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Hi,
I too am curious about Mosrites. Has anyone played the "real" thing?
Impressions?
I've read they have very hot pickups, and they seem rather large (wide) like
a Jazzmasters. I was wondering if they hummed like Jazzmasters? Do they hum
cancel when both pickups are on? And whats up with that bridge? Looks like a
roller bridge with a kind of Bigsby'ish trem system. Interesting. And a zero
fret? Hmmmm.
BN
Well I've played the 'real' thing, only it was a Mosrite Celebrity
not a Ventures model. Same pick-ups and tremolo, only it's a hollow
body. The zero-fret is supposed to help intonation. The mosely
tremolo works on the same principal as a Bigsby. Mosrite pick-ups
are basically p-90's, very hot, they put out around 13k as opossed to
a strat output which is around 6k! Someone told me that mosrite pick-
ups were made by Carvin, but I don't know if this is true or not.
The Japanese re-issues are made of basswood, which is not correct.
For some reason the Japanese love basswood- all the MIJ Fender re-
issues are made of basswood as well. Some say basswood isn't that
different tone wise from alder or ash, but I really don't know, all I
can say is my MIJ strat sounds like a strat. The really ironic thing
is that the re-issue Mosrites cost about the same as the orignals.
Also, there's a guy in Austrailia that makes handmade replicas for
about a thousand bucks. I don't remember the site url but his company
is called Tym's guitars.
I've played a few including an original type I with the neck through body. I
think they suck as "players" guitars but they are very fun in their nostalgic
appearence and sound. The single coil pick-ups are overwound but I think too
the higher output legend has been overblown over the years. They don't sound
that much unlike a strat. It was a roller bridge on the ones I've played. The
neck is too thin and the microfrets are not a good idear for quick playing,
you get to much wood when you fret a note.
Marty
<<Hi,
I too am curious about Mosrites. Has anyone played the "real" thing?
Impressions?
I've read they have very hot pickups, and they seem rather large (wide) like
a Jazzmasters. I was wondering if they hummed like Jazzmasters? Do they hum
cancel when both pickups are on? And whats up with that bridge? Looks like a
roller bridge with a kind of Bigsby'ish trem system. Interesting. And a zero
fret? Hmmmm.
BN
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi...yes I heard that about Carvin making the pickups. How did the
trem feel? Smooth? Was it like a Jag/Jazzmaster trem or did it have
more "reach", like a Strat trem?
I have never understood the zero-fret. You see them a lot on no-name
el-cheapo guitars. Aren't they below the nut anyway? I mean, when you
pluck an open string, the string is still fixed between the nut and
the bridge, right? Or does the string does contact the zero-fret? If
not, I can't see how they do anything.
I did run across that Australian guys web page. It looked like he did
nice work. Those Mosrite reissues from Japan also look nice, but I
agree, they are expensive. They even say "Mosrite of California" on
them!!! I think there is a company that imports them to the USA
(Guitar Punk?).
A while back a guy hired by the Mosley estate was on E-bay selling
something like 30 of the Ventures model guitars. They were supposedly
made by Semie Mosley at his last factory in the early to mid eighties
(I think). They had been in storage all this time. Almost all of them
went for over $3000...I think a few were in the $4000 range.
--- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "viktor423" <vd423@y...> wrote:
> Well I've played the 'real' thing, only it was a Mosrite
Celebrity
> not a Ventures model. Same pick-ups and tremolo, only it's a
hollow
> body. The zero-fret is supposed to help intonation. The mosely
> tremolo works on the same principal as a Bigsby. Mosrite pick-ups
> are basically p-90's, very hot, they put out around 13k as opossed
to
> a strat output which is around 6k! Someone told me that mosrite
pick-
> ups were made by Carvin, but I don't know if this is true or not.
> The Japanese re-issues are made of basswood, which is not correct.
