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I've given myself the last 24 hours to play nothing but the 50 tracks I posted a
link to
earlier. And yes, to answer the question "are they illegal" well sorta - as
illegal as any
MP3 you download can be. I have no idea who posted or from what country. I saw
it and
thought wow - the Shadows! I've been meaning to get into them! And like most
artists I get
into, I will do the cardinal sin of searching out some MP3's before plunking
down the cash
for a CD. Like most of you, I get into non-mainstream stuff. My tastes lean more
towards the
blues-rock/southern rock side of things, as well as bakersfield-ish country
(other than surf
of course). So finding unheard of acts like Hadden Sayers or the Bottle Rockets
or
semi-heard of like the Derailers sometimes takes a little hunting. I download,
if I like, I
seek out the hard copy and buy it. If I dont, I delete it and move on.
As far as adding to the conversation about the Shads, I must admit I've always
loved Ivan's
playing and writing - both words on here and music. We'll just agree to disagree
on these
guys.... It was wrong of me to compare them to the Ventures for a lot of
reasons. For one,
we're talking two completely different bands, two completely different
continents and two
COMPLETELY different cultures.
The Shadows are uniquely English - quirky, dry, and ecclectic, at times humorous
and other
times touching. Sort of a Benny Hill with reverb.
The Ventures are uniquely American - brash, loud, fast, dirty and not afraid to
use what was
at their disposal (ie - studio musicians, and other's licks/sounds/etc). Sort of
a John
Wayne with reverb.
I could pick the Shads apart, just as I could the Ventures, but the bottom line
is they are
both legendary bands and both stand as pioneers of instrumental rock. And they
can ALL out
play my ass :)
As for who influenced who - you have to take everything in it's own era. The
Shadows ruled
the European airwaves, and that red Strat was infamous. How big of an influence
did they
have, and on who? Well, pretty much every british guitar hero who was a kid in
the 60's.
But, they must've not been as big an influence as say Freddie King (and because
of him, Eric
Clapton), because they ALL ended up wielding a Les Paul instead of a
Stratocaster.
Who did the Ventures influence? Similarly, I'd say everyone who ever picked up a
guitar in
North America. I have no idea what Brit-pickers start with, but who in the USA
didnt start
very early with a Ventures song? I know my first ever guitar knowledge was
"Walk, Dont Run".
Where as the brits seem to revel in telling of their influences, the americans
seem to only
talk about whoever they think will make them sound cool. I would bet dollars to
doughnuts
that every 'guitar hero' knows the Walk Dont Run chord progression if not the
lick. You
never hear Santana, Billy Gibbons or Dickey Betts mention (british blues
guitarist) Peter
Green, but listen to the first three Fleetwood Mac albums and you'll hear the
licks and
styles that made them famous. And Peter got some of his from Hank Marvin.. so
the chain
continues.
Regardless of who a players influences are, I wish those that make it to the big
stage would
take a nod from Stevie Ray Vaughan, and bring those that came before the stage
again. Had it
not been for his graciousness in that area, I would've never heard of Lonnie
Mack, and how
THAT guy didnt make huge waves in the 60's is beyond me. Duane Eddy is a legend,
while
Lonnie Mack is playing a pickup gig at a bar somewhere.
There aint no justice in guitar playin, remember that.
Robb
Wow, Robb, that was one of the better monologues ever on SG101! Geez! Neato!
Radical!
You're totally right 'bout Lonnie Mack. Skill is seldom the reason for guitar
legend status.
I do recall Eddie Van Halen once saying that the first song he learned was 'Walk
Don't Run,'
which always endeared Edward to myself.
Gavin
_________
Duane Eddy is a legend, while
> Lonnie Mack is playing a pickup gig at a bar somewhere.
>
> There aint no justice in guitar playin, remember that.
>
> Robb
>
I agree that you can't compare the Ventures and the Shadows. Both
totally great. Very different from each other. And Lonnie Mack was
(and is) a K-I-L-L-E-R guitarist (and vocalist).
Bob S.
--- In , "Robb Lowe" <robblowe@h...>
wrote:
>
>
> As far as adding to the conversation about the Shads, I must admit
I've always loved Ivan's
> playing and writing - both words on here and music. We'll just
agree to disagree on these
> guys.... It was wrong of me to compare them to the Ventures for a
lot of reasons. For one,
> we're talking two completely different bands, two completely
different continents and two
> COMPLETELY different cultures.
>
> The Shadows are uniquely English - quirky, dry, and ecclectic, at
times humorous and other
> times touching. Sort of a Benny Hill with reverb.
>
> The Ventures are uniquely American - brash, loud, fast, dirty and
not afraid to use what was
> at their disposal (ie - studio musicians, and other's
licks/sounds/etc). Sort of a John
> Wayne with reverb.
