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Has anyone noticed that some blackface Showman heads (so roughly '64'-
'67) have black grille cloth on the front rather than the customary
silver sparkle? For example, there's a Showman head on eBay (the
auction ended on Saturday) like that:
Amp_W0QQitemZ7370080869QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I know that John Blair also has a head like that, and both of these
appear completely stock. I've seen a few more 'black-fronts' on eBay
through the years. My hunch is that these heads date from around '67,
but I can't find any info about them either in the Fender Amps book or
on the net. Anybody know anything about them?
Just curious.
Ivan
how on earth can you tell the cloth is original?
a while ago there was a showman on a local site, complete set, an
(almost) all original black/silver from '61.
the story that went with it was the amp was imported from the US and
immediatly retolexed to black/silver specs by the importing retailer,
appearantly because by the time it arrived here, blonde amps
were 'old', and in black the seller could get better money.
It went for more than I could afford, but not a bad price, something
like E1200 I think.
WR
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone noticed that some blackface Showman heads (so
roughly '64'-
> '67) have black grille cloth on the front rather than the customary
> silver sparkle? For example, there's a Showman head on eBay (the
> auction ended on Saturday) like that:
>
>
> Amp_W0QQitemZ7370080869QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> I know that John Blair also has a head like that, and both of these
> appear completely stock. I've seen a few more 'black-fronts' on
eBay
> through the years. My hunch is that these heads date from
around '67,
> but I can't find any info about them either in the Fender Amps book
or
> on the net. Anybody know anything about them?
>
> Just curious.
> Ivan
>
I have seen a number of the blonde ones painted black and for a long time in the
60's we didn't know that we could get replacement grill cloth from Fender and
ended up using what was available at Olson Electronics.......that was usually a
really crappy Hi-Fi off white or..........black......lots of dirty grills were
painted also......ed
how on earth can you tell the cloth is original?
a while ago there was a showman on a local site, complete set, an
(almost) all original black/silver from '61.
the story that went with it was the amp was imported from the US and
immediatly retolexed to black/silver specs by the importing retailer,
appearantly because by the time it arrived here, blonde amps
were 'old', and in black the seller could get better money.
It went for more than I could afford, but not a bad price, something
like E1200 I think.
WR
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone noticed that some blackface Showman heads (so
roughly '64'-
> '67) have black grille cloth on the front rather than the customary
> silver sparkle? For example, there's a Showman head on eBay (the
> auction ended on Saturday) like that:
>
>
> Amp_W0QQitemZ7370080869QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> I know that John Blair also has a head like that, and both of these
> appear completely stock. I've seen a few more 'black-fronts' on
eBay
> through the years. My hunch is that these heads date from
around '67,
> but I can't find any info about them either in the Fender Amps book
or
> on the net. Anybody know anything about them?
>
> Just curious.
> Ivan
>
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think some of the big Silverface Dual Showman Reverbs had black
grille cloth. I've seen several with the black cloth. Dalibor has one.
I don't know if it is original or not but the only Fenders I've ever
seen with black have been those Dual Showman Reverbs.
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone noticed that some blackface Showman heads (so roughly '64'-
> '67) have black grille cloth on the front rather than the customary
> silver sparkle? For example, there's a Showman head on eBay (the
> auction ended on Saturday) like that:
>
>
> Amp_W0QQitemZ7370080869QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> I know that John Blair also has a head like that, and both of these
> appear completely stock. I've seen a few more 'black-fronts' on eBay
> through the years. My hunch is that these heads date from around '67,
> but I can't find any info about them either in the Fender Amps book or
> on the net. Anybody know anything about them?
>
> Just curious.
> Ivan
>
so, is the group consensus then that the black grille cloth on any
Fender Showman amps, blackface or silverface, is therefore not
original?
I can't be sure that the ones I've seen are original, as somebody
asked. I was simply told by the seller of the eBay amp for which
the auction just ended that he thinks it's original (it looked
original), and John Blair also thought his was original (I think).
Ivan
--- In , John McCorvey
<eddiekatcher@y...> wrote:
>
> I have seen a number of the blonde ones painted black and for a
long time in the 60's we didn't know that we could get replacement
grill cloth from Fender and ended up using what was available at
Olson Electronics.......that was usually a really crappy Hi-Fi off
white or..........black......lots of dirty grills were painted
also......ed
>
> how on earth can you tell the cloth is original?
>
> a while ago there was a showman on a local site, complete set, an
> (almost) all original black/silver from '61.
