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Hi everybody,
Check out some pictures I posted under the folder "Danny's 3 piece set". I just
received my
'66 Dual Showman and a '64 reverb unit this week. I've been building a 15"
tone-ring
cabinet that I also just completed to go with the Showman. You can see some
pictures of it
under construction and the finished product.
Interesting recent topic of insulation in the cabinet as I was just wondering
about that
myself. I used acoustical egg-crate on all 4 sides and back as someone suggested
to me,
but now I'm thinking maybe I should pull it and compare the sound.
Attn: Bruce - that's a Jensen Neo speaker, It sounds real good. I had it next to
a JBLD130F
and I thought it held it's own.
Here's my question: I plugged in my Showman last night along side my '65 Pro
reverb. I
found that the Pro was actually louder at lower settings of the volume knob. It
did break
up earlier, but I didn't notice an appreciable difference between the 40 watts
and 85 watts.
I was expecting the Showman to blow my eardrums once I reached the upper end,
It was
loud, but not monster loud.
Any thoughts?
Try pointing the speaker cabinet at your head!
Having been there for the initial part of this test (the new tone ring v.
the old tone ring) I agree the sounds were essentially the same. The old
tone ring cab has the fiberglass bats on the sides and back.
We also compared the Dual Showman to a brownface Showman, and both had
similar total output, so there's nothing wrong with the DS amp.
I remember reading somewhere that the difference between 40 watts and 85
watts is something like 3db, not necessarily obvious to the ears. A big
difference comes from the head room, where the 85 watt amp stays cleaner at
the higher volume levels.
Also, I've found that a 15" speaker has much more clarity on the bottom end
than 12"s. Play the openning verse of Misirlou, or, say, Hava Nagila, on a
Showman and a Twin Reverb and you can hear much more definition to the notes
on the Showman.
Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: "sheckysgotreverb" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:18 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] 3 piece set and Showman question
> Hi everybody,
>
> Check out some pictures I posted under the folder "Danny's 3 piece set". I
just received my
> '66 Dual Showman and a '64 reverb unit this week. I've been building a 15"
tone-ring
> cabinet that I also just completed to go with the Showman. You can see
some pictures of it
> under construction and the finished product.
>
> Interesting recent topic of insulation in the cabinet as I was just
wondering about that
> myself. I used acoustical egg-crate on all 4 sides and back as someone
suggested to me,
> but now I'm thinking maybe I should pull it and compare the sound.
>
> Attn: Bruce - that's a Jensen Neo speaker, It sounds real good. I had it
next to a JBLD130F
> and I thought it held it's own.
>
> Here's my question: I plugged in my Showman last night along side my '65
Pro reverb. I
> found that the Pro was actually louder at lower settings of the volume
knob. It did break
> up earlier, but I didn't notice an appreciable difference between the 40
watts and 85 watts.
> I was expecting the Showman to blow my eardrums once I reached the upper
end, It was
> loud, but not monster loud.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
3dB SHOULD make all the difference ... I think 6dB is as a rule of
thumb "twice as loud" - but of course, that means as little as "6dB"
anyway, I think it is in the speakers, not all speakers are equally
efficient. I have a pair of neo 12's and a pair of D140F's, and the
NEos are WAY more efficient and in themselves break up less easy.
WR
--- In , "Mel Waldorf" <mwaldorf@...>
wrote:
>
> Try pointing the speaker cabinet at your head!
>
> Having been there for the initial part of this test (the new tone
ring v.
> the old tone ring) I agree the sounds were essentially the same.
The old
> tone ring cab has the fiberglass bats on the sides and back.
>
> We also compared the Dual Showman to a brownface Showman, and both
had
> similar total output, so there's nothing wrong with the DS amp.
>
> I remember reading somewhere that the difference between 40 watts
and 85
> watts is something like 3db, not necessarily obvious to the ears.
A big
> difference comes from the head room, where the 85 watt amp stays
cleaner at
> the higher volume levels.
>
> Also, I've found that a 15" speaker has much more clarity on the
bottom end
> than 12"s. Play the openning verse of Misirlou, or, say, Hava
Nagila, on a
> Showman and a Twin Reverb and you can hear much more definition to
the notes
> on the Showman.
>
> Mel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sheckysgotreverb" <snydr@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:18 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] 3 piece set and Showman question
>
>
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > Check out some pictures I posted under the folder "Danny's 3
piece set". I
> just received my
> > '66 Dual Showman and a '64 reverb unit this week. I've been
building a 15"
> tone-ring
> > cabinet that I also just completed to go with the Showman. You
can see
> some pictures of it
> > under construction and the finished product.
> >
> > Interesting recent topic of insulation in the cabinet as I was
just
> wondering about that
> > myself. I used acoustical egg-crate on all 4 sides and back as
someone
> suggested to me,
> > but now I'm thinking maybe I should pull it and compare the sound.
> >
> > Attn: Bruce - that's a Jensen Neo speaker, It sounds real good. I
had it
> next to a JBLD130F
> > and I thought it held it's own.
