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Funny how song arrangements (and sometimes songs themselves) are changed, or
even written within days, weeks, hours or minutes of recording.
As far as XKE & Solaris Stomp are concerned - XKE features not just any surf
beat, but the quintessential Astronauts beat made famous by then 19-year old
James Gallagher on their classic surf tracks like "Surf Party" "The Pier," "Hot
Doggin'" "Surf Softly and Carry a Big Board" and "Banzai Pipeline" (although
the Boss Martians drummer puts a little more emphasis on the "&" of "4"). I
think in order for that beat to be most effective, the rhythm guitar (or a rhyhm
guitar) should play straight 8th notes - or in the case of the Martians, a
constant, steady keyboard presence (holding notes down instead of frantically
playing like Billy Preston near an elementary school at recess). And that's
one tough beat to play correctly, too. I still don't think I play it right - or
at least to my own satisfaction
In Solaris Stomp, I think the traditional surf beat is much more appropriate for
the song (regardless of who made the final decision) as it still accomplishes
the goal of driving the song, but doesn't get in the way of the rhythm guitar,
which is obviously doing a little more than playing straight 8th notes. The
space between the "&" of "2" and the backbeat on "4" in that song is nothing
short of musical precision - I don't think squeezing the extra Astronauts beats
in there would have yielded the same results & probably would have gotten in the
way of the rhythm guitar. The Astronauts beat really puts the focus on the
4-on-the-floor bass drum figure & minimizes to some degree the backbeat on the
snare, especially on "4," which as I said before is an essential component of
"Solaris Stomp."
the end
-tfj-
PS- That Dano's really good at filling holes.
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:37 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Rhythm Guitar / Chords / Chunking
Excellent stuff, Dano!! You really filled out all the holes I left
off. I couldn't add anything else.
> The song I think emphasizes this in the most incredible way is
Solaris
> Stomp by The Space Cossacks. To me that rhythm part at the
beginning is just
> unbelievable. JUST the right amount of subtlety but the right
amount of "sack" to drive the song. AWESOME!
Thanks, man! Very nice of you. Just to tie this in with my earlier
points, we recorded Solaris Stomp within a month of the first time we
played with the Fathoms. We've been playing around with the song for
a while, and it used to have an arrangement that sounded similar
to "Neutron Sabre" - so, more of the Dick Dale/Miserlou/Hava Nagila
beat. I grew quite dissatisfied with it, and after seeing the
Fathoms had an epiphany. As I mentioned, I bought the Jazzmaster,
and rearranged the song, basing it much more on the smoother sound of
the Jazzmaster with flatwounds (and playing it in lower registers
than I did originally, I think). Changed the syncopated beat to the
steady, smooth surf-beat - in fact, I remember playing "XKE" by the
Boss Martians to Doug (drummer) when we first tried playing the new
arrangement to explain to him what I wanted - I just loved how that
song moved along - though I think he played a simpler part than on
XKE. And the last thing I did was add that intro which was TOTALLY
Fathoms - at least in my mind. There's a lot to be said about
ripping off... err, I mean, being INSPIRED by other bands. Yeah,
that's it! :) We recorded that in January of '97, on the same date
that yielded Neutron Sabre and Shark Attack from that split EP with
the Penetrators. We rerecorded Neutron Sabre when we were recording
the first album in September of '97, and we tried to rerecord Solaris
Stomp, too - but the new version just lacked that special something
that the original recording had, so we just used the original for the
album, too. It was just a beautiful confluence of factors. The
first time that I used my (Jap) Jazzmaster on a recording session,
too. Oh, and my reverb tank was a reissue, but BEFORE I made the
usual mods, so it was completely original. Oh yeah, the pickups in
the Jazzmaster were also the original Jap pickups! Go figure.
People still point to that song as my best recorded authentic trad
tone - and I was using crappy pickups AND an unmodded reissue reverb
tank! It can be done, apparently... (Soon after that session, I
switched to Seymour Duncan pickups and had the mods made, including
the NOS tubes - and never again sounded as good! :)
Postscript: if you will please indulge me while I brag for a second.
We were really interested in having Deke Dickerson produce our first
album, cause, well, cause Deke is God! That man knows sound, and
knows guitar. I got in touch with him, and he wanted to hear what we
sounded like, so I sent him those early tracks. I was so proud when
I heard back from him - paraphrasing, he said something like "Solaris
Stomp is an ultimate surf song"!! (he wasn't as thrilled by the
other two, but no need to talk about that. :)) You could have
knocked me over with a feather. That was cool. If he only knew -
Jap pickups and unmodded reissue reverb tanks! It would have been
quite costly to have him come to Washington to produce us, so he just
told us to try to make the album sound like Solaris Stomp, and we'll
be fine. A great guy.
Ivan
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Hey Jim!
This is most excellent - thanks for such a detailed analysis of the
rhythmic structure of SS! Some of the technical aspects of rhythm
that you talk about I don't understand well enough to completely
follow, but I think I get the overall gist of what you're saying.
Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to imply that I was unhappy with
how Doug played the song, I just tried to explain how it evolved. As
you say, it sounds pretty good as it is. But it's very cool that
you're able to analyze it like this. Thanks again! Looking forward
to chatting with you in a few months.
