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Hello everyone,
I want to try messing around and learn to play surf music with a
couple of my freinds. I know absolutely nothing about electric
guitars, except that I do not want to drop more then say 200-250
bucks to get started.
I found a guy who will sell me a fender bullet squire or some such
guitar for about 80 bucks. Now, first of all, would that be an OK one
to start with, or is it way off the wall of what could be a "surf
guitar".
Second, as far as amps and "reverb units"..what do I want to do? I am
a little confused as to what a reverb unit is as compared to just an
amp that has a reverb effect... Anyhow, what could I get for starters
assuming I would want to spend less then 250 on it?
Sorry for all the demanding questions, but I don't really know where
to start :)
Ryan wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I want to try messing around and learn to play surf music with a
> couple of my freinds. I know absolutely nothing about electric
> guitars, except that I do not want to drop more then say 200-250
> bucks to get started.
Welcome to the gang... I'm also a relative newbie. Got my first guitar
just a little over a year ago, and have been learning what to do with it
ever since.
You may find it can get a bit expensive, depending on what you're
looking to do.
> I found a guy who will sell me a fender bullet squire or some such
> guitar for about 80 bucks. Now, first of all, would that be an OK one
> to start with, or is it way off the wall of what could be a "surf
> guitar".
A bullet strat should be fine. Traditionally, the guitar of choice is a
Fender Jaguar - but the strat is also an excellent surf guitar. Dick
Dale, the father of surf music, plays one. I also play one.
There's a modification you can do to a strat to make it sound more like
a Jag, too. Just unscrew and swap the middle and neck pickups in the
pickguard. The former "neck/mid" setting will now be a "neck/bridge"
setting which will give you the mix of treble and mid that a Jag
supplies.
$80 is a pretty decent price for a bullet strat, providing it's in
decent shape. I got a hardtail Bullet as my second guitar, for $100, but
it came with a warped neck making it unplayable. If you've already
played it beforehand to test it, and found it problem-free, then go for it.
Is the one he's selling a hartail, or tremolo? A hardtail won't allow
you to do those subtle trem dips you find in surf tunes.
> Second, as far as amps and "reverb units"..what do I want to do? I am
> a little confused as to what a reverb unit is as compared to just an
> amp that has a reverb effect... Anyhow, what could I get for starters
> assuming I would want to spend less then 250 on it?
There are many kinds of reverb. Some amps use a digital reverb, some
amps use a spring reverb. The classic surf sound is the spring reverb.
The heart of a spring reverb unit is a long metal box, with springs
stretched inside from one end to the other. The guitar's electrical
signal is amplified, and sent through these springs, causing them to
become magnetised. As they are magnetically attracted to each other,
they begin to "bounce" and cause a reverberation in the electrical
signal as they interfere with each other's magnetic fields. When a
reverb of this type is cranked up to full power, the springs bounce
quite fiercely, giving the outcoming signal a splashy, wet sound - the
sound usually associated with surf bands:
(me, my strat, and my reverb tank)
Most Fender amps come with a spring tank inside them - I have a litle
25r that has an onboard Reverb tank. It's nice, but it doesn't quite
have the oomph of my outboard unit. I can't get that nice wet splash out
of it.
At your price range, I'd suggest ebay or your local pawn shops. I got my
hands on a 64' Premier tank, for a little over $200 on ebay. You may get
lucky and find a tank in your price range.
For example: here's a rack mount spring reverb unit currently at $51,
with just over five hours until close... Might be worth diving onto if
you can't find anything else.
> Sorry for all the demanding questions, but I don't really know where
> to start :)
No prob. everybody's gotta start someplace. :)
As a final note, there are some reverb pedals, but of the ones I've
tried, I haven't been impressed. I'd probably avoid trying to use a
pedal for your reverb, except as a last-ditch effort.
Hope this has been of some help.
-c*
Thanks for the encouragement cobalt.
I went and checked out the bullet - it is really really nice.
Basically brand new. He threw in a multivox "1st wave" amp also.
