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Phil,
Double Yikes, in spades. Seems I've gotten off on the wrong
foot here, but then, that seems to be my stock in trade. <groan>
They don't call me "doesn't play well with others" for the heck
of it. <g>
OK, first, I just wrote a note to Brian and thanked him for
putting me straight. While enshrining that epistle, I had
thought to apologize to you, but decided to make it personal
instead. So here it is: Phil, I'm sorry that I took your
short message the wrong way. As you can tell by now, I'm
a loquacious sog, and often I miss a point if the speaker
was/is too terse. My lot in life, sigh. <g>
Next, I've finally recalled the real reason I can get so
worked up about this whole thing. Since you have had
exposure to some of the Northwest's finest musical talent,
let me relate an incident that still burns me with embarrassment
to this day. Picture this:
I'm a Junior in high school, acne scarred like everyone else,
not very sports minded, competing for top scholastic honors
(read: a geek), and have been playing guitar for just over two
years. I'm working part-time after school at the local music
store where all the stars buy their gear, and loving the
slight status that goes with it. Now, along comes a concert
in one of the best venues in downtown Seattle (this is just
after the World's Fair in '62), and several bands are lined up.
Guess who's got top billing? Right, it's the Ventures.
So anyway, local teenage AM station DJ Pat O'Day is running the
show. It's halfway through the penultimate group (The Sonics!!),
and the Ventures are nowhere to be seen. I'm getting worried
that my heroes are gonna be late. (Hey, it's 1963, and I've got
the only family car, and a parental curfew. Ease up out there.
<g>) So I go up to Mr. Super Star DJ, and ask him in my humblest
manner when the Ventures are gonna play. He says, and I have this
quote burned in my brain: "There will be no surf music here tonight."
Period. End of story. I'm mortified, of course, and slink out of
his sight about half a foot under the flooring.
Thus are the Ventures forever captured as a surf band. It was
writ large upon the wall at the National Guard Armory in 1963,
by the God of DJs hisownself. Must be the truth, right? <lol>
And so ends my tale of woe. Now that you've all had a chance to
laugh at my expense, let me sign off with one more thing. That
Cowabunga link (to the definition of surf music) is a pretty good
start, but if it were such a good answer, how come so many folks
still have such emotive passions about the topic? Could it be that
the discussion thereon is not truly complete? Just wondering,
that's all. <g>
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> Yikes! No hostility intended or even implied, just wee-hours
> brevity. It wasn't an attack.
>
> (rest of message omitted for brevity)
>
Hi,
I too, used to lump The Ventures in with general surf music. It wasn't until I
got seriously into playing surf music as part of a band, that several older,
more experienced players explained the subtle differences between Instro
(Ventures, Champs, Wailers, Fireballs, Duane Eddy, Link Wray) versus Surf (Dick
Dale, The Lively Ones, The Chantays, The Surfaris, The Pyramids, The Impacts,
etc, etc.)
By 1962-63, other than The Bel Airs, most every Surf Band used medium to heavy
Reverb. The Ventures almost NEVER used more than the most minimal 'verb.
Listen to their versions of songs like Wipe Out, Pipeline, etc and you'll hear
arrangements that are dry as a dustbowl compared against the originals.
Further, since the early 1980's in interview after interview, Messrs. Wilson and
Bogle have gone out of their way to emphasize that The Ventures never were, are
not now, and never will be, a "Surf Band". Two of the more notable such
interviews were published by Guitar Player Magazine, and more recently Vintage
Guitar Magazine, both widely read and circulated publications. On one of their
compilation CD's they verbally go on record once again stating that they are
"not a Surf Band, but rather an Instrumental Band that happens to have played
some surf songs."
If The Ventures' OWN emphatic and repeated denials aren't enough for you,
whatever would or could be?
Don't get me wrong, BTW. The Ventures have always been one of my favorite bands
of all time! Their 1960 recording of Walk Don't Run remains, to me, an iconic
standard of how absolutely riveting and magical the electric guitar can sound.
I feel damned fortunate to have grown up in their era, to have had all the
listening enjoyment that their records, discs and live shows have brought me
over the years. Frankly, I don't give a rat's patootie what their music is
called! I still love and admire them and credit them with inspiring me to
become a guitarist. For me, that is more than enough.
Ventures Forever!!!!
