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Hi All,
As I've mentioned earlier, I'm in the process of putting a band
together, and it's going well - I'm actually finding people who want to
play this music! But there's one question that inevitably comes up
when discussing the direction of the band: should we play covers of
classic surf tunes? A simple question?... no it isn't. Buried in the
heart of that question are some more questions, such as:
Do you want to get gigs?
Do you want to make enough money to cover expenses?
Is it more important that more people get to hear some of your
originals, rather than some people hear all of your originals?
Will you be bored playing songs you've heard a thousand times over the
last 30 odd years?
Will your band-mates get frustrated from not getting a lot of gigs and
quit the band prematurely?
Music for me is about creative expression and doing something unique
(however slightly) and I've found that building the songs are just as
much fun as playing them. However, by limiting us to strictly
originals and covers of songs that we like, I may be "cutting off my
nose to spite my face". So I look to my "Brotherhood of the Springs"
for their vastly greater experience in these matters and for some
sagely advice.
Danny Snyder
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My 4 cents...learn enough cover tunes to fill up a set. If you only play
originals, then the only audience members who'll repeatedly show up are the
same hardcore FEW that show up at every surf gig, and you know who you are!
The reason for playing covers is to give the audience members something
familiar they can grab on to. Otherwise, every instrumental surf song will
start to sound alike after about 15 minutes if you're doing 3 minute songs.
However, make sure you sandwich your originals into the set as much as you
like.
Now, here's the key, in my opinion, to regurgitating covers. MAKE THEM YOUR
OWN STYLE! Don't learn songs note for note, beat for beat, off of records
and play them that way. Then you'll just sound like the records, and you'll
only satisfy those same few guys at the gig. Learn from the original
version, but alter it to represent your style and approach. And here's
another trick I've used in my bands...(1)play some of the more obscure surf
tunes, and people will think you wrote them. (Except for those few in the
audience that have memorized every surf song written between 1960 and
1965!!); and (2)pick some songs that are NOT surf tunes, and make them surf.
Nothing's cooler than hearing a song from say, Celine Dion, done as a surf
tune [Los Straitjackets did it with the Theme From The Titanic]. We also
liked to combine two songs and make one longer song from it.
Here are a few examples as explained above:
My first surf band, THE SHOCKWAVES, did "Minor Chaos" and "Similau" (not too
common); we did "Batwipe" [Batman and Wipe Out combined] and "Lee's Hearse"
[El Aguila and the Hearse and Baja combined] and "Downhill Curl" [Downhill
Run and Curl Rider combined]; my last surf band, THE SUB-MERSIANS did "Love
Pipe" and "Egypt Tx" and "Los Rancheros" (not too common); we did
"Interstellar Caravan" [Interstellar Overdrive and Caravan combined] and
"Mongoloid Rebel" [Mongoloid and the Rebel combined] and "Walk Don't Leave"
[Walk Don't Run and Lullaby Of The Leaves combined].
If you do some quick research on these song titles you'll find out that we
covered many strange choices and mixed surf and not surf together. The fun
part is learning these, arranging them, and playing them live. How many surf
music fans expect to hear Devo?!?!? Doing all this allows you to be creative
and still interject your own feeling into it.
YES, there are exceptios. There are many great bands out there who only do
originals. But even they pull out a cover or two and the audience often
comes alive when they hear them. As great as Slacktone is, and they are the
best, we still talk about their version of 'Misirlou'.
REMINDER=show up at Phil Dirt's Tribute Surf Party Bash on October 22nd at
the Brookdale Lodge, and you'll hear the first reunion by THE SHOCKWAVES
since 1986 with all four original members. We'll do most or all of the songs
I mentioned above!!!
Stretch Riedle
(drummer)
At 08:50 AM 10/9/05 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>As I've mentioned earlier, I'm in the process of putting a band
>together, and it's going well - I'm actually finding people who want to
>play this music! But there's one question that inevitably comes up
>when discussing the direction of the band: should we play covers of
>classic surf tunes? A simple question?... no it isn't. Buried in the
>heart of that question are some more questions, such as:
>
>Do you want to get gigs?
