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Nothing wrong with skillful players but I've often found that present
day "surf" bands consisting of über technical members also have less
surfy songs and a horrible overall sound!
/ Klas
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> I don't know if Klas was "advocating" anything, Red. He was
prioritizing. I, on the other hand will actually advocate sucky
playing along with great tone and great tunes. Sucky playing has
often been just right for rock and roll. Link Wray and Dick Dale
technically suck as guitar players yet each of them played great
tunes with great tone and that combination made them the greats that
they are. Duane Eddy sucked as a guitar player but he had wonderfull
tone and played great songs. According to the late great technically
proficient studio legend Tommy Tedesco, Tommy was often asked to
sound like Duane Eddy and rarely ever asked to sound like Tommy
Tedesco.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: red_thundr
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:10 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard discussion
>
> So you're advocating sucky playing.
>
> No, in my book, good songs comes first. That teamed with ability
on
> the instrument makes great music. Never rely on your tone as a
crutch.
>
> --- In , "Klas Fjellgren"
<surfites@b...>
> wrote:
> > I think sound and songwriting are the two most important
factors in
> > surf music. Above average playing skills often doesn't do it
any
> good...
> >
> > Klas / The Surfites
> >
> >
>
>
> Nothing wrong with skillful players but I've often found that
present
> day "surf" bands consisting of über technical members also have less
> surfy songs and a horrible overall sound!
>
> / Klas
Agreed. Klas wasn't advocating sucky playing(he's a great guitarist
for one). Don't get me wrong here, I'm all for really great technical
guitarists. I love to listen to Chet Atkins or Les Paul, but I really
don't want to hear that in rock and roll.
We are talking about surf music here(not Eric Johnson, who gets
mentioned here much too often). I think a lot of the first wave bands
relied on their tone as a "crutch", or maybe more so their Reverb
tanks.
Link Wray, although not surf, probably spent more time worrying about
how his guitar sounded on "Rumble" than on how technical he was going
to make the song.
I think a good example of raw talent gone awry with trying to be over
technical would be one man....Eddie Bertrand.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
My take on this whole technique thing: I think if people are
noticing the technique than the song has failed. I believe that
technique always must be in the service of the song (maybe have a
scattering of noticable chops here and there as a bit of a spice in
a song). And this is why I also believe that technique in
surf 'doesn't matter' - if you have a limited player playing a song
that is appropriate to his technique and doing it well with emotion
and attitude and gusto, than it'll work and it'll put a smile on my
face. And if you have a technically adept player playing a song
where technique is not the main element but rather simply a way to
convey the melody, emotion, attitude, and of course playing with
gusto, than that'll work just as well.
I think it's also silly to claim that surf music does not require
much technique. First of all, I think that Dick used to be a very
technically accomplished player (I think he's actually a bit worse
now than he was in the sixites, though still clearly very good).
How many here can play his solos in Nitro Fuel or Night Rider as
well he does? I also think that Eddie Bertrand, Rich Fifield
(listen to solo on Banzai Pipeline), Richie Podolor, Jim Messina,
Dave Myers, Jim Masoner, and more than a few others, were
technically VERY adept players. And certainly that would apply to
Nokie Edwards. The Atlantics guitarists were REALLY good, as was
Hank Marvin. I think all of these guys came from the old jazz
school which dictated that you better have your chops together but
that you then use them IN SERVICE of the song. That's the thing
that bothers me about most modern fusion/metal instrumental music -
it's usually first and foremost a showcase for hot guitar playing,
which is all all backwards.
Man, it doesn't matter how much chops you've got if you wanna rock!
The guys with huge chops can rock just as much as the guys that just
picked up the guitar, and vice versa - it's all a matter of
attitude!! (Sadly, the more chops people get, the more they lose
the attitude, it seems...)
And BTW, the right attitude - make the listener want to bounce off
the walls laughing his head off cause they're so full of energy
they'll explode!
Ivan
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> > Nothing wrong with skillful players but I've often found that
> present
> > day "surf" bands consisting of über technical members also have
less
> > surfy songs and a horrible overall sound!
> >
> > / Klas
>
> Agreed. Klas wasn't advocating sucky playing(he's a great
guitarist
> for one). Don't get me wrong here, I'm all for really great
technical
> guitarists. I love to listen to Chet Atkins or Les Paul, but I
really
> don't want to hear that in rock and roll.
> We are talking about surf music here(not Eric Johnson, who gets
> mentioned here much too often). I think a lot of the first wave
bands
> relied on their tone as a "crutch", or maybe more so their Reverb
> tanks.
>
> Link Wray, although not surf, probably spent more time worrying
about
> how his guitar sounded on "Rumble" than on how technical he was
going
> to make the song.
>
> I think a good example of raw talent gone awry with trying to be
over
> technical would be one man....Eddie Bertrand.
>
> Bill
> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
Slacktone would be the exception but then they are exceptional!
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Klas Fjellgren
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: technical skills vs. sound and songs
Nothing wrong with skillful players but I've often found that present
day "surf" bands consisting of über technical members also have less
surfy songs and a horrible overall sound!
