Menu
Chicago brought in ringers????? Maybe in the middle years, but I actually
heard them rehearse here in Atlanta around 1969 or 1970 and I sat there
completely blown away.....30' away they were the most powerful band I had ever
seen......They rehearsed in a teen club in Atlanta called the Electric Eye on
several occasions.....Still today I think their early material is some of the
most powerful music ever committed to tape....I have actually heard rumors that
Jimi Hendrix said Terry Kath was the best guitar player he had ever
heard....Let's face it: three horns, Hammond B-3, grand piano and the late
great Kath on vocals and guitar..........awesome.......25 or 6 to 4......never
been a better track. respectfully submitted, eddie k
Phil Dirt <> wrote:That wasn't my source, but that
sounds correct.
It's also a BIG mistake with major label releases to accept band member
credit as evidence a band member is actually ON the recordings. You
need look no farther than the Surfaris Decca sessions for proof. On
most of the vocal tracks, only Ron Wilson (drums and vocals) appears of
record, the rest being studio musicians. Chicago and the Sex Pistols
are more examples.
Phil
--- westcoastpaeb <> wrote:
> --- In , "mom_surfing" <intheeye@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > wrote:........
> >
> > He also played with the legendary West Coast Pop Art Experimental
> Band,
> >
> > i haven't listened to these guys in years, i'll have to drag all
> the
> > old stuff out to refresh my memory.........mom
>
>
> You no doubt have 1 or more of their LP's on Reprise.You won't hear
> him on those LP's because (tho not listed) Michael Lloyd was on
> rhythm and Ron Morgan on lead guitar.In fact I would be surprised if
> Ron Eglit played on any of their records before or after their 3 on
> Reprise. Phil do you have information about Ron Eglit playing with
> them other than from the one page bio of him from the Surfaris
> website that says "In one capacity or another, Ron has shared the
> stage or studio with the West Coast Pop Art Experimental band".. Is
> that where you got that information? If not I'd be interested to know
>
> when and where he played with them live, or on what recordings he was
>
> on.
>
> westcoastpaeb
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know about the early days after album 1 (when they were still
CTA), but it's a very common practice. When the first record was cut
before CBS signed them, it was all them. After that, it's anybody's
guess. CBS like every other major signed the band name and rights, and
frequently replaced musicians in the studio.
Bill Champlin (Sons of Champlin), current guitarist with Chicago, told
me that when their new albums come out, they get an davance copy so
they can learn the arrangements and guitar hooks from the record to
play it that way live, 'cuz only a couple of key guys are actually on
the disc.
Phil
--- John McCorvey <> wrote:
> Chicago brought in ringers????? Maybe in the middle years, but I
> actually heard them rehearse here in Atlanta around 1969 or 1970 and
> I sat there completely blown away.....30' away they were the most
> powerful band I had ever seen......They rehearsed in a teen club in
> Atlanta called the Electric Eye on several occasions.....Still today
> I think their early material is some of the most powerful music ever
> committed to tape....I have actually heard rumors that Jimi Hendrix
> said Terry Kath was the best guitar player he had ever heard....Let's
> face it: three horns, Hammond B-3, grand piano and the late great
> Kath on vocals and guitar..........awesome.......25 or 6 to
> 4......never been a better track. respectfully submitted, eddie
> k
>
> Phil Dirt <> wrote:That wasn't my source,
> but that sounds correct.
>
> It's also a BIG mistake with major label releases to accept band
> member
> credit as evidence a band member is actually ON the recordings. You
> need look no farther than the Surfaris Decca sessions for proof. On
> most of the vocal tracks, only Ron Wilson (drums and vocals) appears
> of
> record, the rest being studio musicians. Chicago and the Sex Pistols
> are more examples.
>
> Phil
>
> --- westcoastpaeb <> wrote:
>
> > --- In , "mom_surfing" <intheeye@b...>
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > > wrote:........