> >
> > Here's my question: I plugged in my Showman last night along side
my '65
> Pro reverb. I
> > found that the Pro was actually louder at lower settings of the
volume
> knob. It did break
> > up earlier, but I didn't notice an appreciable difference between
the 40
> watts and 85 watts.
> > I was expecting the Showman to blow my eardrums once I reached
the upper
> end, It was
> > loud, but not monster loud.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
As a matter of fact when you speak about power rating (and sound is a power
rating) 3 db is twice as much.
When you speak about voltage rating ( the signal level of a recording for
instance ) 6 db is twice as much.
i know it is complicated, just take a look at
au/~jw/dB.html to be more confused
A 100 W amp is twice as much as a 10W amp, using the same speaker.
Roland Bettenville
-------Oorspronkelijk bericht-------
Van: mono_tones_1
Datum: 02/19/06 09:14:37
Aan:
Onderwerp: [SurfGuitar101] Re: 3 piece set and Showman question
3dB SHOULD make all the difference ... I think 6dB is as a rule of
thumb "twice as loud" - but of course, that means as little as "6dB"
anyway, I think it is in the speakers, not all speakers are equally
efficient. I have a pair of neo 12's and a pair of D140F's, and the
NEos are WAY more efficient and in themselves break up less easy.
WR
--- In , "Mel Waldorf" <mwaldorf@...>
wrote:
>
> Try pointing the speaker cabinet at your head!
>
> Having been there for the initial part of this test (the new tone
ring v.
> the old tone ring) I agree the sounds were essentially the same.
The old
> tone ring cab has the fiberglass bats on the sides and back.
>
> We also compared the Dual Showman to a brownface Showman, and both
had
> similar total output, so there's nothing wrong with the DS amp.
>
> I remember reading somewhere that the difference between 40 watts
and 85
> watts is something like 3db, not necessarily obvious to the ears.
A big
> difference comes from the head room, where the 85 watt amp stays
cleaner at
> the higher volume levels.
>
> Also, I've found that a 15" speaker has much more clarity on the
bottom end
> than 12"s. Play the openning verse of Misirlou, or, say, Hava
Nagila, on a
> Showman and a Twin Reverb and you can hear much more definition to
the notes
> on the Showman.
>
> Mel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sheckysgotreverb" <snydr@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:18 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] 3 piece set and Showman question
>
>
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > Check out some pictures I posted under the folder "Danny's 3
piece set". I
> just received my
> > '66 Dual Showman and a '64 reverb unit this week. I've been
building a 15"
> tone-ring
> > cabinet that I also just completed to go with the Showman. You
can see
> some pictures of it
> > under construction and the finished product.
> >
> > Interesting recent topic of insulation in the cabinet as I was
just
> wondering about that
> > myself. I used acoustical egg-crate on all 4 sides and back as
someone
> suggested to me,
> > but now I'm thinking maybe I should pull it and compare the sound.
> >
> > Attn: Bruce - that's a Jensen Neo speaker, It sounds real good. I
had it
> next to a JBLD130F
> > and I thought it held it's own.
> >
> > Here's my question: I plugged in my Showman last night along side
my '65
> Pro reverb. I
> > found that the Pro was actually louder at lower settings of the
volume
> knob. It did break
> > up earlier, but I didn't notice an appreciable difference between
the 40
> watts and 85 watts.
> > I was expecting the Showman to blow my eardrums once I reached
the upper
> end, It was
> > loud, but not monster loud.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
..
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am not sure whether this has been pointed out recently and if it has I
apologize.
There is a difference in Showmans (Showmen?) between a "Dual" and a "Single"
other than the number and size of speakers. You can't assume that all
Showman heads are "Dual". The only difference is in the output transformer.
The Dual has a 125A29A and a 4 ohm output impedance and the single has a
125A30A with 8 ohm output impedance. An 8 ohm speaker on a 4 ohm output
tap will give you reduced volume as you are experiencing. Just as a 4 ohm
speaker on an 8 ohm tap will (on a tube amp only, the output impedance is
too high to double the power as on an SS amp.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Doug,
I was aware of the impedance difference between single and dual
Showman. I was told by the seller of the amp who sells both kinds and
builds speaker cabs that the actual difference in sound level would be
minimal. Mel and I hooked both our 15" cabs in parallel to the amp and
indeed noticed no appreciable difference in volume.
Danny
On Feb 19, 2006, at 7:35 AM, Doug Forbes wrote:
> I am not sure whether this has been pointed out recently and if it has
> I
> apologize.
>
>
>
> There is a difference in Showmans (Showmen?) between a "Dual" and a
> "Single"
> other than the number and size of speakers. You can't assume that all
> Showman heads are "Dual". The only difference is in the output
> transformer.
