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Ivan,Jim,
Not to drudge up old flame wars. But Dynotones did some gigs
recently with Tim Fitzpatrick of the Lively Ones on drums. I'd say
it was one of their most swingin' sets I'd ever seen them do. They
have always been one band that really pushes the R&B side of the
surf genre. But kinda make it modern and heavy especailly live. But
Tim's Jazz & Swing roots really brought out the swingin' side of
them even more. He's got a odd style I'm not used to seeing, and
only uses a huge old Ride for all his cymbals, except hi-hat of
course.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
> Hey Jim!
>
> This is most excellent - thanks for such a detailed analysis of the
> rhythmic structure of SS! Some of the technical aspects of rhythm
> that you talk about I don't understand well enough to completely
> follow, but I think I get the overall gist of what you're saying.
> Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to imply that I was unhappy with
> how Doug played the song, I just tried to explain how it evolved.
As
> you say, it sounds pretty good as it is. But it's very cool that
> you're able to analyze it like this. Thanks again! Looking
forward
> to chatting with you in a few months.
>
> Ivan
>
> PS I love the 'swing' - the subtle syncopations - of the surf
> drummers from the sixties. It's obvious those guys were taught
drums
> by jazz drummers, but it adds such a cool component to their rock
> playing. This is one thing that i really miss in modern surf
> drummers, who tend to be completely immersed in rock, and therefore
> lack that subtle swing. The one modern surf drummer that really
> comes to mind when talking about the swing in his playing is the
> Fathoms drummer - is it Stan something? I love his playing.
>
> --- In , "toofastjim"
<toofastjim@e...>
> wrote:
> > Funny how song arrangements (and sometimes songs themselves) are
> changed, or even written within days, weeks, hours or minutes of
> recording.
> >
> > As far as XKE & Solaris Stomp are concerned - XKE features not
just
> any surf beat, but the quintessential Astronauts beat made famous
by
> then 19-year old James Gallagher on their classic surf tracks
> like "Surf Party" "The Pier," "Hot Doggin'" "Surf Softly and
Carry
> a Big Board" and "Banzai Pipeline" (although the Boss Martians
> drummer puts a little more emphasis on the "&" of "4"). I think
in
> order for that beat to be most effective, the rhythm guitar (or a
> rhyhm guitar) should play straight 8th notes - or in the case of
the
> Martians, a constant, steady keyboard presence (holding notes down
> instead of frantically playing like Billy Preston near an
elementary
> school at recess). And that's one tough beat to play correctly,
> too. I still don't think I play it right - or at least to my own
> satisfaction
> >
> > In Solaris Stomp, I think the traditional surf beat is much more
> appropriate for the song (regardless of who made the final
decision)
> as it still accomplishes the goal of driving the song, but doesn't
> get in the way of the rhythm guitar, which is obviously doing a
> little more than playing straight 8th notes. The space between
> the "&" of "2" and the backbeat on "4" in that song is nothing
short
> of musical precision - I don't think squeezing the extra Astronauts
> beats in there would have yielded the same results & probably would
> have gotten in the way of the rhythm guitar. The Astronauts beat
> really puts the focus on the 4-on-the-floor bass drum figure &
> minimizes to some degree the backbeat on the snare, especially
> on "4," which as I said before is an essential component
of "Solaris
> Stomp."
> >
> > the end
> >
> > -tfj-
> >
> > PS- That Dano's really good at filling holes.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: ipongrac
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:37 PM
> > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Rhythm Guitar / Chords / Chunking
> >
> >
> > Excellent stuff, Dano!! You really filled out all the holes I
> left
> > off. I couldn't add anything else.
> >
> > > The song I think emphasizes this in the most incredible way
is
> > Solaris
> > > Stomp by The Space Cossacks. To me that rhythm part at the
> > beginning is just
> > > unbelievable. JUST the right amount of subtlety but the right
> > amount of "sack" to drive the song. AWESOME!