>
> the story that went with it was the amp was imported from the US
and
> immediatly retolexed to black/silver specs by the importing
retailer,
> appearantly because by the time it arrived here, blonde amps
> were 'old', and in black the seller could get better money.
>
> It went for more than I could afford, but not a bad price,
something
> like E1200 I think.
>
> WR
>
>
> --- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone noticed that some blackface Showman heads (so
> roughly '64'-
> > '67) have black grille cloth on the front rather than the
customary
> > silver sparkle? For example, there's a Showman head on eBay
(the
> > auction ended on Saturday) like that:
> >
> >
> > Amp_W0QQitemZ7370080869QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> > I know that John Blair also has a head like that, and both of
these
> > appear completely stock. I've seen a few more 'black-fronts' on
> eBay
> > through the years. My hunch is that these heads date from
> around '67,
> > but I can't find any info about them either in the Fender Amps
book
> or
> > on the net. Anybody know anything about them?
> >
> > Just curious.
> > Ivan
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Shopping
> Find Great Deals on Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
WR,
> how on earth can you tell the cloth is original?
In simple terms, there is no 'quick and easy' way
to tell, as you've guessed. Some times a small
production run would "escape" from Fender's factory
with the remnants of what was left over in the parts
bins, and Leo (and others, I'm sure) wanted to use
it up, rather than just toss it in the dumpster.
But as most aficiando's will tell you, there is no
definitive answer. All we have to go on now are
catalogs, brochures, posters, album covers, a few
publicity shots, and maybe a handful of amateur
photos from back then.
However, if you're about to buy some older unit,
and the claim of "original grill cloth" makes you
suspicious, there is a way to tell.......
If the backside of the cloth is exposed (like in
many combo amps), you can look underneath the layer
of folded-over material. If you see some holes,
then the original staples have been removed, and
a new cloth has been applied. Obviously, for a
closed-back cab, some disassembly will be required.
<g> Still, if the owner is honest, then he or she
will let you inspect to your heart's content.
Be aware that a few times in my career, I've seen
the cloth installed with some sort of adhesive
applied to back of the baffle board, and the
staples were mounted in the edges of it. My old
Bandmaster was that way, and a '66 Super Reverb
are two amps that I recall seeing this done on.
I can't speak to whether or not the factory did
this, or they were both recovers done by someone
else. AFAIK, the topic has never been addressed
by any book or innerweb forum.
HTH.
unlunf
p.s. Ivan,
There are a couple of Showman heads listed on
< right now, and
they have different colored cloths. Are they any
thing like what you're talking about?
--- In , "mono_tones_1" <rockverb@h...> wrote:
>
> how on earth can you tell the cloth is original?
>
> .....
>
> WR
>
>
> --- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone noticed that some blackface Showman heads (so
>> roughly '64'-'67) have black grille cloth on the front
>> rather than the customary silver sparkle? For example,
>> there's a Showman head on eBay (the auction ended on
>> Saturday) like that:
>>
>>
>> Amp_W0QQitemZ7370080869QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>>
>> I know that John Blair also has a head like that, and both
>> of these appear completely stock. I've seen a few more
>> 'black-fronts' on eBay through the years. My hunch is that
>> these heads date from around '67, but I can't find any info
>> about them either in the Fender Amps book or on the net.
>> Anybody know anything about them?
>>
>> Just curious.
>> Ivan
>
Another clue is the staples themselves. All the '60's stuff I've seen
use fairly large black staples. Re-grilled cab's invariably have the
more modern skinnier silver ones (not to mention that the cloth never
seems as straight as Fender got it---would love to know exactly how
they did it).
Matt Q
> Has anyone noticed that some blackface Showman heads (so roughly '64'-
> '67) have black grille cloth on the front rather than the customary
> silver sparkle? For example, there's a Showman head on eBay (the
> auction ended on Saturday) like that:
Matt,
> .... would love to know exactly how they did it.
Heat. The stuff isn't truly cloth, it's plastic,
thus heat will cause it to shrink. The trick is
to keep the heat gun moving in the right pattern.
Good point about the staples, except that one can
still buy the original style, if one still has a
'period-correct' staple gun to use them with.
unlunf
--- In , "reventlos" <matt@r...> wrote:
>
> Another clue is the staples themselves. All the '60's stuff
> I've seen use fairly large black staples. Re-grilled cab's
> invariably have the more modern skinnier silver ones (not
> to mention that the cloth never seems as straight as Fender
> got it---would love to know exactly how they did it).
>
> Matt Q
>