> For some reason the Japanese love basswood- all the MIJ Fender re-
> issues are made of basswood as well. Some say basswood isn't that
> different tone wise from alder or ash, but I really don't know, all
I
> can say is my MIJ strat sounds like a strat. The really ironic
thing
> is that the re-issue Mosrites cost about the same as the orignals.
> Also, there's a guy in Austrailia that makes handmade replicas for
> about a thousand bucks. I don't remember the site url but his
company
> is called Tym's guitars.
The tremolo as far as I remember, felt sort of like a Bigsby, but
with more range- not as much as a strat however. The string contacts
the zero fret, sort of takes the nuts place, and yea, I've only ever
seen them on cheap
guitars.
--- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "xarxas" <bneal@z...> wrote:
> Hi...yes I heard that about Carvin making the pickups. How did the
> trem feel? Smooth? Was it like a Jag/Jazzmaster trem or did it have
> more "reach", like a Strat trem?
>
> I have never understood the zero-fret. You see them a lot on no-
name
> el-cheapo guitars. Aren't they below the nut anyway? I mean, when
you
> pluck an open string, the string is still fixed between the nut and
> the bridge, right? Or does the string does contact the zero-fret?
If
> not, I can't see how they do anything.
>
> I did run across that Australian guys web page. It looked like he
did
> nice work. Those Mosrite reissues from Japan also look nice, but I
> agree, they are expensive. They even say "Mosrite of California" on
> them!!! I think there is a company that imports them to the USA
> (Guitar Punk?).
>
> A while back a guy hired by the Mosley estate was on E-bay selling
> something like 30 of the Ventures model guitars. They were
supposedly
> made by Semie Mosley at his last factory in the early to mid
eighties
> (I think). They had been in storage all this time. Almost all of
them
> went for over $3000...I think a few were in the $4000 range.
>
> --- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "viktor423" <vd423@y...> wrote:
> > Well I've played the 'real' thing, only it was a Mosrite
> Celebrity
> > not a Ventures model. Same pick-ups and tremolo, only it's a
> hollow
> > body. The zero-fret is supposed to help intonation. The mosely
> > tremolo works on the same principal as a Bigsby. Mosrite pick-
ups
> > are basically p-90's, very hot, they put out around 13k as
opossed
> to
> > a strat output which is around 6k! Someone told me that mosrite
> pick-
> > ups were made by Carvin, but I don't know if this is true or
not.
> > The Japanese re-issues are made of basswood, which is not
correct.
> > For some reason the Japanese love basswood- all the MIJ Fender re-
> > issues are made of basswood as well. Some say basswood isn't
that
> > different tone wise from alder or ash, but I really don't know,
all
> I
> > can say is my MIJ strat sounds like a strat. The really ironic
> thing
> > is that the re-issue Mosrites cost about the same as the
orignals.
> > Also, there's a guy in Austrailia that makes handmade replicas
for
> > about a thousand bucks. I don't remember the site url but his
> company
> > is called Tym's guitars.
I used to have a Moserite MarkI (Ventures model without the Ventures
logo, made after the Mosrite/Ventures split).
The pickups were very, very hot for single coils, and I don't
remember it having a great deal of hum. I used it in the studio once
and can't remember hum being a problem. My Jazzmaster, on the other
hand...
Anyway, I regret having sold the Mosrite because it would come in
real handy for the Joe Maphis stuff I like to play, but it just
didn't seem to play nicely with heavy strings. It liked .11s which is
just too light for me.
--- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "viktor423" <vd423@y...> wrote:
> the zero fret, sort of takes the nuts place,
> and yea, I've only ever seen them on cheap
> guitars.
Hmmm...I wouldn't call Gretsch guitars "cheap".
I wouldn't call Gretsch cheap either, but I didn't know they had a
zero fret. As far as the neck, I was refering to the flat
radius.
--- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "bighollowtwang" <bighollowtwang@y...>
wrote:
> --- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "viktor423" <vd423@y...> wrote:
> > the zero fret, sort of takes the nuts place,
> > and yea, I've only ever seen them on cheap
> > guitars.
