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I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music industry is
hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy, online radio and podcasting.
While people are still listening to music as much as they did before, people
just aren't buying it. I just read about how the owner of Crypt Records has
stopped releasing CD's. Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to.
Same with Norton and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double
Crown's not doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of shutting
down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to me is the fact that
there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga, Reverborama and Surf Guitar 101
lists that dig surf/instro music, yet only a small percentage actually buys our
releases. Do our releases suck? Do you already have enough surf/instro in your
collection? What should we be releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep
going, definitely, but not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year. I'm
interested in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists, or via e-mail
to:
Thanks,
Sean
Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
www.dblcrown.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sean,
This is Sad but understandable news about some of these other
labels. I truely hope that you hang in there and do well, or better.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't buy every surf cd that
comes out. But I'd like to do my best to help by buying as much as I
can. Not to brag but in almost 10 years I have about 1000 surf
cd's. I know a guy that has been into it for a bit longer and only
has 75 or so. I try to tell him about new stuff, and he doesn't
care. Other people may be fans and might buy it, but might not
know about it. I know there is tons of stuff out there that I have
no idea about.
As for downloading or stealling songs. I think that's a shame.
I for one like to have real cd's or vinyl. and only settle for
cdr's if the original is no longer availble. Also I think that
the quality of downlaoded songs is bad. But some people may be fine
with that. I say the only thing that may help is to just try to
get the word out there more. Or make downloadable versions
available, but still press small amounts for us living in the dark
ages, that still like to hold the real thing in our hands.
Best bumper sticker I saw recently said, everytime you download
a song ,God kills a kitten. I believe it!!! :-)
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , "Double Crown Records"
<records@...> wrote:
>
> I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music
industry is hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy,
online radio and podcasting. While people are still listening to
music as much as they did before, people just aren't buying it. I
just read about how the owner of Crypt Records has stopped releasing
CD's. Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to. Same with
Norton and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double
Crown's not doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of
shutting down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to
me is the fact that there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga,
Reverborama and Surf Guitar 101 lists that dig surf/instro music, yet
only a small percentage actually buys our releases. Do our releases
suck? Do you already have enough surf/instro in your collection? What
should we be releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep going,
definitely, but not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year.
I'm interested in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists,
or via e-mail to: records@...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean
> Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> www.dblcrown.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
--- In , "Double Crown Records"
<records@...> wrote:
>
> I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music
industry is hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy,
online radio and podcasting. While people are still listening to
music as much as they did before, people just aren't buying it. I
just read about how the owner of Crypt Records has stopped releasing
CD's. Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to. Same with
Norton and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double
Crown's not doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of
shutting down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to
me is the fact that there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga,
Reverborama and Surf Guitar 101 lists that dig surf/instro music, yet
only a small percentage actually buys our releases. Do our releases
suck? Do you already have enough surf/instro in your collection? What
should we be releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep going,
definitely, but not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year.
I'm interested in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists,
or via e-mail to: records@...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean
> Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> www.dblcrown.com
>
>
SEAN
stay the course
you and your label release some totally adveturous stuff
and the quality is top shelf
my Program Director Dan Coleman and I are gonna jump in the mix soon
with a COMPILATION to kick-start a label I am calling LIFEGUARD
RECORDS
will be reaching out to artists soon to lauch this
and will be contacting you for your input and guidance
analysis....yes, sales are down across-the-board in the industry,
especially to younger music buyers; but there is still an audience
for CD's
for instance, after a strong gig, bands get approached by audience
members to buy merchandise; I don't think of 'podcasts' as 'merch',
though in a sense, they are
but bands that play live raise some extra $$$ doing this, gas and
tolls, meals to/from the gigs, etc
most surf musicians I suspect will agree that if you are doing this
to make a living (and not doing anything else)...well, unless you are
Dick Dale, Los St-Jax, and a not-that-large list of other artists --
well, you better have a 'day job' to cover your ass, your rent, your
family, etc
I havent made a red cent for the radio side of what I do (but that's
not gonna be forever....some exciting things are brewing), but the
live shows are starting to bring in some $$, and more than the usual
pocket change it used to be....each gig at OTTO's has been more $$$
rewarding....I'm on to something there
but the costs of touring today are killer; the merch can help defray
a little of the expense, no?