> The Dual has a 125A29A and a 4 ohm output impedance and the single
> has a
> 125A30A with 8 ohm output impedance. An 8 ohm speaker on a 4 ohm
> output
> tap will give you reduced volume as you are experiencing. Just as a 4
> ohm
> speaker on an 8 ohm tap will (on a tube amp only, the output
> impedance is
> too high to double the power as on an SS amp.)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Guitar music theory
> Stringed instruments
> Guitar music book
> Guitar sheet music
> Guitar music sheets
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>
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>
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> Â
> ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Â
> Â
> ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
Try swapping the tubes around as in check the Showman to see what driver tube
is in it. A 12AX7 will give considerably more volume in the driver stage than
will the 12AT7 which is probably in there.....and the numbers on the knobs
really don't mean a hill of beans. Most of the guys that have tried my
converted twin reverbs/dual showman reverb heads have all agreed that these
amps have more gain and a noticable volume increase (on the knobs) than do
actual Showman heads....this is probably due to more stages of gain with the
reverb circuit and Leo's continual tweaking. He seemed to keep uping the
voltages in the preamp sections as time went on. But you don't get something
for nothing as the actual Showman heads are extremely smooth and clean
sounding....I have a '65 bassman head that for all practical purposes is as
loud as anything we have lying around with 4-6L6's......figure. Have your
Showman head tweaked by someone who knows them and loves 'em and enjoy!!!
Oh yeah, and one other thing.....I have run across two old Fender amps that
just didn't seem to get with the program no matter what.....These two were
suffering from "parasitc ocillation". One I fixed by moving around the leads
in the amp and the other required changing out the circuit board.....yeah that
one sucked......the board had absorbed moisture and was a nightmare.... ed wrote: Hi Doug,
I was aware of the impedance difference between single and dual
Showman. I was told by the seller of the amp who sells both kinds and
builds speaker cabs that the actual difference in sound level would be
minimal. Mel and I hooked both our 15" cabs in parallel to the amp and
indeed noticed no appreciable difference in volume.
Danny
On Feb 19, 2006, at 7:35 AM, Doug Forbes wrote:
> I am not sure whether this has been pointed out recently and if it has
> I
> apologize.
>
>
>
> There is a difference in Showmans (Showmen?) between a "Dual" and a
> "Single"
> other than the number and size of speakers. You can't assume that all
> Showman heads are "Dual". The only difference is in the output
> transformer.
> The Dual has a 125A29A and a 4 ohm output impedance and the single
> has a
> 125A30A with 8 ohm output impedance. An 8 ohm speaker on a 4 ohm
> output
> tap will give you reduced volume as you are experiencing. Just as a 4
> ohm
> speaker on an 8 ohm tap will (on a tube amp only, the output
> impedance is
> too high to double the power as on an SS amp.)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Guitar music theory
> Stringed instruments
> Guitar music book
> Guitar sheet music
> Guitar music sheets
> Guitar technique
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> ⪠ Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> Â
> ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Â
> Â
> ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service.
>
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
SPONSORED LINKS
Guitar music theory
Stringed instruments Guitar music book
Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets
Guitar technique
---------------------------------
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Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danny and the Gang,
Nice setup!
The short synopsis: Try standing about 15 or 20 feet out from the cab(s) while
playing. Remember, what you hear on stage may or may not be what the audience
hears out in front. If you're getting the tone you want, is the audience also
hearing the same thing?
The long answer: is too long. <g> So this'll also be short and sweet.
Rather than participate in any wars over power (in watts), loudness, dB, SPL's,
etc, I'll just point everyone to a particular website. Not only does the page
lay things out in an easy-to-understand manner, but the author is correct in his
statements. (Dissenters should check out any Basic Electronics textbook.)
No need for me to repeat what that site says, here's the link:
<> When you're done with that, go up
to the top level and read everything else on the site - you won't be sorry. <g>
Two final thoughts: Don't take the seller's word for it, check that output
transformer! Make sure you aren't mis-matching the amp with the speaker for
longer than necessary - no need to take chances with your tone or the amp's
longevity, right? And what Eddie says is nuts on - take the amp to a tech who
knows what he's doing, and get 'er tuned up. Tell him/her what you want out of
the thing, and chances are good that you'll be happy with that investment.
'Nuff said.
unlunf
--- In Yahoogroups SurfGuitar 1010, Danny Snyder wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> Check out some pictures I posted under the folder "Danny's 3 piece set". I
just
> received my '66 Dual Showman and a '64 reverb unit this week. I've been
building
> a 15" tone-ring cabinet that I also just completed to go with the Showman. You
> can see some pictures of it under construction and the finished product.
>
> Interesting recent topic of insulation in the cabinet as I was just wondering
> about that myself. I used acoustical egg-crate on all 4 sides and back as
> someone suggested to me, but now I'm thinking maybe I should pull it and
compare
> the sound.
>
> Attn: Bruce - that's a Jensen Neo speaker, It sounds real good. I had it next
to
> a JBLD130F and I thought it held it's own.
>
> Here's my question: I plugged in my Showman last night along side my '65 Pro
> reverb. I found that the Pro was actually louder at lower settings of the
volume
> knob. It did break up earlier, but I didn't notice an appreciable difference
> between the 40 watts and 85 watts. I was expecting the Showman to blow my
eardrums
> once I reached the upper end, it was loud, but not monster loud.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
Thanks for the link and the advice, Unlunf. That was informative and
interesting.
Danny
On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:42 PM, unlunf wrote:
