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-Ivan,
Hope you don't even own the Jorgen Ingman Version.
I don't, and am kinda against getting it, because of the whole
controversy. My dad always says oh that's The Jorgen Ingman
song. I only know the Shadows as the Only early one.
I don't recall hearing the JI or Ventures version.
speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
Longboard Ranch run off too?
Jeff(bigtikidude)
-- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...> wrote:
> --- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...>
> wrote:
> > It may have been an attempt to grab the hit for himself but that
was
> > the name of the game in those days. The Beatles hadn't yet
convinced
> > everyone that you were s'pose to write your own hits.
>
> Except that this is EXACTLY what the Shadows did - first with Cliff
> Richard, for whom they were already in '59 and early '60 (pre-Apache)
> writing more than a few big hits, and then for themselves (for
> example, FBI, Foot Tapper, and Shindig - all pre-Beatlemania). They
> never had to stoop to stealing other people's hits.
>
> And who's ever heard of Ingmann POST-Apache, anyway? There's no
> comparison. You may like his version, but the magnitude of
achievement
> of the two performers isn't even close.
Jeff <> wrote:
speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
Longboard Ranch run off too?
Jeff(bigtikidude)
Hey Jeff,
You didn't see my post yesterday, responding to Marty? I said that as much as I
loved the Jorgen Ingmann version of Apache, when I heard The Shadows cover, I
was blown away with awe, and that I considered The Shadows rendition of Apache
to have been filled with pure inspiration.
Take care BTD
Regards,
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you lived in the US in the sixties, you likely had no idea who the
Shadows were, but you heard Jorgen Ingmann's "Apache" on the radio all
the time.
How can you condemn the Ingmann version without hearing it? Beyond this
list, there is no controversy. It's not a "Shadows" song. They got it
from a song writer. It's just a matter of where you were at the time,
or your personal taste, nothing more.
Phil
--- Jeff <> wrote:
---------------------------------
-Ivan,
Hope you don't even own the Jorgen Ingman Version.
I don't, and am kinda against getting it, because of the whole
controversy. My dad always says oh that's The Jorgen Ingman
song. I only know the Shadows as the Only early one.
I don't recall hearing the JI or Ventures version.
speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
Longboard Ranch run off too?
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> If you lived in the US in the sixties, you likely had no idea who the
> Shadows were, but you heard Jorgen Ingmann's "Apache" on the radio
all
> the time.
No question.
> How can you condemn the Ingmann version without hearing it? Beyond
> this list, there is no controversy.
I have heard it, and even have the entire Ingmann "Apache" album
(where he's wearing the silly Indian chief headgear) and think it's
good - good in a sense of Les Paul, whom I'm a big fan of. It's not a
rock'n'roll song.
> It's not a "Shadows" song. They got it from a song writer.
Well, I don't think this is quite right. of course Lordan wrote the
melody, but to see the Shadows brilliance, listen to the version of
the song by Bert Weedon, an easy-listening Brit guitarist of the
time. He was quite popular, and Lordan first gave him the song. He
recorded it but didn't release it until after the Shadows had a hit
with their version. Weedon's version is boring, boring, boring. It's
got nothing. What makes Apache great, and what makes it just as much
of a Shadows songs as Walk, Don't Run is a Ventures song, is their
indivudual trademark sound and arrangement (and nevermind the intro
and outro, as well as the middle breakdown part, which all were
authored by the Shads). I do believe that the Shadows must get the at
least some of the credit for the greatness of that song - and BTW,
Ingmann copied the Shadows arrangement very closely.
> It's just a matter of where you were at the time,
> or your personal taste, nothing more.
Of course, nobody's arguing that. But I just want to make sure that
people understand is that it was the Shadows that made that song into
a classic, even if Ingmann's version was more popular in the US.
Ivan
Boycott Jorgen! ;-) I think that means we should boycott many great surf-instro
bands and the Ventures for the same reason. Even if they didn't have a hit with
Apache, many tried. And if they didn't try to grab Apache sales, they certainly
did with Miserlou, Wipe Out, Moto, etc...