bottom line: the surf genre, the fans here and other yahoo groups,
and MySpace, etc., still dig their CDs
now me, I love my vinyl tool nothing like holding a full sized record
album abd its jacket/sleeve, if you ask me!!
don't abandon ship Sean, hold on, keep at it
we luv U for it
Unsteady Freddie
I just don't have the money to buy much. I also do not pirate. I also
listen to a lot of different genres and I cannot focus all my
resources into surf music or the related genres. Something I have
been getting into a lot these days are indie bands. They tend to all
put LPs out so I buy the LP and download the MP3s so I can have a CD
and large LP to display and collect. Indie LPs and CDs tend to be $10
so the price is quite welcoming. I also tend to try to buy a lot of
the older surf releases. Again most of those are on LPs. There is
something special about have LPs. My favs are Jim Messina and the
Jesters and my Jon and the Nightriders Liveat the Whiskey. Also I like
to buy modern 7"s.
--- In , "Double Crown Records"
<records@...> wrote:
>
> I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music
industry is hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy, online
radio and podcasting. While people are still listening to music as
much as they did before, people just aren't buying it. I just read
about how the owner of Crypt Records has stopped releasing CD's.
Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to. Same with Norton
and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double Crown's not
doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of shutting
down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to me is the
fact that there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga, Reverborama
and Surf Guitar 101 lists that dig surf/instro music, yet only a small
percentage actually buys our releases. Do our releases suck? Do you
already have enough surf/instro in your collection? What should we be
releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep going, definitely, but
not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year. I'm interested
in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists, or via e-mail
to: records@...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean
> Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> www.dblcrown.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Yeah, I also read about the Crypt releases going down but the owner
Tim Warren is soon open up a record shop in New York so obviously he
believes things aren't totally bad when it comes to selling physical
records. Anyone interested can check out the post here:
I noticed that you have a Double Crown advertising banner up at the
GaragePunk.com forum boards which I think is a great move. I always
believed that the best way to make the surf music genre to grow is to
try to attract people from related genres such as garage music and
rockabilly.
Keep it up!
/ Klas
--- In , "Double Crown Records"
<records@...> wrote:
>
> I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music
industry is hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy,
online radio and podcasting. While people are still listening to
music as much as they did before, people just aren't buying it. I
just read about how the owner of Crypt Records has stopped releasing
CD's. Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to. Same with
Norton and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double
Crown's not doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of
shutting down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to
me is the fact that there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga,
Reverborama and Surf Guitar 101 lists that dig surf/instro music, yet
only a small percentage actually buys our releases. Do our releases
suck? Do you already have enough surf/instro in your collection? What
should we be releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep going,
definitely, but not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year.
I'm interested in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists,
or via e-mail to: records@...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean
> Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> www.dblcrown.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I dig vinyl too, but it just doesn't sell in the US anymore. I'm
really surprised when I hear that bands/labels sell 300-500 7"s - you
could do that in the 90's, but it's hard to do that now. I've toyed
with the idea of offering a free CD-R with each Double Crown 7"
purchase that would have the songs on there. So you'd get the vinyl,
the artwork and a CD that you could play in your CD player or put on
your Ipod. I might also look into adding our vinyl releases to Itunes.
Thanks,
Sean
Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
www.dblcrown.com
--- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@...>
wrote:
>
> I just don't have the money to buy much. I also do not pirate. I also
> listen to a lot of different genres and I cannot focus all my
> resources into surf music or the related genres. Something I have
> been getting into a lot these days are indie bands. They tend to all
> put LPs out so I buy the LP and download the MP3s so I can have a CD
> and large LP to display and collect. Indie LPs and CDs tend to be $10
> so the price is quite welcoming. I also tend to try to buy a lot of
> the older surf releases. Again most of those are on LPs. There is
> something special about have LPs. My favs are Jim Messina and the
> Jesters and my Jon and the Nightriders Liveat the Whiskey. Also I like
> to buy modern 7"s.