Bruce D
unlunf <> wrote:
Phil,
Double Yikes, in spades. Seems I've gotten off on the wrong
foot here, but then, that seems to be my stock in trade. <groan>
They don't call me "doesn't play well with others" for the heck
of it. <g>
OK, first, I just wrote a note to Brian and thanked him for
putting me straight. While enshrining that epistle, I had
thought to apologize to you, but decided to make it personal
instead. So here it is: Phil, I'm sorry that I took your
short message the wrong way. As you can tell by now, I'm
a loquacious sog, and often I miss a point if the speaker
was/is too terse. My lot in life, sigh. <g>
Next, I've finally recalled the real reason I can get so
worked up about this whole thing. Since you have had
exposure to some of the Northwest's finest musical talent,
let me relate an incident that still burns me with embarrassment
to this day. Picture this:
I'm a Junior in high school, acne scarred like everyone else,
not very sports minded, competing for top scholastic honors
(read: a geek), and have been playing guitar for just over two
years. I'm working part-time after school at the local music
store where all the stars buy their gear, and loving the
slight status that goes with it. Now, along comes a concert
in one of the best venues in downtown Seattle (this is just
after the World's Fair in '62), and several bands are lined up.
Guess who's got top billing? Right, it's the Ventures.
So anyway, local teenage AM station DJ Pat O'Day is running the
show. It's halfway through the penultimate group (The Sonics!!),
and the Ventures are nowhere to be seen. I'm getting worried
that my heroes are gonna be late. (Hey, it's 1963, and I've got
the only family car, and a parental curfew. Ease up out there.
<g>) So I go up to Mr. Super Star DJ, and ask him in my humblest
manner when the Ventures are gonna play. He says, and I have this
quote burned in my brain: "There will be no surf music here tonight."
Period. End of story. I'm mortified, of course, and slink out of
his sight about half a foot under the flooring.
Thus are the Ventures forever captured as a surf band. It was
writ large upon the wall at the National Guard Armory in 1963,
by the God of DJs hisownself. Must be the truth, right? <lol>
And so ends my tale of woe. Now that you've all had a chance to
laugh at my expense, let me sign off with one more thing. That
Cowabunga link (to the definition of surf music) is a pretty good
start, but if it were such a good answer, how come so many folks
still have such emotive passions about the topic? Could it be that
the discussion thereon is not truly complete? Just wondering,
that's all. <g>
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> Yikes! No hostility intended or even implied, just wee-hours
> brevity. It wasn't an attack.
>
> (rest of message omitted for brevity)
>
.
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Bruce D
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's unfortunate that Pat O'Days event didn't feature any surf music, unlunf,
but I hope you stayed around for the Ventures. I hear they were fantastic at
that show. (snicker, snicker)
Passions run rampent because Madison Ave has done such a good job of distorting
what surf music was/is.
-Marty
unlunf <> wrote:
Phil,
...I'm getting worried that my heroes are gonna be late. (Hey, it's 1963, and
I've got
the only family car, and a parental curfew. Ease up out there.
<g>) So I go up to Mr. Super Star DJ, and ask him in my humblest
manner when the Ventures are gonna play. He says, and I have this
quote burned in my brain: "There will be no surf music here tonight."
Period. End of story. I'm mortified, of course, and slink out of
his sight about half a foot under the flooring.
...That Cowabunga link (to the definition of surf music) is a pretty good
start, but if it were such a good answer, how come so many folks
still have such emotive passions about the topic? Could it be that
the discussion thereon is not truly complete? Just wondering,
that's all. <g>
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> Yikes! No hostility intended or even implied, just wee-hours
> brevity. It wasn't an attack.
>
> (rest of message omitted for brevity)
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
SPONSORED LINKS
Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book Guitar sheet music
Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm reminded of Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet's "We're not a fucking
surf band" on the Sport Fishing record.
Happy Reverbs!
Spanky
On Oct 17, 2005, at 4:15 PM, bruce duncan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I too, used to lump The Ventures in with general surf music. It
> wasn't until I got seriously into playing surf music as part of a
> band, that several older, more experienced players explained the
> subtle differences between Instro (Ventures, Champs, Wailers,
> Fireballs, Duane Eddy, Link Wray) versus Surf (Dick Dale, The Lively
> Ones, The Chantays, The Surfaris, The Pyramids, The Impacts, etc,
> etc.)
>
> By 1962-63, other than The Bel Airs, most every Surf Band used medium
> to heavy Reverb. The Ventures almost NEVER used more than the most
> minimal 'verb. Listen to their versions of songs like Wipe Out,
> Pipeline, etc and you'll hear arrangements that are dry as a dustbowl
> compared against the originals.Â
>
> Further, since the early 1980's in interview after interview, Messrs.