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff
To:
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 8:49 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Shadows vs. Jorgen Ingman. was...Junior plays the
Ventures
-Ivan,
Hope you don't even own the Jorgen Ingman Version.
I don't, and am kinda against getting it, because of the whole
controversy. My dad always says oh that's The Jorgen Ingman
song. I only know the Shadows as the Only early one.
I don't recall hearing the JI or Ventures version.
speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
Longboard Ranch run off too?
Jeff(bigtikidude)
-- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...> wrote:
> --- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...>
> wrote:
> > It may have been an attempt to grab the hit for himself but that
was
> > the name of the game in those days. The Beatles hadn't yet
convinced
> > everyone that you were s'pose to write your own hits.
>
> Except that this is EXACTLY what the Shadows did - first with Cliff
> Richard, for whom they were already in '59 and early '60 (pre-Apache)
> writing more than a few big hits, and then for themselves (for
> example, FBI, Foot Tapper, and Shindig - all pre-Beatlemania). They
> never had to stoop to stealing other people's hits.
>
> And who's ever heard of Ingmann POST-Apache, anyway? There's no
> comparison. You may like his version, but the magnitude of
achievement
> of the two performers isn't even close.
.
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Yo Bruce,
You responded on UF2, that's why Big T didn't see it. When I start a war, I
often like to do it on more than one battle ground!
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: bruce duncan
To:
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Shadows vs. Jorgen Ingman. was...Junior plays
the Ventures
Jeff <> wrote:
speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
Longboard Ranch run off too?
Jeff(bigtikidude)
Hey Jeff,
You didn't see my post yesterday, responding to Marty? I said that as much as
I loved the Jorgen Ingmann version of Apache, when I heard The Shadows cover, I
was blown away with awe, and that I considered The Shadows rendition of Apache
to have been filled with pure inspiration.
Take care BTD
Regards,
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
Bruce D
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
SPONSORED LINKS Guitar music theory Stringed instruments Guitar music book
Guitar sheet music Guitar music sheets Guitar technique
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have to agree with Tiki Dude. Shawdows version of Apache is killer.
The acoustic guitar is a nice touch. If I was forced to pick the best
version I'd go with Jon & The Night Riders from Fiberglass Rocket,
IMHO. Still, Shadows version is a must hear.
You're using "Shadows song" in the association way, not ownership or
original. Now I understand w3hat you mean.
I never think of songs that way, any more than I think Surf Rider is a
Lively Ones song or Miserlou is a Dick Dale song, or Cecilia Ann is a
Pixies song. Their versions may be signature sounds and titles, but
they are covers.
Most if Ingmann's material is very weak as I see it, with only a couple
of exceptions. My reviews reflect that.
From a taste point of view, the Shadows are just not very interesting
to me. Others will have opposite views. It's a matter of taste. Weaned
on surf, I never "got" what they were doing, and the US marketing by
Atlantic of the Surfing lp made me feel ripped off as a kid, and that
has only slowly faded with time. The plethorsa of European Shadows
soundalikes (to my ear) didn't help either.
On the other hand, I loved and still highly respect the Tornados and
Jet Harris & Tony Meehan.
Phil
--- ipongrac <> wrote:
---------------------------------
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> If you lived in the US in the sixties, you likely had no idea who the
> Shadows were, but you heard Jorgen Ingmann's "Apache" on the radio
all
> the time.
No question.
> How can you condemn the Ingmann version without hearing it? Beyond
> this list, there is no controversy.
I have heard it, and even have the entire Ingmann "Apache" album
(where he's wearing the silly Indian chief headgear) and think it's
good - good in a sense of Les Paul, whom I'm a big fan of. It's not a
rock'n'roll song.
> It's not a "Shadows" song. They got it from a song writer.
