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I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf music in the
1950's."
I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's Surfer's Choice
was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps that's debateable
in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty sure that it was
not released in the 50s...
"Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf Guitar' by his surfer
friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb, Dale's first album
called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album to be
commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by the pier in San
Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it. This album alone sold over
eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's and today in the 90's it
would be like 4 million."
Is there any truth to some of these claims and others made in the full
bio?
-Alex
Alex,
A word of caution about the musician known as Dick Dale.
If you believe everything he says, then he also invented the air we breathe
and the water we drink.
Stretch
At 06:09 AM 9/2/05 -0000, you wrote:
>I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
>
>
>
>I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf music in the
>1950's."
>
>I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's Surfer's Choice
>was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps that's debateable
>in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty sure that it was
>not released in the 50s...
>
>"Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf Guitar' by his surfer
>friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb, Dale's first album
>called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album to be
>commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by the pier in San
>Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it. This album alone sold over
>eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's and today in the 90's it
>would be like 4 million."
>
>Is there any truth to some of these claims and others made in the full
>bio?
>
>-Alex
--- In , "Alexander Thorburn Hoffman"
<indiglowblue@y...> wrote:
> I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
>
>
>
> I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf music in the
> 1950's."
Others have already pointed out that you can't believe everything
that DD says. Or even most things.
I'm at work now, so I don't have access to the articles on DD, but I
believe he only started performing on Balboa Island in 1960 or so,
first at the Rinky Dink Ice Cream place, or something, and then
opening up the Rendezvous Ballroom, which had been shut down at that
point, and throwing dances for the kids there. It appears almost
certain that he developed his early version of surf music during
that '60-'61 period, playing at those two places. Prior to that he
didn't seem to have much contact with the surfer community, but once
he started hanging out with them and surfing himself (motorcycles
were his main hobby before that - he was Von Zipper!), he picked up
the lingo such as "let's go trippin'". Also, he started playing
Miserlou at those dances, as someone asked him if he could play a
whole song on one string. And of course, it was during that time
that he started working with Leo Fender in development of the
Showman amp. There's no evidence that anything surf-music related
was going on prior to '60, though Dick often says it.
> I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's Surfer's
Choice
> was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps that's
debateable
> in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty sure that it
was
> not released in the 50s...
September of 1962, I think. And beat to the punch by both the Beach
Boys and the Challengers, right? However, many say that Let's Go
Trippin' is the first surf record in general.
> "Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf Guitar' by his
> surfer friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb,
That's probably true. He probably didn't start using the reverb
until early '62 or so (at earliest early '61), and he already had a
big following at the Rendezvous by then.
> Dale's first album
> called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album to be
> commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by the pier in San
> Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it.
Wrong. Both the Beach Boys and the Challengers came out before.
Though they didn't have a picture of Dick surfing on it, so as Greg
points out, literally speaking, he's right! BTW, Dick often writes
his own stuff, and is really bad with run-on sentences, as is clear
above. He needs an editor - but NOBODY edits Dick!
> This album alone sold over
> eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's
Nope. 1962.
> Is there any truth to some of these claims and others made in the
full bio?
Partial truth. He's also claimed that Miserlou was recorded in the
MID-FIFTIES!! That's just crazy. It's very clear that 1) it's a
Strat through a Showman, 2) it has reverb on it; 3) it was released
in '62. In the fifties, Dick wasn't playing a Strat, and certainly
not a Fender showman with a reverb unit. If you listen to Dick's
early singles, like Let's Go Trippin' (b/w Del-Tone Rock) and Jungle
Fever (b/w Shake 'n Stomp - the early version, not the version from
Surfer's Choice that most people know), the difference in tone is
huge. The lead guitar is bone dry, and not nearly as powerful as on
Miserlou. Often it sounds pretty distorted, especially in the high
frequencies, and even a bit thin. His progression through '61
and '62 is caught very well on record, and Dick is very confused
about all the dates. Or maybe he's changing the story to make
himself look like even more of a pioneer than he actually was. He's
never the one to be humble about his contributions - which were
admittedly huge.
Ivan
> I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
>
> I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf music in the
> 1950's."
While Dick certainly practiced his unique guitar style in the 50s, the term
"surf music" wasn't connected to his playing until 1961. There was a
specific time and place, and set of conditions that allowed that to happen.
> I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's Surfer's Choice
> was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps that's debateable
> in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty sure that it was
> not released in the 50s...
Don't be confused. "Surfer's Choice" wasn't released in the 50s. It was
released in 1962. First surf album? Debatable. Most likely, that claim
goes to the Challengers' "Surfbeat." Even the Mar-Kets' "Surfer's Stomp"
album was released before "Surfer's Choice."
> "Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf Guitar' by his surfer
> friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb, Dale's first album
> called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album to be
> commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by the pier in San
> Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it. This album alone sold over
> eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's and today in the 90's it
> would be like 4 million."
