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When I was a wee lad, my guitar teacher told me that picking on the up
and the down stroke was called double picking. Every guitarist I've
talked to knows that term. That is the only term I heard used until the
last decade or so, not that it wasn't in use before (I don't know).
Here's the point, and it's about words, which have meanings. It seems
to me that tremolo is an incorrect term. Tremolo is a variation pitch
(string bending, whammy, vocals, etc.). Vibrato is a variation in
volume. Double picking is neither. So, I don't understand what
relationship the word "tremolo" has to double picking. I would think
staccato would be better.
Here's the question: Why or how did this term "tremolo" get applied to
double picking? Forgive my ignorance, but several searches have not
satisfied me on this one.
Phil
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> Here's the point, and it's about words, which have meanings. It seems
> to me that tremolo is an incorrect term. Tremolo is a variation pitch
> (string bending, whammy, vocals, etc.). Vibrato is a variation in
> volume. Double picking is neither. So, I don't understand what
> relationship the word "tremolo" has to double picking. I would think
> staccato would be better.
You got it backwards: tremolo == change in volume, vibrato == change
in pitch. But don't feel bad. Fender and others got this wrong also.
The tremolo on Fender amps is labeled vibrato, and the whammy bar on a
guitar is often called the tremolo bar or trem bar (when it actually
changes pitch). It's a common mistake.
> Here's the question: Why or how did this term "tremolo" get applied
to
> double picking? Forgive my ignorance, but several searches have not
> satisfied me on this one.
I don't know. I think it is just one of those stupid mistakes that got
propogated into common usage. That is the formal musical term for it
though...you can see it written on sheet music. It doesn't have to
make sense I guess.
This isn't quite the same thing, but when was the last time
you "dialed" a phone? :-)
BN
Interesting, I actually never heard double picking referred to as tremelo. Old
bastards like me still use the double picking term. Tremelo was even applied to
a swell effect in more recent years (past 10 years or so). For example, the
rotovibe pedal has 2 effects both grounded in a tremelo effect, one being
"Vibrato and the other is a swell effect using chorus, both are tremelo effects
at the base. Many have called the Vibrato effect things like Tremelo. True
tremelo is a volume thing clean with no other effects in it. As far as I know
here in Canada (if that makes a difference) Double picking is still just plain
old double picking.
I know that doesnt answer the question laid out but I was compelled to get in on
this conversation, so I threw in my 2 and 1/2 cents, even if its worth only 1.2%
in Canadian funds
Dan Coleman
Phil Dirt <> wrote:
When I was a wee lad, my guitar teacher told me that picking on the up
and the down stroke was called double picking. Every guitarist I've
talked to knows that term. That is the only term I heard used until the
last decade or so, not that it wasn't in use before (I don't know).
Here's the point, and it's about words, which have meanings. It seems
to me that tremolo is an incorrect term. Tremolo is a variation pitch
(string bending, whammy, vocals, etc.). Vibrato is a variation in
volume. Double picking is neither. So, I don't understand what
relationship the word "tremolo" has to double picking. I would think
staccato would be better.
Here's the question: Why or how did this term "tremolo" get applied to
double picking? Forgive my ignorance, but several searches have not
satisfied me on this one.
Phil
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More investigation. Dictionary.com defines:
tremolo:
n 1: (music) a tremulous effect produced by rapid repetition of a
single tone or rapid alternation of two tones 2: vocal vibrato
especially an excessive or poorly controlled one
(note: no reference to volume; this seems to back up the double
picking usage)
vibrato:
n : (music) a pulsating effect in an instrumental or vocal tone
produced by slight and rapid variations in pitch
Because both vibrato and tremolo have "pulsating effects" I guess it
is easy to get them mixed up. Note that on Fender amps the vibrato
channel is simply rapidly shutting off the volume; it is more
correctly a tremolo effect. Vox amps, I believe, actually have a
vibrato effect that changes the pitch somehow. Ivan?
BN
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> Here's the point, and it's about words, which have meanings. It seems
> to me that tremolo is an incorrect term. Tremolo is a variation pitch
> (string bending, whammy, vocals, etc.). Vibrato is a variation in
> volume.
Yep, Brian is right. Leo Fender was a brilliant guy, but he really
screwed up with these two terms!!! I guess he was just trying to be
different and didn't want to have a 'vibrato-unit' on his guitars,
like the others did. So, he thought he could call it a tremolo-unit -
which he apparently could, no matter how wrong, since that's what all
of us refer to it today!
> Here's the question: Why or how did this term "tremolo" get applied
to
> double picking?
My guess is it comes from mandolin playing, or some older
instruments. I think the players that play those instruments refer to
it as tremolo-picking. Dunno why....
Ivan
--- In , "Brian Neal" <bgneal@g...> wrote:
> More investigation. Dictionary.com defines:
>
> tremolo:
> n 1: (music) a tremulous effect produced by rapid repetition of a
> single tone or rapid alternation of two tones
Sounds right to me!
> Vox amps, I believe, actually have a
> vibrato effect that changes the pitch somehow. Ivan?
They do both. You can switch between a tremolo and a vibrato
(properly labeled in this case). I don't know many people that used
that vibrato through they years, but many have used the Vox tremolo,
which would not allow you to vary intensity - only speed. And the
intensity was rather high! Just the way surf guitarists like it,
though not necessarily what most normal guitarists like.
Ivan
Phil Dirt wrote > Here's the point, and it's about words, which have
meanings.
Well, that is not true actually - written words are ombinations of
abstract little pictures. spoken words are just a combination of sounds.
the point is - words don 't have meaning, meanings are attached to
them - in philosophical terms, the relationship between linguistic
symbols and concepts is entirely contingent.
but, for the sake of argument, is true that communication would turn
out rather difficult if don't agree to some level about attaching more
or less the same meaning to words.
sorry for the little rant there, just wanted to point it out, not menat
personally
okay, enough jabba jabba
I've heard both terms used frequently. I figured that the sound
supposedly mimicks real fast tremolo (volume up and down), and i can
see the logic in that. or maybe it first was trem-picking derived
from 'tremor'- which then became tremolo picking ;-)
double picking doesn't make sense either btw, it's more like
gazillioniple picking.
and why the heck do they call a double bass a double bass?
WR
From Mirian-Websters Online
One entry found for tremolo.
Main Entry: trem·o·lo
Pronunciation: 'tre-m&-"lO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -los
Etymology: Italian, from tremolo tremulous, from Latin tremulus
1 a : the rapid reiteration of a musical tone or of alternating tones
to produce a tremulous effect b : vocal vibrato especially when
prominent or excessive
2 : a mechanical device in an organ for causing a tremulous effect
One entry found for vibrato.
Main Entry: vi·bra·to
Pronunciation: vi-'brä-(")tO, vI-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -tos
Etymology: Italian, from past participle of vibrare to vibrate, from
Latin
: a slightly tremulous effect imparted to vocal or instrumental tone
for added warmth and expressiveness by slight and rapid variations in
pitch
- vi·bra·to·less /-l&s/ adjective
Well, that's sure clear!
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
---------------------------------
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> Here's the point, and it's about words, which have meanings. It seems
> to me that tremolo is an incorrect term. Tremolo is a variation pitch
> (string bending, whammy, vocals, etc.). Vibrato is a variation in
> volume. Double picking is neither. So, I don't understand what
> relationship the word "tremolo" has to double picking. I would think
> staccato would be better.
You got it backwards: tremolo == change in volume, vibrato == change
in pitch. But don't feel bad. Fender and others got this wrong also.
The tremolo on Fender amps is labeled vibrato, and the whammy bar on a
guitar is often called the tremolo bar or trem bar (when it actually
changes pitch). It's a common mistake.
> Here's the question: Why or how did this term "tremolo" get applied
to
> double picking? Forgive my ignorance, but several searches have not
> satisfied me on this one.
I don't know. I think it is just one of those stupid mistakes that got
propogated into common usage. That is the formal musical term for it
though...you can see it written on sheet music. It doesn't have to
make sense I guess.
This isn't quite the same thing, but when was the last time
you "dialed" a phone? :-)
BN
.
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So, "rapid repetition of a single tone" is double picking... when it's
fast enough I guess. That's what I get for being a Fender man!
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
---------------------------------
More investigation. Dictionary.com defines:
tremolo:
n 1: (music) a tremulous effect produced by rapid repetition of a
single tone or rapid alternation of two tones 2: vocal vibrato
especially an excessive or poorly controlled one
(note: no reference to volume; this seems to back up the double
picking usage)
vibrato:
n : (music) a pulsating effect in an instrumental or vocal tone
produced by slight and rapid variations in pitch
Because both vibrato and tremolo have "pulsating effects" I guess it
is easy to get them mixed up. Note that on Fender amps the vibrato
channel is simply rapidly shutting off the volume; it is more
correctly a tremolo effect. Vox amps, I believe, actually have a
vibrato effect that changes the pitch somehow. Ivan?
BN
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Double picking 'cuz picking occirs in both strokes, not one... at least
that's what my guitar teacher said. He was rhythm playr in the
Torquays, so I assumed he knew his stuff 'cuz THEY were AMAZING! Me, on
the other hand, never developed enough meter or fluidity to get beyond
"Surf Beat" in my bedroom.
--- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
double picking doesn't make sense either btw, it's more like
gazillioniple picking.
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> When I was a wee lad, my guitar teacher told me that picking on the up
> and the down stroke was called double picking...
I was taught to "double pick" with alternate up-and-down strokes, as opposed to
all down
strokes. "Triplets" are three notes in the space where two would usually fit in
the bar, but
it is understood that it requires double picking - a little point of confusion.
"Staccato"
picking is rapid, continuous double picking. "Trem picking" (the phrase, not the
technique)
I picked up from the folks on this list, and is synonymous with "staccato"!
I like the word "staccato" best, cause it sounds like the actual musical effect
- rapid-fire
notes, like a machine gun on full automatic. The word fairly barks at you!
G
Phil:
you are 100% correct..."tremelo picking" is a
misnomer..."stacato picking" is the accurate term.
"staccato double-picking" is even better...
I don't know why some people use the term "tremelo
picking"...maybe it's a "1980s" metal-guitar term?
-dp
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> When I was a wee lad, my guitar teacher told me that
> picking on the up
> and the down stroke was called double picking. Every
> guitarist I've
> talked to knows that term. That is the only term I heard
> used until the
> last decade or so, not that it wasn't in use before (I
> don't know).
>
> Here's the point, and it's about words, which have
> meanings. It seems
> to me that tremolo is an incorrect term. Tremolo is a
> variation pitch
> (string bending, whammy, vocals, etc.). Vibrato is a
> variation in
> volume. Double picking is neither. So, I don't understand
> what
> relationship the word "tremolo" has to double picking. I
> would think
> staccato would be better.
>
> Here's the question: Why or how did this term "tremolo"
> get applied to
> double picking? Forgive my ignorance, but several
> searches have not
> satisfied me on this one.
>
> Phil
>
>
> .
> Visit for
> archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> Phil:
>
> you are 100% correct..."tremelo picking" is a
> misnomer..."stacato picking" is the accurate term.
> "staccato double-picking" is even better...
>
> I don't know why some people use the term "tremelo
> picking"...maybe it's a "1980s" metal-guitar term?
>
> -dp
Well after looking up tremolo and tremulous in the dictionary, I now
have come around and believe that tremolo picking *is* the correct term.
Staccato, to me, implies abrupt, cut short, choppy notes with a marked
"space" between each note.
tremolo
n 1: (music) a tremulous effect produced by rapid repetition of a
single tone or rapid alternation of two tones
BN
hmmm...I guess the Webster definition makes sense...but, I
still like the "staccato" term better...maybe I'm just old
and confused...I see what you mean about choppy staccato
lines...
Staccato:
Etymology: Italian, from past participle of staccare to
detach, from s- ex- (from Latin ex-) + attaccare to attack,
attach, perhaps from Old French estachier -- more at ATTACH
1 a : cut short or apart in performing : DISCONNECTED
<staccato notes> b : marked by short clear-cut playing or
singing of tones or chords <a staccato style>
Tremolo (again):
1 a : the rapid reiteration of a musical tone or of
alternating tones to produce a tremulous effect...
maybe tremelo double picking would be best according to
Webster.
???-dp
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
> --- In , DP <noetical1@y...>
> wrote:
> > Phil:
> >
> > you are 100% correct..."tremelo picking" is a
> > misnomer..."stacato picking" is the accurate term.
> > "staccato double-picking" is even better...
> >
> > I don't know why some people use the term "tremelo
> > picking"...maybe it's a "1980s" metal-guitar term?
> >
> > -dp
>
> Well after looking up tremolo and tremulous in the
> dictionary, I now
> have come around and believe that tremolo picking *is*
> the correct term.
>
> Staccato, to me, implies abrupt, cut short, choppy notes
> with a marked
> "space" between each note.
>
> tremolo
>
> n 1: (music) a tremulous effect produced by rapid
> repetition of a
> single tone or rapid alternation of two tones
>
> BN
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for
> archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
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> maybe tremelo double picking would be best according to
> Webster.
>
> ???-dp
Ha-ha. I love getting wrapped around the axle like this. I am totally
fine with double picking. :-)
BN
wrapped around an axle...that is totally how it
feels!...just like good old Philosophy/Logic class back in
college...
awww...I still like "staccato"...for the machine
gun/percussive/attacking connotative qualities...
-dp
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
> > maybe tremelo double picking would be best according to
> > Webster.
> >
> > ???-dp
>
> Ha-ha. I love getting wrapped around the axle like this.
> I am totally
> fine with double picking. :-)
>
> BN
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for
> archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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