Menu
Well, I'm still gonna reserve judgement on the sound, wish you
would have invited me over to hear it closer, wasn't thinking about
that on Sat. I think so far from what I'v e heard it's 80 to 90%
But If you were to play a gig with other surf bands.
I bet some would probably( not to your face) be talkin' smack about
your little gizmo ontop of your cab.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Jeff <bigtikidude@...> wrote: You can bet if you had the
> little Crate amp ontop. You'd be getting a good razzin' for sure.
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
> Yeah, but just remember, in Surf-Music, it's all about the
SOUND. For several months now, at our gigs, I have asked
the "purist" surf-music fans at our gigs, for ANY and all criticism
regarding my sound using the Crate Power Block. The ONLY feedback
given by several dozen people, at several different shows, has been
POSITIVE. And one of those giving the "thumbs-up" to my sound, is a
dude who makes money crafting and selling vintage-style Tube Amps!
>
> Within Longboard Ranch, the guys were blown away at how "trad"
I'm able to sound with the Crate, and Loyd Davis, who should need NO
introduction in this group, is teetering on the edge of buying one
for himself, but I suspect he's secretly afraid of being razzed, or
he'd already have done so!
>
> In my case, if I bring one of my old monster Fender amp heads to
a gig, it's more for nostalgia's sake than because it makes any
material difference in my sound.
>
> Bruce D
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@>
> wrote:
> >
> > If I'm playing a casual , it's true what ol' Bruce sez, I'm goin'
> with an amp I can carry in one hand and the guitar in the other.
The
> Crate is a godsend. If I'm playing the HB Pier, there are usually
> folks around who can help with the heavy lifting of the Fender tube
> gear (I won't mention any names but their initials are Big Tiki
> Dude).
> > -Marty
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mel Waldorf
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> >
> >
> > A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit.
> Ritchie Allen
> > got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the
recording
> board.
> >
> > That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I
> can. I
> > really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the
> VibroVerb bias
> > modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-
ring
> cabinet is
> > a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels
on
> the
> > speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much
> better on the
> > back than the comparible combo amp.
> >
> > As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a
> speaker
> > cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you
> could make it
> > fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
> >
> > Mel
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bruce duncan" <wetreverb@>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> >
> >
> > > As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
> > >
> > > I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much
as
> the actual
> > SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've
> been
> > listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first
> serious guitar
> > was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt
> 1950's tube
> > monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
> > >
> > > Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs
than
> I care to
> > count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter
> weight, and more
> > ease of transport.
> > >
> > > I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic
> Sciatica, in
> > essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady
> Chiropractic care for
> > 7 years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back
> had been
> > abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm
> helping him
> > fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
> > >
> > > Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty
> Tippens, of The
> > Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented
> guitarists, in
> > terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded
> Super & Twin
> > Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the
> introduction
> > of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both
have
> used them
> > at gigs since then.
> > >
> > > Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the
more
> > trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no
> accident! When
> > I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and
> ended up
> > buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and
weight
> of a 5 Lb
> > box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid
State
> amps I've
> > EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold.
Loading
> a set of
> > the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old
> Bandmaster Cab,
> > my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs
> before.
> > >
> > > I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since
July
> 2005. I
> > always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience,
> for ANY
> > critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular,
> my sound on
> > lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig
> this last
> > Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington
> Beach), the
> > only comments coming from this segment of the audience have
been
> super
> > positive and complimentary.
> > >
> > > Other players have every right to their opinions and
> preferences, and
> > God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of
> trad-surf
> > alive.
> > >
> > > We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in
the
> 60's, 70's
> > and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe
me,
> Sciatica
> > AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
> > >
> > > Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in
my
> footsteps
> > health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be
> better served
> > by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of
an
> open mind.
> > Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I
was!
> > >
> > > Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept
innovating
> until the
> > week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at
G
> & L Music,
> > cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the
> original "vintage"
> > Fender units.
> > >
> > > The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in
the
> Leo Fender
> > tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because
it's
> nearly
> > $800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've
> yet needed at
> > ANY of our gigs.
