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This is what we have all been waiting for. A real Jazzmaster . . .
Why would they name it the Jazzmaster? Can they not think of names? Or
do they not know the Jazzmaster ever existed. The Jaguar Bass is now
going to be available in the US. And the Bass VI is getting a custom
shop release.
It will probably be more affordable than the Japanese RIs.
Jacob,
250 watts at only 7+ lbs? Count me in!! Matched with
a 'real' Jazzmaster, how can you go wrong? <g>
Hey, wait, there's more! Click up a few, and check out
the matching speaker box - 1 12", handles all the power,
and weighs just 17 lbs. Whoa!
They're even reissuing the '63 Reverb Unit. No indication
if it's printed circuit or hand-wired, and it's using the
more modern 6V6, but it can't be all bad, right? <g>
unlunf
--- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@...> wrote:
>
> This is what we have all been waiting for. A real Jazzmaster . . .
>
>
> Why would they name it the Jazzmaster? Can they not think of names? Or
> do they not know the Jazzmaster ever existed. The Jaguar Bass is now
> going to be available in the US. And the Bass VI is getting a custom
> shop release.
>
> It will probably be more affordable than the Japanese RIs.
>
I am young. I am from the use the heavy gear while you still can
school of thought.
I wish I could justify spending more money on gear and such. It really
doesn't seem like a good idea to buy gear I won't use. I could own
tons of guitars but I would always use the one that I favored.
--- In , "unlunf" <unlunf@...> wrote:
>
> Jacob,
>
> 250 watts at only 7+ lbs? Count me in!! Matched with
> a 'real' Jazzmaster, how can you go wrong? <g>
>
> Hey, wait, there's more! Click up a few, and check out
> the matching speaker box - 1 12", handles all the power,
> and weighs just 17 lbs. Whoa!
>
> They're even reissuing the '63 Reverb Unit. No indication
> if it's printed circuit or hand-wired, and it's using the
> more modern 6V6, but it can't be all bad, right? <g>
>
>
> unlunf
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@>
wrote:
> >
> > This is what we have all been waiting for. A real Jazzmaster . . .
> >
> >
> > Why would they name it the Jazzmaster? Can they not think of names? Or
> > do they not know the Jazzmaster ever existed. The Jaguar Bass is now
> > going to be available in the US. And the Bass VI is getting a custom
> > shop release.
> >
> > It will probably be more affordable than the Japanese RIs.
> >
>
--- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@...>
wrote:
>
> This is what we have all been waiting for. A real Jazzmaster . . .
>
I guess it makes sense for the working musician who has to lug his gear
around all the time. plus it save room in the car.
get a cocktail drumkit with it and be the smallest surf band ever!
WR
> I am young. I am from the use the heavy gear while you still can
> school of thought.
I agree with you Jacob. I also think the older gear just looks cooler
than stuff like that "new jazzmaster". Maybe that goes with old age ;)
Bill Aqua
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
Bill and Jacob,
> I also think the older gear just looks cooler than stuff
> like that "new jazzmaster".
Whoa, hold on there, Bobbalouie! I just cruised down to my
local American Music this afternoon, and scoped this baby out.
I mean to tell you, it is not only Small with a capital S, but
it's actually very good looking. The case is not all metal,
it has some wood strips interleaved into reliefs cut into the
case material. They look like good quality bits of birch or
ash, but with the too-small an area to check the grain, I could
be wrong. A high-gloss natural finish sets well with the matte
black of the rest of the case.
As to sound, I didn't check that out, it is a bit costly for
me at the moment (almost a kilobuck, MSRP). Now, if it does
turn out to sound as good as the old-timey stuff, then can you
imagine pulling up to the stage and unloading your amp... outta
your pocket??? And then stashing it next to the space heater
your bass player is using, and still crushing his nonnies with
a twist of the wrist?
In words of one syllable, I love it! <lol>
unlunf
--- In , "supertwangreverb" <supertwangreverb@...>
wrote:
>
>
>> I am young. I am from the use the heavy gear while you still can
>> school of thought.