Now, this amp has a reverb knob on it, and a distortion and reverb
hookup in the back. Would I want to get an independant reverb unit
and hook it up?
Also, the bullet is a hardtail, but supposedly I could get a whammy
bar installed. Would that help?
I will fool around with it today and try that little modification you
suggested. Thanks for the help!
--- In , cobalt <Christophert@s...>
wrote:
>
>
> Ryan wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I want to try messing around and learn to play surf music with a
> > couple of my freinds. I know absolutely nothing about electric
> > guitars, except that I do not want to drop more then say 200-250
> > bucks to get started.
>
> Welcome to the gang... I'm also a relative newbie. Got my first
guitar
> just a little over a year ago, and have been learning what to do
with it
> ever since.
>
> You may find it can get a bit expensive, depending on what you're
> looking to do.
>
>
> > I found a guy who will sell me a fender bullet squire or some such
> > guitar for about 80 bucks. Now, first of all, would that be an OK
one
> > to start with, or is it way off the wall of what could be a "surf
> > guitar".
>
> A bullet strat should be fine. Traditionally, the guitar of choice
is a
> Fender Jaguar - but the strat is also an excellent surf guitar. Dick
> Dale, the father of surf music, plays one. I also play one.
>
> There's a modification you can do to a strat to make it sound more
like
> a Jag, too. Just unscrew and swap the middle and neck pickups in the
> pickguard. The former "neck/mid" setting will now be a "neck/bridge"
> setting which will give you the mix of treble and mid that a Jag
> supplies.
>
> $80 is a pretty decent price for a bullet strat, providing it's in
> decent shape. I got a hardtail Bullet as my second guitar, for
$100, but
> it came with a warped neck making it unplayable. If you've already
> played it beforehand to test it, and found it problem-free, then go
for it.
>
> Is the one he's selling a hartail, or tremolo? A hardtail won't
allow
> you to do those subtle trem dips you find in surf tunes.
>
>
> > Second, as far as amps and "reverb units"..what do I want to do?
I am
> > a little confused as to what a reverb unit is as compared to just
an
> > amp that has a reverb effect... Anyhow, what could I get for
starters
> > assuming I would want to spend less then 250 on it?
>
> There are many kinds of reverb. Some amps use a digital reverb, some
> amps use a spring reverb. The classic surf sound is the spring
reverb.
>
> The heart of a spring reverb unit is a long metal box, with springs
> stretched inside from one end to the other. The guitar's electrical
> signal is amplified, and sent through these springs, causing them to
> become magnetised. As they are magnetically attracted to each other,
> they begin to "bounce" and cause a reverberation in the electrical
> signal as they interfere with each other's magnetic fields. When a
> reverb of this type is cranked up to full power, the springs bounce
> quite fiercely, giving the outcoming signal a splashy, wet sound -
the
> sound usually associated with surf bands:
>
>
> (me, my strat, and my reverb tank)
>
> Most Fender amps come with a spring tank inside them - I have a
litle
> 25r that has an onboard Reverb tank. It's nice, but it doesn't quite
> have the oomph of my outboard unit. I can't get that nice wet
splash out
> of it.
>
> At your price range, I'd suggest ebay or your local pawn shops. I
got my
> hands on a 64' Premier tank, for a little over $200 on ebay. You
may get
> lucky and find a tank in your price range.
>
> For example: here's a rack mount spring reverb unit currently at
$51,
> with just over five hours until close... Might be worth diving onto
if
> you can't find anything else.
>
>
ViewItem&item=2522164483&category=1288
>
> > Sorry for all the demanding questions, but I don't really know
where
> > to start :)
>
> No prob. everybody's gotta start someplace. :)
>
> As a final note, there are some reverb pedals, but of the ones I've
> tried, I haven't been impressed. I'd probably avoid trying to use a
> pedal for your reverb, except as a last-ditch effort.
>
> Hope this has been of some help.
>
> -c*
Ryan wrote:
>
> Thanks for the encouragement cobalt.
