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A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists and a
bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the third
guitarist doing ?
¡¤ playing the same rhythm and chords but further up the neck
¡¤ playing the same lead part but further up the neck
¡¤ playing the same chords but on the backbeat etc
¡¤ something else ?
I know that ¡°Trouble¡± by the Kingsmen (a ¡®60s garage track) has
three guitars sort of chopping away over one another.
Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
Thanks,
Pineapple Geoff
We compiled a list of bands with a third guitarist and the list was
not very large.
I think it really varies band by band what the third guitarist is doing.
--- In , "pineapple_geoff"
<geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
>
> A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists and a
> bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the third
> guitarist doing ?
>
> ¡¤ playing the same rhythm and chords but further up the neck
> ¡¤ playing the same lead part but further up the neck
> ¡¤ playing the same chords but on the backbeat etc
> ¡¤ something else ?
>
> I know that ¡°Trouble¡± by the Kingsmen (a ¡®60s garage track) has
> three guitars sort of chopping away over one another.
>
> Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pineapple Geoff
>
It's not all that common, but the purpose (generally) of three guitars
in vintage surf was more often defined the way the Astronauts used
them:
lead (moderately reverbed)
rhythm (relatively dry chords)
rhythm (muted heavily reverbed single-note rhythm)
Phil
--- pineapple_geoff <> wrote:
> A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists and a
> bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the third
> guitarist doing ?
>
> ¡¤ playing the same rhythm and chords but further up the neck
> ¡¤ playing the same lead part but further up the neck
> ¡¤ playing the same chords but on the backbeat etc
> ¡¤ something else ?
>
> I know that ¡°Trouble¡± by the Kingsmen (a ¡®60s garage track) has
> three guitars sort of chopping away over one another.
>
> Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pineapple Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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In a message dated 10/27/2005 1:04:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, writes:
I think it really varies band by band what the third guitarist is doing.
And song to song as well.
There are no hard and fast rules for a triple guitar approach. Heck, in
Southern Rock, were I spend most of my formative years, bands often had as many
as three or four guitars plus a bass player, and sometimes they were all doing
something different.
In Surf, one guitar could be playing lead, a second playing a rhythm chop,
and a third doing a sustained chord with whammy bar vibrato. The possibilities
are endless.
-MC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Plus, you'll find many of those 'third' ax players are really
just doubling over from another instrument! Keyboards and
sax come to mind. Bob Demmon of the Astronauts played trumpet
and piano, so not everything they did required a 'score' for
three guitar parts. (This is according to his bio blurb on
the back of the "Surfin' With" album.)
Sometimes you had multi-talented players who just couldn't be
pinned down to one instrument for a whole night! As long as
the crowd loved the results, why shouldn't they take advantage
of what they can do? <g>
unlunf
p.s. As I read it, our previous discussion about "who's a
surf band" would pretty much eliminate the Astronauts from the
label of 'a surf band'. They did only one album in this vein.
As legend has it, they were a cross-genre group that could go
anywhere and play just about anything. (Hence the multi-
instrument capability gave them an advantage.) Accordingly,
this just reinforces Phil's earlier point, that a group
shouldn't be pigeon-holed by it's output, particularly if
they have crossed the genre line more than once.
--- In , "pineapple_geoff"
<geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
>
> A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists and a
> bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the third
> guitarist doing ?
[...]
>
> Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
I'm not sure a lot of surf guitar groups had 3 guitars, but the
classic formula for surf was set by the Astronauts as Phil Dirt
pointed out.
For a great modern example, check out Satan's Pilgrims (all of their
CD's except for their self titled release had 3 guitars). I had the
pleasure of seeing these guys live earlier this year (twice!), and it
was quite a thrill seeing 3 guitars in action. In general, Dave was
doing lead stuff, Scott was doing rhythm type stuff, and Bobby was
playing little atmospheric figures, chords, etc. Often the same chords
but at different positions on the neck. But they also changed roles a
few times. Or Dave would play the organ and Bobby would do the leads.
Man, they had such a HUGE sound. 5 guys on stage, all wearing capes,
it was awesome!
BN
Yeah, Phil's got it. If you listen to "Baja" by the Astronauts it
pretty much paints it out for you. With tha Bass bouncin' around
under it all, is pure majic.