>
> I agree with you Jacob. I also think the older gear just looks
> cooler than stuff like that "new jazzmaster". Maybe that goes
> with old age ;)
>
> Bill Aqua
> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
>
> Whoa, hold on there, Bobbalouie! I just cruised down to my
> local American Music this afternoon, and scoped this baby out.
> I mean to tell you, it is not only Small with a capital S, but
> it's actually very good looking. The case is not all metal,
> it has some wood strips interleaved into reliefs cut into the
> case material. They look like good quality bits of birch or
> ash, but with the too-small an area to check the grain, I could
> be wrong. A high-gloss natural finish sets well with the matte
> black of the rest of the case.
>
> As to sound, I didn't check that out, it is a bit costly for
> me at the moment (almost a kilobuck, MSRP). Now, if it does
> turn out to sound as good as the old-timey stuff, then can you
> imagine pulling up to the stage and unloading your amp... outta
> your pocket??? And then stashing it next to the space heater
> your bass player is using, and still crushing his nonnies with
> a twist of the wrist?
>
> In words of one syllable, I love it! <lol>
Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case. I don't
know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will continue to
sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when Leo was alive...
well, that's just sacreligious! :)
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old now. Just
turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my eyes. Bill
is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social security. Bill one
problem with your statement about Leo. Leo died in 1991. There is a
lot of crap from that period. For example, I was in first grade and I
know that I did not like nap time.
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@.
>
> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case. I don't
> know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will continue to
> sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when Leo was alive...
> well, that's just sacreligious! :)
>
> Bill
> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
>
Bill,
Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
No fights will be started over the appearance of the
new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
~!~!~!~!~
Jacob,
Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
important here. What is important here is the underlying
train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
Oh.
Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
between Fender and all the also-rans?
For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
simple.
No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
times over the last 6 decades?
I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
for the future of surf music.
Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
material will always need to be played and re-played for the
upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
new players start doing that before the rest of us first
generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
unlunf
--- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@...> wrote:
>
> Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old now.
> Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my
> eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> nap time.
>
>
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@
>>
>> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
>> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will
>> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when
>> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
>>
>> Bill
>> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
>>
>
--- In , "unlunf" <unlunf@...> wrote:
> Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
Is it more important that new surf music 'evolve' or that it just be
good? My personal take is to play whatever you want, trad or
progressive, but just make it GOOD! Progressive music that is self-
conciously so usually isn't very good, IMHO. Trad surf will be just
fine if it doesn't 'evolve' one further iota as long as it has good
songs, good energy and good musicianship. After all, who here would
rather listen to Kenny G than Louis Armstrong? Kenny G is the result
of evolution of jazz (as is 'free jazz', which is almost as
unlistenable) - is jazz better off now? Same thing with, for
example, heavy metal - would you rather listen to Slipknot and Limp
Bizkit, or Iron Maiden and Led Zeppelin? Let's let each person do
their thing and not worry about it - it'll all take care of itself.
Some will preserve the traditional surf and some will push it in
different directions, and we can all buy whichever albums we want.
My 2 cents on a never-ending, always-recurring topic from hell...
Ivan
I'm not against progressing surf music. In my band we write our own
songs as well as do covers. I'm also a big supporter of the old
equipment, but I believe that because we are writting new songs we are
progressing in some way. I think where the big argument comes down
at is. When does a band that has progressed to a certain extent no
longer actually playing "surf" music? We can argue about this for the
rest of our lives, but I'd rather go write a new song.
I think Jacob's main point was look at what Fender is now calling the
Jazzmaster, and there was a hint of sarcasm to his post, but there was
some truth under it, the Jazzmaster and Jaguar have both been the more
outcast brothers to the Stratocaster and Telecaster. So I think I can
see where Jacob was coming from.
