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Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that the majority of members
(myself included) agree that surf has to be played with an outboard tank. Allow
me to throw in a new angle just for conversations' sake. Which would you rather
hear? A surf instro played with total mediocrity but with an outboard tank, or a
surf instro played with exceptional technique but with the onboard amp reverb?
What's the more important element for surf? The right equipment or the right
technique?
Cheers
Dan
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That is a tough call Dan. I would probably go with the one that was
played with the excellent technique. Although I doubt many people play
with such a low level of mediocrity that I wouldn't like it.
The argument I like to make is just look at all the bands that use
reverb units. Damn near all of them. The ones who don't say it is
because they don't like carrying too much stuff around.
--- In , Dan Bartley <bigtwangguy@y...>
wrote:
> Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that the majority of
members (myself included) agree that surf has to be played with an
outboard tank. Allow me to throw in a new angle just for
conversations' sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro played
with total mediocrity but with an outboard tank, or a surf instro
played with exceptional technique but with the onboard amp reverb?
What's the more important element for surf? The right equipment or the
right technique?
> Cheers
> Dan
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's an apple or oranges comparison. Technique is
free, equipment costs $. You can have the best gear on
the planet and still play like crap.
fd
--- Dan Bartley <> wrote:
> Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that
> the majority of members (myself included) agree that
> surf has to be played with an outboard tank. Allow
> me to throw in a new angle just for conversations'
> sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
> played with total mediocrity but with an outboard
> tank, or a surf instro played with exceptional
> technique but with the onboard amp reverb? What's
> the more important element for surf? The right
> equipment or the right technique?
> Cheers
> Dan
__________________________________________________
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Not all technique is free. Some people pay thousands of dollars for
guitar lessons. But yes, technique is free. Too bad equipment costs
money. I am sure some people have gotten some good stuff for free.
Brian Setzer got his '59 6120 for $100. Those sell for an insane
amount of money.
--- In , Ferenc Dobronyi <ferencnd@y...>
wrote:
> That's an apple or oranges comparison. Technique is
> free, equipment costs $. You can have the best gear on
> the planet and still play like crap.
> fd
>
> --- Dan Bartley <bigtwangguy@y...> wrote:
>
> > Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that
> > the majority of members (myself included) agree that
> > surf has to be played with an outboard tank. Allow
> > me to throw in a new angle just for conversations'
> > sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
> > played with total mediocrity but with an outboard
> > tank, or a surf instro played with exceptional
> > technique but with the onboard amp reverb? What's
> > the more important element for surf? The right
> > equipment or the right technique?
> > Cheers
> > Dan
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
I guess I'd rather hear someone with mediocre talents playing
traditional surf on a Jaguar with a tank. Than some really
technical player playing some flashy version of Pipeline on his
Floyd Rose equiped Strat through his Marshall half stack with a
little reverb.
Surf is kinda-sorta a roots version of Rock n' Roll... Sometimes
making noise is the best.
Bill
--- In , Dan Bartley <bigtwangguy@y...>
wrote:
> Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that the majority of
members (myself included) agree that surf has to be played with an
outboard tank. Allow me to throw in a new angle just for
conversations' sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
played with total mediocrity but with an outboard tank, or a surf
instro played with exceptional technique but with the onboard amp
reverb? What's the more important element for surf? The right
equipment or the right technique?
> Cheers
> Dan
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I realized after I posted my last message, that yeah,
technique could cost $. Lessons help, and for all the
talk here on SG101 about how to hold your pick or
string guages, there is nothing like having somebody
show you. But that doesn't have to cost $, maybe go to
a surf show and ask the guitarist for some pointers
after a set. He or she will will probably be
flattered. I have even seen Jim Thomas give pointers
after a Mermen show.
fd
--- Jacob Dobner <> wrote:
> Not all technique is free. Some people pay thousands
> of dollars for
> guitar lessons. But yes, technique is free. Too bad
> equipment costs
> money. I am sure some people have gotten some good
> stuff for free.
> Brian Setzer got his '59 6120 for $100. Those sell
> for an insane
> amount of money.
>
> --- In , Ferenc
> Dobronyi <ferencnd@y...>
> wrote:
> > That's an apple or oranges comparison. Technique
> is
> > free, equipment costs $. You can have the best
> gear on
> > the planet and still play like crap.