Also another good example is "The Lonely Pilgrim" by Satan's
Pilgrims, allthough there is no drums. But you'll get the Idea.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> It's not all that common, but the purpose (generally) of three
guitars
> in vintage surf was more often defined the way the Astronauts used
> them:
>
> lead (moderately reverbed)
> rhythm (relatively dry chords)
> rhythm (muted heavily reverbed single-note rhythm)
>
> Phil
>
> --- pineapple_geoff <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
>
> > A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists and
a
> > bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the
third
> > guitarist doing ?
> >
> > ¡¤ playing the same rhythm and chords but further up the neck
> > ¡¤ playing the same lead part but further up the neck
> > ¡¤ playing the same chords but on the backbeat etc
> > ¡¤ something else ?
> >
> > I know that ¡°Trouble¡± by the Kingsmen (a ¡®60s garage track)
has
> > three guitars sort of chopping away over one another.
> >
> > Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Pineapple Geoff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Thanks for all the answers. So by "single-note rhythm" do you mean
something like "Moment of Truth" where one of the guitars follows
the chord (outlines it is probably a better word) or something else ?
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> It's not all that common, but the purpose (generally) of three
guitars
> in vintage surf was more often defined the way the Astronauts used
> them:
>
> lead (moderately reverbed)
> rhythm (relatively dry chords)
> rhythm (muted heavily reverbed single-note rhythm)
>
> Phil
>
> --- pineapple_geoff <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
>
> > A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists and
a
> > bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the
third
> > guitarist doing ?
> >
> > ¡¤ playing the same rhythm and chords but further up the neck
> > ¡¤ playing the same lead part but further up the neck
> > ¡¤ playing the same chords but on the backbeat etc
> > ¡¤ something else ?
> >
> > I know that ¡°Trouble¡± by the Kingsmen (a ¡®60s garage track)
has
> > three guitars sort of chopping away over one another.
> >
> > Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Pineapple Geoff
sometimes follows the chords, though that's not very interesting,
sometimes plays counter melody to the lead, sometimes plays what
amounts to a second lead but more rhytmic in nature, but most often
plays its own rhythm pattern.
--- pineapple_geoff <> wrote:
> Thanks for all the answers. So by "single-note rhythm" do you mean
> something like "Moment of Truth" where one of the guitars follows
> the chord (outlines it is probably a better word) or something else ?
>
>
>
> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> wrote:
> >
> > It's not all that common, but the purpose (generally) of three
> guitars
> > in vintage surf was more often defined the way the Astronauts used
> > them:
> >
> > lead (moderately reverbed)
> > rhythm (relatively dry chords)
> > rhythm (muted heavily reverbed single-note rhythm)
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- pineapple_geoff <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
> >
> > > A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists and
> a
> > > bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the
> third
> > > guitarist doing ?
> > >
> > > ¡¤ playing the same rhythm and chords but further up the neck
> > > ¡¤ playing the same lead part but further up the neck
> > > ¡¤ playing the same chords but on the backbeat etc
> > > ¡¤ something else ?
> > >
> > > I know that ¡°Trouble¡± by the Kingsmen (a ¡®60s garage track)
> has
> > > three guitars sort of chopping away over one another.
> > >
> > > Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Pineapple Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Geoff,
How many instruments does it take to play all the parts of
Pipeline? Count 'em out with me:
1) the lead
2) the chords (1st rhythm)
3) the reverb "fwip" (2nd rhythm) (this is the hook)
and
4) the bass
The Chantays played the lead on piano (!), but most groups do
it on guitar. Looking above, if you want to get even moderately
close to the original composition, you'll need either a third
guitar, a different lead instrument, or have to skip one of the
parts. Only one of these alternatives is acceptable! <lol>
Unless you're the Ventures, in which case you run the bass
through a reverb unit, and get the fwip that way. <g>
unlunf
--- In , "pineapple_geoff" <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the answers. So by "single-note rhythm" do you mean
> something like "Moment of Truth" where one of the guitars follows
> the chord (outlines it is probably a better word) or something
> else ?
>
>
In the Astronauts case, the single note rhythm guitar usually just
follow the chords.
Klas / The Surfites
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> sometimes follows the chords, though that's not very interesting,
> sometimes plays counter melody to the lead, sometimes plays what
> amounts to a second lead but more rhytmic in nature, but most often
> plays its own rhythm pattern.
>
> --- pineapple_geoff <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the answers. So by "single-note rhythm" do you
mean
> > something like "Moment of Truth" where one of the guitars
follows
> > the chord (outlines it is probably a better word) or something
else ?