Ivan
PS I love the 'swing' - the subtle syncopations - of the surf
drummers from the sixties. It's obvious those guys were taught drums
by jazz drummers, but it adds such a cool component to their rock
playing. This is one thing that i really miss in modern surf
drummers, who tend to be completely immersed in rock, and therefore
lack that subtle swing. The one modern surf drummer that really
comes to mind when talking about the swing in his playing is the
Fathoms drummer - is it Stan something? I love his playing.
--- In , "toofastjim" <toofastjim@e...>
wrote:
> Funny how song arrangements (and sometimes songs themselves) are
changed, or even written within days, weeks, hours or minutes of
recording.
>
> As far as XKE & Solaris Stomp are concerned - XKE features not just
any surf beat, but the quintessential Astronauts beat made famous by
then 19-year old James Gallagher on their classic surf tracks
like "Surf Party" "The Pier," "Hot Doggin'" "Surf Softly and Carry
a Big Board" and "Banzai Pipeline" (although the Boss Martians
drummer puts a little more emphasis on the "&" of "4"). I think in
order for that beat to be most effective, the rhythm guitar (or a
rhyhm guitar) should play straight 8th notes - or in the case of the
Martians, a constant, steady keyboard presence (holding notes down
instead of frantically playing like Billy Preston near an elementary
school at recess). And that's one tough beat to play correctly,
too. I still don't think I play it right - or at least to my own
satisfaction
>
> In Solaris Stomp, I think the traditional surf beat is much more
appropriate for the song (regardless of who made the final decision)
as it still accomplishes the goal of driving the song, but doesn't
get in the way of the rhythm guitar, which is obviously doing a
little more than playing straight 8th notes. The space between
the "&" of "2" and the backbeat on "4" in that song is nothing short
of musical precision - I don't think squeezing the extra Astronauts
beats in there would have yielded the same results & probably would
have gotten in the way of the rhythm guitar. The Astronauts beat
really puts the focus on the 4-on-the-floor bass drum figure &
minimizes to some degree the backbeat on the snare, especially
on "4," which as I said before is an essential component of "Solaris
Stomp."
>
> the end
>
> -tfj-
>
> PS- That Dano's really good at filling holes.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ipongrac
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:37 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Rhythm Guitar / Chords / Chunking
>
>
> Excellent stuff, Dano!! You really filled out all the holes I
left
> off. I couldn't add anything else.
>
> > The song I think emphasizes this in the most incredible way is
> Solaris
> > Stomp by The Space Cossacks. To me that rhythm part at the
> beginning is just
> > unbelievable. JUST the right amount of subtlety but the right
> amount of "sack" to drive the song. AWESOME!
>
> Thanks, man! Very nice of you. Just to tie this in with my
earlier
> points, we recorded Solaris Stomp within a month of the first
time we
> played with the Fathoms. We've been playing around with the song
for
> a while, and it used to have an arrangement that sounded similar
> to "Neutron Sabre" - so, more of the Dick Dale/Miserlou/Hava
Nagila
> beat. I grew quite dissatisfied with it, and after seeing the
> Fathoms had an epiphany. As I mentioned, I bought the
Jazzmaster,
> and rearranged the song, basing it much more on the smoother
sound of
> the Jazzmaster with flatwounds (and playing it in lower registers
> than I did originally, I think). Changed the syncopated beat to
the
> steady, smooth surf-beat - in fact, I remember playing "XKE" by
the
> Boss Martians to Doug (drummer) when we first tried playing the
new
> arrangement to explain to him what I wanted - I just loved how
that
> song moved along - though I think he played a simpler part than
on
> XKE. And the last thing I did was add that intro which was
TOTALLY
> Fathoms - at least in my mind. There's a lot to be said about
> ripping off... err, I mean, being INSPIRED by other bands. Yeah,
> that's it! :) We recorded that in January of '97, on the same
date
> that yielded Neutron Sabre and Shark Attack from that split EP
with
> the Penetrators. We rerecorded Neutron Sabre when we were
recording
> the first album in September of '97, and we tried to rerecord
Solaris
> Stomp, too - but the new version just lacked that special
something
> that the original recording had, so we just used the original for
the
> album, too. It was just a beautiful confluence of factors. The
> first time that I used my (Jap) Jazzmaster on a recording
session,
> too. Oh, and my reverb tank was a reissue, but BEFORE I made the
> usual mods, so it was completely original. Oh yeah, the pickups
in
> the Jazzmaster were also the original Jap pickups! Go figure.
> People still point to that song as my best recorded authentic
trad
> tone - and I was using crappy pickups AND an unmodded reissue
reverb
> tank! It can be done, apparently... (Soon after that session, I
> switched to Seymour Duncan pickups and had the mods made,
including
> the NOS tubes - and never again sounded as good! :)
>
> Postscript: if you will please indulge me while I brag for a
second.
> We were really interested in having Deke Dickerson produce our
first
> album, cause, well, cause Deke is God! That man knows sound, and
> knows guitar. I got in touch with him, and he wanted to hear
what we
> sounded like, so I sent him those early tracks. I was so proud
when
> I heard back from him - paraphrasing, he said something
like "Solaris
> Stomp is an ultimate surf song"!! (he wasn't as thrilled by the
> other two, but no need to talk about that. :)) You could have
> knocked me over with a feather. That was cool. If he only knew -
> Jap pickups and unmodded reissue reverb tanks! It would have
been
> quite costly to have him come to Washington to produce us, so he
just
> told us to try to make the album sound like Solaris Stomp, and
we'll
> be fine. A great guy.
>
> Ivan
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