/ Klas
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> I don't know if Klas was "advocating" anything, Red. He was
prioritizing. I, on the other hand will actually advocate sucky
playing along with great tone and great tunes. Sucky playing has
often been just right for rock and roll. Link Wray and Dick Dale
technically suck as guitar players yet each of them played great
tunes with great tone and that combination made them the greats that
they are. Duane Eddy sucked as a guitar player but he had wonderfull
tone and played great songs. According to the late great technically
proficient studio legend Tommy Tedesco, Tommy was often asked to
sound like Duane Eddy and rarely ever asked to sound like Tommy
Tedesco.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: red_thundr
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:10 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard discussion
>
> So you're advocating sucky playing.
>
> No, in my book, good songs comes first. That teamed with ability
on
> the instrument makes great music. Never rely on your tone as a
crutch.
>
> --- In , "Klas Fjellgren"
<surfites@b...>
> wrote:
> > I think sound and songwriting are the two most important
factors in
> > surf music. Above average playing skills often doesn't do it
any
> good...
> >
> > Klas / The Surfites
> >
> >
>
>
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
..although technique is always exciting to witness...a good
song and a great sound can't be beat...in addition,
high-energy and musical imagination and creativity all
score big bonus points in my book.
a sense of humour doesn't hurt either...
-dp
ps: oh yeah and VOLUME...did I mention that LOUD is GOOD?
--- Klas Fjellgren <> wrote:
> Nothing wrong with skillful players but I've often found
> that present
> day "surf" bands consisting of über technical members
> also have less
> surfy songs and a horrible overall sound!
>
> / Klas
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens"
> <mctippens@e...> wrote:
>
> > I don't know if Klas was "advocating" anything, Red. He
> was
> prioritizing. I, on the other hand will actually advocate
> sucky
> playing along with great tone and great tunes. Sucky
> playing has
> often been just right for rock and roll. Link Wray and
> Dick Dale
> technically suck as guitar players yet each of them
> played great
> tunes with great tone and that combination made them the
> greats that
> they are. Duane Eddy sucked as a guitar player but he had
> wonderfull
> tone and played great songs. According to the late great
> technically
> proficient studio legend Tommy Tedesco, Tommy was often
> asked to
> sound like Duane Eddy and rarely ever asked to sound like
> Tommy
> Tedesco.
> > -Marty
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: red_thundr
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:10 AM
> > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard
> discussion
> >
> > So you're advocating sucky playing.
> >
> > No, in my book, good songs comes first. That teamed
> with ability
> on
> > the instrument makes great music. Never rely on your
> tone as a
> crutch.
> >
> > --- In , "Klas
> Fjellgren"
> <surfites@b...>
> > wrote:
>
> > > I think sound and songwriting are the two most
> important
> factors in
> > > surf music. Above average playing skills often
> doesn't do it
> any
> > good...
> > >
> > > Klas / The Surfites
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for
> archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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My 3 cents:
The Song: It's all a package, the song is number #1, everything else
is a supporting role. What's makes a great song is very personal to
each and every person.
Tone and execution for the song: Now this is where all the
ingredients get mixed and create something real. The interaction of
musicians, dynamics, energy, colors, it all creates the final
product; The Song.
Chops is not just about how fast you can play, it's ideas, reactions
to a moment, experence, how each note and space it treated. It's the
ablity to react without having to calculate your next move but just
letting it fly. Some great songs are easy to play and some require
many years of practice.
--- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> ..although technique is always exciting to witness...a good
> song and a great sound can't be beat...in addition,
> high-energy and musical imagination and creativity all
> score big bonus points in my book.
>
> a sense of humour doesn't hurt either...
>
> -dp
>
> ps: oh yeah and VOLUME...did I mention that LOUD is GOOD?
>
>
>
>
> --- Klas Fjellgren <surfites@b...> wrote:
>
> > Nothing wrong with skillful players but I've often found
> > that present
> > day "surf" bands consisting of über technical members
> > also have less
> > surfy songs and a horrible overall sound!
> >
> > / Klas
> >
> > --- In , "Marty Tippens"
> > <mctippens@e...> wrote:
> >
> > > I don't know if Klas was "advocating" anything, Red. He
> > was
> > prioritizing. I, on the other hand will actually advocate
> > sucky
> > playing along with great tone and great tunes. Sucky
> > playing has
> > often been just right for rock and roll. Link Wray and
> > Dick Dale
> > technically suck as guitar players yet each of them
> > played great
> > tunes with great tone and that combination made them the
> > greats that
> > they are. Duane Eddy sucked as a guitar player but he had
> > wonderfull
> > tone and played great songs. According to the late great
> > technically
> > proficient studio legend Tommy Tedesco, Tommy was often
> > asked to
> > sound like Duane Eddy and rarely ever asked to sound like
> > Tommy
> > Tedesco.
> > > -Marty
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: red_thundr
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:10 AM
> > > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard
> > discussion
> > >
> > > So you're advocating sucky playing.
> > >
> > > No, in my book, good songs comes first. That teamed
> > with ability
> > on
> > > the instrument makes great music. Never rely on your
> > tone as a
> > crutch.
> > >
> > > --- In , "Klas
> > Fjellgren"
> > <surfites@b...>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > I think sound and songwriting are the two most
> > important
> > factors in
> > > > surf music. Above average playing skills often
> > doesn't do it
> > any
> > > good...
> > > >
> > > > Klas / The Surfites
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for
> > archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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the most important thing is that it has to be played from the
heart................carol