>
> I could pick the Shads apart, just as I could the Ventures, but the
bottom line is they are
> both legendary bands and both stand as pioneers of instrumental
rock. And they can ALL out
> play my ass :)
>
> As for who influenced who - you have to take everything in it's own
era. The Shadows ruled
> the European airwaves, and that red Strat was infamous. How big of
an influence did they
> have, and on who? Well, pretty much every british guitar hero who
was a kid in the 60's.
> But, they must've not been as big an influence as say Freddie King
(and because of him, Eric
> Clapton), because they ALL ended up wielding a Les Paul instead of
a Stratocaster.
>
> Who did the Ventures influence? Similarly, I'd say everyone who
ever picked up a guitar in
> North America. I have no idea what Brit-pickers start with, but who
in the USA didnt start
> very early with a Ventures song? I know my first ever guitar
knowledge was "Walk, Dont Run".
>
> Where as the brits seem to revel in telling of their influences,
the americans seem to only
> talk about whoever they think will make them sound cool. I would
bet dollars to doughnuts
> that every 'guitar hero' knows the Walk Dont Run chord progression
if not the lick. You
> never hear Santana, Billy Gibbons or Dickey Betts mention (british
blues guitarist) Peter
> Green, but listen to the first three Fleetwood Mac albums and
you'll hear the licks and
> styles that made them famous. And Peter got some of his from Hank
Marvin.. so the chain
> continues.
>
> Regardless of who a players influences are, I wish those that make
it to the big stage would
> take a nod from Stevie Ray Vaughan, and bring those that came
before the stage again. Had it
> not been for his graciousness in that area, I would've never heard
of Lonnie Mack, and how
> THAT guy didnt make huge waves in the 60's is beyond me. Duane Eddy
is a legend, while
> Lonnie Mack is playing a pickup gig at a bar somewhere.
>
> There aint no justice in guitar playin, remember that.
>
> Robb
>
Great post, Robb. I'm in agreement on most points. I hope you'll
give the Shadows a bit more of a chance. Maybe they'll grow on you
with time. I'd say it's worth picking up one of the greatest hits
comps. You can easily get them on Amazong.
Let me just quickly reply to a couple of your points:
--- In , "Robb Lowe" <robblowe@h...>
wrote:
> As far as adding to the conversation about the Shads, I must admit
I've always loved Ivan's
> playing and writing - both words on here and music. We'll just
agree to disagree on these
> guys....
Thanks, Robb, and yes, we will!
> The Shadows are uniquely English - quirky, dry, and ecclectic, at
times humorous and other
> times touching. Sort of a Benny Hill with reverb.
Ha! Never thought of it that way, but I guess it fits.
> As for who influenced who - you have to take everything in it's
own era. The Shadows ruled
> the European airwaves, and that red Strat was infamous. How big of
an influence did they
> have, and on who? Well, pretty much every british guitar hero who
was a kid in the 60's.
> But, they must've not been as big an influence as say Freddie King
(and because of him, Eric
> Clapton), because they ALL ended up wielding a Les Paul instead of
a Stratocaster.
They did? Clapton, Page and Beck did in the sixties and a bit of
the seventies, but Clapton and Beck now have signature Strats,
Knopfler was completely identified with the Strat, David Gilmour
same thing, etc. They ALL come back to the mighty Strat
eventually! ;)
Anyway, great post, very well said. Hopefully we can put this
argument to bed now!
Ivan
I gotta get in this too.....I have always admired the
Shadows' melodic approach, wonderful arrangements and
production. It was only after I got the "Final Tour"
DVD just this year that I really flipped....was
frankly stunned is more like it.....just plain
amazing. I have watched the DVD maybe 10 or so times
and it is causing me to seriously re-think my approach
to instrumental rock......I have already backed down
on the reverb and volume, up slightly on the echo and
become way more aware that people are actually out in
the audience attempting to listen to music... Hey
guys, I don't think anyone out there does a better
job of it than the Shadows did and still
do.......Eddie K
--- ipongrac <> wrote:
> Great post, Robb. I'm in agreement on most points.
> I hope you'll
> give the Shadows a bit more of a chance. Maybe
> they'll grow on you
> with time. I'd say it's worth picking up one of the
> greatest hits
> comps. You can easily get them on Amazong.
>
> Let me just quickly reply to a couple of your
> points:
>
> --- In , "Robb Lowe"
> <robblowe@h...>
> wrote:
>
> > As far as adding to the conversation about the
> Shads, I must admit
> I've always loved Ivan's
> > playing and writing - both words on here and
> music. We'll just
> agree to disagree on these
> > guys....
>
> Thanks, Robb, and yes, we will!
>
> > The Shadows are uniquely English - quirky, dry,
> and ecclectic, at
> times humorous and other
> > times touching. Sort of a Benny Hill with reverb.