>
> --- In , "Double Crown Records"
> <records@> wrote:
> >
> > I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music
> industry is hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy, online
> radio and podcasting. While people are still listening to music as
> much as they did before, people just aren't buying it. I just read
> about how the owner of Crypt Records has stopped releasing CD's.
> Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to. Same with Norton
> and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double Crown's not
> doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of shutting
> down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to me is the
> fact that there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga, Reverborama
> and Surf Guitar 101 lists that dig surf/instro music, yet only a small
> percentage actually buys our releases. Do our releases suck? Do you
> already have enough surf/instro in your collection? What should we be
> releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep going, definitely, but
> not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year. I'm interested
> in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists, or via e-mail
> to: records@
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sean
> > Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> > P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> > www.dblcrown.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Yes, I read that too - it's part of what made me write my original
post yesterday. I'm glad you saw the banner ad on the garagepunk.com
forums - I'm actually working on putting banner ads on a bunch of
different websites. It seems to be working pretty well so far.
Thanks,
Sean
Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
www.dblcrown.com
--- In , "Klas Fjellgren" <surfites@...>
wrote:
>
> Yeah, I also read about the Crypt releases going down but the owner
> Tim Warren is soon open up a record shop in New York so obviously he
> believes things aren't totally bad when it comes to selling physical
> records. Anyone interested can check out the post here:
>
>
>
> I noticed that you have a Double Crown advertising banner up at the
> GaragePunk.com forum boards which I think is a great move. I always
> believed that the best way to make the surf music genre to grow is to
> try to attract people from related genres such as garage music and
> rockabilly.
>
> Keep it up!
>
> / Klas
>
>
> --- In , "Double Crown Records"
> <records@> wrote:
> >
> > I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music
> industry is hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy,
> online radio and podcasting. While people are still listening to
> music as much as they did before, people just aren't buying it. I
> just read about how the owner of Crypt Records has stopped releasing
> CD's. Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to. Same with
> Norton and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double
> Crown's not doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of
> shutting down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to
> me is the fact that there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga,
> Reverborama and Surf Guitar 101 lists that dig surf/instro music, yet
> only a small percentage actually buys our releases. Do our releases
> suck? Do you already have enough surf/instro in your collection? What
> should we be releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep going,
> definitely, but not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year.
> I'm interested in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists,
> or via e-mail to: records@
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sean
> > Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> > P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> > www.dblcrown.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Another thing about the 90s, I've noticed is some bands would cover
songs that NO ONE would touch these days, because they are SO over
done. Squad Car is on the Finks album and a SPs album. Now that song
seems kinda like an untouchable when it comes to covering for an
album. People at our shows who aren't surf nazis enjoy Squad Car, but
we would have never thought of including it on our first CD(check for
our limited edition which does tho haha).
I think the market has just been flooded with surf bands. There are
more surf bands today then ever before.
Bill
--- In , "contrec" <records@...> wrote:
>
> I dig vinyl too, but it just doesn't sell in the US anymore. I'm
> really surprised when I hear that bands/labels sell 300-500 7"s - you
> could do that in the 90's, but it's hard to do that now. I've toyed
> with the idea of offering a free CD-R with each Double Crown 7"
> purchase that would have the songs on there. So you'd get the vinyl,
> the artwork and a CD that you could play in your CD player or put on
> your Ipod. I might also look into adding our vinyl releases to Itunes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean
> Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> www.dblcrown.com
>
>
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I just don't have the money to buy much. I also do not pirate. I also
> > listen to a lot of different genres and I cannot focus all my
> > resources into surf music or the related genres. Something I have
> > been getting into a lot these days are indie bands. They tend to all
> > put LPs out so I buy the LP and download the MP3s so I can have a CD
> > and large LP to display and collect. Indie LPs and CDs tend to be $10
> > so the price is quite welcoming. I also tend to try to buy a lot of
> > the older surf releases. Again most of those are on LPs. There is
> > something special about have LPs. My favs are Jim Messina and the
> > Jesters and my Jon and the Nightriders Liveat the Whiskey. Also I like
> > to buy modern 7"s.