> > >
> > > He also played with the legendary West Coast Pop Art Experimental
>
> > Band,
> > >
> > > i haven't listened to these guys in years, i'll have to drag all
> > the
> > > old stuff out to refresh my memory.........mom
> >
> >
> > You no doubt have 1 or more of their LP's on Reprise.You won't hear
>
> > him on those LP's because (tho not listed) Michael Lloyd was on
> > rhythm and Ron Morgan on lead guitar.In fact I would be surprised
> if
> > Ron Eglit played on any of their records before or after their 3 on
>
> > Reprise. Phil do you have information about Ron Eglit playing with
> > them other than from the one page bio of him from the Surfaris
> > website that says "In one capacity or another, Ron has shared the
> > stage or studio with the West Coast Pop Art Experimental band".. Is
>
> > that where you got that information? If not I'd be interested to
> know
> >
> > when and where he played with them live, or on what recordings he
> was
> >
> > on.
> >
> > westcoastpaeb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
> home
> > page
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
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> ---------------------------------
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>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Interesting insight....having heard them working on new material at the Electric
Eye and having heard them probably a dozen or so times......I certainly know
that they were more than qualified to put out those records themselves.....As I
remember, Pankow was doing the horn arrangements and Kath was running the
rehearsal. Serapine was listening to Kath's guitar in his headpones and it for
a twenty year old guitar wannabe, being there was a religious experience...
Those early Chicago albums like the Venures' early albums, were just in
classes of their respective own.........reverent eddie katcher
Phil Dirt <> wrote:I don't know about the early days
after album 1 (when they were still
CTA), but it's a very common practice. When the first record was cut
before CBS signed them, it was all them. After that, it's anybody's
guess. CBS like every other major signed the band name and rights, and
frequently replaced musicians in the studio.
Bill Champlin (Sons of Champlin), current guitarist with Chicago, told
me that when their new albums come out, they get an davance copy so
they can learn the arrangements and guitar hooks from the record to
play it that way live, 'cuz only a couple of key guys are actually on
the disc.
Phil
--- John McCorvey <> wrote:
> Chicago brought in ringers????? Maybe in the middle years, but I
> actually heard them rehearse here in Atlanta around 1969 or 1970 and
> I sat there completely blown away.....30' away they were the most
> powerful band I had ever seen......They rehearsed in a teen club in
> Atlanta called the Electric Eye on several occasions.....Still today
> I think their early material is some of the most powerful music ever
> committed to tape....I have actually heard rumors that Jimi Hendrix
> said Terry Kath was the best guitar player he had ever heard....Let's
> face it: three horns, Hammond B-3, grand piano and the late great
> Kath on vocals and guitar..........awesome.......25 or 6 to
> 4......never been a better track. respectfully submitted, eddie
> k
>
> Phil Dirt <> wrote:That wasn't my source,
> but that sounds correct.
>
> It's also a BIG mistake with major label releases to accept band
> member
> credit as evidence a band member is actually ON the recordings. You
> need look no farther than the Surfaris Decca sessions for proof. On
> most of the vocal tracks, only Ron Wilson (drums and vocals) appears
> of
> record, the rest being studio musicians. Chicago and the Sex Pistols
> are more examples.
>
> Phil
>
> --- westcoastpaeb <> wrote:
>
> > --- In , "mom_surfing" <intheeye@b...>
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > > wrote:........
> > >
> > > He also played with the legendary West Coast Pop Art Experimental
>
> > Band,
> > >
> > > i haven't listened to these guys in years, i'll have to drag all
> > the
> > > old stuff out to refresh my memory.........mom
> >
> >
> > You no doubt have 1 or more of their LP's on Reprise.You won't hear
>
> > him on those LP's because (tho not listed) Michael Lloyd was on
> > rhythm and Ron Morgan on lead guitar.In fact I would be surprised
> if
> > Ron Eglit played on any of their records before or after their 3 on
>
> > Reprise. Phil do you have information about Ron Eglit playing with
> > them other than from the one page bio of him from the Surfaris
> > website that says "In one capacity or another, Ron has shared the
> > stage or studio with the West Coast Pop Art Experimental band".. Is
>
> > that where you got that information? If not I'd be interested to
> know
> >
> > when and where he played with them live, or on what recordings he
> was
> >
> > on.