The above paragraph was poorly written, inaccurate, and misleading. It's
true that "Surfer's Choice" sold like hotcakes, primarily in Southern
California. I don't know how accurate the 88,000 figure is, but the number
was certainly quite large and in the many thousands. It just wasn't
released in the late 50s.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
or, as we discribe our link to his website on our page:
Dick Dale - we can hardly leave out the inventor of the genre (as
well as the reverb tank, heavy JBL speakers and possibly the
combustion-engine), can we?
WR
--- In , Jeff Riedle <stretch@c...>
wrote:
> Alex,
> A word of caution about the musician known as Dick Dale.
> If you believe everything he says, then he also invented the air we
breathe
> and the water we drink.
> Stretch
>
>
>
>
> At 06:09 AM 9/2/05 -0000, you wrote:
> >I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
> >
> >
> >
> >I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf music in the
> >1950's."
> >
> >I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's Surfer's
Choice
> >was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps that's
debateable
> >in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty sure that it
was
> >not released in the 50s...
> >
> >"Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf Guitar' by his
surfer
> >friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb, Dale's first
album
> >called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album to be
> >commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by the pier in San
> >Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it. This album alone sold
over
> >eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's and today in the
90's it
> >would be like 4 million."
> >
> >Is there any truth to some of these claims and others made in the
full
> >bio?
> >
> >-Alex
To add to Ivan's info, Dick's legend evolves every time he talks about
himself in the third person.
In the fifties, Dick was a kid in Massachusetts and in the service. He
loved Hank Williams, and wanted to be a country singer. When he moved
out to California in '59 or '60, he played country music, auditioned
for country bands, and was named "Dick Dale" by a country DJ or
promoter (Tiny something) hosting at some club.
At the Rinky Dink, Dick's music was likely the same as most of the
sounds on Surfers Choice, R&B and rock standards played in the corner
of a tiny shop where kids gathered.
What I recall reading about the Rendezvous from non Dick Dale sources
was that first night attendance records showed 17 paid admissions, and
no single door count over 350, though it was likely 1500. That's not a
bad number, it's just a 10th of the number Dick touts. This comes from
the woman who owned the Rendezvous and who did not like Dick much, or
rock 'n' roll. She may have her own ax to grind. Likely it's between
the two.
His sound then was chunky and rhythmic. They were a show band. His own
recounting reveals that some surfer kid came up to him one night
between sets and asked him to play an instrumental (in response to his
singing?). Dick said he went home that night and developed his first
instrumental, likely "Let's Go Trippin'." Maybe not, though, since he
did not reference a title when he told me this. It may have really been
a cover, or a riff that became soething else.
Dick now claims "Let's Go Trippin'" was written and recorded in the
fifties, but he cut it in late July or early August of 1961 according
to his own words to me at his house back in '88. That places it 3
months AFTER "Mr. Moto" was recorded, two years after it was written.
Scuttlebutt at the time of the release of surfers choice among the
surfer kids I knew back then was that Dick never surfed, that the
picture on the cover took all day to get. This has been repeated to me
by two different Southern California guys who said they were there
during the shoot, one of which was Thom Starr. I don't know Thom well
enough to vouch for his accuracy, but this was a widely "known" thing
in '62 and '63.
Surfers Choice is at best the third surf LP, with the Challengers "Surf
Beat" being clearly the first, and I think the Mar-ketts' Surfers Stomp
being the other. Surfers Choice was recorded at the Rendezvous, which
Dick only occupied from spring 1962 through 1962. It could not have
been recorded there in the fifties because Dick was in Massachusetts.
Mar-Ketts - Surfers Stomp (released 4.62)
Beach Boys - Surfin' Safari (10.62)
Dick Dale - Surfer Choice (11.62)
Challengers - Surf Beat (1.63) I thought this was earlier - late '62
As to "Miserlou" being cut in the fifties, some of the studio musicians
at the session confirm its origin as 1962. And tone... Ivan has it
nailed. I also don't think Leo fender developed the outboard tank
enough to use until early '62, and it was then that he worked with Dale
and Eddie Bertrand, among others.
The sad thing is that his real accomplishments are so huge, so
significant, that there's just no reason to fictionalize.
Forgive my lack of accuracy with detail; it's not handy to look up at
the Moment.
Phil
--- ipongrac <> wrote:
---------------------------------
--- In , "Alexander Thorburn Hoffman"
<indiglowblue@y...> wrote:
> I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
>
>
>
> I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf music in the
> 1950's."
Others have already pointed out that you can't believe everything
that DD says. Or even most things.
I'm at work now, so I don't have access to the articles on DD, but I
believe he only started performing on Balboa Island in 1960 or so,
first at the Rinky Dink Ice Cream place, or something, and then
opening up the Rendezvous Ballroom, which had been shut down at that
point, and throwing dances for the kids there. It appears almost
certain that he developed his early version of surf music during
that '60-'61 period, playing at those two places. Prior to that he
didn't seem to have much contact with the surfer community, but once
he started hanging out with them and surfing himself (motorcycles
were his main hobby before that - he was Von Zipper!), he picked up
the lingo such as "let's go trippin'". Also, he started playing
Miserlou at those dances, as someone asked him if he could play a
whole song on one string. And of course, it was during that time
that he started working with Leo Fender in development of the
Showman amp. There's no evidence that anything surf-music related
was going on prior to '60, though Dick often says it.
