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Bruce -
abolutly no disagreement here - you're recomendations are all good,
but the issue was not an integral 'get a good surf guitar', but
rather the effects of pickup rewiring on a strat. I am pretty sure
the three axes with mods would turn out pretty decent surf guitars
without the pickup rewiring too.
on the other hand "just" the pickup rewiring - at least to try - is a
free mod, that any-one can do on a budget strat, and compare to how
the guitar sounds in standard strat configuration - and that was what
I was talking about. (and in the few experiences i had, it doesn't
get jag-ish at all)
I'll take any of your suggestions for somebody who wants a great surf
strat for medium money, and do or don't do the rewiring, but $500-ish
is not that mucxh of a budget guitar in my book, and for someone who
wants a JAG sound (which was what this all started with) I'd say save
just a tad extra and get a jap jag, don't know about the states but
here in europe they run very little over $500 on the second hand
market.
(of course, now a thread will start on how you really need 400 bucks
of upgrade on a jap jag too ;-)
WR
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> WR,
>
> Your comments are all valid and duly noted, but not applicable to
my earlier posting, in which I made very specific recommendations for
the ultimate "Surf-Strat" guitar, for the musician on a tight budget.
>
> I'm aware of three guitars that fit the bill, it's really a matter
of personal taste which one you'd use for the modifications and
upgrades. (If you can do all the work yourself, you'll save about
$150-$200 in guitar-tech labor)
>
> 1. Wilson Bros, Ventures Model VM10 (Strat Copy) $149.00 through
most Internet sellers;
>
> 2. Mexican Fender Strat Standard $250-350 used on ebay;
>
> 3. Wesley San Diego, $260 shipped from UK
>
> Items 1 & 2 need no further description, they are both traditional
Stratocaster-type guitars. The Wesley San Diego, uses a Jazzmaster-
style off-set body, with a Jazzmaster-style cream M.O.P. pickguard,
with 3 Strat-style pickups, a Strat-style tremolo bridge assembly,
one volume and one tone, and a 5-position pickup selector switch.
The mods I recommend apply to #1 and #2, with the exception that on
#2 I wouldn't bother replacing the tuning machines, I think they're
of sufficient quality to do the job.
>
> Mod 1: Bridge: A Mexican Strat Standard bridge fits either of
these guitars, with the correct string and mounting-screw spacing.
To that bridge, substitute a Calaham forged steel inertia block for
the crappy cast zinc block that comes with all 3 of these guitars
from their respective factories. Improved ballsiness of sound, more
note separation, and greater sustain. Some additional routing of the
wood under the bridge plate is needed to provide clearance for the
new Trem block to be able to move back and forth, so you have a
workable whammy. My Dremel came in mighty handy here!
> Cost: Mexi Standard Bridge: $35 - $50; Calaham block $55.00
>
> Mod 2: Pickups: The Wesley San Diego uses Strat-like pickups
which are just a tiny bit smaller than the pickups listed here. I
used my Dremel to slightly enlarge the pickup cutouts, and the new
pickups went in without a hitch. There are 3 pickup types I've used
with excellent results. Seymour Duncan Antiquity II Surf Pickups run
about $250 per set of 3, and are wonderful. Fender produces a Dick
Dale Surfer pickup at about $200 owe set of 3, and I've not used
these, but have heard very positive things about them. Fender also
produces the "Fat 50's" Strat pickups that many players have raved
about on Harmony Central, about $150.00 per set of 3. On my Wesley
San Diego, I used a $50.00 set of Fender US 57 R/I Strat pickups, and
the guys in my band all agree this guitar is one of the sweetest
sounding surf guitars they've ever heard.
>
> Mod 3. Wiring: The Wesley comes with only two control pots, but 3
are needed. I used my Dremel, and channeled the holes for the outer
two pots, to create little more distance between them, and added the
3rd pot right in between them. The 5-position switch needs to be
replaced with a 3-position switch, and the ultimate change is that
you can now get all standard pickup positions plus neck/bridge and
all-3. Additionally, the tone control is now Master tone for ALL 3
pickups, another big improvement.