> > fd
> >
> > --- Dan Bartley <bigtwangguy@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems
> that
> > > the majority of members (myself included) agree
> that
> > > surf has to be played with an outboard tank.
> Allow
> > > me to throw in a new angle just for
> conversations'
> > > sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
> > > played with total mediocrity but with an
> outboard
> > > tank, or a surf instro played with exceptional
> > > technique but with the onboard amp reverb?
> What's
> > > the more important element for surf? The right
> > > equipment or the right technique?
> > > Cheers
> > > Dan
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >
>
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
It is kinda apples and oranges, but the comparison is not restricted
to surf. There are plenty of PRS-through-a-Mesa-Triple-Rec dorks out
there who can't play their way out of a wet paper bag, meanwhile
I've seen guys play a Squier Affinity through a Peavey who outplay,
out-write, and out-perform the lot of 'em.
What I mean is - the gear doesn't make the player. I saw some band a
few years ago in Miami for a garage rock fest - the guitarist comes
onstage with a Dano Hodad, so I'm thinking to myself, this should be
pretty cool. He plugs in, they start playing, and they're hands-down
the worst metal band I've ever heard (it must be a So. Florida
thing, pairing metal bands of some sort with garage/surf/rockabilly
bands....I'll never figure that booking anomaly out, but I digress).
Meanwhile, I've seen Deke Dickerson play through an old Silvertone
with no reverb whatsoever and his instro's were smokin'.
On a side note - I have an outboard tank out of necessity - my amp's
reverb is pretty weak (a Reverend Hellhound head). Our rhythm
guitarist has a RI Deluxe with no outboard, just uses the amp's
reverb, and it sounds great too.
Just my $.02\
Patrick
www.thecavefish.com
> --- In , Dan Bartley
<bigtwangguy@y...>
> wrote:
> > Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that the majority
of
> members (myself included) agree that surf has to be played with an
> outboard tank. Allow me to throw in a new angle just for
> conversations' sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
> played with total mediocrity but with an outboard tank, or a surf
> instro played with exceptional technique but with the onboard amp
> reverb? What's the more important element for surf? The right
> equipment or the right technique?
> > Cheers
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd have to wholeheartedly agree. The gear does not make the player,
and dictating the necessity of a particular type of gear for Surf is
ridiculous, exclusionary, and elitist. If a great player can make a
cheap Dano through a Vox work, more power to 'em, because they're not
depending on their gear to make their statement for them. If you're
the kind of player who absolutely need your specialized gear as your
crutch, you're probably not worth listening to anyway.
I've yet to have an audience member comoplain because my reverb
didn't sound like it came from a tank, or because I played Pipeline
with an Ibanez semi-hollowbody. If there are even four or five other
surf guitarists in the crowd (even that many is *very* unlikely)...
guess what? I'm not playing for them. I'm playing for the people up
dancing, enjoying the music and having a great time.
--- In , "Patrick" <reverb_10000@y...>
wrote:
> It is kinda apples and oranges, but the comparison is not
restricted
> to surf. There are plenty of PRS-through-a-Mesa-Triple-Rec dorks
out
> there who can't play their way out of a wet paper bag, meanwhile
> I've seen guys play a Squier Affinity through a Peavey who outplay,
> out-write, and out-perform the lot of 'em.
>
> What I mean is - the gear doesn't make the player. I saw some band
a
> few years ago in Miami for a garage rock fest - the guitarist comes
> onstage with a Dano Hodad, so I'm thinking to myself, this should
be
> pretty cool. He plugs in, they start playing, and they're hands-
down
> the worst metal band I've ever heard (it must be a So. Florida
> thing, pairing metal bands of some sort with garage/surf/rockabilly
> bands....I'll never figure that booking anomaly out, but I
digress).
>
> Meanwhile, I've seen Deke Dickerson play through an old Silvertone
> with no reverb whatsoever and his instro's were smokin'.
>
> On a side note - I have an outboard tank out of necessity - my
amp's
> reverb is pretty weak (a Reverend Hellhound head). Our rhythm
> guitarist has a RI Deluxe with no outboard, just uses the amp's
> reverb, and it sounds great too.