> I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's Surfer's
Choice
> was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps that's
debateable
> in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty sure that it
was
> not released in the 50s...
September of 1962, I think. And beat to the punch by both the Beach
Boys and the Challengers, right? However, many say that Let's Go
Trippin' is the first surf record in general.
> "Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf Guitar' by his
> surfer friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb,
That's probably true. He probably didn't start using the reverb
until early '62 or so (at earliest early '61), and he already had a
big following at the Rendezvous by then.
> Dale's first album
> called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album to be
> commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by the pier in San
> Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it.
Wrong. Both the Beach Boys and the Challengers came out before.
Though they didn't have a picture of Dick surfing on it, so as Greg
points out, literally speaking, he's right! BTW, Dick often writes
his own stuff, and is really bad with run-on sentences, as is clear
above. He needs an editor - but NOBODY edits Dick!
> This album alone sold over
> eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's
Nope. 1962.
> Is there any truth to some of these claims and others made in the
full bio?
Partial truth. He's also claimed that Miserlou was recorded in the
MID-FIFTIES!! That's just crazy. It's very clear that 1) it's a
Strat through a Showman, 2) it has reverb on it; 3) it was released
in '62. In the fifties, Dick wasn't playing a Strat, and certainly
not a Fender showman with a reverb unit. If you listen to Dick's
early singles, like Let's Go Trippin' (b/w Del-Tone Rock) and Jungle
Fever (b/w Shake 'n Stomp - the early version, not the version from
Surfer's Choice that most people know), the difference in tone is
huge. The lead guitar is bone dry, and not nearly as powerful as on
Miserlou. Often it sounds pretty distorted, especially in the high
frequencies, and even a bit thin. His progression through '61
and '62 is caught very well on record, and Dick is very confused
about all the dates. Or maybe he's changing the story to make
himself look like even more of a pioneer than he actually was. He's
never the one to be humble about his contributions - which were
admittedly huge.
Ivan
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Phil Dirt wrote:
> Surfers Choice is at best the third surf LP, with the Challengers "Surf
> Beat" being clearly the first, and I think the Mar-ketts' Surfers Stomp
> being the other. Surfers Choice was recorded at the Rendezvous, which
> Dick only occupied from spring 1962 through 1962. It could not have
> been recorded there in the fifties because Dick was in Massachusetts.
Dick performed at the Rendezvous Ballroom from around mid-1960 to late
December, 1961. I'm researching the actual date of his first Rendezvous
show now, but it was during 1960. Earlier reports with start dates in 1961
or 1959 are incorrect.
> As to "Miserlou" being cut in the fifties, some of the studio musicians
> at the session confirm its origin as 1962. And tone... Ivan has it
> nailed. I also don't think Leo fender developed the outboard tank
> enough to use until early '62, and it was then that he worked with Dale
> and Eddie Bertrand, among others.
Dick used a prototype Fender Reverb at the Rendezvous starting at some
point in 1961 (I'd guess no earlier than late fall or early winter). The
prototype had a hard tolex cover on the front, not the cloth weave that the
production models had. The device was noted in Fender's 1962 product
catalog for the first time. While some production units may have been in
use by late 1961, I believe the first ones most surf bands bought at the
time were in early 1962 (The Surfaris' Bob Berryhill had one of the first
ones, though not at the time "Wipe Out" was recorded...12/61).
> The sad thing is that his real accomplishments are so huge, so
> significant, that there's just no reason to fictionalize.
How very, very true.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks John. I'm gald you're around to keep me straight. I for one
alway appreciate your corrections. I work hard to keep it right, but
with life always happening and time passing, it sometimes gets out of
sync.
Didn't McParland's book have quotes from the woman that owned the
Rendezvous? I seem to recall a repro of attendance records. My mental
timeline is not clear on this, unfortunately.
Dick is the single most imprtant figure in surf music, bar none. He's
also very important in the "real" history of rock 'n' roll from an
influence stand point. I wish that was enough for him.
Phil
--- wrote:
---------------------------------
Phil Dirt wrote:
> Surfers Choice is at best the third surf LP, with the Challengers
"Surf
> Beat" being clearly the first, and I think the Mar-ketts' Surfers
Stomp
> being the other. Surfers Choice was recorded at the Rendezvous, which
> Dick only occupied from spring 1962 through 1962. It could not have
> been recorded there in the fifties because Dick was in Massachusetts.
Dick performed at the Rendezvous Ballroom from around mid-1960 to late
December, 1961. I'm researching the actual date of his first
Rendezvous
show now, but it was during 1960. Earlier reports with start dates in
1961
or 1959 are incorrect.