>
> I went and checked out the bullet - it is really really nice.
> Basically brand new. He threw in a multivox "1st wave" amp also.
That's a good deal for only $80. Congrats! Multivox amps were
manufactured by Premier, which is the same company that manufactured my
spring outboard.
> Now, this amp has a reverb knob on it, and a distortion and reverb
> hookup in the back. Would I want to get an independant reverb unit
> and hook it up?
That depends on what you think of the built-in one, really. Does it
create the tone you wanted? It's personal taste, and it's really your
call to make. I have no idea what your setup sounds like. Crank the
reverb and see if it gets wet enough for you.
Apart from taking the thing apart to see how it's built, you can easily
find out if your reverb is a spring reverb by giving the side of the amp
a kick while it's running. If it's a spring reverb, you'll get a
clattering electronic wooshing sound from the agitated springs.
> Also, the bullet is a hardtail, but supposedly I could get a whammy
> bar installed. Would that help?
Having a whammy bar isn't entirely nessecary, but you'll be unable to do
chord bends without one.
Retrofitting a hardtail with a trem unit is pretty hard - Fender tremolo
units go all the way through the body and anchor to a series of springs
mounted in the back, thusly:
It's not something I would attempt.
On the other hand... you CAN buy new guitar bodies. There are several
places online which will sell you a pre-routed body in either painted,
or unpainted form. If, after you've run with the hardtail for awhile,
you find yourself really jonesing for a trem unit, you can always swap
the body out.
Or, alternately, I believe a Bullet strat with trem unit is only a
little over $100 - This may be cheaper than buying a new body and a new
trem bridge, would save you the hassle of assembling it yourself, and
you can *never* have too many guitars. Check music stores in your area,
and see what kind of price ranges they offer.
> I will fool around with it today and try that little modification you
> suggested. Thanks for the help!
Cool deal. Glad to be of service..
-c*
I swapped the pickups on the bullet - I could definately notice a
differant quality afterwards.
The reverb on the multivox does not seem to really do anything
actually. Its a good amp to practice on, since I am really just
barely terrible at playing so far. Is there a cheapo way to get some
really wet reverb through this amp, or am I better off just buying a
diff amp?
again, thanks for all your help.
--- In , cobalt <Christophert@s...>
wrote:
>
>
> Ryan wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the encouragement cobalt.
> >
> > I went and checked out the bullet - it is really really nice.
> > Basically brand new. He threw in a multivox "1st wave" amp also.
>
> That's a good deal for only $80. Congrats! Multivox amps were
> manufactured by Premier, which is the same company that
manufactured my
> spring outboard.
>
>
> > Now, this amp has a reverb knob on it, and a distortion and reverb
> > hookup in the back. Would I want to get an independant reverb unit
> > and hook it up?
>
> That depends on what you think of the built-in one, really. Does it
> create the tone you wanted? It's personal taste, and it's really
your
> call to make. I have no idea what your setup sounds like. Crank the
> reverb and see if it gets wet enough for you.
>
> Apart from taking the thing apart to see how it's built, you can
easily
> find out if your reverb is a spring reverb by giving the side of
the amp
> a kick while it's running. If it's a spring reverb, you'll get a
> clattering electronic wooshing sound from the agitated springs.
>
>
>
> > Also, the bullet is a hardtail, but supposedly I could get a
whammy
> > bar installed. Would that help?
>
> Having a whammy bar isn't entirely nessecary, but you'll be unable
to do
> chord bends without one.
>
> Retrofitting a hardtail with a trem unit is pretty hard - Fender
tremolo
> units go all the way through the body and anchor to a series of
springs
> mounted in the back, thusly:
>
>
>
> It's not something I would attempt.
>
> On the other hand... you CAN buy new guitar bodies. There are
several
> places online which will sell you a pre-routed body in either
painted,
> or unpainted form. If, after you've run with the hardtail for
awhile,
> you find yourself really jonesing for a trem unit, you can always
swap
> the body out.
