almost as simple as cutting a wire.
>There may be a little more to it than that, I can ask a tech friend if you
>need to know. Most amps with master volume controls have a "voiced" pre-amp
>where they make a {usually lame} attempt to mimic the sound/eq of a
>non-master amp turned up loud. The silverfaced Fenders are not "voiced".
>
>I don't know why he's calling it a 135watt Twin. Four 6L6 power tubes with
>a solid stae rectifier gets around 85watts. Depends on quality of the tube
>brand, and how it's biasd.
>
>-dave
>
>rock verb <> wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>
>is the 135watt twin's OT actually the same as the 100W/85watt, but with
>more
>taps?
>what is the benifit of removing the master volume? Is that so much
>different
>from just setting it to 10?
>
>thanks,
>Wannes
>
>
> >From: dave wronski <>
> >Reply-To:
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 04:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue ever
> >will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point wiring,
> >and quality construction. The master volume is not that invasive, but, it
> >is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as good in '78, but
> >they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of Mallorys, so the
> >tone/response is a little different from a BF. The driver stage in a
>silver
> >face can easily be change to BlackFace spec, if preferred.The speakers
>are
> >probably better, too. If they haven't been damaged.
> >-dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Landlocked <> wrote:
> >For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
> >day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
> >Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
> >even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
> >it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
> >online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
> >away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
> >clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
> >a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
> >are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
> >so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> > Thanks, Phillip
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >.
> >Visit for archived messages,
> >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
briefly:
blackface twin: 85W
with the first silverface series they boosted the output up to 100W just by
increasing the voltage on the powertubes
for the 135W silverface they used the ultra linear output transformer.
Roland Bettenville
-------Original Message-------
From:
Date: woensdag 06 augustus 2003 11:54:33
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
Now it gets interesting, I had almost the same discussion with an audio tube
fanatic friend of mine. When I told him about the "135watt/ 4x 6L6 twin, or,
for that matter, the "75 watt 2x6L6 Fender 75 combo", he just burst out in
laughter.
I'm not a technician, and I'll take anyones word that 4x6L6 give 85 watts
and no more. However, I didn't go around the world painting "135 watt" on
the back of all those Twins! so whats the story here? From what I get (from
ampwares and other info on the net), there are different breeds of SF twin,
commonly called "85watt twin" "100watt twin" and "135watt twin". I looked
at all the schematics and all I can tell is that the 85 and 100 watt seem to
differ a little, and the 135 seems to differ a lot, most notably the
different OT or OT-hookup.
If anyone could clear this up, it would be greatly appreciated, cause I'm
totally lost!
wannes
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On the Fender silverface amps, the "Master Volume" is kind of a design
>after thought. On these amps, turning the MV to 10 is pretty close to not
>having a MV. I think, but am not sure, that the Master Vol. in these
>Fenders can be removed by something almost as simple as cutting a wire.
>There may be a little more to it than that, I can ask a tech friend if you
>need to know. Most amps with master volume controls have a "voiced" pre-amp
>where they make a {usually lame} attempt to mimic the sound/eq of a
>non-master amp turned up loud. The silverfaced Fenders are not "voiced".
>
>I don't know why he's calling it a 135watt Twin. Four 6L6 power tubes with
>a solid stae rectifier gets around 85watts. Depends on quality of the tube
>brand, and how it's biasd.
>
>-dave
>
>rock verb <> wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>
>is the 135watt twin's OT actually the same as the 100W/85watt, but with
>more
>taps?
>what is the benifit of removing the master volume? Is that so much
>different
>from just setting it to 10?
>
>thanks,
>Wannes
>
>
> >From: dave wronski <>
> >Reply-To:
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 04:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue ever
> >will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point wiring,
> >and quality construction. The master volume is not that invasive, but, it
> >is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as good in '78, but
> >they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of Mallorys, so the
> >tone/response is a little different from a BF. The driver stage in a
>silver
> >face can easily be change to BlackFace spec, if preferred.The speakers
>are
> >probably better, too. If they haven't been damaged.