> Cost: pot and 3-position switch About $20-$25
>
> Mod 4: Tuning Stability: First, althought they look like "dead
ringers", the tuning machines on the Wesley are NOT Klusons, nor are
they Gotoh copies. They need to be replaced with a better tuner. I
chose to use a $37 set of Fender "Kluson" Reissue Tuners. The holes
already drilled in the headstock are not large enough to accomodate
the real Klusons or Fender versions, so they need to be reamed by
approximately another 1mm diameter. Second, the nut, like all the
above, is a cheap generic plastic nut. I much prefer the slightly
more bone-like hardness and the self-lubricating qualities of the
Graph-Tech "Tusq" nut, so you need to pop the old nut out, and set
the new Tusq nut in place, with just a small dab of white or
carpenters glue. Tusq nuts, pre-notched with correct string-spacing
are available from Stewart MacDonalds (www.stewmac.com) at about
$9.00 a pop. Buy 2 or 3 just in case you blow it with the first
one. Costs: About $64.00 ( with 3 Tusq nuts purchased)
>
> Cost of each guitar with recommended mods:
>
> Wilson Bros VM-10 $380.00 (plus guitar-tech labor if
applicable)
> Mexi-Strat $475.00 (No-tuner replacement; plus
guitar-tech labor, if applicable)
> Wesley $500.00 (plus guitar tech labor, if
applicable)
>
> Of the above 3, any of these will become an excellent surf-axe with
the suggested mods. My favorite though, is the Wesley, with it's
Jazzmaster style, and Stratocaster guts. I've been playing one
modded exactly as I recommend above, for about 10 weeks, and it is
now my primary gigging guitar and the one the rest of the band
prefers to hear me playing.
>
> In fact, our 3rd guitarist, (who's been playing a '64 Jaguar for
the last 15 years) gave me the $500.00, and told me to deliver him a
clone of my Wesley ASAP, he's THAT impressed with how much BETTER my
guitar sounds, vs his vintage Jag!
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce D
>
> mono_tones_1 <rockverb@h...> wrote:
> --- In , "wipeoutboy63"
> <jerry.soetewey@b...> wrote:
> > "In past posts, I was slammed by another surf guitarist because I
> > said that when
> > you play a Strat on the bridge/neck pickups together, you get
> a "very
> > Jaguar-like" sound. This guy said that "he couldn't respect me if
I
> > honestly
> > believed that a Strat could sound the "same" as a Jaguar".
> > (!) "Like" and "the
> > same" are NOT synonymous!"
> >
> > I to feel/hear that a strat when rewired to bridge/Neck together
> > does sound like a Jag/JM. I think that is one of the main reasons
> > why many surf players rewire their strats to get the "brigde+neck
> > sound", this seams to add something "extra" to the reverb sound
imo.
> > And I also like a rewired strat more, but that's just me
>
> well, there might be a point to the comparison ('like' and
not 'same
> as') in some cases. but consider that there are about three
different
> jag pups out there (US fender, Jap fender, seymour duncan, or just
> MAYBE a few more) - and even the jap jag pups get into jag sound
> territory at least. rather consistent sound we're talking about.
> on the other hand, there must be thousands of 'strat' pups out
there
> on even more strat type guitars. and, a vast lot of these DON'T
SOUND
> LIKE A STRAT in the first place. and esp since rewiring a strat is
a
> budget option. (no one is going to get a $1500 strat and then
rewire
> it to get a 'jag sound')
> so, the notion of "a" rewired strat sounds so and so (in a good
way)
> has as much meaning as claiming that "an" undressed woman looks so
> and so (in a good way). Cause really, just like I'd need to know
> which woman we're talking about befor I 'concur, I'd need to know
> what strat it is we're talking about.
>
> evaluating my own experiences on plenty budget strat configurations:
> - two jap jag pups in the outer positions sounds jag-ish, but not
> jag. more like a maple neck trad strat sound with some extra
> metallicish bite, added drip on the tank, and a bit less mid-tone.
> - two seymour duncan vintage staggered ssl-1 in the outer positions
> doesn't sound anything like a jag (not even close) but DOES provide
> more drip.
> - two old tokai stratpups in the outer position don't sound near
jag
> and don't give extra drip. sound useless actually.
>
> and my estimate is that that covers about 0.001% of the possible
> pickups - so ther eyou go. says zilch about what marty or anyone
else
> has heard.
>
> btw, I still mostly use the sound of one seymour duncan in the
centre
> position - but this particular one measures exactly 6.66k - with
that
> and the favorite tank setting combined, it has to get sorta mean ...
>
> WR
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you buy a Jaguar, that's all you have - a guitar offering a limited range of
sound and tone.
If you buy a Strat, the bridge/neck position is not provided in the stock
wiring. Sorry to have to disagree with you, but my ears detect a definite tonal
difference between the sound of a Strat middle-only setting versus the Strat
neck/bridge setting.