>Do you want to make enough money to cover expenses?
>Is it more important that more people get to hear some of your
>originals, rather than some people hear all of your originals?
>Will you be bored playing songs you've heard a thousand times over the
>last 30 odd years?
>Will your band-mates get frustrated from not getting a lot of gigs and
>quit the band prematurely?
>
>
>Music for me is about creative expression and doing something unique
>(however slightly) and I've found that building the songs are just as
>much fun as playing them. However, by limiting us to strictly
>originals and covers of songs that we like, I may be "cutting off my
>nose to spite my face". So I look to my "Brotherhood of the Springs"
>for their vastly greater experience in these matters and for some
>sagely advice.
>
> Danny Snyder
Hey Danny,
I don't think I really have any advice, but there probably is a balance between
being an
artist and being a performer/entertainer. How much compromising can you live
with?
As an audience member I do enjoy a good version of a favorite cover tune, but am
more
blown away and inspired by good originals.
Musically, I guess I am not willing to make compromises. Being a one man band
gives me
lots of space for creative expression though. Actual excerpts from recording
sessions...
"Tremolo on the bass?", good idea Joe!
"More fuzz Boss?", you go, boy!
"Too fast, Chief?" Not a prob, Sparky!
"Big gig tonite?" Um, Dude, I don't think so.
"Do the chickens have large talons?".
Just one example of blending originals with a semi-obscure fave cover.
I know, I'm lame.
joe
danny,
you should start building your band now the way you
'see it' in the future. Do you want to create your own
system ( originals ) or play an exisiting proven
system ( covers ).
Either way youre going to lose some percentage. If you
play all covers you will lose people like me, who are
always looking for new innovative music, but you will
gain some hardcore surfers. But whats your topshelf
with playing covers, money wise, i see very little
room for dollars once youre playing gigs for money.
If you want to build your band as original, i wouldnt
do many/any covers, because i think your youd be
watering down your band brand. If you do all covers
and slowly put in originals, it will take you much
longer to get to your "original music vision" and it
might be hard to shake the "cover brand" you already
put in your listeners minds.
When it comes to this, the greatest example i see is
Jim Thomas of the Mermen.
In my mind the MERMEN means 'innovative guitar
instrumentals'. Now the mermen havent released an
album in a long time. Jim needs money. Does Jim start
playing covers with the Mermen to pick up more on a
niche. Heck no, it would destroy the Mermen brand. So
he started a band called the Shi-TOnes, to do all
sorts of covers.
What do you think ?
--- wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> As I've mentioned earlier, I'm in the process of
> putting a band
> together, and it's going well - I'm actually finding
> people who want to
> play this music! But there's one question that
> inevitably comes up
> when discussing the direction of the band: should
> we play covers of
> classic surf tunes? A simple question?... no it
> isn't. Buried in the
> heart of that question are some more questions, such
> as:
>
> Do you want to get gigs?
> Do you want to make enough money to cover expenses?
> Is it more important that more people get to hear
> some of your
> originals, rather than some people hear all of your
> originals?
> Will you be bored playing songs you've heard a
> thousand times over the
> last 30 odd years?
> Will your band-mates get frustrated from not getting
> a lot of gigs and
> quit the band prematurely?
>
>
> Music for me is about creative expression and doing
> something unique
> (however slightly) and I've found that building the
> songs are just as
> much fun as playing them. However, by limiting us
> to strictly
> originals and covers of songs that we like, I may be
> "cutting off my
> nose to spite my face". So I look to my "Brotherhood
> of the Springs"
> for their vastly greater experience in these matters
> and for some
> sagely advice.
>
> Danny Snyder
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Not to be missed. Looking forward to it!
BW Dave
>
>REMINDER=show up at Phil Dirt's Tribute Surf Party Bash on October 22nd
at
>the Brookdale Lodge, and you'll hear the first reunion by THE
SHOCKWAVES
>since 1986 with all four original members. We'll do most or all of the
>songs
>I mentioned above!!!