>
> Hmmm...I wouldn't call Gretsch guitars "cheap".
Thanks for clearing that up. I can see how it makes cutting a nut
easier.
I am not sure I buy the "helps the intonation" argument...I am sure
people argue that both ways.
Isn't there some system out there that provides individual string
adjustments at the nut for finer control of string length (thus
intonation)? Kind of like having 6 zero frets, one for each string?
No disrespect toward the Gretch either Zak....I've never seen one in
person. :^)
--- In SurfGuitar101@y..., "mark scialabba" <xscialabbax@s...> wrote:
>
> The zero frets DO contact the string. It makes a open string sound
uniform to a fretted note. They also help with the intonation.
> Most cheap guitars use them because when you have a zero fret, the
note doesn't really affect anything. They wont have to worry about
cutting the nut correctly with the zero fret.
>
> Ive only seen them on really expensive guitars, and really cheap
guitars.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xarxas
> To: SurfGuitar101@y...
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:56 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Mosrites
>
>
> I have never understood the zero-fret. You see them a lot on no-
name
> el-cheapo guitars. Aren't they below the nut anyway? I mean, when
you
> pluck an open string, the string is still fixed between the nut
and
> the bridge, right? Or does the string does contact the zero-fret?
If
> not, I can't see how they do anything.
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The zero frets DO contact the string. It makes a open string sound uniform to a
fretted note. They also help with the intonation.
Most cheap guitars use them because when you have a zero fret, the note doesn't
really affect anything. They wont have to worry about cutting the nut correctly
with the zero fret.
Ive only seen them on really expensive guitars, and really cheap guitars.
----- Original Message -----
From: xarxas
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:56 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Mosrites
I have never understood the zero-fret. You see them a lot on no-name
el-cheapo guitars. Aren't they below the nut anyway? I mean, when you
pluck an open string, the string is still fixed between the nut and
the bridge, right? Or does the string does contact the zero-fret? If
not, I can't see how they do anything.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,
I can't remember if I asked this before. But seeing the Mosrite guitars on
the Nebulas CD reminds me of my periodic interest in these guitars. Not
having played one or seen one in real life, can you guys tell me (talking
about the "standard" Ventures model style)
What is the scale length on these?
Is the trem subtle like a Jag/Jazzmaster or does it dive bomb like a strats?
The pickups are hot wound single coils, right? I heard Carvin made them.
I have heard these advertised as "fretless wonders" meaning very small and
low frets. True? Is this hard to play with thick flatwounds?
How do they feel/handle compared to say a Jaguar or Strat?
Any comments on how they sound compared to say a Jag/Strat?
I am mainly interested in the vintage ones but if you've played a Japanese
reissue I'd be interested in that too.
Thanks!
BN
I play both an original and a recently made reissue Mosrite from Japan. The
sound of the two is identical. They're full scale, 26 inches or so. It's a
bigsby style trem with a roller bridge and, as such, it's pretty different
from any of the Fender trems (different, not better). I don't consider the
Mosrite to be a "players" guitar, but it is fun to look at and does have a
good sound. Everything else about the guitar is just wrong. The neck is too
narrow. The single coil pick-ups are over-wound, and no they were not made by
Carvin (Mosely wound many of them himself). The frets are too low (for quick
fretting, your fingers should meet with less wood so higher frets are the way
to go or better yet, a scalloped fretboard ala John McLaughlin). The cut-away
is backwards (or at least it appears that way). I haven't dared to put the
13's on either the original or the reissue. I have 11's on there and that's
even too heavy as they pull the whammy bar a bit low. The guitar was made
with slinkier strings in mind. But the action is great and the finish on the
reissue is beautiful.
Their sound is not as bright as a strat.