> Wilson and Bogle have gone out of their way to emphasize that The
> Ventures never were, are not now, and never will be, a "Surf Band".Â
> Two of the more notable such interviews were published by Guitar
> Player Magazine, and more recently Vintage Guitar Magazine, both
> widely read and circulated publications. On one of their compilation
> CD's they verbally go on record once again stating that they are "not
> a Surf Band, but rather an Instrumental Band that happens to have
> played some surf songs."
>
> If The Ventures' OWN emphatic and repeated denials aren't enough for
> you, whatever would or could be?
>
> Don't get me wrong, BTW. The Ventures have always been one of my
> favorite bands of all time! Their 1960 recording of Walk Don't Run
> remains, to me, an iconic standard of how absolutely riveting and
> magical the electric guitar can sound. I feel damned fortunate to
> have grown up in their era, to have had all the listening enjoyment
> that their records, discs and live shows have brought me over the
> years. Frankly, I don't give a rat's patootie what their music is
> called! I still love and admire them and credit them with inspiring
> me to become a guitarist. For me, that is more than enough.
>
> Ventures Forever!!!!
>
> Bruce D
>
>
> unlunf <> wrote:
> Phil,
>
> Double Yikes, in spades. Seems I've gotten off on the wrong
> foot here, but then, that seems to be my stock in trade. <groan>
> They don't call me "doesn't play well with others" for the heck
> of it. <g>
>
> OK, first, I just wrote a note to Brian and thanked him for
> putting me straight. While enshrining that epistle, I had
> thought to apologize to you, but decided to make it personal
> instead. So here it is: Phil, I'm sorry that I took your
> short message the wrong way. As you can tell by now, I'm
> a loquacious sog, and often I miss a point if the speaker
> was/is too terse. My lot in life, sigh. <g>
>
> Next, I've finally recalled the real reason I can get so
> worked up about this whole thing. Since you have had
> exposure to some of the Northwest's finest musical talent,
> let me relate an incident that still burns me with embarrassment
> to this day. Picture this:
>
> I'm a Junior in high school, acne scarred like everyone else,
> not very sports minded, competing for top scholastic honors
> (read: a geek), and have been playing guitar for just over two
> years. I'm working part-time after school at the local music
> store where all the stars buy their gear, and loving the
> slight status that goes with it. Now, along comes a concert
> in one of the best venues in downtown Seattle (this is just
> after the World's Fair in '62), and several bands are lined up.
> Guess who's got top billing? Right, it's the Ventures.
>
> So anyway, local teenage AM station DJ Pat O'Day is running the
> show. It's halfway through the penultimate group (The Sonics!!),
> and the Ventures are nowhere to be seen. I'm getting worried
> that my heroes are gonna be late. (Hey, it's 1963, and I've got
> the only family car, and a parental curfew. Ease up out there.
> <g>)Â So I go up to Mr. Super Star DJ, and ask him in my humblest
> manner when the Ventures are gonna play. He says, and I have this
> quote burned in my brain: "There will be no surf music here tonight."
> Period. End of story. I'm mortified, of course, and slink out of
> his sight about half a foot under the flooring.
>
> Thus are the Ventures forever captured as a surf band. It was
> writ large upon the wall at the National Guard Armory in 1963,
> by the God of DJs hisownself. Must be the truth, right? <lol>
>
> And so ends my tale of woe. Now that you've all had a chance to
> laugh at my expense, let me sign off with one more thing. That
> Cowabunga link (to the definition of surf music) is a pretty good
> start, but if it were such a good answer, how come so many folks
> still have such emotive passions about the topic? Could it be that
> the discussion thereon is not truly complete? Just wondering,
> that's all. <g>
>
>
> unlunf
>
>
>
> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> >
> > Yikes! No hostility intended or even implied, just wee-hours
> > brevity. It wasn't an attack.
> >
> > (rest of message omitted for brevity)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book Guitar
> sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Â Â Â Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> Â
> Â Â Â To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
> Â
> Â Â Â Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> "There's no such thing as too much reverb"
> Bruce D
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> ⪠ Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> Â
> ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Â
> Â
> ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ah, so its Pat O'Day's fault. He was not one of my faves back then for
various rasons. What do I expect from a DJ / local pormoter / label
interface from Seattle know about an LA sound, anyway?
You, on the other hand, got the see THE SONICS!
No apology required. Passion is good.
Some of my favorite bands back then were the Viceroys, the Sonics, the
Wailers, Dave Lewis, Don and the Good Times, and from just South the
Kingsmen and (after leaving Idaho) Paul revere and the Raiders.
I still play "Tiger Shark" from time to time, and of course there's
"The Witch" and all those wonderful "Louie Louie's."