>
>Stretch Riedle
>(drummer)
One big difference I see in your explanation is that Jim already has a long
track record with the music community...he has released several albums/cds
as the Mermen, he has performed hundreds of live shows, and the public
pretty much knows who he is, so if he takes on a side project he already has
a crowd anxiously waiting to hear him play.
With a new or startup band, you don't have a track record to cull from,
except probably a few friends who know you as a musician.
Neal, I agree with you...the Mermen are all about 'innovative guitar
instrumentals', and I wouldn't expect them to change their focus just to do
cover tunes.
Stretch Riedle
(drummer)
At 04:24 PM 10/9/05 -0700, Neal S. wrote:
>When it comes to this, the greatest example i see is
>Jim Thomas of the Mermen.
>In my mind the MERMEN means 'innovative guitar
>instrumentals'. Now the mermen havent released an
>album in a long time. Jim needs money. Does Jim start
>playing covers with the Mermen to pick up more on a
>niche. Heck no, it would destroy the Mermen brand. So
>he started a band called the Shi-TOnes, to do all
>sorts of covers.
>
>What do you think ?
This is very simple. Play what you enjoy playing.End of story. Miller
--- In , "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
>
> danny,
>
> you should start building your band now the way you
> 'see it' in the future. Do you want to create your own
> system ( originals ) or play an exisiting proven
> system ( covers ).
>
> Either way youre going to lose some percentage. If you
> play all covers you will lose people like me, who are
> always looking for new innovative music, but you will
> gain some hardcore surfers. But whats your topshelf
> with playing covers, money wise, i see very little
> room for dollars once youre playing gigs for money.
>
> If you want to build your band as original, i wouldnt
> do many/any covers, because i think your youd be
> watering down your band brand. If you do all covers
> and slowly put in originals, it will take you much
> longer to get to your "original music vision" and it
> might be hard to shake the "cover brand" you already
> put in your listeners minds.
>
> When it comes to this, the greatest example i see is
> Jim Thomas of the Mermen.
> In my mind the MERMEN means 'innovative guitar
> instrumentals'. Now the mermen havent released an
> album in a long time. Jim needs money. Does Jim start
> playing covers with the Mermen to pick up more on a
> niche. Heck no, it would destroy the Mermen brand. So
> he started a band called the Shi-TOnes, to do all
> sorts of covers.
>
> What do you think ?
>
>
>
>
> --- snydr@s... wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > As I've mentioned earlier, I'm in the process of
> > putting a band
> > together, and it's going well - I'm actually finding
> > people who want to
> > play this music! But there's one question that
> > inevitably comes up
> > when discussing the direction of the band: should
> > we play covers of
> > classic surf tunes? A simple question?... no it
> > isn't. Buried in the
> > heart of that question are some more questions, such
> > as:
> >
> > Do you want to get gigs?
> > Do you want to make enough money to cover expenses?
> > Is it more important that more people get to hear
> > some of your
> > originals, rather than some people hear all of your
> > originals?
> > Will you be bored playing songs you've heard a
> > thousand times over the
> > last 30 odd years?
> > Will your band-mates get frustrated from not getting
> > a lot of gigs and
> > quit the band prematurely?
> >
> >
> > Music for me is about creative expression and doing
> > something unique
> > (however slightly) and I've found that building the
> > songs are just as
> > much fun as playing them. However, by limiting us
> > to strictly
> > originals and covers of songs that we like, I may be
> > "cutting off my
> > nose to spite my face". So I look to my "Brotherhood
> > of the Springs"
> > for their vastly greater experience in these matters
> > and for some
> > sagely advice.
> >
> > Danny Snyder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
The Beloved Invaders get a lot of gigs in Colorado, we stay very busy
from Memorial Day to Labor Day with a good measure of ski ares gigs
in late winter. We mix up our sets with "surf classics" and
originals. Both go over well. I think we'd get less gigs if we
didn't play the classics.
We like playing the classic tunes and putting our own spin and energy
level into them, and the crowd responds. Some of them, like
Pipeline, are really great compositions. Some of them are infantile
(Hi Chris) but still have a great energy.
I think you will get more gigs if you mix in the classics and can
also have them in your back pocket to repsond to requests.