> >
> > Thanks, man! Very nice of you. Just to tie this in with my
> earlier
> > points, we recorded Solaris Stomp within a month of the first
> time we
> > played with the Fathoms. We've been playing around with the
song
> for
> > a while, and it used to have an arrangement that sounded
similar
> > to "Neutron Sabre" - so, more of the Dick Dale/Miserlou/Hava
> Nagila
> > beat. I grew quite dissatisfied with it, and after seeing the
> > Fathoms had an epiphany. As I mentioned, I bought the
> Jazzmaster,
> > and rearranged the song, basing it much more on the smoother
> sound of
> > the Jazzmaster with flatwounds (and playing it in lower
registers
> > than I did originally, I think). Changed the syncopated beat
to
> the
> > steady, smooth surf-beat - in fact, I remember playing "XKE" by
> the
> > Boss Martians to Doug (drummer) when we first tried playing the
> new
> > arrangement to explain to him what I wanted - I just loved how
> that
> > song moved along - though I think he played a simpler part than
> on
> > XKE. And the last thing I did was add that intro which was
> TOTALLY
> > Fathoms - at least in my mind. There's a lot to be said about
> > ripping off... err, I mean, being INSPIRED by other bands.
Yeah,
> > that's it! :) We recorded that in January of '97, on the same
> date
> > that yielded Neutron Sabre and Shark Attack from that split EP
> with
> > the Penetrators. We rerecorded Neutron Sabre when we were
> recording
> > the first album in September of '97, and we tried to rerecord
> Solaris
> > Stomp, too - but the new version just lacked that special
> something
> > that the original recording had, so we just used the original
for
> the
> > album, too. It was just a beautiful confluence of factors.
The
> > first time that I used my (Jap) Jazzmaster on a recording
> session,
> > too. Oh, and my reverb tank was a reissue, but BEFORE I made
the
> > usual mods, so it was completely original. Oh yeah, the
pickups
> in
> > the Jazzmaster were also the original Jap pickups! Go figure.
> > People still point to that song as my best recorded authentic
> trad
> > tone - and I was using crappy pickups AND an unmodded reissue
> reverb
> > tank! It can be done, apparently... (Soon after that session,
I
> > switched to Seymour Duncan pickups and had the mods made,
> including
> > the NOS tubes - and never again sounded as good! :)
> >
> > Postscript: if you will please indulge me while I brag for a
> second.
> > We were really interested in having Deke Dickerson produce our
> first
> > album, cause, well, cause Deke is God! That man knows sound,
and
> > knows guitar. I got in touch with him, and he wanted to hear
> what we
> > sounded like, so I sent him those early tracks. I was so proud
> when
> > I heard back from him - paraphrasing, he said something
> like "Solaris
> > Stomp is an ultimate surf song"!! (he wasn't as thrilled by
the
> > other two, but no need to talk about that. :)) You could have
> > knocked me over with a feather. That was cool. If he only
knew -
>
> > Jap pickups and unmodded reissue reverb tanks! It would have
> been
> > quite costly to have him come to Washington to produce us, so
he
> just
> > told us to try to make the album sound like Solaris Stomp, and
> we'll
> > be fine. A great guy.
> >
> > Ivan
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tim fitzpatrick is totally cool...those old Lively Ones LPs
really swing!
dp
--- Jeff <> wrote:
> Ivan,Jim,
> Not to drudge up old flame wars. But Dynotones did some
> gigs
> recently with Tim Fitzpatrick of the Lively Ones on
> drums. I'd say
> it was one of their most swingin' sets I'd ever seen
> them do. They
> have always been one band that really pushes the R&B
> side of the
> surf genre. But kinda make it modern and heavy
> especailly live. But
> Tim's Jazz & Swing roots really brought out the swingin'
> side of
> them even more. He's got a odd style I'm not used to
> seeing, and
> only uses a huge old Ride for all his cymbals, except
> hi-hat of
> course.
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "ipongrac"
> <ipongrac@g...>
> wrote:
> > Hey Jim!
> >
> > This is most excellent - thanks for such a detailed
> analysis of the
> > rhythmic structure of SS! Some of the technical
> aspects of rhythm
> > that you talk about I don't understand well enough to
> completely
> > follow, but I think I get the overall gist of what
> you're saying.
> > Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to imply that I was
> unhappy with
> > how Doug played the song, I just tried to explain how
> it evolved.
> As
> > you say, it sounds pretty good as it is. But it's very
> cool that
> > you're able to analyze it like this. Thanks again!
> Looking
> forward
> > to chatting with you in a few months.