Marty
>
> Hi,
>
> I can't remember if I asked this before. But seeing the Mosrite guitars on
> the Nebulas CD reminds me of my periodic interest in these guitars. Not
> having played one or seen one in real life, can you guys tell me (talking
> about the "standard" Ventures model style)
>
> What is the scale length on these?
>
> Is the trem subtle like a Jag/Jazzmaster or does it dive bomb like a s
> trats?
>
> The pickups are hot wound single coils, right? I heard Carvin made them.
>
> I have heard these advertised as "fretless wonders" meaning very small and
> low frets. True? Is this hard to play with thick flatwounds?
>
> How do they feel/handle compared to say a Jaguar or Strat?
>
> Any comments on how they sound compared to say a Jag/Strat?
>
> I am mainly interested in the vintage ones but if you've played a Japanese
> reissue I'd be interested in that too.
>
> Thanks!
>
> BN
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hey Brian,
I answered your questions as best I could down below.
>Hi,
>
>I can't remember if I asked this before. But seeing the Mosrite guitars on
>the Nebulas CD reminds me of my periodic interest in these guitars. Not
>having played one or seen one in real life, can you guys tell me (talking
>about the "standard" Ventures model style)
>
>What is the scale length on these?
25 glorious inches.
>
>Is the trem subtle like a Jag/Jazzmaster or does it dive bomb like a
>strats?
It's uses a bigsby style tremolo, and can be ugly in the hands of an
amateur, but lethal in the hands of a professional. Yes, it can dive. It's
also VERY sensitive and one overzealous dive and your screaming "who's got
the tuner!?!"
>
>The pickups are hot wound single coils, right? I heard Carvin made them.
SUPER-hot. If you come off of Jag or Jazz settings, you best be prepared to
turn down.
>
>I have heard these advertised as "fretless wonders" meaning very small and
>low frets. True?
VERY true. Actually, you don't even have to touch the strings to the frets,
just *think* about the note, and its there. In all honesty, the action is
WAY low, and the strings are VERY close together.
Is this hard to play with thick flatwounds?
I use Danelectro vintage 10's on it, and I wouldn't dare put anything else.
I don't know what the neck can handle, but I'm not about to sac my baby in
an effort to be the guy to know.
>
>How do they feel/handle compared to say a Jaguar or Strat?
They put you in a different playing posture, thats for sure. If you're doing
a lot of palm muting, it gets tricky because the tremolo has the strings
isolated much higher off the body than a jag, so you have to make more of an
effort to "float" your hand over the bridge, as opposed to just slathering
it across the bridge.
Oh, and those strings are CLOSE! but I think I said that already.
>
>Any comments on how they sound compared to say a Jag/Strat?
They're WAY more finnicky than a Fender, and abusing the volume knob can
definitely get you into some tough ground sound-wise. However, when the
Mosrite is dialled in, there's nothing like it. Period.
>
>I am mainly interested in the vintage ones but if you've played a Japanese
>reissue I'd be interested in that too.
Mine's a jap reissue. If you want one, talk to Kevin Mazz at KTMguitars.com.
He Da Man.
-Dano
-=The Nebulas=-
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> 11's on there and that's
> even too heavy as they pull the whammy bar a bit
> low. The guitar was made
> with slinkier strings in mind. But the action is
> great and the finish on the
> reissue is beautiful.
My friend was putting some really really heavy gauge
strings on his Gretsch 6120 and I believe he had to
put more springs under the bigsby. The high gauge
strings also made the action kind of stink. I assume
something similar would happen.
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You can put more than 1 spring under a Bigsby????????
------------------------ wrote:
------------------------
>> 11's on there and that's
>> even too heavy as they pull the whammy bar a bit
>> low. The guitar was made
>> with slinkier strings in mind. But the action is
>> great and the finish on the
>> reissue is beautiful.
>
>My friend was putting some really really heavy gauge
>strings on his Gretsch 6120 and I believe he had to
>put more springs under the bigsby. The high gauge
>strings also made the action kind of stink. I assume
>something similar would happen.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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>
Yeah,
An additional spring would probably just pop out. I intend to try a fiber washer
under the spring.