>
> Ha! Never thought of it that way, but I guess it
> fits.
>
> > As for who influenced who - you have to take
> everything in it's
> own era. The Shadows ruled
> > the European airwaves, and that red Strat was
> infamous. How big of
> an influence did they
> > have, and on who? Well, pretty much every british
> guitar hero who
> was a kid in the 60's.
> > But, they must've not been as big an influence as
> say Freddie King
> (and because of him, Eric
> > Clapton), because they ALL ended up wielding a Les
> Paul instead of
> a Stratocaster.
>
> They did? Clapton, Page and Beck did in the sixties
> and a bit of
> the seventies, but Clapton and Beck now have
> signature Strats,
> Knopfler was completely identified with the Strat,
> David Gilmour
> same thing, etc. They ALL come back to the mighty
> Strat
> eventually! ;)
>
> Anyway, great post, very well said. Hopefully we
> can put this
> argument to bed now!
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
Eddie,
I should probably wait a dat before I respond to your post.
But I don't want to forget what I want ot say.
I understand what you say by people in your audience wanting
to "Listen to Music" and you backing down on the reverb and Volume.
But just be careful not to alienate(sp?) you younger audience.
If you get to mellow, you will come off as old fuddy duddys.
I'm never more impressed than when I see a middle aged or older
person really rip it up live and on cd.
Don't forget what brings alot of people to surf, is the
fire,intensity,spark, and Reverb and Volune of it.
Hope your not offended, just want to point out the other side of
what some people want to hear. Guess it depends on who your live
audience is.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , John McCorvey
<eddiekatcher@y...> wrote:
>
> I gotta get in this too.....I have always admired the
> Shadows' melodic approach, wonderful arrangements and
> production. It was only after I got the "Final Tour"
> DVD just this year that I really flipped....was
> frankly stunned is more like it.....just plain
> amazing. I have watched the DVD maybe 10 or so times
> and it is causing me to seriously re-think my approach
> to instrumental rock......I have already backed down
> on the reverb and volume, up slightly on the echo and
> become way more aware that people are actually out in
> the audience attempting to listen to music... Hey
> guys, I don't think anyone out there does a better
> job of it than the Shadows did and still
> do.......Eddie K
>
> --- ipongrac <ipongrac@g...> wrote:
>
> > Great post, Robb. I'm in agreement on most points.
> > I hope you'll
> > give the Shadows a bit more of a chance. Maybe
> > they'll grow on you
> > with time. I'd say it's worth picking up one of the
> > greatest hits
> > comps. You can easily get them on Amazong.
> >
> > Let me just quickly reply to a couple of your
> > points:
> >
> > --- In , "Robb Lowe"
> > <robblowe@h...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As far as adding to the conversation about the
> > Shads, I must admit
> > I've always loved Ivan's
> > > playing and writing - both words on here and
> > music. We'll just
> > agree to disagree on these
> > > guys....
> >
> > Thanks, Robb, and yes, we will!
> >
> > > The Shadows are uniquely English - quirky, dry,
> > and ecclectic, at
> > times humorous and other
> > > times touching. Sort of a Benny Hill with reverb.
> >
> > Ha! Never thought of it that way, but I guess it
> > fits.
> >
> > > As for who influenced who - you have to take
> > everything in it's
> > own era. The Shadows ruled
> > > the European airwaves, and that red Strat was
> > infamous. How big of
> > an influence did they
> > > have, and on who? Well, pretty much every british
> > guitar hero who
> > was a kid in the 60's.
> > > But, they must've not been as big an influence as
> > say Freddie King
> > (and because of him, Eric
> > > Clapton), because they ALL ended up wielding a Les
> > Paul instead of
> > a Stratocaster.
> >
> > They did? Clapton, Page and Beck did in the sixties
> > and a bit of
> > the seventies, but Clapton and Beck now have
> > signature Strats,
> > Knopfler was completely identified with the Strat,
> > David Gilmour
> > same thing, etc. They ALL come back to the mighty
> > Strat
> > eventually! ;)
> >
> > Anyway, great post, very well said. Hopefully we
> > can put this
> > argument to bed now!
> >
> > Ivan
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>
>
Jeff,
You bring to mind what I learned at the hands (or more properly,
the checkbook) of an old bar owner. He told us to keep cranking
it up until we see butts out on the dance floor, then hold it there!
(But let 'em sit down once in awhile to catch their collective
breath - and to buy some more beer, so that he can pay us!! <g>)
unlunf
--- In , "Jeff" <bigtikidude@y...> wrote:
>
> Eddie,
> I should probably wait a dat before I respond to your post.
> But I don't want to forget what I want ot say.
> I understand what you say by people in your audience wanting
> to "Listen to Music" and you backing down on the reverb and Volume.