> >
> > westcoastpaeb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
> home
> > page
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home
> page
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> .
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> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In recording terms, qualified is entirely different from qwriting and playing
live. Major studio time is very expensive, and studio musicians are a special
brred that virtually don't make mistakes and come up with hooks and lines on teh
spot that are just what the producer wants. It's just not the same at all.
Phil
John McCorvey <> wrote:
Interesting insight....having heard them working on new material at the Electric
Eye and having heard them probably a dozen or so times......I certainly know
that they were more than qualified to put out those records themselves.....As I
remember, Pankow was doing the horn arrangements and Kath was running the
rehearsal. Serapine was listening to Kath's guitar in his headpones and it for a
twenty year old guitar wannabe, being there was a religious experience... Those
early Chicago albums like the Venures' early albums, were just in classes of
their respective own.........reverent eddie katcher
Phil Dirt
wrote:I don't know about the early days after album 1 (when they were still
CTA), but it's a very common practice. When the first record was cut
before CBS signed them, it was all them. After that, it's anybody's
guess. CBS like every other major signed the band name and rights, and
frequently replaced musicians in the studio.
Bill Champlin (Sons of Champlin), current guitarist with Chicago, told
me that when their new albums come out, they get an davance copy so
they can learn the arrangements and guitar hooks from the record to
play it that way live, 'cuz only a couple of key guys are actually on
the disc.
Phil
--- John McCorvey wrote:
> Chicago brought in ringers????? Maybe in the middle years, but I
> actually heard them rehearse here in Atlanta around 1969 or 1970 and
> I sat there completely blown away.....30' away they were the most
> powerful band I had ever seen......They rehearsed in a teen club in
> Atlanta called the Electric Eye on several occasions.....Still today
> I think their early material is some of the most powerful music ever
> committed to tape....I have actually heard rumors that Jimi Hendrix
> said Terry Kath was the best guitar player he had ever heard....Let's
> face it: three horns, Hammond B-3, grand piano and the late great
> Kath on vocals and guitar..........awesome.......25 or 6 to
> 4......never been a better track. respectfully submitted, eddie
> k
>
> Phil Dirt
wrote:That wasn't my source,
> but that sounds correct.
>
> It's also a BIG mistake with major label releases to accept band
> member
> credit as evidence a band member is actually ON the recordings. You
> need look no farther than the Surfaris Decca sessions for proof. On
> most of the vocal tracks, only Ron Wilson (drums and vocals) appears
> of
> record, the rest being studio musicians. Chicago and the Sex Pistols
> are more examples.
>
> Phil
>
> --- westcoastpaeb wrote:
>
> > --- In , "mom_surfing"
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In , Phil Dirt
> > > wrote:........
> > >
> > > He also played with the legendary West Coast Pop Art Experimental
>
> > Band,
> > >
> > > i haven't listened to these guys in years, i'll have to drag all
> > the
> > > old stuff out to refresh my memory.........mom
> >
> >
> > You no doubt have 1 or more of their LP's on Reprise.You won't hear
>
> > him on those LP's because (tho not listed) Michael Lloyd was on
> > rhythm and Ron Morgan on lead guitar.In fact I would be surprised
> if
> > Ron Eglit played on any of their records before or after their 3 on
>
> > Reprise. Phil do you have information about Ron Eglit playing with
> > them other than from the one page bio of him from the Surfaris
> > website that says "In one capacity or another, Ron has shared the
> > stage or studio with the West Coast Pop Art Experimental band".. Is
>
> > that where you got that information? If not I'd be interested to
> know
> >
> > when and where he played with them live, or on what recordings he
> was
> >
> > on.
> >
> > westcoastpaeb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
> home
> > page
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> > messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Phil, All:
Studio musicians? What blasphemy!