> As to "Miserlou" being cut in the fifties, some of the studio
musicians
> at the session confirm its origin as 1962. And tone... Ivan has it
> nailed. I also don't think Leo fender developed the outboard tank
> enough to use until early '62, and it was then that he worked with
Dale
> and Eddie Bertrand, among others.
Dick used a prototype Fender Reverb at the Rendezvous starting at some
point in 1961 (I'd guess no earlier than late fall or early winter).
The
prototype had a hard tolex cover on the front, not the cloth weave that
the
production models had. The device was noted in Fender's 1962 product
catalog for the first time. While some production units may have been
in
use by late 1961, I believe the first ones most surf bands bought at
the
time were in early 1962 (The Surfaris' Bob Berryhill had one of the
first
ones, though not at the time "Wipe Out" was recorded...12/61).
> The sad thing is that his real accomplishments are so huge, so
> significant, that there's just no reason to fictionalize.
How very, very true.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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Thanks a lot guys. I think I caught most of the untruths when I read
the bio the first time, but thanks for providing the facts to confirm
it. It was an entertaining read none the less...The bio also
mentioned Dick Dale's "sexy" voice. That untruth stood out pretty well.
Thanks again,
Alex
--- In , john.blair@s... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Phil Dirt wrote:
>
> > Surfers Choice is at best the third surf LP, with the Challengers
"Surf
> > Beat" being clearly the first, and I think the Mar-ketts' Surfers
Stomp
> > being the other. Surfers Choice was recorded at the Rendezvous, which
> > Dick only occupied from spring 1962 through 1962. It could not have
> > been recorded there in the fifties because Dick was in Massachusetts.
>
> Dick performed at the Rendezvous Ballroom from around mid-1960 to late
> December, 1961. I'm researching the actual date of his first Rendezvous
> show now, but it was during 1960. Earlier reports with start dates
in 1961
> or 1959 are incorrect.
>
>
> > As to "Miserlou" being cut in the fifties, some of the studio
musicians
> > at the session confirm its origin as 1962. And tone... Ivan has it
> > nailed. I also don't think Leo fender developed the outboard tank
> > enough to use until early '62, and it was then that he worked with
Dale
> > and Eddie Bertrand, among others.
>
> Dick used a prototype Fender Reverb at the Rendezvous starting at some
> point in 1961 (I'd guess no earlier than late fall or early winter).
The
> prototype had a hard tolex cover on the front, not the cloth weave
that the
> production models had. The device was noted in Fender's 1962 product
> catalog for the first time. While some production units may have
been in
> use by late 1961, I believe the first ones most surf bands bought at the
> time were in early 1962 (The Surfaris' Bob Berryhill had one of the
first
> ones, though not at the time "Wipe Out" was recorded...12/61).
>
> > The sad thing is that his real accomplishments are so huge, so
> > significant, that there's just no reason to fictionalize.
>
> How very, very true.
>
> john blair
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I realize I'm out on a limb, interjecting between John Blair and Phil Dirt, but
I feel compelled to enter my two-cents' worth. Is this a question of the
earliest LP with the word "Surf" in the title, or the first LP to actually
feature Surf Music, played Surf Style?
According to the discographies and band histories that I've checked, there's no
way The Challengers' "Surf Beat" pre-dated Dick Dale's "Surfers' Choice"!
"Surfer's Choice" shows a commerecial release date in 1962.
According to Paul Johnson, in the liner notes for the mid-80's Bel Airs
retrospective LP, the Bel Airs were still playing gigs as of early 1963, and The
Challengers kinda took up where The Bel Airs had left off. In fact, the
Challengers' discography bears this out, as it shows that "Surf Beat" was not
released until January 1963, several months after "Surfers' Choice" had come
out.
Granted, The Marketts' "Surfers Stomp" was released at the beginning of 1962,
but, I never considered them a Surf Band, and IMHO none of their earliest music
was any surfier than Strange Dave Rosenberg (being similarly mainly dependent on
Horns and Keyboards), at least until they released "Out of Limits" in 1964. In
my opinion, irrespective of their album or song titles, they were more about
capitalizing on the growing popularity of Surf Music, than actually playing real
Surf Music! Here's a cut and paste of what MP3.com has to say about The
Marketts:
"the Marketts' sound is best described not as surf, but as rock-influenced
instrumental pop with a futuristic (by early '60s standards) touch. In reality,
they were something of an all-purpose contemporary instrumental group with
elements of surf, rock, pop, and even easy listening"
So, if these are the 3 earliest Surf LP's, it comes down to being The Marketts
versus Dick Dale. And between the early Marketts, versus Dick Dale, my vote for
the earliest LP that featured recognizable Surf Music, goes to Dick Dale's
"Surfers' Choice".
Bruce D wrote:
Phil Dirt wrote:
> Surfers Choice is at best the third surf LP, with the Challengers "Surf
> Beat" being clearly the first, and I think the Mar-ketts' Surfers Stomp
> being the other. Surfers Choice was recorded at the Rendezvous, which
> Dick only occupied from spring 1962 through 1962. It could not have
> been recorded there in the fifties because Dick was in Massachusetts.