>
> Just my $.02\
>
> Patrick
> www.thecavefish.com
>
>
>
> > --- In , Dan Bartley
> <bigtwangguy@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that the majority
> of
> > members (myself included) agree that surf has to be played with
an
> > outboard tank. Allow me to throw in a new angle just for
> > conversations' sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
> > played with total mediocrity but with an outboard tank, or a surf
> > instro played with exceptional technique but with the onboard amp
> > reverb? What's the more important element for surf? The right
> > equipment or the right technique?
> > > Cheers
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think sound and songwriting are the two most important factors in
surf music. Above average playing skills often doesn't do it any good...
Klas / The Surfites
So you're advocating sucky playing.
No, in my book, good songs comes first. That teamed with ability on
the instrument makes great music. Never rely on your tone as a crutch.
--- In , "Klas Fjellgren" <surfites@b...>
wrote:
> I think sound and songwriting are the two most important factors in
> surf music. Above average playing skills often doesn't do it any
good...
>
> Klas / The Surfites
>
>
You apparently haven't had Big Tiki Dude and Baja Marty in your audience. Those
two discriminating surf fans gotta have that tank splash. It's true though, one
could play Pipeline using a Charvel/Jackson through a Korg all-in-one digital
pedal board into a solid state Roland Chorus amp with the chorus on full gallop
and the great majority of the audience would applaud.
- Marty (Planktone Marty)
----- Original Message -----
From: red_thundr
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 9:15 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard discussion
...I've yet to have an audience member comoplain because my reverb
didn't sound like it came from a tank...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To end this once and for all. Everyone here's favorte surf band
doesn't use reverb. That is right. I am talking about The Strange Dave
Rosenberg band.
I saw Shigeo play through a Yahama Chorus with very little on board
reverb and he was good. Not as good as the previous night with a tank
and Vibroverb. He couldn't kick the tank either.
Everyone makes a great point on the talent vs proper gear argument. It
is a hard argument because mediocre guitarist isn't define. Is Segovia
the technical player and compared to him is Knopfler the mediocre player?
Red, do you play an Artcore?
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> You apparently haven't had Big Tiki Dude and Baja Marty in your
audience. Those two discriminating surf fans gotta have that tank
splash. It's true though, one could play Pipeline using a
Charvel/Jackson through a Korg all-in-one digital pedal board into a
solid state Roland Chorus amp with the chorus on full gallop and the
great majority of the audience would applaud.
> - Marty (Planktone Marty)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: red_thundr
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 9:15 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard discussion
>
>
> ...I've yet to have an audience member comoplain because my reverb
> didn't sound like it came from a tank...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know if Klas was "advocating" anything, Red. He was prioritizing. I, on
the other hand will actually advocate sucky playing along with great tone and
great tunes. Sucky playing has often been just right for rock and roll. Link
Wray and Dick Dale technically suck as guitar players yet each of them played
great tunes with great tone and that combination made them the greats that they
are. Duane Eddy sucked as a guitar player but he had wonderfull tone and played
great songs. According to the late great technically proficient studio legend
Tommy Tedesco, Tommy was often asked to sound like Duane Eddy and rarely ever
asked to sound like Tommy Tedesco.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: red_thundr
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:10 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard discussion
So you're advocating sucky playing.
No, in my book, good songs comes first. That teamed with ability on
the instrument makes great music. Never rely on your tone as a crutch.
--- In , "Klas Fjellgren" <surfites@b...>
wrote:
> I think sound and songwriting are the two most important factors in
> surf music. Above average playing skills often doesn't do it any
good...
>
> Klas / The Surfites
>
>
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wanna chime in here and say that good songwriting
does make up for a lot, and we all know that some of
the best songs are the simplest. It's what gives a
guy like me incentive to keep playing the guitar.
Some of our "rock stars" that've been mentioned
previously along with a lot of other rock 'n roll guys
who were not technically that proficient still played
great songs that we're all still listening to to this
day.
Richard
__________________________________
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This is what makes Dick Dale so great. He just writes simple songs
like Smoke On the Water.
--- In , Richard <errant_jedi@y...> wrote:
>
> I wanna chime in here and say that good songwriting
> does make up for a lot, and we all know that some of
> the best songs are the simplest. It's what gives a
> guy like me incentive to keep playing the guitar.
> Some of our "rock stars" that've been mentioned
> previously along with a lot of other rock 'n roll guys
> who were not technically that proficient still played
> great songs that we're all still listening to to this
> day.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>
What's
> the more important element for surf? The right
> equipment or the right technique?
Both.................