> >
> > --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It's not all that common, but the purpose (generally) of three
> > guitars
> > > in vintage surf was more often defined the way the Astronauts
used
> > > them:
> > >
> > > lead (moderately reverbed)
> > > rhythm (relatively dry chords)
> > > rhythm (muted heavily reverbed single-note rhythm)
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- pineapple_geoff <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > A lot of the surf guitar groups had 3 six strings guitarists
and
> > a
> > > > bassist (common in early¡®60s groups generally). What¡¯s the
> > third
> > > > guitarist doing ?
> > > >
> > > > ¡¤ playing the same rhythm and chords but further up the
neck
> > > > ¡¤ playing the same lead part but further up the neck
> > > > ¡¤ playing the same chords but on the backbeat etc
> > > > ¡¤ something else ?
> > > >
> > > > I know that ¡°Trouble¡± by the Kingsmen (a ¡®60s garage
track)
> > has
> > > > three guitars sort of chopping away over one another.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas ? Got some examples ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Pineapple Geoff
Also note that the Chantays actually use a three guitar lineup-
Brian Carmen, Bob Spickard, Gil Orr.
Also for those interested in the use of the one note rhythm
technigue, there is no better example than the great Freddie Green,
Count Basie's guitarist. Check out this website
--- In , "unlunf" <unlunf@y...> wrote:
Geoff,
How many instruments does it take to play all the parts of
Pipeline? Count 'em out with me:
1) the lead
2) the chords (1st rhythm)
3) the reverb "fwip" (2nd rhythm) (this is the hook)
and
4) the bass
The Chantays played the lead on piano (!), but most groups do
it on guitar. Looking above, if you want to get even moderately
close to the original composition, you'll need either a third
guitar...
No one has mentioned one of my favorite stye of 3rd guitar parts,
doubling the bass part with muted drippy single notes. I think it adds
great depth to the rhythm.
Danny
Gil Orr wasn't in the the Chantays until 1965, near their end. They
were 2 guitars, piano, bass, drums. Piano carries lead in the breaks
only on most songs.
"Gil Orr joined the band in 1965 after meeting 'Pipeline' co-writer Bob
Spikard at a car dealership where both worked."
Phil
--- stratrhythm <> wrote:
> Also note that the Chantays actually use a three guitar lineup-
> Brian Carmen, Bob Spickard, Gil Orr.
>
> Also for those interested in the use of the one note rhythm
> technigue, there is no better example than the great Freddie Green,
> Count Basie's guitarist. Check out this website
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "unlunf" <unlunf@y...> wrote:
>
> Geoff,
>
> How many instruments does it take to play all the parts of
> Pipeline? Count 'em out with me:
>
> 1) the lead
> 2) the chords (1st rhythm)
> 3) the reverb "fwip" (2nd rhythm) (this is the hook)
> and
> 4) the bass
>
> The Chantays played the lead on piano (!), but most groups do
> it on guitar. Looking above, if you want to get even moderately
> close to the original composition, you'll need either a third
> guitar...
>
>
>
>
>
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"Pipeline" is lead guitar, rhythm guitar, piano, bass, and drums.
--- unlunf <> wrote:
> Geoff,
>
> How many instruments does it take to play all the parts of
> Pipeline? Count 'em out with me:
>
> 1) the lead
> 2) the chords (1st rhythm)
> 3) the reverb "fwip" (2nd rhythm) (this is the hook)
> and
> 4) the bass
>
> The Chantays played the lead on piano (!), but most groups do
> it on guitar. Looking above, if you want to get even moderately
> close to the original composition, you'll need either a third
> guitar, a different lead instrument, or have to skip one of the
> parts. Only one of these alternatives is acceptable! <lol>
>
> Unless you're the Ventures, in which case you run the bass
> through a reverb unit, and get the fwip that way. <g>
>
>
> unlunf
>
> --- In , "pineapple_geoff"
> <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for all the answers. So by "single-note rhythm" do you mean
> > something like "Moment of Truth" where one of the guitars follows
> > the chord (outlines it is probably a better word) or something
> > else ?
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home
> page
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
the stringalongs are probably the best example of third guitar parts .listen to
the original" wheels " john
Phil Dirt <> wrote:"Pipeline" is lead guitar, rhythm
guitar, piano, bass, and drums.