Dick performed at the Rendezvous Ballroom from around mid-1960 to late
December, 1961. I'm researching the actual date of his first Rendezvous
show now, but it was during 1960. Earlier reports with start dates in 1961
or 1959 are incorrect.
> As to "Miserlou" being cut in the fifties, some of the studio musicians
> at the session confirm its origin as 1962. And tone... Ivan has it
> nailed. I also don't think Leo fender developed the outboard tank
> enough to use until early '62, and it was then that he worked with Dale
> and Eddie Bertrand, among others.
Dick used a prototype Fender Reverb at the Rendezvous starting at some
point in 1961 (I'd guess no earlier than late fall or early winter). The
prototype had a hard tolex cover on the front, not the cloth weave that the
production models had. The device was noted in Fender's 1962 product
catalog for the first time. While some production units may have been in
use by late 1961, I believe the first ones most surf bands bought at the
time were in early 1962 (The Surfaris' Bob Berryhill had one of the first
ones, though not at the time "Wipe Out" was recorded...12/61).
> The sad thing is that his real accomplishments are so huge, so
> significant, that there's just no reason to fictionalize.
How very, very true.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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---------------------------------
"There's no such thing as too much reverb"
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce, I love this analysis. Welcome to 'Tweener World!
The title "surf" or "surfing" is usually the claim, but sometimes it's
album with surf shot on it.
You're right about Surfers Choice soundwise, and as I noted earlier
from John's book, 1/63 is te release date on the Challenegrs LP, end of
62 for Surfers Choice.
I heartilly agree about the Mar-ketts musically, but the claim is
usually LP title, and they are generally included despite their
non-surf sound.
Phil
--- bruce duncan <> wrote:
---------------------------------
I realize I'm out on a limb, interjecting between John Blair and Phil
Dirt, but I feel compelled to enter my two-cents' worth. Is this a
question of the earliest LP with the word "Surf" in the title, or the
first LP to actually feature Surf Music, played Surf Style?
According to the discographies and band histories that I've checked,
there's no way The Challengers' "Surf Beat" pre-dated Dick Dale's
"Surfers' Choice"!
"Surfer's Choice" shows a commerecial release date in 1962.
According to Paul Johnson, in the liner notes for the mid-80's Bel Airs
retrospective LP, the Bel Airs were still playing gigs as of early
1963, and The Challengers kinda took up where The Bel Airs had left
off. In fact, the Challengers' discography bears this out, as it shows
that "Surf Beat" was not released until January 1963, several months
after "Surfers' Choice" had come out.
Granted, The Marketts' "Surfers Stomp" was released at the beginning of
1962, but, I never considered them a Surf Band, and IMHO none of their
earliest music was any surfier than Strange Dave Rosenberg (being
similarly mainly dependent on Horns and Keyboards), at least until they
released "Out of Limits" in 1964. In my opinion, irrespective of their
album or song titles, they were more about capitalizing on the growing
popularity of Surf Music, than actually playing real Surf Music!
Here's a cut and paste of what MP3.com has to say about The Marketts:
"the Marketts' sound is best described not as surf, but as
rock-influenced instrumental pop with a futuristic (by early '60s
standards) touch. In reality, they were something of an all-purpose
contemporary instrumental group with elements of surf, rock, pop, and
even easy listening"
So, if these are the 3 earliest Surf LP's, it comes down to being The
Marketts versus Dick Dale. And between the early Marketts, versus Dick
Dale, my vote for the earliest LP that featured recognizable Surf
Music, goes to Dick Dale's "Surfers' Choice".
Bruce D wrote:
Phil Dirt wrote:
> Surfers Choice is at best the third surf LP, with the Challengers
"Surf
> Beat" being clearly the first, and I think the Mar-ketts' Surfers
Stomp
> being the other. Surfers Choice was recorded at the Rendezvous, which
> Dick only occupied from spring 1962 through 1962. It could not have
> been recorded there in the fifties because Dick was in Massachusetts.
Dick performed at the Rendezvous Ballroom from around mid-1960 to late
December, 1961. I'm researching the actual date of his first
Rendezvous
show now, but it was during 1960. Earlier reports with start dates in
1961
or 1959 are incorrect.
> As to "Miserlou" being cut in the fifties, some of the studio
musicians
> at the session confirm its origin as 1962. And tone... Ivan has it
> nailed. I also don't think Leo fender developed the outboard tank
> enough to use until early '62, and it was then that he worked with
Dale
> and Eddie Bertrand, among others.
Dick used a prototype Fender Reverb at the Rendezvous starting at some
point in 1961 (I'd guess no earlier than late fall or early winter).
The
prototype had a hard tolex cover on the front, not the cloth weave that
the
production models had. The device was noted in Fender's 1962 product
catalog for the first time. While some production units may have been
in
use by late 1961, I believe the first ones most surf bands bought at
the
time were in early 1962 (The Surfaris' Bob Berryhill had one of the
first
ones, though not at the time "Wipe Out" was recorded...12/61).