Unlunf you mentioned Satan's Pilgrims in the group of bands to evolve
by sticking their heads out of the sand. What I love so much about
the Pilgrims is that they have, for the most part kept the "older"
sounds fresh and new. I haven't seen them live, but in all the
pictures it looks like the guitars, and amps are for the most part
vintage. So, being "adamant" about the old gear doesn't mean your
limiting your creative musical output possiblities. Artistically, I'd
like to hear someone write some good music using older amps, then the
50 or 60 year old in a hawaiian shirt playing Squad Car one some solid
state amp because it sounds new. :)
Bill
--- In , "unlunf" <unlunf@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
>
> ~!~!~!~!~
> Jacob,
>
> Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> important here. What is important here is the underlying
> train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
>
> Oh.
>
> Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> between Fender and all the also-rans?
>
> For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> simple.
>
> No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> times over the last 6 decades?
>
> I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> for the future of surf music.
>
> Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
>
> Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
>
>
> unlunf
>
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@>
wrote:
> >
> > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old now.
> > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my
> > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > nap time.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > <supertwangreverb@
> >>
> >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will
> >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when
> >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> >>
> >> Bill
> >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> >>
> >
>
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@...> wrote:
>
> I think Jacob's main point was look at what Fender is now calling the
> Jazzmaster, and there was a hint of sarcasm to his post, but there was
> some truth under it, the Jazzmaster and Jaguar have both been the more
> outcast brothers to the Stratocaster and Telecaster.
some observations
- It seems to me the "new" jazzmaster is actually aimed at, indeed
jazzplayers. who in turn have completly differnet expectations from an
amp than the average surf player. fwiw and wtfc.
- stupidly enough, that other new amp is called supersonic, which also
was a squier offset model some years ago. appearantly this is Fender's
new amp naming concept: stick an old offset waist guitar model's name
on it. expect to see a Jaguar amp and a bass IV amp in the near future.
(btw, that jazzmaster amp is one ugly mofo. I'm sure it's handy, and it
might sound good, but for christ's sake, put it out of sight on stage.)
WR
As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much as the actual SOUND
my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've been listening to
instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first serious guitar was a '64 "L"
series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt 1950's tube monster. I agree
100% with unlunf.
Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs than I care to count,
I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter weight, and more ease of
transport.
I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic Sciatica, in
essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady Chiropractic care for 7
years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back had been abused by
decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm helping him fund his kids'
college educations and his Lexus payments!
Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty Tippens, of The
Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented guitarists, in
terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded Super & Twin
Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the introduction of
the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both have used them at gigs
since then.
Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the more trad-sounding
of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no accident! When I heard about
Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and ended up buying one. 150 Watts
RMS in a package about the size and weight of a 5 Lb box of See's Chocolates,
and one of the best sounding Solid State amps I've EVER played, with a price tag
of $200.00 and I was sold. Loading a set of the new Jensen Neodymium
ultra-light weight 12's in my old Bandmaster Cab, my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs
total, versus almost 120 Lbs before.
I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since July 2005. I always
make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience, for ANY critical comment
at all regarding our sound, and in particular, my sound on lead guitar, and in
the past seven months, (including our gig this last Saturday, at the Pacific
Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington Beach), the only comments coming from this
segment of the audience have been super positive and complimentary.
Other players have every right to their opinions and preferences, and God love
'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of trad-surf alive.
We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in the 60's, 70's and
80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe me, Sciatica AIN'T no
picnic!!!!!
Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in my footsteps
health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be better served by
viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of an open mind. Who
knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I was!
Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept innovating until the week
he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at G & L Music, cause
many guitarists to prefer those models over the original "vintage" Fender units.
The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in the Leo Fender
tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because it's nearly $800
LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've yet needed at ANY of
our gigs.
IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked out by more
musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being "old-school".
They should be judged based on their performance. Their lighter weight might
save your back from agonizing pain and thousands of dollars spent in treatment!
Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
Bruce D
unlunf <> wrote:
Bill,
Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
No fights will be started over the appearance of the
new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
~!~!~!~!~
Jacob,
Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
important here. What is important here is the underlying
train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
Oh.
Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
between Fender and all the also-rans?
For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
simple.
No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
times over the last 6 decades?