> >
> > --- In , "Double Crown Records"
> > <records@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just thought I'd throw this out. We all know that the music
> > industry is hurting these days, due to file sharing, CD piracy, online
> > radio and podcasting. While people are still listening to music as
> > much as they did before, people just aren't buying it. I just read
> > about how the owner of Crypt Records has stopped releasing CD's.
> > Estrus no longer puts out stuff the way they used to. Same with Norton
> > and other similar labels. What's the future? I know Double Crown's not
> > doing as good as it used to, although I have no plans of shutting
> > down. Is the future online downloads? What's also curious to me is the
> > fact that there are hundreds of people on the Cowabunga, Reverborama
> > and Surf Guitar 101 lists that dig surf/instro music, yet only a small
> > percentage actually buys our releases. Do our releases suck? Do you
> > already have enough surf/instro in your collection? What should we be
> > releasing? Our sales are good enough to keep going, definitely, but
> > not enough to release more that 3 or 4 CD's per year. I'm interested
> > in hearing feedback on all this, either on the lists, or via e-mail
> > to: records@
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Sean
> > > Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> > > P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> > > www.dblcrown.com
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
> I just don't have the money to buy much. I also do not pirate. I also
> listen to a lot of different genres and I cannot focus all my
> resources into surf music or the related genres. Something I have
> been getting into a lot these days are indie bands. They tend to all
> put LPs out so I buy the LP and download the MP3s so I can have a CD
> and large LP to display and collect. Indie LPs and CDs tend to be $10
> so the price is quite welcoming. I also tend to try to buy a lot of
> the older surf releases. Again most of those are on LPs. There is
> something special about have LPs. My favs are Jim Messina and the
> Jesters and my Jon and the Nightriders Liveat the Whiskey. Also I like
> to buy modern 7"s.
I love collecting vinyl and really love listening to it. Maybe guys
in Jacob's and my age range like lugging big amps around, and
listening to vinyl because unlike the older guys we didn't grow up
with it being the norm. I do remember in 3rd grade my music teacher
telling all of us about this new thing called a CD, and records would
be no more. Personally I think brand new vinyl on the first play
sounds better than a CD. There's too much stuff out there to buy.
Bill
Sean, great idea of giving a digital version with the vinyl. Perhaps
you can just give some type of credit for iTunes so one could download
the same songs for free. Should be a lot cheaper than including a cd-
r.
Danny Snyder
Yes, that's a factor too - there are definitely more bands today
playing surf/instro music than any time before. At the same time, the
number of people listening to it is lower now than in the 90's or
60's, so you've got more bands trying to get a piece of a smaller pie.
I think this has to do with the internet (a lot of people think you
can still make it big through exposure on the internet) and the fact
that it's cheaper to produce CD's these days (about $1/CD, not
including recording and artwork costs). I'd never tell a band not to
do a self-released CD, and many of them are great, but the fact that
there's more surf/instro CD's out there lowers the sales for releases
that come from labels, plus there's a greater chance of people getting
burned on a poor surf CD and giving up on the genre entirely. As for
covers, yes, there are definitely some that just don't need to be
covered anymore, but at the same time, there are bands that can still
manage to breathe new life into these old chestnuts.
Sean
Double Crown Records
www.dblcrown.com
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@...> wrote:
>
> Another thing about the 90s, I've noticed is some bands would cover
> songs that NO ONE would touch these days, because they are SO over
> done. Squad Car is on the Finks album and a SPs album. Now that song
> seems kinda like an untouchable when it comes to covering for an
> album. People at our shows who aren't surf nazis enjoy Squad Car, but
> we would have never thought of including it on our first CD(check for
> our limited edition which does tho haha).