> >-dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Landlocked <> wrote:
> >For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
> >day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
> >Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
> >even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
> >it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
> >online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
> >away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
> >clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
> >a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
> >are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
> >so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> > Thanks, Phillip
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >.
> >Visit for archived messages,
> >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here's some info on the power question. The super six is the same as a Twin.
-dave
Roland Bettenville <> wrote:
briefly:
blackface twin: 85W
with the first silverface series they boosted the output up to 100W just by
increasing the voltage on the powertubes
for the 135W silverface they used the ultra linear output transformer.
Roland Bettenville
-------Original Message-------
From:
Date: woensdag 06 augustus 2003 11:54:33
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
Now it gets interesting, I had almost the same discussion with an audio tube
fanatic friend of mine. When I told him about the "135watt/ 4x 6L6 twin, or,
for that matter, the "75 watt 2x6L6 Fender 75 combo", he just burst out in
laughter.
I'm not a technician, and I'll take anyones word that 4x6L6 give 85 watts
and no more. However, I didn't go around the world painting "135 watt" on
the back of all those Twins! so whats the story here? From what I get (from
ampwares and other info on the net), there are different breeds of SF twin,
commonly called "85watt twin" "100watt twin" and "135watt twin". I looked
at all the schematics and all I can tell is that the 85 and 100 watt seem to
differ a little, and the 135 seems to differ a lot, most notably the
different OT or OT-hookup.
If anyone could clear this up, it would be greatly appreciated, cause I'm
totally lost!
wannes
>From: dave wronski <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On the Fender silverface amps, the "Master Volume" is kind of a design
>after thought. On these amps, turning the MV to 10 is pretty close to not
>having a MV. I think, but am not sure, that the Master Vol. in these
>Fenders can be removed by something almost as simple as cutting a wire.
>There may be a little more to it than that, I can ask a tech friend if you
>need to know. Most amps with master volume controls have a "voiced" pre-amp
>where they make a {usually lame} attempt to mimic the sound/eq of a
>non-master amp turned up loud. The silverfaced Fenders are not "voiced".
>
>I don't know why he's calling it a 135watt Twin. Four 6L6 power tubes with
>a solid stae rectifier gets around 85watts. Depends on quality of the tube
>brand, and how it's biasd.
>
>-dave
>
>rock verb <> wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>
>is the 135watt twin's OT actually the same as the 100W/85watt, but with
>more
>taps?
>what is the benifit of removing the master volume? Is that so much
>different
>from just setting it to 10?
>
>thanks,
>Wannes
>
>
> >From: dave wronski <>
> >Reply-To:
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] 78 Silverface Twin vs. RI Blackface 65 Twin?
> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 04:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >The silverface Twin is alot closer to a blackface than the re-issue ever
> >will be. It's got the same transformers, chassis, point to point wiring,
> >and quality construction. The master volume is not that invasive, but, it
> >is easy to remove. They didn't make the cabinets as good in '78, but
> >they're OK. They use Orange drops caps instead of Mallorys, so the
> >tone/response is a little different from a BF. The driver stage in a
>silver
> >face can easily be change to BlackFace spec, if preferred.The speakers
>are
> >probably better, too. If they haven't been damaged.
> >-dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Landlocked <> wrote:
> >For the past year I've been playing through a RI 65 Twin. The other
> >day I spotted a sharp looking 78 Silverface Twin(135 rms & Master
> >Volume knob) The shop owner agreed to do an even swap if I desired
> >even agreeing to let me take it to practice that night. So I did, and
> >it sounds great. Now, I'm no amp geek but I've read certain reviews
> >online even dug through the archives of Surf 101.I've read to stay
> >away from these amps from some people, others love em-especially if a
> >clean tone is desired.(I play surf, the second applies to me) Is this
> >a wise decision? The amp definitely has a fatter sound but the highs
> >are a bit piercing. Has anyone had any experience with the 78 TR? If
> >so, your inpit is greatlt appreciated!
> > Thanks, Phillip
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >.
> >Visit for archived messages,
> >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>.
>Visit for archived messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten!
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