> > >
> > > IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked
out
> by more
> > musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
> > "old-school". They should be judged based on their
performance.
> Their
> > lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and
> thousands of
> > dollars spent in treatment!
> > >
> > > Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
> > >
> > > Bruce D
> > >
> > > unlunf <unlunf@> wrote:
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> > > No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> > > new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
> > >
> > > ~!~!~!~!~
> > > Jacob,
> > >
> > > Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> > > you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> > > would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> > > I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> > > important here. What is important here is the underlying
> > > train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> > > way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
> > >
> > > Oh.
> > >
> > > Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> > > Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> > > in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> > > He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> > > vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> > > local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> > > Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> > > the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> > > Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> > > the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> > > between Fender and all the also-rans?
> > >
> > > For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> > > road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> > > But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> > > 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> > > By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> > > same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> > > who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came
afterwards.
> > > That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> > > simple.
> > >
> > > No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> > > had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> > > But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> > > incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> > > At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> > > of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> > > times over the last 6 decades?
> > >
> > > I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> > > it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> > > inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> > > about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> > > the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> > > aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> > > past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> > > know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> > > and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> > > for the future of surf music.
> > >
> > > Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> > > material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> > > upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> > > Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> > > ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> > > sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> > > to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> > > new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> > > generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
> > >
> > > Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> > > to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
> > >
> > >
> > > unlunf
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> <jacobdobner@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty
old
> now.
> > > > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed
before
> my
> > > > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > > > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo.
Leo
> > > > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > > > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > > > nap time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > > > <supertwangreverb@
> > > >>
> > > >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> > > >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts
> will
> > > >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around
> when
> > > >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Bill
> > > >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit for
archived
> messages,
> > bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar
> music book
> > Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> > > Bruce D
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
> > > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
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> > > Visit for
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> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
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> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Guitar music theory Stringed instruments
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> music book
> > Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar
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> >
> >
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> >
> > a.. Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> SPONSORED LINKS
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> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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>
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> "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> Bruce D
>
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>
Jeff,
The Kirkpatricks, who were sitting right next to you and Tiki Tena, had NO
problem hearing us, and Rich kept telling me how much he was digging my sound.
I figured you were close enough to hear us at least equally well.
Bruce D
Jeff <> wrote:
Well, I'm still gonna reserve judgement on the sound, wish you
would have invited me over to hear it closer, wasn't thinking about
that on Sat. I think so far from what I'v e heard it's 80 to 90%
But If you were to play a gig with other surf bands.
I bet some would probably( not to your face) be talkin' smack about
your little gizmo ontop of your cab.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Jeff <bigtikidude@...> wrote: You can bet if you had the
> little Crate amp ontop. You'd be getting a good razzin' for sure.
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
> Yeah, but just remember, in Surf-Music, it's all about the
SOUND. For several months now, at our gigs, I have asked
the "purist" surf-music fans at our gigs, for ANY and all criticism
regarding my sound using the Crate Power Block. The ONLY feedback
given by several dozen people, at several different shows, has been
POSITIVE. And one of those giving the "thumbs-up" to my sound, is a
dude who makes money crafting and selling vintage-style Tube Amps!
>
> Within Longboard Ranch, the guys were blown away at how "trad"
I'm able to sound with the Crate, and Loyd Davis, who should need NO
introduction in this group, is teetering on the edge of buying one
for himself, but I suspect he's secretly afraid of being razzed, or
he'd already have done so!
>
> In my case, if I bring one of my old monster Fender amp heads to
a gig, it's more for nostalgia's sake than because it makes any
material difference in my sound.
>
> Bruce D
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@>
> wrote:
> >
> > If I'm playing a casual , it's true what ol' Bruce sez, I'm goin'
> with an amp I can carry in one hand and the guitar in the other.
The
> Crate is a godsend. If I'm playing the HB Pier, there are usually
> folks around who can help with the heavy lifting of the Fender tube
> gear (I won't mention any names but their initials are Big Tiki
> Dude).