>
> But just be careful not to alienate(sp?) you younger audience.
> If you get to mellow, you will come off as old fuddy duddys.
> I'm never more impressed than when I see a middle aged or older
> person really rip it up live and on cd.
> Don't forget what brings alot of people to surf, is the
> fire,intensity,spark, and Reverb and Volune of it.
>
> Hope your not offended, just want to point out the other side of
> what some people want to hear. Guess it depends on who your live
> audience is.
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
Thanks, Jeff for the candid response....as you
probably know, The Surge! (The X-Rays before we
changed our name) have been around since 1997 and we
have played all sorts of shows. Mostly our crowd
seems to be somewhat older and we've found that we
were running off a lot of people with the fierce
attack and excessive volume....What we have tried to
do is to scope out the crowd and try and second guess
how much blasting they can absorb....I didn't build up
all those Showman Amps we've hauled around all these
years to become too mamby pamby....you're right, "It
ain't SURF if you don't feel it......If we do one set,
then take no prisoners, two , three, or more sets,
pace the show. keep the crowd and the club owner
happy......eddie k
--- Jeff <> wrote:
> Eddie,
> I should probably wait a dat before I respond to
> your post.
> But I don't want to forget what I want ot say.
> I understand what you say by people in your
> audience wanting
> to "Listen to Music" and you backing down on the
> reverb and Volume.
>
> But just be careful not to alienate(sp?) you
> younger audience.
> If you get to mellow, you will come off as old fuddy
> duddys.
> I'm never more impressed than when I see a middle
> aged or older
> person really rip it up live and on cd.
> Don't forget what brings alot of people to surf,
> is the
> fire,intensity,spark, and Reverb and Volune of it.
>
> Hope your not offended, just want to point out the
> other side of
> what some people want to hear. Guess it depends on
> who your live
> audience is.
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
>
> --- In , John McCorvey
> <eddiekatcher@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I gotta get in this too.....I have always admired
> the
> > Shadows' melodic approach, wonderful arrangements
> and
> > production. It was only after I got the "Final
> Tour"
> > DVD just this year that I really flipped....was
> > frankly stunned is more like it.....just plain
> > amazing. I have watched the DVD maybe 10 or so
> times
> > and it is causing me to seriously re-think my
> approach
> > to instrumental rock......I have already backed
> down
> > on the reverb and volume, up slightly on the echo
> and
> > become way more aware that people are actually out
> in
> > the audience attempting to listen to music... Hey
> > guys, I don't think anyone out there does a
> better
> > job of it than the Shadows did and still
> > do.......Eddie K
> >
> > --- ipongrac <ipongrac@g...> wrote:
> >
> > > Great post, Robb. I'm in agreement on most
> points.
> > > I hope you'll
> > > give the Shadows a bit more of a chance. Maybe
> > > they'll grow on you
> > > with time. I'd say it's worth picking up one of
> the
> > > greatest hits
> > > comps. You can easily get them on Amazong.
> > >
> > > Let me just quickly reply to a couple of your
> > > points:
> > >
> > > --- In , "Robb
> Lowe"
> > > <robblowe@h...>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As far as adding to the conversation about the
> > > Shads, I must admit
> > > I've always loved Ivan's
> > > > playing and writing - both words on here and
> > > music. We'll just
> > > agree to disagree on these
> > > > guys....
> > >
> > > Thanks, Robb, and yes, we will!
> > >
> > > > The Shadows are uniquely English - quirky,
> dry,
> > > and ecclectic, at
> > > times humorous and other
> > > > times touching. Sort of a Benny Hill with
> reverb.
> > >
> > > Ha! Never thought of it that way, but I guess it
> > > fits.
> > >
> > > > As for who influenced who - you have to take
> > > everything in it's
> > > own era. The Shadows ruled
> > > > the European airwaves, and that red Strat was
> > > infamous. How big of
> > > an influence did they
> > > > have, and on who? Well, pretty much every
> british
> > > guitar hero who
> > > was a kid in the 60's.
> > > > But, they must've not been as big an influence
> as
> > > say Freddie King
> > > (and because of him, Eric
> > > > Clapton), because they ALL ended up wielding a
> Les
> > > Paul instead of
> > > a Stratocaster.
> > >
> > > They did? Clapton, Page and Beck did in the
> sixties
> > > and a bit of
> > > the seventies, but Clapton and Beck now have
> > > signature Strats,
> > > Knopfler was completely identified with the
> Strat,
> > > David Gilmour
> > > same thing, etc. They ALL come back to the
> mighty
> > > Strat
> > > eventually! ;)
> > >
> > > Anyway, great post, very well said. Hopefully
> we
> > > can put this
> > > argument to bed now!
> > >
> > > Ivan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
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