I've been a fan of Chicago since HS and college years
in the '70s, which started my love for horn bands. So,
to hear this news now about "ringers" is a surprise.
Next thing you know, you're gonna tell me Amanda
Lepore is not a real woman....
~ Jonathan
www.lbop.net
--- wrote:
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:37:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Phil Dirt <>
Subject: Re: Re: Chicago......ringers???
I don't know about the early days after album 1 (when
they were still
CTA), but it's a very common practice. When the first
record was cut
before CBS signed them, it was all them. After that,
it's anybody's
guess. CBS like every other major signed the band name
and rights, and
frequently replaced musicians in the studio.
Bill Champlin (Sons of Champlin), current guitarist
with Chicago, told
me that when their new albums come out, they get an
davance copy so
they can learn the arrangements and guitar hooks from
the record to
play it that way live, 'cuz only a couple of key guys
are actually on
the disc.
Phil
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Ah, the bubble bursts. Sorry 'bout that. Chicago may have faired better
than most bacause they were accomplished musicians. Few major label
artsits escape this curse completely. It's the nature of the usiness.
Even so-called alternative acts get misrepresented this way.
The Sex Pistols "Never Mind The Bollocks" features only two Sex Pistols
on disc (Lydon and Cook), with Vicious replaced by ex-Pistol bassist
Glenn Matlock ('cuz he could actually play bass), and Jones replaced by
the amazing Chris Spedding - a guitar god in his own right. Fabricated
punk from the get-go! Great album, nonetheless.
The only member of the Del-tones on any of Dick Dale's studio
recordings from the sixties is the occasional appearance by his bass
player. The usual suspects (studio liazrds) were on hand.
Only Ron Wilson appears on Surais vocals (for the most part) once they
signed with Decca. Bud Dant (producer) thought they were a sloppy band,
just kids. We lucked out because he did not think the instrumentals
were anything more than filler, thus allowing the band to actually
recorded those.
Phil
--- Jonathan Villegas <> wrote:
> Phil, All:
>
> Studio musicians? What blasphemy!
>
> I've been a fan of Chicago since HS and college years
> in the '70s, which started my love for horn bands. So,
> to hear this news now about "ringers" is a surprise.
>
> Next thing you know, you're gonna tell me Amanda
> Lepore is not a real woman....
>
> ~ Jonathan
> www.lbop.net
>
>
> --- wrote:
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:37:43 -0800 (PST)
> From: Phil Dirt <>
> Subject: Re: Re: Chicago......ringers???
>
> I don't know about the early days after album 1 (when
> they were still
> CTA), but it's a very common practice. When the first
> record was cut
> before CBS signed them, it was all them. After that,
> it's anybody's
> guess. CBS like every other major signed the band name
> and rights, and
> frequently replaced musicians in the studio.
>
> Bill Champlin (Sons of Champlin), current guitarist
> with Chicago, told
> me that when their new albums come out, they get an
> davance copy so
> they can learn the arrangements and guitar hooks from
> the record to
> play it that way live, 'cuz only a couple of key guys
> are actually on
> the disc.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
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>
>
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> page
>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
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> .
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> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> The Sex Pistols "Never Mind The Bollocks" features only two Sex
Pistols
> on disc (Lydon and Cook), with Vicious replaced by ex-Pistol bassist
> Glenn Matlock ('cuz he could actually play bass), and Jones replaced
by
> the amazing Chris Spedding - a guitar god in his own right.
Fabricated
> punk from the get-go! Great album, nonetheless.
Spedding claims he only recorded some guitar on their demos, not on
their album. See his interview here:
I've seen that before, Ivan. I'm not sure I buy it since others
involved (label, etc. folks) have claimed contrary (back in '77). Then
again, why would he deny it? Maybe it's one of the great unknowables.
--- ipongrac <> wrote:
> Spedding claims he only recorded some guitar on their demos, not on
> their album. See his interview here:
>
>