If you write a lot of really great tunes then eventually you can
become a Slacktone or Los Straitjackets, but that's a tall order.
Boulder Bob
The Beloved Invaders
That's a very tough question.
it all depends on your sound/style, and what kind of gigs you
want to play.
I know I bring them up alot, but...
The Insect Surfers have 3 cd's of Originals, cept for 1 cover on each
and they can play 3 sets of that if they have to.
Occasionally they will throw in some crazy jam versions of
Jack the Ripper, Mr. Moto, Baja, Batman/Spiderman, etc.
But they play quite often, and get pretty decent money and play
venues that are your typical surf band venue. Of couurse The
Insects aren't your typical surf band. :-)
I'd say if your going for a trad. sound. start off learning
some covers to get the feel for playing together. Then as you get
comfortable start writing tunes that give your style a spotlight.
But keep the covers in rotation, so if you need to do a party
( 2,3,4 sets). You've got those to fall back on to fill up time,
and some General Public people might recognize them, and dance.
Where if you play all original, you'll get people standing there
thinking " who originally did this" ??? ha ha
My perspective from a surf fans point of view
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , snydr@s... wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> As I've mentioned earlier, I'm in the process of putting a band
> together, and it's going well - I'm actually finding people who
want to
> play this music! But there's one question that inevitably comes up
> when discussing the direction of the band: should we play covers
of
> classic surf tunes? A simple question?... no it isn't. Buried in
the
> heart of that question are some more questions, such as:
>
> Do you want to get gigs?
> Do you want to make enough money to cover expenses?
> Is it more important that more people get to hear some of your
> originals, rather than some people hear all of your originals?
> Will you be bored playing songs you've heard a thousand times over
the
> last 30 odd years?
> Will your band-mates get frustrated from not getting a lot of gigs
and
> quit the band prematurely?
>
>
> Music for me is about creative expression and doing something
unique
> (however slightly) and I've found that building the songs are just
as
> much fun as playing them. However, by limiting us to strictly
> originals and covers of songs that we like, I may be "cutting off
my
> nose to spite my face". So I look to my "Brotherhood of the
Springs"
> for their vastly greater experience in these matters and for some
> sagely advice.
>
> Danny Snyder
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Danny, I think Big Tiki Jeff is absolutely correct. We've had gigs where we've
had to play 4 and 5 sets. Out of the 44 originals we've recorded and released
on CD, we keep about 36 in practice for gigs. The average 45-minute set takes
about 12-14 songs, so we have nearly 3 full sets of originals we COULD perform
if called upon to do so. However, many of our gigs, are general outdoor events
such as car shows, parties, street fairs, etc, where the audiences are much more
likely going to relate to a band playing familiar old hits, than a bunch of
unfamiliar originals, (no matter how cool we think they are!)
If we're playing to a general audience, we typically do a mix of 60-70% covers
and 30-40% originals. We're constantly seeking to replace tired and overplayed
covers with new, less obvious covers that are still familiar and recognizable to
a general audience. For instance, the Duane Eddy song, "Because They're Young",
strikes a real chord with our audiences, even though the more obvious song to do
would be "Rebel Rouser", which we also perform. Currently we're adding a
super-energetic early 60's dance song that surprisingly The Ventures never
covered, but is a definite crowd-pleaser. I've taken an old Jean Luc Ponty
number and arranged it in trad-surf style, and we're working on that also.
Seems to me, you can exercise a lot of creativity in re-working old songs into
covers, and if you have a decent collection of non-surf oldies, you'll be able
to find a few, I'm sure, that would lend themselves to this treatment.
We've kept Longboard Ranch active, alive, and well-exposed to the public for 6
years. Our very first paid gig, (when the band was less than 6 months old!) was
playing the main stage at the Glendale Cruise Night on July 27, 1999 - the same
stage that has featured (in other years) Dick Dale, The Surfaris, The Champs and
other high profile well-established acts. What got us this (almost unbelievable
to me now!) fantastic gig, was a demo tape that featured FIVE classic surf
covers, rendered mistake-free and extremely close to the originals in execution
and sound. If we had sent a tape of originals, we'd have never been considered!