>
> I think the market has just been flooded with surf bands. There are
> more surf bands today then ever before.
>
> Bill
>
>
Actually including a CD-R is a lot cheaper, cuz you have to pay
Itunes. Plus it's easier for the buyer, who may or may not have an
Itunes account.
Sean
Double Crown Records
www.dblcrown.com
--- In , "sheckysgotreverb" <snydr@...>
wrote:
>
> Sean, great idea of giving a digital version with the vinyl. Perhaps
> you can just give some type of credit for iTunes so one could download
> the same songs for free. Should be a lot cheaper than including a cd-
> r.
>
> Danny Snyder
>
Bill,
> Maybe guys in Jacob's and my age range like lugging big
> amps around, and listening to vinyl because unlike the
> older guys we didn't grow up with it being the norm.
Good point, Bill. I hadn't thought of it from that angle
at all.
unlunf
Bill,
> I think the market has just been flooded with surf bands.
> There are more surf bands today then ever before.
My definition of 'flooded' would be: when we instrumentalists
are the norm, and former teen throbs that growled like they
were gargling rocks, or mumbled like they were on 'ludes, when
they become the "popularity wannabe's" - that's when we'll know
there are too many surf bands on the market!
Oh, wait..... what did Eddie say? "You can never have to much
surf music", wasn't it? Well, I gotta agree with that one.
Errrr, never mind. <g>
unlunf
This is an interesting discussion (and one that didn't turn onto one liners
exchange like a lot of the long ones do).
About the cd-r version in the vinyl, that's what we did in the Astroglides
for the first album, and for the second one the vinyl version had a real cd
in it. For the 3rd one we ran out of money to make vinyl... I guess it helps
attract another small precentage of people, but it seems to me, the more
time passes, the less people appreciate the big artwork format of vinyl.
Sean, I suggest you press smaller numbers, but only if it's cheaper.
Sometimes doing 500 cds is the same cost as doing a 1000. I think potential
sales figure right now is no more than 300 copies.
I'm not an iTunes user (I think mp3s sound bad and I can't bring myself to
pay for them), but since I'm in a minority, maybe that's the way to go.
I also noticed that a lot of newer stuff that I buy just doesn't blow my
mind. I did dig the latest Continental compilation, some great stuff there.
Phantom Frank is someting I would buy...
I think this is all reflected in the number of fans that go to shows. If you
see 15 people that actually come to most shows, maybe 5 or 7 would buy an
album, and that's about it. The exposure you get here on the surf music
lists is not enough to generate a good income. Cross marketing in other
internet forums is good, but as an extension of that I think you should
invest in bands that not only play regularly, but also don't limit
themselves to playing just with surf bands. Then maybe you'll be able to get
the gig sales of garage punk or rockabilly fans that saw this ONE surf band
at a gig and were impressed enough to buy the cd.
Not to be anti-social here, but these 3-4 surf band gigs are fun for us surf
bands, for the 10-20 hardcore fans, and that's about it.
Also, try to invest in the bands that go to Europe. They usually have a
success there in gig attendance, that might translate into cd sales.
Yes, the present is grim, we could only pray for another "Pulp Fiction"...
Ran
----- Original Message -----
From: "contrec" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 2:21 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: The Future Of Surf / Instro Music & CD Releases
> I dig vinyl too, but it just doesn't sell in the US anymore. I'm
> really surprised when I hear that bands/labels sell 300-500 7"s - you
> could do that in the 90's, but it's hard to do that now. I've toyed
> with the idea of offering a free CD-R with each Double Crown 7"
> purchase that would have the songs on there. So you'd get the vinyl,
> the artwork and a CD that you could play in your CD player or put on
> your Ipod. I might also look into adding our vinyl releases to Itunes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean
> Double Crown Records / The Continental Magazine
> P.O. Box 4336 - Bellingham, WA 98227-4336
> www.dblcrown.com
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