> > -Marty
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mel Waldorf
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> >
> >
> > A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit.
> Ritchie Allen
> > got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the
recording
> board.
> >
> > That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I
> can. I
> > really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the
> VibroVerb bias
> > modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-
ring
> cabinet is
> > a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels
on
> the
> > speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much
> better on the
> > back than the comparible combo amp.
> >
> > As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a
> speaker
> > cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you
> could make it
> > fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
> >
> > Mel
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "bruce duncan" <wetreverb@>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> >
> >
> > > As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
> > >
> > > I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much
as
> the actual
> > SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've
> been
> > listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first
> serious guitar
> > was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt
> 1950's tube
> > monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
> > >
> > > Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs
than
> I care to
> > count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter
> weight, and more
> > ease of transport.
> > >
> > > I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic
> Sciatica, in
> > essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady
> Chiropractic care for
> > 7 years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back
> had been
> > abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm
> helping him
> > fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
> > >
> > > Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty
> Tippens, of The
> > Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented
> guitarists, in
> > terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded
> Super & Twin
> > Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the
> introduction
> > of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both
have
> used them
> > at gigs since then.
> > >
> > > Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the
more
> > trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no
> accident! When
> > I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and
> ended up
> > buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and
weight
> of a 5 Lb
> > box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid
State
> amps I've
> > EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold.
Loading
> a set of
> > the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old
> Bandmaster Cab,
> > my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs
> before.
> > >
> > > I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since
July
> 2005. I
> > always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience,
> for ANY
> > critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular,
> my sound on
> > lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig
> this last
> > Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington
> Beach), the
> > only comments coming from this segment of the audience have
been
> super
> > positive and complimentary.
> > >
> > > Other players have every right to their opinions and
> preferences, and
> > God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of
> trad-surf
> > alive.
> > >
> > > We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in
the
> 60's, 70's
> > and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe
me,
> Sciatica
> > AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
> > >
> > > Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in
my
> footsteps
> > health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be
> better served
> > by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of
an
> open mind.
> > Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I
was!
> > >
> > > Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept
innovating
> until the
> > week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at
G
> & L Music,
> > cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the
> original "vintage"
> > Fender units.
> > >
> > > The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in
the
> Leo Fender
> > tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because
it's
> nearly
> > $800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've
> yet needed at
> > ANY of our gigs.
> > >
> > > IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked
out
> by more
> > musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
> > "old-school". They should be judged based on their
performance.
> Their
> > lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and
> thousands of
> > dollars spent in treatment!
> > >
> > > Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
> > >
> > > Bruce D
> > >
> > > unlunf <unlunf@> wrote:
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> > > No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> > > new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
> > >
> > > ~!~!~!~!~
> > > Jacob,
> > >
> > > Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> > > you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> > > would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> > > I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> > > important here. What is important here is the underlying
> > > train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> > > way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
> > >
> > > Oh.
> > >
> > > Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> > > Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> > > in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> > > He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> > > vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> > > local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> > > Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> > > the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> > > Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> > > the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> > > between Fender and all the also-rans?
> > >
> > > For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> > > road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> > > But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> > > 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> > > By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> > > same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> > > who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came
afterwards.
> > > That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> > > simple.
> > >
> > > No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> > > had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> > > But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> > > incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> > > At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> > > of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> > > times over the last 6 decades?
> > >
> > > I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> > > it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> > > inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> > > about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> > > the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> > > aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> > > past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> > > know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> > > and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> > > for the future of surf music.
> > >
> > > Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> > > material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> > > upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> > > Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> > > ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> > > sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> > > to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> > > new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> > > generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
> > >
> > > Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> > > to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
> > >
> > >
> > > unlunf
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> <jacobdobner@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty
old
> now.
> > > > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed
before
> my
> > > > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > > > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo.
Leo
> > > > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > > > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > > > nap time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > > > <supertwangreverb@
> > > >>
> > > >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> > > >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts
> will
> > > >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around
> when
> > > >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Bill
> > > >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > > "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> > > Bruce D
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