>
> Or, alternately, I believe a Bullet strat with trem unit is only a
> little over $100 - This may be cheaper than buying a new body and a
new
> trem bridge, would save you the hassle of assembling it yourself,
and
> you can *never* have too many guitars. Check music stores in your
area,
> and see what kind of price ranges they offer.
>
>
> > I will fool around with it today and try that little modification
you
> > suggested. Thanks for the help!
>
> Cool deal. Glad to be of service..
>
> -c*
Hi Ryan,
If your Bullet has a hard tail and you want to modify it, you can instal
a Jazzmaster/Jaguar trem plate. This will allow you to make less holes
in the body. I did such a mod on an SG copy and had it done by a
woodcraftsman. He made the hole where the endplate fits in and I
installed the rest. I used a Jaguar used endplate and a Jazzmaster
bridge. I only had to check the the measurments, but that was it.
This trem unit alows you to go smoother on the tremolo. I really lik
ethe mod, it gives my SG copy a surfy way of playing.
I paid about $20 for the tailpiece and used a Bridge that I had left.
Since the bullets body is thich enough it wouldn't be a problem.
Kind regards,
Jerry S. from Belgium
What do you guys think about the Danelectro Spring King for reverb?
Could I use this with my regular amp? How does it get hooked up
(guitar->springking->amp or guitar->amp<-springking)? The back of the
amp has a two hookups labeled as follows:
Foot switch:
Reverb
Distortion
--- In , "Jerry" <jerry.soetewey@b...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> If your Bullet has a hard tail and you want to modify it, you can
instal
> a Jazzmaster/Jaguar trem plate. This will allow you to make less
holes
> in the body. I did such a mod on an SG copy and had it done by a
> woodcraftsman. He made the hole where the endplate fits in and I
> installed the rest. I used a Jaguar used endplate and a Jazzmaster
> bridge. I only had to check the the measurments, but that was it.
>
> This trem unit alows you to go smoother on the tremolo. I really lik
> ethe mod, it gives my SG copy a surfy way of playing.
> I paid about $20 for the tailpiece and used a Bridge that I had
left.
>
> Since the bullets body is thich enough it wouldn't be a problem.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jerry S. from Belgium
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cobalt [mailto:]
...
>
> A bullet strat should be fine. Traditionally, the guitar of choice is a
> Fender Jaguar - but the strat is also an excellent surf guitar. Dick
> Dale, the father of surf music, plays one. I also play one.
I don't know if I would go so far as to say the traditional surf guitar is
the Jaguar. I don't think there is one. If you flip through a book like Bob
Dalley's _Surfin'_Guitars_ you see more Strats than Jags or Jazzmasters. I
think only the rich kids got the Jags & JM's. You also see lots of
Silvertone & Danelectros with the occassional Mosrite. I would guess that
there are more Jazzmaster players than Jaguar players amongst the 3rd wave
surf bands.
> The heart of a spring reverb unit is a long metal box, with springs
> stretched inside from one end to the other. The guitar's electrical
> signal is amplified, and sent through these springs, causing them to
> become magnetised. As they are magnetically attracted to each other,
> they begin to "bounce" and cause a reverberation in the electrical
> signal as they interfere with each other's magnetic fields. When a
> reverb of this type is cranked up to full power, the springs bounce
> quite fiercely, giving the outcoming signal a splashy, wet sound - the
> sound usually associated with surf bands:
Not quite. Some of the guitar's signal is sent to a transducer, which is a
thingy that converts electrical energy to mechanical energy. The transducer
is used to wiggle the springs via mechanical means. A transducer at the
other end of the springs then converts the mechanical energy of the springs
back into electrical energy. That signal is then amplified and mixed back
into original signal according to your 3 knob settings on a standard Fender
Unit. True, anytime there is current running through a wire there is a
magnetic field, but that effect here is negligible compared to the
transducer action.