I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
for the future of surf music.
Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
material will always need to be played and re-played for the
upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
new players start doing that before the rest of us first
generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
unlunf
--- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@...> wrote:
>
> Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old now.
> Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my
> eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> nap time.
>
>
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@
>>
>> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
>> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will
>> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when
>> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
>>
>> Bill
>> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
>>
>
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit. Ritchie Allen
got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording board.
That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I can. I
really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the VibroVerb bias
modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring cabinet is
a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on the
speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much better on the
back than the comparible combo amp.
As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a speaker
cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you could make it
fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce duncan" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
>
> I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much as the actual
SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've been
listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first serious guitar
was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt 1950's tube
monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
>
> Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs than I care to
count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter weight, and more
ease of transport.
>
> I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic Sciatica, in
essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady Chiropractic care for
7 years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back had been
abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm helping him
fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
>
> Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty Tippens, of The
Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented guitarists, in
terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded Super & Twin
Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the introduction
of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both have used them
at gigs since then.
>
> Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the more
trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no accident! When
I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and ended up
buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and weight of a 5 Lb
box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid State amps I've
EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold. Loading a set of
the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old Bandmaster Cab,
my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs before.
>
> I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since July 2005. I
always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience, for ANY
critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular, my sound on
lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig this last
Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington Beach), the
only comments coming from this segment of the audience have been super
positive and complimentary.
>
> Other players have every right to their opinions and preferences, and
God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of trad-surf
alive.
>
> We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in the 60's, 70's
and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe me, Sciatica
AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
>
> Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in my footsteps
health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be better served
by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of an open mind.
Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I was!
>
> Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept innovating until the
week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at G & L Music,
cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the original "vintage"
Fender units.
>
> The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in the Leo Fender
tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because it's nearly
$800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've yet needed at
ANY of our gigs.
>
> IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked out by more
musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
"old-school". They should be judged based on their performance. Their
lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and thousands of
dollars spent in treatment!
>
> Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
>
> Bruce D
>
> unlunf <> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
>
> ~!~!~!~!~
> Jacob,
>
> Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> important here. What is important here is the underlying
> train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
>
> Oh.
>
> Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> between Fender and all the also-rans?
>
> For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> simple.
>
> No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> times over the last 6 decades?
>
> I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> for the future of surf music.
>
> Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
>
> Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
>
>
> unlunf
>
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@...>
wrote:
> >
> > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old now.
> > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my
> > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > nap time.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > <supertwangreverb@
> >>
> >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will
> >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when
> >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> >>
> >> Bill
> >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book
Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> Bruce D
>
> ---------------------------------
> Brings words and photos together (easily) with
> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
I agree with you Mel, the Reverb Tank is most important. Unlike you
I'm not lugging a Showman around, but the Bandmaster is kinda heavy.
Like you said, the piggyback is easier to carry around. My Super
Reverb is a dog compared to the Bandmaster, because it's a combo.
Another thing... I'm always getting asked by people who want to carry
my stuff in. Sure, there's a trust issue here, don't give your stuff
to just anyone. But, a lot of friends often offer to help... You'd
be surprised how many non-musician friends who'd like to be part of a
band offer their hand in carrying stuff, setting up etc. Even friends
who don't want to help will often carry stuff for a beer or two.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit. Ritchie
Allen
> got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording board.
>
> That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I can. I
> really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the
VibroVerb bias
> modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring
cabinet is
> a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on the
> speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much better
on the
> back than the comparible combo amp.
>
> As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a speaker
> cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you could
make it
> fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
>
> Mel
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bruce duncan" <wetreverb@...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
>
>
> > As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
> >
> > I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much as the
actual
> SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've been
> listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first serious
guitar
> was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt
1950's tube
> monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
> >
> > Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs than I
care to
> count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter weight,
and more
> ease of transport.
> >
> > I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic
Sciatica, in
> essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady Chiropractic
care for
> 7 years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back had been
> abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm
helping him
> fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
> >
> > Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty Tippens,
of The
> Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented
guitarists, in
> terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded Super &
Twin
> Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the
introduction
> of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both have
used them
> at gigs since then.
> >
> > Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the more
> trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no
accident! When
> I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and ended up
> buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and weight of
a 5 Lb
> box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid State
amps I've
> EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold. Loading a
set of
> the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old
Bandmaster Cab,
> my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs before.
> >
> > I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since July
2005. I
> always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience, for ANY
> critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular, my
sound on
> lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig this last
> Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington
Beach), the
> only comments coming from this segment of the audience have been super
> positive and complimentary.
> >
> > Other players have every right to their opinions and
preferences, and
> God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of trad-surf
> alive.
> >
> > We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in the
60's, 70's
> and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe me,
Sciatica
> AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
> >
> > Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in my
footsteps
> health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be better
served
> by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of an
open mind.
> Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I was!
> >
> > Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept innovating
until the
> week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at G & L
Music,
> cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the original "vintage"
> Fender units.
> >
> > The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in the Leo
Fender
> tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because it's nearly
> $800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've yet
needed at
> ANY of our gigs.
> >
> > IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked out by more
> musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
> "old-school". They should be judged based on their performance. Their
> lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and thousands of
> dollars spent in treatment!
> >
> > Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
> >
> > Bruce D
> >
> > unlunf <unlunf@...> wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> > No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> > new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
> >
> > ~!~!~!~!~
> > Jacob,
> >
> > Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> > you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> > would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> > I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> > important here. What is important here is the underlying
> > train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> > way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
> >
> > Oh.
> >
> > Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> > Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> > in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> > He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> > vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> > local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> > Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> > the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> > Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> > the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> > between Fender and all the also-rans?
> >
> > For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> > road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> > But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> > 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> > By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> > same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> > who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> > That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> > simple.
> >
> > No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> > had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> > But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> > incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> > At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> > of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> > times over the last 6 decades?
> >
> > I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> > it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> > inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> > about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> > the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> > aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> > past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> > know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> > and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> > for the future of surf music.
> >
> > Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> > material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> > upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> > Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> > ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> > sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> > to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> > new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> > generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
> >
> > Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> > to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
> >
> >
> > unlunf
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old now.
> > > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my
> > > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> > > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > > nap time.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > > <supertwangreverb@
> > >>
> > >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> > >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will
> > >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when
> > >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> > >>
> > >> Bill
> > >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book
> Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> > Bruce D
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
> > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages,
> bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
If I'm playing a casual , it's true what ol' Bruce sez, I'm goin' with an amp I
can carry in one hand and the guitar in the other. The Crate is a godsend. If
I'm playing the HB Pier, there are usually folks around who can help with the
heavy lifting of the Fender tube gear (I won't mention any names but their
initials are Big Tiki Dude).
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Mel Waldorf
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit. Ritchie Allen
got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording board.
That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I can. I
really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the VibroVerb bias
modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring cabinet is
a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on the
speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much better on the
back than the comparible combo amp.
As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a speaker
cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you could make it
fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce duncan" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Fender Jazzmaster
> As always, Ivan's 2-cents is right on the money!
>
> I'm a "trad-surf" guitarist, NOT in terms of gear as much as the actual
SOUND my band and I make. To me our Sound is everything. I've been
listening to instro/surf music since age 8 in 1960, my first serious guitar
was a '64 "L" series Jazzmaster, and my first amp was a 30-watt 1950's tube
monster. I agree 100% with unlunf.
>
> Having toted 100+ lbs of rig to more rehearsals and gigs than I care to
count, I'm open-minded to gear innovations offering lighter weight, and more
ease of transport.
>
> I have good reason for feeling this way: I suffer chronic Sciatica, in
essence, a bad lower-back, and have been under steady Chiropractic care for
7 years. My chiropractor told me in 1999, that my lower back had been
abused by decades of carrying too much weight around. Now, I'm helping him
fund his kids' college educations and his Lexus payments!
>
> Rob Woolsey, lead guitar of The Detonators, and Marty Tippens, of The
Planktones and The Boardwalkers, are both VERY trad-oriented guitarists, in
terms of their SOUND. Both of them carted around JBL-loaded Super & Twin
Reverbs, and Showmen for many years. But last year, with the introduction
of the Crate Power-Block 150, they each bought one, and both have used them
at gigs since then.
>
> Many who've heard Longboard Ranch, consider us one of the more
trad-sounding of today's crop of surf bands. And that's no accident! When
I heard about Marty and Rob, I checked out the Power Block and ended up
buying one. 150 Watts RMS in a package about the size and weight of a 5 Lb
box of See's Chocolates, and one of the best sounding Solid State amps I've
EVER played, with a price tag of $200.00 and I was sold. Loading a set of
the new Jensen Neodymium ultra-light weight 12's in my old Bandmaster Cab,
my rig now weighs about 40 Lbs total, versus almost 120 Lbs before.
>
> I've been using this rig at every gig we've played since July 2005. I
always make a point of asking the "trad-fans" in the audience, for ANY
critical comment at all regarding our sound, and in particular, my sound on
lead guitar, and in the past seven months, (including our gig this last
Saturday, at the Pacific Shoreline Marathon Expo in Huntington Beach), the
only comments coming from this segment of the audience have been super
positive and complimentary.
>
> Other players have every right to their opinions and preferences, and
God love 'em for wanting to keep the true spirit and sound of trad-surf
alive.
>
> We simply didn't have these lower-weight alternatives in the 60's, 70's
and 80's, so I'm paying the price in my middle-age. Believe me, Sciatica
AIN'T no picnic!!!!!
>
> Younger guitarists who would prefer to avoid following in my footsteps
health-wise (while still keeping their sound real!) might be better served
by viewing these new innovative amps and speakers with more of an open mind.
Who knows? You might be very pleasantly surprised! I know I was!
>
> Unlunf is 100% correct about Leo. Mr. Fender kept innovating until the
week he died. His improvements to the Strat and Tele, done at G & L Music,
cause many guitarists to prefer those models over the original "vintage"
Fender units.
>
> The new Jazzmaster amp sounds like another innovation in the Leo Fender
tradition. I still prefer the Crate Power Block 150 because it's nearly
$800 LESS at retail, and 150 Watts RMS is more power than I've yet needed at
ANY of our gigs.
>
> IMHO these newer amps and speakers deserve to be checked out by more
musicians, and shouldn't be automatically rejected for not being
"old-school". They should be judged based on their performance. Their
lighter weight might save your back from agonizing pain and thousands of
dollars spent in treatment!
>
> Just MY humble 2-cents worth.
>
> Bruce D
>
> unlunf <> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
>
> ~!~!~!~!~
> Jacob,
>
> Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> important here. What is important here is the underlying
> train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
>
> Oh.
>
> Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> between Fender and all the also-rans?
>
> For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> simple.
>
> No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> times over the last 6 decades?
>
> I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> for the future of surf music.
>
> Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
>
> Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
>
>
> unlunf
>
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner" <jacobdobner@...>
wrote:
> >
> > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old now.
> > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my
> > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > nap time.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > <supertwangreverb@
> >>
> >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will
> >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when
> >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> >>
> >> Bill
> >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
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> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> Bruce D
>
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My understanding is that he did not use a reverb tank, or an amp. What
Richie plugged directly into the board was his guitar, and he used
acoustic chamber reverb for effect. This came to be via Jay Graydon, a
studio guitarist and song writer who watched him at work a number of
times, and hasked him this very question.
Phil Dirt
--- In , "Mel Waldorf" <mwaldorf@...> wrote:
>
> A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit.
> Ritchie Allen got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly
> into the recording board.
The one item I insist on keeping in my rig, which IS "Old-School" is my Fender
Tube Reverb Unit. My opinions regarding amp and speakers are one thing, but to
my ear, no-one, and I mean NO-ONE has been able to improve on the original
Fender outboard reverb unit. Further, I have never yet heard a solid-state or
digital modelling reverb that can come close to the real "wet" and "drippy"
sound of muted lower strings played through a real Tube Reverb unit.
Fortunately, the 1960's Fender Reverb Units are already very light-weight, so
there's truly no alternative to them for me.
Bruce D
Mel Waldorf <> wrote:
A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit. Ritchie Allen
got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording board.
That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I can. I
really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the VibroVerb bias
modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring cabinet is
a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on the
speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much better on the
back than the comparible combo amp.
As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a speaker
cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you could make it
fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
Mel
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> When does a band that has progressed to a certain extent no
> longer actually playing "surf" music?
Yeah, that's the question. Reverb laden guitar instrumentals doesn't
necessary make it surf music. Just take a look at Dick Dale today.
Even the man himself claims he's not playing surf music :-D
/ Klas
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@...> wrote:
>
> I'm not against progressing surf music. In my band we write our own
> songs as well as do covers. I'm also a big supporter of the old
> equipment, but I believe that because we are writting new songs we
are
> progressing in some way. I think where the big argument comes down
> at is. When does a band that has progressed to a certain extent no
> longer actually playing "surf" music? We can argue about this for
the
> rest of our lives, but I'd rather go write a new song.
>
> I think Jacob's main point was look at what Fender is now calling
the
> Jazzmaster, and there was a hint of sarcasm to his post, but there
was
> some truth under it, the Jazzmaster and Jaguar have both been the
more
> outcast brothers to the Stratocaster and Telecaster. So I think I
can
> see where Jacob was coming from.
>
> Unlunf you mentioned Satan's Pilgrims in the group of bands to
evolve
> by sticking their heads out of the sand. What I love so much about
> the Pilgrims is that they have, for the most part kept the "older"
> sounds fresh and new. I haven't seen them live, but in all the
> pictures it looks like the guitars, and amps are for the most part
> vintage. So, being "adamant" about the old gear doesn't mean your
> limiting your creative musical output possiblities. Artistically,
I'd
> like to hear someone write some good music using older amps, then
the
> 50 or 60 year old in a hawaiian shirt playing Squad Car one some
solid
> state amp because it sounds new. :)
>
> Bill
>
>
> --- In , "unlunf" <unlunf@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Ah yes, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
> > No fights will be started over the appearance of the
> > new line of Fender amps. At least, not by me. <g>
> >
> > ~!~!~!~!~
> > Jacob,
> >
> > Better check your draft card, my young friend. As
> > you've met me, you know that I'm already on SS, or
> > would be if I so chose. For various financial reasons,
> > I'm delaying for another year, but that's not what's
> > important here. What is important here is the underlying
> > train of thought that says, more or less, "If it ain't the
> > way it was before I was born, then it ain't right."
> >
> > Oh.
> >
> > Well, I guess I'd better not put on my History Professor
> > Hat, and remind you, and many others, that Leo made it
> > in this industry for one reason only - he looked ahead.
> > He cast off what was in the past, and brought about his
> > vision of the future. If one were to trot down to his/her
> > local vintage emporium, they'd see lots of high-priced
> > Fender stuff, right? But just over the other side of
> > the aisle, there's also a boat load of Epiphone, Kay,
> > Alamo, Gibson, Supro, and a ton of other stuff, all from
> > the same era. And what do you think is the main difference
> > between Fender and all the also-rans?
> >
> > For one thing, durability. Fenders were, and still are,
> > road-worthy, almost laughably more so than anything else.
> > But the real reason musicians bought them was the sound.
> > 'Of course', you say. Oh, and how did Leo get that sound?
> > By cramming more power, more tone, more 'vibe', into the
> > same size (or smaller) package as everyone else, both those
> > who came before him, and all the copy-cats who came afterwards.
> > That's the dictionary-definition of 'innovation', pure and
> > simple.
> >
> > No one in his/her right mind will argue that Leo's company
> > had many more misses than they did hits, after he left.