---- Ferenc Dobronyi <> wrote:
> That's an apple or oranges comparison. Technique is
> free, equipment costs $. You can have the best gear on
> the planet and still play like crap.
> fd
>
> --- Dan Bartley <> wrote:
>
> > Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that
> > the majority of members (myself included) agree that
> > surf has to be played with an outboard tank. Allow
> > me to throw in a new angle just for conversations'
> > sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
> > played with total mediocrity but with an outboard
> > tank, or a surf instro played with exceptional
> > technique but with the onboard amp reverb? What's
> > the more important element for surf? The right
> > equipment or the right technique?
> > Cheers
> > Dan
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
... You just blew my mind.
By george I think that man is right.
--- In , <scanman@a...> wrote:
> What's
> > the more important element for surf? The right
> > equipment or the right technique?
>
> Both.................
>
> ---- Ferenc Dobronyi <ferencnd@y...> wrote:
> > That's an apple or oranges comparison. Technique is
> > free, equipment costs $. You can have the best gear on
> > the planet and still play like crap.
> > fd
> >
> > --- Dan Bartley <bigtwangguy@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > Re: the recent Guitar or Amp thread. It seems that
> > > the majority of members (myself included) agree that
> > > surf has to be played with an outboard tank. Allow
> > > me to throw in a new angle just for conversations'
> > > sake. Which would you rather hear? A surf instro
> > > played with total mediocrity but with an outboard
> > > tank, or a surf instro played with exceptional
> > > technique but with the onboard amp reverb? What's
> > > the more important element for surf? The right
> > > equipment or the right technique?
> > > Cheers
> > > Dan
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> You apparently haven't had Big Tiki Dude and Baja Marty in your
audience. Those two discriminating surf fans gotta have that tank
splash.
Believe me, I wouldn't care either way. I'm sure you two would be
the ones hanging out along the back wall with your arms crossed,
commenting to each other "I could have done it better/faster".
Whatever.
Nope, I'm not playing for those 2 or 3 poor nitpicky critics in the
back. I'm playing for the other 99.9% of people who are out on the
dance floor who are having a blast enjoying my music. They don't
care if I'm playing a Jazzmaster or a Flying V, or if my reverb is
vintage or digital. Deal with it.
It's true though, one could play Pipeline using a Charvel/Jackson
through a Korg all-in-one digital pedal board into a solid state
Roland Chorus amp with the chorus on full gallop and the great
majority of the audience would applaud.
> - Marty (Planktone Marty)
My point exactly.
Yeah, but just think, you could get back that .01% of your audience and still
have the other 99.9% if you just conform and follow the rules and play surf with
a tank.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: red_thundr
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:42 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard discussion
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> You apparently haven't had Big Tiki Dude and Baja Marty in your
audience. Those two discriminating surf fans gotta have that tank
splash.
Believe me, I wouldn't care either way. I'm sure you two would be
the ones hanging out along the back wall with your arms crossed,
commenting to each other "I could have done it better/faster".
Whatever.
Nope, I'm not playing for those 2 or 3 poor nitpicky critics in the
back. I'm playing for the other 99.9% of people who are out on the
dance floor who are having a blast enjoying my music. They don't
care if I'm playing a Jazzmaster or a Flying V, or if my reverb is
vintage or digital. Deal with it.
It's true though, one could play Pipeline using a Charvel/Jackson
through a Korg all-in-one digital pedal board into a solid state
Roland Chorus amp with the chorus on full gallop and the great
majority of the audience would applaud.
> - Marty (Planktone Marty)
My point exactly.
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What's more important than songs, and tone is originality. Technique is not all
that important. We can think of top surf players who are not technically great
but we can also think of celebrated surf guitarists who are technically great.
Both types have one thing in common, originality.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Jacob Dobner
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:17 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: the outboard vs. inboard discussion
This is what makes Dick Dale so great. He just writes simple songs
like Smoke On the Water.
--- In , Richard <errant_jedi@y...> wrote:
>
> I wanna chime in here and say that good songwriting
> does make up for a lot, and we all know that some of
> the best songs are the simplest. It's what gives a
> guy like me incentive to keep playing the guitar.
> Some of our "rock stars" that've been mentioned
> previously along with a lot of other rock 'n roll guys
> who were not technically that proficient still played
> great songs that we're all still listening to to this
> day.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
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