Well, I don't think this is quite right. of course Lordan wrote the
melody, but to see the Shadows brilliance, listen to the version of
the song by Bert Weedon, an easy-listening Brit guitarist of the
time. He was quite popular, and Lordan first gave him the song. He
recorded it but didn't release it until after the Shadows had a hit
with their version. Weedon's version is boring, boring, boring. It's
got nothing. What makes Apache great, and what makes it just as much
of a Shadows songs as Walk, Don't Run is a Ventures song, is their
indivudual trademark sound and arrangement (and nevermind the intro
and outro, as well as the middle breakdown part, which all were
authored by the Shads). I do believe that the Shadows must get the at
least some of the credit for the greatness of that song - and BTW,
Ingmann copied the Shadows arrangement very closely.
> It's just a matter of where you were at the time,
> or your personal taste, nothing more.
Of course, nobody's arguing that. But I just want to make sure that
people understand is that it was the Shadows that made that song into
a classic, even if Ingmann's version was more popular in the US.
Ivan
.
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---------------------------------
-Sorry Phil,
I was born in 71.
I didn't hear the Song until 97 or so. :)
Jeff(bigtikidude)
-- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> If you lived in the US in the sixties, you likely had no idea who
the
> Shadows were, but you heard Jorgen Ingmann's "Apache" on the radio
all
> the time.
>
> How can you condemn the Ingmann version without hearing it? Beyond
this
> list, there is no controversy. It's not a "Shadows" song. They got
it
> from a song writer. It's just a matter of where you were at the
time,
> or your personal taste, nothing more.
>
> Phil
>
> --- Jeff <bigtikidude@y...> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> -Ivan,
> Hope you don't even own the Jorgen Ingman Version.
> I don't, and am kinda against getting it, because of the whole
> controversy. My dad always says oh that's The Jorgen Ingman
> song. I only know the Shadows as the Only early one.
> I don't recall hearing the JI or Ventures version.
>
> speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
> Longboard Ranch run off too?
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
Ah, the downside of youth shows its ugly head...
--- Jeff <> wrote:
---------------------------------
-Sorry Phil,
I was born in 71.
I didn't hear the Song until 97 or so. :)
Jeff(bigtikidude)
-- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> If you lived in the US in the sixties, you likely had no idea who
the
> Shadows were, but you heard Jorgen Ingmann's "Apache" on the radio
all
> the time.
>
> How can you condemn the Ingmann version without hearing it? Beyond
this
> list, there is no controversy. It's not a "Shadows" song. They got
it
> from a song writer. It's just a matter of where you were at the
time,
> or your personal taste, nothing more.
>
> Phil
>
> --- Jeff <bigtikidude@y...> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> -Ivan,
> Hope you don't even own the Jorgen Ingman Version.
> I don't, and am kinda against getting it, because of the whole
> controversy. My dad always says oh that's The Jorgen Ingman
> song. I only know the Shadows as the Only early one.
> I don't recall hearing the JI or Ventures version.
>
> speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
> Longboard Ranch run off too?
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
.
Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Hey Phil,
Let's leave his looks out of this................;D
---- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> Ah, the downside of youth shows its ugly head...
>
> --- Jeff <> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> -Sorry Phil,
> I was born in 71.
> I didn't hear the Song until 97 or so. :)
>
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
> -- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > If you lived in the US in the sixties, you likely had no idea who
> the
> > Shadows were, but you heard Jorgen Ingmann's "Apache" on the radio
> all
> > the time.
> >
> > How can you condemn the Ingmann version without hearing it? Beyond
> this
> > list, there is no controversy. It's not a "Shadows" song. They got
> it
> > from a song writer. It's just a matter of where you were at the
> time,
> > or your personal taste, nothing more.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- Jeff <bigtikidude@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > -Ivan,
> > Hope you don't even own the Jorgen Ingman Version.
> > I don't, and am kinda against getting it, because of the whole
> > controversy. My dad always says oh that's The Jorgen Ingman
> > song. I only know the Shadows as the Only early one.
> > I don't recall hearing the JI or Ventures version.
> >
> > speaking of the Jorgen Ingman version , where has Bruce from
> > Longboard Ranch run off too?
> >
> > Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