For surf music, the Jaguar and Jazzmaster tend to be the guitars of choice
because the neck/bridge position is a classic position for getting the most
splash out of muted reverb rhythms and glissandoes.
My Wesley, and Wilson Bros. guitars, with the wiring mod, and any of the pickups
I listed, perform with the classic Strat sound, and in the neck/bridge position,
make a very good surfy sound, allowing me to get Jag-like sounds AND Strat
sounds out of ONE guitar.
And, in case the implied message didn't hit you, at $400-$500, with any of these
guitars, and the mods I mentioned, the guitar will stand shoulder-to-shoulder
with axes costing $1,200 and up, providing a heckuva lot of bang for the buck.
I've gone through decades of different guitars, amps, pickups, etc, and a lot of
trial and error, to come to the conclusions I wrote in my posting. If you want
a Jag, then get one; my message was about getting more usable tones out of ONE
guitar. As a gigging musician, this is a pretty important subject to me. Are
there compromises involved? Absolutely, but every piece of feedback I get when
we play out, or when someone comments on either of our CD's, indicates that I'm
extremely close to hitting the bullseye of a target I call, "the classic
trad-surf sound".
bruce duncan <> wrote:
Frank Delucca <> wrote:whatever
mono_tones_1 <> wrote:Bruce -
abolutly no disagreement here - you're recomendations are all good,
but the issue was not an integral 'get a good surf guitar', but
rather the effects of pickup rewiring on a strat. I am pretty sure
the three axes with mods would turn out pretty decent surf guitars
without the pickup rewiring too.
on the other hand "just" the pickup rewiring - at least to try - is a
free mod, that any-one can do on a budget strat, and compare to how
the guitar sounds in standard strat configuration - and that was what
I was talking about. (and in the few experiences i had, it doesn't
get jag-ish at all)
I'll take any of your suggestions for somebody who wants a great surf
strat for medium money, and do or don't do the rewiring, but $500-ish
is not that mucxh of a budget guitar in my book, and for someone who
wants a JAG sound (which was what this all started with) I'd say save
just a tad extra and get a jap jag, don't know about the states but
here in europe they run very little over $500 on the second hand
market.
(of course, now a thread will start on how you really need 400 bucks
of upgrade on a jap jag too ;-)
WR
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
[...]
>
> For surf music, the Jaguar and Jazzmaster tend to be the guitars of
choice because the neck/bridge position is a classic position for
getting the most splash out of muted reverb rhythms and glissandoes.
Don't forget that on real Jaguar/Jazzmasters, the 2 pickups are
reverse-wound/reverse-polarity from each other to get some hum
cancelling going. If you are going to do the neck/bridge mod on your
strat, I would recommend swapping your middle and bridge pickups first
to achieve this very noticeable effect. This is assuming your strat's
middle pickup is reverse-wound/reverse-polarity compared to the neck
and bridge pickups (cheap strats/strat copies probably don't do this).
BN
Hi Brian,
That's a real good point you make, and one I shoulda mentioned! Since I use the
neck/bridge position a lot, followed by the middle-only, then followed by
bridge-only, and hardly ever any of the other postitions, it makes total sense
to put the reverse-wired pickup in the bridge or neck position, to take
advantage of the hum-cancelling effect on the most used pickup position!
Thanks for bringing this up!
Bruce D
Brian Neal <> wrote:
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
[...]
>
> For surf music, the Jaguar and Jazzmaster tend to be the guitars of
choice because the neck/bridge position is a classic position for
getting the most splash out of muted reverb rhythms and glissandoes.
Don't forget that on real Jaguar/Jazzmasters, the 2 pickups are
reverse-wound/reverse-polarity from each other to get some hum
cancelling going. If you are going to do the neck/bridge mod on your
strat, I would recommend swapping your middle and bridge pickups first
to achieve this very noticeable effect. This is assuming your strat's
middle pickup is reverse-wound/reverse-polarity compared to the neck
and bridge pickups (cheap strats/strat copies probably don't do this).
BN
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bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Bridge pickup is often wound hotter than the other two pickups in a
Strat set. You may want to keep that one in the bridge position and swap the
Middle & Neck pickups instead (unless you do most of your solo-ing with the
middle pickup I suppose.)
Z
On 8/31/05, Brian Neal <> wrote:
>
>
> I would recommend swapping your middle and bridge pickups first
> to achieve this very noticeable effect. This is assuming your strat's
> middle pickup is reverse-wound/reverse-polarity compared to the neck
> and bridge pickups (cheap strats/strat copies probably don't do this).
>
> BN
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