People who were at that show continue to surface, and buy our CD,s and come to
our more recent shows, to hear our originals! A lot of opportunities to play
our originals in public, and sell our CD's, and get groovy reviews, would have
been TOTALLY LOST, had we insisted on playing just originals. Indeed, it would
have been "cutting off our noses to spite our faces" as you say.
In my opinion, had we taken the "originals-only" approach, we'd be a hobby-band
relegated mainly to playing in rehearsal studios, and our awareness-factor out
there would be a tiny fraction of what it is. It's a choice each band has to
make, and I'm not telling you what your priorities should be. However, in our
case, we live to play in front of audiences. I just love hearing applause at the
end of one of my original songs, and watching as total strangers come up to the
merch table and at the end of 2 hours we've sold another 15-20 CD's!
We wouldn't be at this point, were it not for our continued willingness to play
numerous covers during our live shows.
Best of Luck
Bruce D
There's no such thing as too much reverb!
Jeff <> wrote:
I'd say if your going for a trad. sound. start off learning
some covers to get the feel for playing together. Then as you get
comfortable start writing tunes that give your style a spotlight.
But keep the covers in rotation, so if you need to do a party
( 2,3,4 sets). You've got those to fall back on to fill up time,
and some General Public people might recognize them, and dance.
Where if you play all original, you'll get people standing there
thinking " who originally did this" ??? ha ha
Danny Snyder wrote:
But there's one question that inevitably comes up
> when discussing the direction of the band: should we play covers
of
> classic surf tunes? A simple question?... no it isn't.
.
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Bruce D
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, and BOTH Slacktone and Los Straitjackets still play covers at their live
shows!
Bruce D
Bob Cannistraro <> wrote:
If you write a lot of really great tunes then eventually you can
become a Slacktone or Los Straitjackets, but that's a tall order.
Boulder Bob
The Beloved Invaders
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We play a large majority of original tunes at our shows. We do play a
couple covers but nobody in our audience recognizes anything but
Misirlou and even then that is nowhere near the majority of the
audience. Our audiences don't really know anything that we are
interested in. They love us anyway since we are different and "retro".
Covers we do with regularity are:
Misirlou
Squad Car
Pipeline/Sleepwalk Jam
I'm Happy Just to Dance With You
Somebody's Crying
and Don't Worry Baby
Pipeline and Sleepwalk have been recognized once or twice. Nobody has
ever know both of the songs though. And we had somebody who thought
they recognized Somebody's Crying, which is a Chris Isaak song.
We are in Seattle. I don't know where Danny is from, since this thread
is originally about him starting a band, but depending on where you
are from and what your audience is going to be you really don't have
to learn very many covers.
A big thank you to all who responded to my question. What an awesome
resource we have with this group! We may play music with mostly circa
1962 analog technology, but I sure love the modern age of communication
with the internet.
Stay tuned for how things turn out. I'm meeting with several different
drummers and guitarists this month, and I'll keep you posted. As
always, I'd appreciate any advice on or off list
that anyone has to offer.
Danny Snyder
Oakland
On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:59 PM, Jacob Dobner wrote:
> We play a large majority of original tunes at our shows. We do play a
> couple covers but nobody in our audience recognizes anything but
> Misirlou and even then that is nowhere near the majority of the
> audience. Our audiences don't really know anything that we are
> interested in. They love us anyway since we are different and "retro".
>
> Covers we do with regularity are:
>
> Misirlou
> Squad Car
> Pipeline/Sleepwalk Jam
> I'm Happy Just to Dance With You
> Somebody's Crying
> and Don't Worry Baby
>
> Pipeline and Sleepwalk have been recognized once or twice. Nobody has
> ever know both of the songs though. And we had somebody who thought
> they recognized Somebody's Crying, which is a Chris Isaak song.
>
> We are in Seattle. I don't know where Danny is from, since this thread
> is originally about him starting a band, but depending on where you
> are from and what your audience is going to be you really don't have
> to learn very many covers.
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> ⪠ Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> Â
> ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Â
> Â
> ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