BN
Your amp may need a footswitch to enable the built-in reverb and/or
distortion. Maybe thats why you say your reverb doesn't work. Those jacks on
the back of your amp are probably where you plug in a footswitch to turn
off/on those built-in effects. I'm not familiar with that amp so I can't say
for sure.
The usual way to play through a guitar pedal is guitar->pedal(s)->amp. Some
modern amps have effects loops which allow you to insert effects at
different points in the signal path.
If you are just starting out, get a cheap guitar with a whammy bar and you
can probably live with your amps built-in reverb for the time being.
Good luck!
BN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:25 PM
> To:
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Hello - Newbie Here
>
>
> What do you guys think about the Danelectro Spring King for reverb?
>
> Could I use this with my regular amp? How does it get hooked up
> (guitar->springking->amp or guitar->amp<-springking)? The back of the
> amp has a two hookups labeled as follows:
>
> Foot switch:
> Reverb
> Distortion
>
>
> --- In , "Jerry" <jerry.soetewey@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > If your Bullet has a hard tail and you want to modify it, you can
> instal
> > a Jazzmaster/Jaguar trem plate. This will allow you to make less
> holes
> > in the body. I did such a mod on an SG copy and had it done by a
> > woodcraftsman. He made the hole where the endplate fits in and I
> > installed the rest. I used a Jaguar used endplate and a Jazzmaster
> > bridge. I only had to check the the measurments, but that was it.
> >
> > This trem unit alows you to go smoother on the tremolo. I really lik
> > ethe mod, it gives my SG copy a surfy way of playing.
> > I paid about $20 for the tailpiece and used a Bridge that I had
> left.
> >
> > Since the bullets body is thich enough it wouldn't be a problem.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Jerry S. from Belgium
>
I've got a spring king. I only use it for practice and noodling at
home. If you plan to gig, hold out for a fender unit. Don't get me
wrong, the sping king is pretty cool, but I don't think I'd ever gig
with it. It won't ever sound quite like the real thing. Close, but not
quite a perfect replacement. But, any reverb is better than none if
you're playing surf.
You can use it with any amp (guitar->springking->amp).
Rick
Halibuts/Deoras
--- Ryan <> wrote:
> What do you guys think about the Danelectro Spring King for reverb?
>
> Could I use this with my regular amp? How does it get hooked up
> (guitar->springking->amp or guitar->amp<-springking)? The back of the
>
> amp has a two hookups labeled as follows:
>
> Foot switch:
> Reverb
> Distortion
>
>
> --- In , "Jerry" <jerry.soetewey@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > If your Bullet has a hard tail and you want to modify it, you can
> instal
> > a Jazzmaster/Jaguar trem plate. This will allow you to make less
> holes
> > in the body. I did such a mod on an SG copy and had it done by a
> > woodcraftsman. He made the hole where the endplate fits in and I
> > installed the rest. I used a Jaguar used endplate and a Jazzmaster
> > bridge. I only had to check the the measurments, but that was it.
> >
> > This trem unit alows you to go smoother on the tremolo. I really
> lik
> > ethe mod, it gives my SG copy a surfy way of playing.
> > I paid about $20 for the tailpiece and used a Bridge that I had
> left.
> >
> > Since the bullets body is thich enough it wouldn't be a problem.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Jerry S. from Belgium
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> (me, my strat, and my reverb tank)
Mmmm.... surfy. Yum yum.
--
Malcolm <<-- not a signature
"They should know they're the Grateful Dead now." -- Phil
"It's never too late to be up-to-date" -- Dan Hicks
"My clock loses time like there's no tomorrow" -- Malcolm
> or am I better off just buying a
> diff amp?
Go to a music store and check out the Fender Frontman R or Bullet 15 DSP.
Good sounds for minimum cash. If you get into this in a big way, you'll have
to spend all your money on gear anyway. :)
--
Malcolm <<-- not a signature
"They should know they're the Grateful Dead now." -- Phil
"It's never too late to be up-to-date" -- Dan Hicks
"My clock loses time like there's no tomorrow" -- Malcolm