Marty
<<You might be able to put a heavier gauge spring under there, but there's no
room for additional springs.
>From: "" <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Mosrites
>Date: Fri 12 Apr 2002 15:51:33 MET
>
>You can put more than 1 spring under a Bigsby????????
>
>------------------------
> wrote:
>------------------------
>
> >> 11's on there and that's
> >> even too heavy as they pull the whammy bar a bit
> >> low. The guitar was made
> >> with slinkier strings in mind. But the action is
> >> great and the finish on the
> >> reissue is beautiful.
> >
> >My friend was putting some really really heavy gauge
> >strings on his Gretsch 6120 and I believe he had to
> >put more springs under the bigsby. The high gauge
> >strings also made the action kind of stink. I assume
> >something similar would happen.
> >
If you want to know what a Bigsby can do, the 'king' of them has to be
Lonnie Mack (www.lonniemack.com). He uses it so well it's scary, and he's
the only picker I ever saw have a callus on his pinky from using the trem
bar. He never 'surfed' but his rendition of "Memphis" parallels surf guitar
as to what was going on in the R&B side of rock instrumentals around
1962-63. His best work is his 1984 album "Strike Like Lightning" if you
really want to hear some shit... SRV co-produced and plays on a lot of
tracks.. "Double Whammy" would've been a hell of a surf tune had they only
used a 'verb.. sigh...
Robb
> >
> >Is the trem subtle like a Jag/Jazzmaster or does it dive bomb like a
> >strats?
>
> It's uses a bigsby style tremolo, and can be ugly in the hands of an
> amateur, but lethal in the hands of a professional. Yes, it can dive. It's
> also VERY sensitive and one overzealous dive and your screaming "who's got
> the tuner!?!"
We both have the same model. The '65 Excellent. We bought them
from Michael at My Rare Guitars.com thinking it would be cool to
have matching Mosrites. neither of us can play them very well, and
sometimes they just don't have the sound you want for the material
we're doing. someday we might bust them out for a ventures
tribute. They sure are cool looking guitars.
I noticed Marty plays Mosrites - what models, year, etc?
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> I was also admiring the Mosrites on your site, Chris. It looks as
if the other guitarist has an original '65 or is that the Japanese
copy they call the Custom '65? Is yours the "Excellent"? All of
those Japanese models really were very well made. It's a shame they
had their hand slapped and had to stop production. I also agree
about the difficult necks, but they have a great tone.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:05 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Mosrites, was Re: Fender Jaguar
Baritone/Bass VI finished
>
>
>
> --- In , Brian Neal <brian@s...>
wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> > Nice job on the website, BTW.
>
> Thanks Brian - I't's getting better all the time.
> >
> > Just wanted to ask a follow up question, I see you have a
Mosrite
> also.
> > Is it an original or a copy (if so what kind)? How does it
compare
> to
> > your Jag & Jazzmaster?
>
> The Mosrite is a japanese reissue. It says "Mosrite of
> California" and has the Ventures logo on the headstock. It's
really
> a well built guitar, and has that Mosrite sound. It's hard to
> play. Skinny neck, tight string spacing. As I improve as a
guitar
> player, I can finally struggle through a few songs with it, but
i
> really have to concentrate. jags and JM's are much freindlier
to
> play I think.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I also have an Excellent as well as the Super Custom '65, the '63 Royal
(sidejack), an original '66 Ventures Model XII, and an '89 Tone Chamber. The
Tone Chamber can be seen at and the
excellent with Jon's original Mosrite Ventures Model Bass at .
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:35 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Mosrites
We both have the same model. The '65 Excellent. We bought them
from Michael at My Rare Guitars.com thinking it would be cool to
have matching Mosrites. neither of us can play them very well, and
sometimes they just don't have the sound you want for the material
we're doing. someday we might bust them out for a ventures
tribute. They sure are cool looking guitars.