--- unlunf <> wrote:
> Geoff,
>
> How many instruments does it take to play all the parts of
> Pipeline? Count 'em out with me:
>
> 1) the lead
> 2) the chords (1st rhythm)
> 3) the reverb "fwip" (2nd rhythm) (this is the hook)
> and
> 4) the bass
>
> The Chantays played the lead on piano (!), but most groups do
> it on guitar. Looking above, if you want to get even moderately
> close to the original composition, you'll need either a third
> guitar, a different lead instrument, or have to skip one of the
> parts. Only one of these alternatives is acceptable! <lol>
>
> Unless you're the Ventures, in which case you run the bass
> through a reverb unit, and get the fwip that way. <g>
>
>
> unlunf
>
> --- In , "pineapple_geoff"
> <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for all the answers. So by "single-note rhythm" do you mean
> > something like "Moment of Truth" where one of the guitars follows
> > the chord (outlines it is probably a better word) or something
> > else ?
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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The Stringalongs did not record surf instrumentals, but did have their
influence on the early bands via their top 40 hit "Wheels."
Phil
--- John Squitti <> wrote:
> the stringalongs are probably the best example of third guitar parts
> .listen to the original" wheels " john
>
> Phil Dirt <> wrote:"Pipeline" is lead
> guitar, rhythm guitar, piano, bass, and drums.
>
> --- unlunf <> wrote:
>
> > Geoff,
> >
> > How many instruments does it take to play all the parts of
> > Pipeline? Count 'em out with me:
> >
> > 1) the lead
> > 2) the chords (1st rhythm)
> > 3) the reverb "fwip" (2nd rhythm) (this is the hook)
> > and
> > 4) the bass
> >
> > The Chantays played the lead on piano (!), but most groups do
> > it on guitar. Looking above, if you want to get even moderately
> > close to the original composition, you'll need either a third
> > guitar, a different lead instrument, or have to skip one of the
> > parts. Only one of these alternatives is acceptable! <lol>
> >
> > Unless you're the Ventures, in which case you run the bass
> > through a reverb unit, and get the fwip that way. <g>
> >
> >
> > unlunf
> >
> > --- In , "pineapple_geoff"
> > <geoffd3085@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the answers. So by "single-note rhythm" do you
> mean
> > > something like "Moment of Truth" where one of the guitars follows
>
> > > the chord (outlines it is probably a better word) or something
> > > else ?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Phil,
> "Pipeline" is lead guitar, rhythm guitar, piano, bass, and drums.
Not on either of my copies, vinyl or CD.
But I never saw them play, live or recorded, so
I probably shouldn't say that this is absolute.
I do admit that a guitar can be made to sound like
an old Wurlitzer 'combo' piano, but I don't think
they did that too often, back then. <g>
(The piano sounds, to me, exactly like what Ray
Manzarek used in The Doors. Strange, that. <g>)
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> "Pipeline" is lead guitar, rhythm guitar, piano, bass, and drums.
>
> --- unlunf <unlunf@y...> wrote:
>
>> .....
>> The Chantays played the lead on piano (!), but most groups do
>> it on guitar.
>>
>> unlunf
The stringalongs.... Didn't they pretty much die out
before reverb/surf got started in a big way?
(I'm not asshatting here, this is a legitmate question.
Google doesn't return a thing at all, beside the usual
references from other groups to the tune 'Wheels'.)
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> The Stringalongs did not record surf instrumentals, but did have
> their influence on the early bands via their top 40 hit "Wheels."
>
> Phil
>
> --- John Squitti <jpsquitti@y...> wrote:
>
>> the stringalongs are probably the best example of third
>> guitar parts. listen to the original "wheels".
>>
>> john
>
yes they did but wheels was one of the biggest selling instrumentals ever ,also
covered by more artist,s ..as in wheels they made extensive use of the muted
rythym .. i don,t think i heard anybody do it before them .john
unlunf <> wrote:The stringalongs.... Didn't they pretty much die
out
before reverb/surf got started in a big way?
(I'm not asshatting here, this is a legitmate question.
Google doesn't return a thing at all, beside the usual
references from other groups to the tune 'Wheels'.)
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> The Stringalongs did not record surf instrumentals, but did have
> their influence on the early bands via their top 40 hit "Wheels."
>
> Phil
>
> --- John Squitti <jpsquitti@y...> wrote:
>
>> the stringalongs are probably the best example of third
>> guitar parts. listen to the original "wheels".
>>
>> john
>
.
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