> The sad thing is that his real accomplishments are so huge, so
> significant, that there's just no reason to fictionalize.
How very, very true.
john blair
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Phil Dirt wrote:
> You're right about Surfers Choice soundwise, and as I noted earlier
> from John's book, 1/63 is te release date on the Challenegrs LP, end of
> 62 for Surfers Choice.
The date in my book for the Challengers' LP is wrong. It was earlier by at
least 2 months.
Dating records is sometimes easy (Dot 45s, for example), but most of the
time rather challenging. For the vast majority of records, the best we can
often do is to fix the date within a window of about 1 month. For LPs,
it's even less specific...the most accurate window is sometimes within a
2-3 month period of time.
You can see how tenuous it can often be to say one of two records was first
when both were released within days or a few weeks of one another. The
Challengers' 1st LP and "Surfer's Choice" were released very, very close to
one another in time. If this thread continues into next week, I'll post
more specific information about the chronology of these early LPs.
Bruce D. wrote:
> According to Paul Johnson, in the liner notes for the mid-80's Bel Airs
> retrospective LP, the Bel Airs were still playing gigs as of early
> 1963, and The Challengers kinda took up where The Bel Airs had left
> off.
Remember that The Belairs continued as a band for awhile after Paul left.
So, for a period of time, the Challengers and the Belairs were active at
the same time.
> In fact, the Challengers' discography bears this out, as it shows
> that "Surf Beat" was not released until January 1963, several months
> after "Surfers' Choice" had come out.
Again, the 1/63 date for the Challengers' 1st LP is not correct. It was
released earlier.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Dick is the single most imprtant figure in surf music, bar
none. He's also very important in the "real" history of
rock 'n'roll from an influence stand point. I wish that was
enough for him."
Dick Dale's historical legacies:
1. high-energy LOUD amplified rock.
2. Full utilization of amplified Fender Precision Bass.
3. HEAVY lead guitar riffs.
4. powerful amplifiers, speakers, reverb unit development
with Fender.
-dp
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
Let's see if I can put more of a focus on this (I just realized I had
something with me here at the office that would help in this case).
April, 1962 -- Mar-Kets' "Surfer's Stomp" LP
April, 1962 -- Vaughn Monroe's "Surfer's Stomp" LP (yea, I know....I can
hear the grumbling already)
October, 1962 -- Beach Boys' "Surfin' Safari" LP
November, 1962 (pretty sure it was November) -- Challengers' "Surfbeat" LP
November, 1962 -- Dick Dale & The Del-Tones' "Surfer's Choice" LP
This would make "Surfer's Choice" actually the 5th surf music LP (broad
definition of "surf music" here) to be released. It was, however, the
first surf music LP to appear on radio station KFWB's Top 5 chart (KFWB
being one of the two major L.A. Top 40 stations at the time and an
important operation to the early history of surf music).
So, the chronological order completely depends on how you define it.
The first surf music album with a variation of the word "surf" in the title
-- Mar-Kets
The first surf music album with a surfing photo on the cover -- Beach Boys
The first surf music album with all instrumentals -- Mar-Kets
The first surf instrumental music album in the traditionally accepted sense
-- Challengers or Dick Dale
The first surf music album with at least one vocal on it -- Vaughn Monroe
The first surf music album to make the Billboard LP charts -- Beach Boys
doo dah
doo dah
Regardless of "firsts," the above list includes the first 5 LPs released
within the genre. Much more interesting to me is that gap of 6 months
between April and October 1962 without any "surf music" LPs dropped on the
market.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John,
I think I read or heard somewhere that the Vaughn Monroe LP was the
same as the Mar-Kets - maybe heard the same tracks from both -
something. Can you shed some light?
Phil
--- wrote:
---------------------------------
Let's see if I can put more of a focus on this (I just realized I had
something with me here at the office that would help in this case).
April, 1962 -- Mar-Kets' "Surfer's Stomp" LP
April, 1962 -- Vaughn Monroe's "Surfer's Stomp" LP (yea, I know....I
can
hear the grumbling already)
October, 1962 -- Beach Boys' "Surfin' Safari" LP
November, 1962 (pretty sure it was November) -- Challengers' "Surfbeat"
LP
November, 1962 -- Dick Dale & The Del-Tones' "Surfer's Choice" LP
This would make "Surfer's Choice" actually the 5th surf music LP (broad
definition of "surf music" here) to be released. It was, however, the
first surf music LP to appear on radio station KFWB's Top 5 chart (KFWB
being one of the two major L.A. Top 40 stations at the time and an
important operation to the early history of surf music).
So, the chronological order completely depends on how you define it.
The first surf music album with a variation of the word "surf" in the
title
-- Mar-Kets
The first surf music album with a surfing photo on the cover -- Beach
Boys
The first surf music album with all instrumentals -- Mar-Kets
The first surf instrumental music album in the traditionally accepted
sense
-- Challengers or Dick Dale
The first surf music album with at least one vocal on it -- Vaughn
Monroe
The first surf music album to make the Billboard LP charts -- Beach
Boys
doo dah
doo dah
Regardless of "firsts," the above list includes the first 5 LPs
released
within the genre. Much more interesting to me is that gap of 6 months
between April and October 1962 without any "surf music" LPs dropped on
the
market.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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---------------------------------
I believe the instrumentals on the Monroe LP (there were only 3 vocals out
of 12 tracks!!!!) were mostly early versions of the same tracks that
appeared on the Mar-Kets' LP. They weren't the same, just different
recordings. To be any more specific, I'd have to double-check both LPs at
home. Of course, the Monroe album had that really odd recording of "Mr.
Moto" that the Mar-Kets' LP didn't, but basically the same musicians were
involved in both efforts.
john blair
Phil Dirt
<phildirt@reverbc
entral.com> To
Sent by:
SurfGuitar101@yah cc
oogroups.com
Subject
Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Dick Dale
09/02/2005 04:23 invented Surf in the 50s?
PM
Please respond to
SurfGuitar101@yah
oogroups.com
John,
I think I read or heard somewhere that the Vaughn Monroe LP was the
same as the Mar-Kets - maybe heard the same tracks from both -
something. Can you shed some light?
Phil
--- wrote:
---------------------------------
Let's see if I can put more of a focus on this (I just realized I had
something with me here at the office that would help in this case).
April, 1962 -- Mar-Kets' "Surfer's Stomp" LP
April, 1962 -- Vaughn Monroe's "Surfer's Stomp" LP (yea, I know....I
can
hear the grumbling already)
October, 1962 -- Beach Boys' "Surfin' Safari" LP
November, 1962 (pretty sure it was November) -- Challengers' "Surfbeat"
LP
November, 1962 -- Dick Dale & The Del-Tones' "Surfer's Choice" LP
This would make "Surfer's Choice" actually the 5th surf music LP (broad
definition of "surf music" here) to be released. It was, however, the
first surf music LP to appear on radio station KFWB's Top 5 chart (KFWB
being one of the two major L.A. Top 40 stations at the time and an
important operation to the early history of surf music).
So, the chronological order completely depends on how you define it.
The first surf music album with a variation of the word "surf" in the
title
-- Mar-Kets
The first surf music album with a surfing photo on the cover -- Beach
Boys
The first surf music album with all instrumentals -- Mar-Kets
The first surf instrumental music album in the traditionally accepted
sense
-- Challengers or Dick Dale
The first surf music album with at least one vocal on it -- Vaughn
Monroe
The first surf music album to make the Billboard LP charts -- Beach
Boys
doo dah
doo dah
Regardless of "firsts," the above list includes the first 5 LPs
released
within the genre. Much more interesting to me is that gap of 6 months
between April and October 1962 without any "surf music" LPs dropped on
the
market.
john blair
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Service.
---------------------------------
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What' about 45 rpm singles, did Dick have the first one of
those?
Then the other bands just beat him to the Punch on the LP market?
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , john.blair@s... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
>
> >
>
> > I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf music in the
> > 1950's."
>
> While Dick certainly practiced his unique guitar style in the 50s,
the term
> "surf music" wasn't connected to his playing until 1961. There was
a
> specific time and place, and set of conditions that allowed that to
happen.
>
> > I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's Surfer's
Choice
> > was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps that's
debateable
> > in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty sure that it
was
> > not released in the 50s...
>
> Don't be confused. "Surfer's Choice" wasn't released in the 50s.
It was
> released in 1962. First surf album? Debatable. Most likely, that
claim
> goes to the Challengers' "Surfbeat." Even the Mar-Kets' "Surfer's
Stomp"
> album was released before "Surfer's Choice."
>
> > "Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf Guitar' by his
surfer
> > friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb, Dale's first
album
> > called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album to be
> > commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by the pier in
San
> > Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it. This album alone sold
over
> > eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's and today in the
90's it
> > would be like 4 million."
>
> The above paragraph was poorly written, inaccurate, and
misleading. It's
> true that "Surfer's Choice" sold like hotcakes, primarily in
Southern
> California. I don't know how accurate the 88,000 figure is, but
the number
> was certainly quite large and in the many thousands. It just wasn't
> released in the late 50s.
>
>
> john blair
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maybe you are on to something here Jeff...maybe that's how
good old DD got on to KFWB before everyone else...maybe he
had the first single out there on the radio...
...maybe DD's tunes were the first surf tunes heard by the
masses?
...maybe "Surfer's Choice" was the first "big selling" LP
in the surf genre?
-dp
--- Jeff <> wrote:
> What' about 45 rpm singles, did Dick have the first
> one of
> those?
>
> Then the other bands just beat him to the Punch on the
> LP market?
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
>
>
> --- In , john.blair@s...