I noticed Marty plays Mosrites - what models, year, etc?
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> I was also admiring the Mosrites on your site, Chris. It looks as
if the other guitarist has an original '65 or is that the Japanese
copy they call the Custom '65? Is yours the "Excellent"? All of
those Japanese models really were very well made. It's a shame they
had their hand slapped and had to stop production. I also agree
about the difficult necks, but they have a great tone.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:05 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Mosrites, was Re: Fender Jaguar
Baritone/Bass VI finished
>
>
>
> --- In , Brian Neal <brian@s...>
wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> > Nice job on the website, BTW.
>
> Thanks Brian - I't's getting better all the time.
> >
> > Just wanted to ask a follow up question, I see you have a
Mosrite
> also.
> > Is it an original or a copy (if so what kind)? How does it
compare
> to
> > your Jag & Jazzmaster?
>
> The Mosrite is a japanese reissue. It says "Mosrite of
> California" and has the Ventures logo on the headstock. It's
really
> a well built guitar, and has that Mosrite sound. It's hard to
> play. Skinny neck, tight string spacing. As I improve as a
guitar
> player, I can finally struggle through a few songs with it, but
i
> really have to concentrate. jags and JM's are much freindlier
to
> play I think.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
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>
> U.S./Canada
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>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Someone's got some spare cash laying around :)
Our old obese drummer had a excellent 65 and it sounded great.
Couldn't put heavy strings on it tho, and man, the neck was so
thin! I thought if I could play a Jaguar I'd be able to play
anything (What a good debate that would be, "Jaguar vs Mosrite's
playability")
I was in Vegas last May and had to stop off at Ed Romans, what a fat
idiot, anyway he had the sidejacks, and the regular Mosrite models.
I think the side jack was around 4 grand and the regular was
$2500.00. No Japanese reissue is worth that.
Bill
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> I also have an Excellent as well as the Super Custom '65, the '63
Royal (sidejack), an original '66 Ventures Model XII, and an '89
Tone Chamber. The Tone Chamber can be seen at and the excellent with Jon's
original Mosrite Ventures Model Bass at .
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:35 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Mosrites
>
>
>
> We both have the same model. The '65 Excellent. We bought them
> from Michael at My Rare Guitars.com thinking it would be cool
to
> have matching Mosrites. neither of us can play them very well,
and
> sometimes they just don't have the sound you want for the
material
> we're doing. someday we might bust them out for a ventures
> tribute. They sure are cool looking guitars.
> I noticed Marty plays Mosrites - what models, year, etc?
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens"
> <mctippens@e...> wrote:
> > I was also admiring the Mosrites on your site, Chris. It looks
as
> if the other guitarist has an original '65 or is that the
Japanese
> copy they call the Custom '65? Is yours the "Excellent"? All of
> those Japanese models really were very well made. It's a shame
they
> had their hand slapped and had to stop production. I also agree
> about the difficult necks, but they have a great tone.
> > -Marty
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Chris
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:05 PM
> > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Mosrites, was Re: Fender Jaguar
> Baritone/Bass VI finished
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , Brian Neal
<brian@s...>
> wrote:
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > Nice job on the website, BTW.
> >
> > Thanks Brian - I't's getting better all the time.
> > >
> > > Just wanted to ask a follow up question, I see you have a
> Mosrite
> > also.
> > > Is it an original or a copy (if so what kind)? How does it
> compare
> > to
> > > your Jag & Jazzmaster?
> >
> > The Mosrite is a japanese reissue. It says "Mosrite of
> > California" and has the Ventures logo on the headstock.
It's
> really
> > a well built guitar, and has that Mosrite sound. It's hard
to
> > play. Skinny neck, tight string spacing. As I improve as a
> guitar
> > player, I can finally struggle through a few songs with it,
but
> i
> > really have to concentrate. jags and JM's are much
freindlier
> to
> > play I think.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
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