Phil
--- unlunf <> wrote:
> Phil,
>
> Double Yikes, in spades. Seems I've gotten off on the wrong
> foot here, but then, that seems to be my stock in trade. <groan>
> They don't call me "doesn't play well with others" for the heck
> of it. <g>
>
> OK, first, I just wrote a note to Brian and thanked him for
> putting me straight. While enshrining that epistle, I had
> thought to apologize to you, but decided to make it personal
> instead. So here it is: Phil, I'm sorry that I took your
> short message the wrong way. As you can tell by now, I'm
> a loquacious sog, and often I miss a point if the speaker
> was/is too terse. My lot in life, sigh. <g>
>
> Next, I've finally recalled the real reason I can get so
> worked up about this whole thing. Since you have had
> exposure to some of the Northwest's finest musical talent,
> let me relate an incident that still burns me with embarrassment
> to this day. Picture this:
>
> I'm a Junior in high school, acne scarred like everyone else,
> not very sports minded, competing for top scholastic honors
> (read: a geek), and have been playing guitar for just over two
> years. I'm working part-time after school at the local music
> store where all the stars buy their gear, and loving the
> slight status that goes with it. Now, along comes a concert
> in one of the best venues in downtown Seattle (this is just
> after the World's Fair in '62), and several bands are lined up.
> Guess who's got top billing? Right, it's the Ventures.
>
> So anyway, local teenage AM station DJ Pat O'Day is running the
> show. It's halfway through the penultimate group (The Sonics!!),
> and the Ventures are nowhere to be seen. I'm getting worried
> that my heroes are gonna be late. (Hey, it's 1963, and I've got
> the only family car, and a parental curfew. Ease up out there.
> <g>) So I go up to Mr. Super Star DJ, and ask him in my humblest
> manner when the Ventures are gonna play. He says, and I have this
> quote burned in my brain: "There will be no surf music here tonight."
> Period. End of story. I'm mortified, of course, and slink out of
> his sight about half a foot under the flooring.
>
> Thus are the Ventures forever captured as a surf band. It was
> writ large upon the wall at the National Guard Armory in 1963,
> by the God of DJs hisownself. Must be the truth, right? <lol>
>
> And so ends my tale of woe. Now that you've all had a chance to
> laugh at my expense, let me sign off with one more thing. That
> Cowabunga link (to the definition of surf music) is a pretty good
> start, but if it were such a good answer, how come so many folks
> still have such emotive passions about the topic? Could it be that
> the discussion thereon is not truly complete? Just wondering,
> that's all. <g>
>
>
> unlunf
>
>
>
> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yikes! No hostility intended or even implied, just wee-hours
> > brevity. It wasn't an attack.
> >
> > (rest of message omitted for brevity)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Phil,
> You, on the other hand, got the see THE SONICS!
You should been here last summer for the grand "Louie-Louie Off".
1600+ guitarists and boatload of drummers, all doing the State
Anthem at the same time in Tacoma's Cheney Stadium (outdoors)!
There was mention of the Guiness Book of Records, but I never
heard anything more after the event.
Better yet, several years back, the Western Washington State Fair
in Puyallup had a Northwest All Star Revue. Paul Revere led a
bunch of old timers including the Wailers, some of the Sonics,
one of the Regents, JJ Valley (Don & The Goodtimes), Little Bill
and the Bluenotes, and a slew of others, all in one gigantic,
as Paul called it, "The Louie-Louie from Hell"!! Gawd what a sight,
even Merilee Rush got in the act on that one! For criminey sake,
they even dug up Gail Harris, who was only 15 when the Wailers
recorded their House Party album at the Spanish Castle - and she
was still a knock-out! (Not hard on the eyes, either. <g>)
(A side note of strangeness - no Kingsmen at all. Hmmmmm.)
And I've still got most of that old vinyl, but I've snagged CDs
wherever possible, to lengthen the life of said vinyl - I'm sure
you understand. <lol>
unlunf
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> Ah, so its Pat O'Day's fault. He was not one of my faves back then
> for various rasons. What do I expect from a DJ / local pormoter /
> label interface from Seattle know about an LA sound, anyway?
>
> You, on the other hand, got the see THE SONICS!
>
> No apology required. Passion is good.
>
> Some of my favorite bands back then were the Viceroys, the Sonics,
> the Wailers, Dave Lewis, Don and the Good Times, and from just
> South the Kingsmen and (after leaving Idaho) Paul revere and the
> Raiders.
>
> I still play "Tiger Shark" from time to time, and of course there's
> "The Witch" and all those wonderful "Louie Louie's."
>
> Phil
>