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I was surprised to read that Dick Dale "invented surf
> music in the
> > > 1950's."
> >
> > While Dick certainly practiced his unique guitar style
> in the 50s,
> the term
> > "surf music" wasn't connected to his playing until
> 1961. There was
> a
> > specific time and place, and set of conditions that
> allowed that to
> happen.
> >
> > > I'm also quite confused by the claim that Dick Dale's
> Surfer's
> Choice
> > > was the first surf album ever released, but perhaps
> that's
> debateable
> > > in how you interpret the sentence...but I am pretty
> sure that it
> was
> > > not released in the 50s...
> >
> > Don't be confused. "Surfer's Choice" wasn't released
> in the 50s.
> It was
> > released in 1962. First surf album? Debatable. Most
> likely, that
> claim
> > goes to the Challengers' "Surfbeat." Even the
> Mar-Kets' "Surfer's
> Stomp"
> > album was released before "Surfer's Choice."
> >
> > > "Dale had already been titled 'King of the Surf
> Guitar' by his
> surfer
> > > friends before his creation of the Fender Reverb,
> Dale's first
> album
> > > called 'Surfer's Choice' was the first Surfing album
> to be
> > > commercially sold with a picture of Dale surfing by
> the pier in
> San
> > > Clemente, Ca. with a surfing title on it. This album
> alone sold
> over
> > > eighty-eight thousand albums in the late 50's and
> today in the
> 90's it
> > > would be like 4 million."
> >
> > The above paragraph was poorly written, inaccurate, and
>
> misleading. It's
> > true that "Surfer's Choice" sold like hotcakes,
> primarily in
> Southern
> > California. I don't know how accurate the 88,000
> figure is, but
> the number
> > was certainly quite large and in the many thousands.
> It just wasn't
> > released in the late 50s.
> >
> >
> > john blair
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
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--- Alexander Thorburn Hoffman <>
wrote:
"...I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
Is there any truth to some of these claims and others
made in the full bio?..."
Alexander:
I'm skeptical that even an "authentic" Dick Dale MySpace
Bio? I question the majority of those "MySpace Bios"...they
are mostly fictitious...especially for "big name"
personalities.
For instance, last I heard, Dick Dale does not live in
Pasedena CA...he lives in 29 Palms CA.
Also, I don't think the real authentic Dick Dale would
include the late 50s-early 60s "Biker/Greaser Dick Dale"
photo that made the rounds on the internet a couple years
back.
Also, the Dick Dale MySpace doesn't mention one word about
Dick's son, Jimmy Dale...and Dick rarely goes two-minutes
without promoting his "guitar prodigy" son.
It looks like whomever created the "Dick Dale and his
Deltones" MySpace page visited DD's website, copied and
pasted some info, and threw in some additional info found
on various DD CDs out there.
I don't think it was the real authentic Dick Dale who
created the MySpace page...I think the real authentic Dick
Dale keeps himself busy with the "official Dick Dale world
wide website" located at : www.dickdale.com
All that said, when I spotted "Dick Dale" on MySpace, I
immediately petitoned him to make me one of his MySpace
pals! In addition, I'm MySpace friends with Abraham
Lincoln, Napoleon, Julius Ceasar, Sigmund Frued and George
Washington too! And all of the Ramones!
;)-dp
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
Maybe Jimmy Dale made up that Myspace account for his ol' daddy.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
--- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Alexander Thorburn Hoffman <indiglowblue@y...>
> wrote:
>
> "...I recently took a look at Dick Dales myspace bio.
>
>
>
> Is there any truth to some of these claims and others
> made in the full bio?..."
>
>
> Alexander:
>
> I'm skeptical that even an "authentic" Dick Dale MySpace
> Bio? I question the majority of those "MySpace Bios"...they
> are mostly fictitious...especially for "big name"
> personalities.
>
> For instance, last I heard, Dick Dale does not live in
> Pasedena CA...he lives in 29 Palms CA.
>
> Also, I don't think the real authentic Dick Dale would
> include the late 50s-early 60s "Biker/Greaser Dick Dale"
> photo that made the rounds on the internet a couple years
> back.
>
> Also, the Dick Dale MySpace doesn't mention one word about
> Dick's son, Jimmy Dale...and Dick rarely goes two-minutes
> without promoting his "guitar prodigy" son.
>
> It looks like whomever created the "Dick Dale and his
> Deltones" MySpace page visited DD's website, copied and
> pasted some info, and threw in some additional info found
> on various DD CDs out there.
>
> I don't think it was the real authentic Dick Dale who
> created the MySpace page...I think the real authentic Dick
> Dale keeps himself busy with the "official Dick Dale world
> wide website" located at : www.dickdale.com
>
> All that said, when I spotted "Dick Dale" on MySpace, I
> immediately petitoned him to make me one of his MySpace
> pals! In addition, I'm MySpace friends with Abraham
> Lincoln, Napoleon, Julius Ceasar, Sigmund Frued and George
> Washington too! And all of the Ramones!
>
>
> ;)-dp
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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