> >
> > Ivan
> >
> > PS I love the 'swing' - the subtle syncopations - of
> the surf
> > drummers from the sixties. It's obvious those guys
> were taught
> drums
> > by jazz drummers, but it adds such a cool component to
> their rock
> > playing. This is one thing that i really miss in
> modern surf
> > drummers, who tend to be completely immersed in rock,
> and therefore
> > lack that subtle swing. The one modern surf drummer
> that really
> > comes to mind when talking about the swing in his
> playing is the
> > Fathoms drummer - is it Stan something? I love his
> playing.
> >
> > --- In , "toofastjim"
> <toofastjim@e...>
> > wrote:
> > > Funny how song arrangements (and sometimes songs
> themselves) are
> > changed, or even written within days, weeks, hours or
> minutes of
> > recording.
> > >
> > > As far as XKE & Solaris Stomp are concerned - XKE
> features not
> just
> > any surf beat, but the quintessential Astronauts beat
> made famous
> by
> > then 19-year old James Gallagher on their classic surf
> tracks
> > like "Surf Party" "The Pier," "Hot Doggin'" "Surf
> Softly and
> Carry
> > a Big Board" and "Banzai Pipeline" (although the Boss
> Martians
> > drummer puts a little more emphasis on the "&" of
> "4"). I think
> in
> > order for that beat to be most effective, the rhythm
> guitar (or a
> > rhyhm guitar) should play straight 8th notes - or in
> the case of
> the
> > Martians, a constant, steady keyboard presence
> (holding notes down
> > instead of frantically playing like Billy Preston near
> an
> elementary
> > school at recess). And that's one tough beat to play
> correctly,
> > too. I still don't think I play it right - or at least
> to my own
> > satisfaction
> > >
> > > In Solaris Stomp, I think the traditional surf beat
> is much more
> > appropriate for the song (regardless of who made the
> final
> decision)
> > as it still accomplishes the goal of driving the song,
> but doesn't
> > get in the way of the rhythm guitar, which is obviously
> doing a
> > little more than playing straight 8th notes. The space
> between
> > the "&" of "2" and the backbeat on "4" in that song is
> nothing
> short
> > of musical precision - I don't think squeezing the
> extra Astronauts
> > beats in there would have yielded the same results &
> probably would
> > have gotten in the way of the rhythm guitar. The
> Astronauts beat
> > really puts the focus on the 4-on-the-floor bass drum
> figure &
> > minimizes to some degree the backbeat on the snare,
> especially
> > on "4," which as I said before is an essential
> component
> of "Solaris
> > Stomp."
> > >
> > > the end
> > >
> > > -tfj-
> > >
> > > PS- That Dano's really good at filling holes.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: ipongrac
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:37 PM
> > > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Rhythm Guitar / Chords
> / Chunking
> > >
> > >
> > > Excellent stuff, Dano!! You really filled out all
> the holes I
> > left
> > > off. I couldn't add anything else.
> > >
> > > > The song I think emphasizes this in the most
> incredible way
> is
> > > Solaris
> > > > Stomp by The Space Cossacks. To me that rhythm
> part at the
> > > beginning is just
> > > > unbelievable. JUST the right amount of subtlety
> but the right
> > > amount of "sack" to drive the song. AWESOME!
> > >
> > > Thanks, man! Very nice of you. Just to tie this
> in with my
> > earlier
> > > points, we recorded Solaris Stomp within a month of
> the first
> > time we
> > > played with the Fathoms. We've been playing around
> with the
> song
> > for
> > > a while, and it used to have an arrangement that
> sounded
> similar
> > > to "Neutron Sabre" - so, more of the Dick
> Dale/Miserlou/Hava
> > Nagila
> > > beat. I grew quite dissatisfied with it, and after
> seeing the
> > > Fathoms had an epiphany. As I mentioned, I bought
> the
> > Jazzmaster,
> > > and rearranged the song, basing it much more on the
> smoother
> > sound of
> > > the Jazzmaster with flatwounds (and playing it in
> lower
> registers
> > > than I did originally, I think). Changed the
> syncopated beat
> to
> > the
> > > steady, smooth surf-beat - in fact, I remember
> playing "XKE" by
> > the
>
=== message truncated ===
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