> > But that doesn't mean the the Fender company is absolutely
> > incapable of pulling off yet more miracles of innovation.
> > At least, not to me... do you think that no one else, least
> > of all Fender, can accomplish again what they've done several
> > times over the last 6 decades?
> >
> > I'd be interested in knowing your answer to that. In fact,
> > it kind of surprises me that of all the people who tend to
> > inhabit this group, it's the young ones who are most adamant
> > about 'old stuff' being the only thing possible, and it's
> > the old farts like me who are looking for new possibilities,
> > aren't afraid to experiment, and aren't locked into the
> > past. Perhaps it's because we're musicians first, I don't
> > know. But somehow, the shoe has gotten onto the other foot,
> > and if it stays there, then I don't hold out a lot of hope
> > for the future of surf music.
> >
> > Notice, I didn't say, the history of surf music. The original
> > material will always need to be played and re-played for the
> > upcoming new generations, no doubt about that. But if LATC,
> > Agent Orange, Satan's Pilgrims, and many, many others, are to
> > ever evolve, it won't be due to keeping one's head in the
> > sand, will it. It'll happen because some folks aren't afraid
> > to look ahead. I can only hope that more of the upcoming
> > new players start doing that before the rest of us first
> > generation folks get sucked into the Final Undertow.
> >
> > Believe it don't, that was from the heart, and not intended
> > to start any flame wars. Thanks for bearing with me.
> >
> >
> > unlunf
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course we are going to sacrafice. Granted I am pretty old
now.
> > > Just turned halway to 44. My life practically flashed before my
> > > eyes. Bill is even older than me. 2-4 years closer to social
> > > security. Bill one problem with your statement about Leo. Leo
> > > died in 1991. There is a lot of crap from that period. For
> > > example, I was in first grade and I know that I did not like
> > > nap time.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> > > <supertwangreverb@
> > >>
> > >> Ha, well I guess looks are more of an opinion in this case.
> > >> I don't know about Jacob and the 'Verb. But the Aquanauts will
> > >> continue to sacrifice their backs, and if it wasn't around when
> > >> Leo was alive... well, that's just sacreligious! :)
> > >>
> > >> Bill
> > >> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
Right on guys!!!! I'm with you 100% NOTHING else comes close to a real Fender
outboard reverb unit. The re-issues are GREAT for those on a limited budget.
As a matter of fact, performance wise, the reissue tank is probably the best of
anything that Fender has "reissued" amp wise with the possible exception of the
tweed bassman.....simple circuit.....hard to screw up. Get a second job, if
that's what it takes but when it comes to reverb, never compromise, you'll
never really be happy with anything else...............ed
bruce duncan <> wrote: The one item I insist on keeping in
my rig, which IS "Old-School" is my Fender Tube Reverb Unit. My opinions
regarding amp and speakers are one thing, but to my ear, no-one, and I mean
NO-ONE has been able to improve on the original Fender outboard reverb unit.
Further, I have never yet heard a solid-state or digital modelling reverb that
can come close to the real "wet" and "drippy" sound of muted lower strings
played through a real Tube Reverb unit. Fortunately, the 1960's Fender Reverb
Units are already very light-weight, so there's truly no alternative to them for
me.
Bruce D
Mel Waldorf <> wrote:
A lot of the classic surf sound comes from the Reverb Unit. Ritchie Allen
got a great sound plugging his Reverb directly into the recording board.
That being said, I'm going to haul my Showman Amp as long as I can. I
really amp vibrato, especially the brownface harmonic and the VibroVerb bias
modulating styles. Hard to recreate with a pedal. The tone-ring cabinet is
a bear, but no other speaker cabinet sounds like that. Wheels on the
speaker cab help a whole lot, and the head/cab setup is much better on the
back than the comparible combo amp.
As for a new amp design, how about a flip top that folds into a speaker
cabinet with build in wheels and handle like luggage? If you could make it
fit in the overhead bin on an airplane it would be golden.
Mel
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
SPONSORED LINKS
Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book
Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
---------------------------------
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Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
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