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I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does anybody
know if
this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
comments.
Yes, it is a common practice. I found 2 and 3 shims on both my AV and CIJ
Jazzmasters.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: reverbtron
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] New Jazzmaster with shims
I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does anybody
know if
this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
comments.
.
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It's been my experience with literally dozens of electric guitars with bolt-on
necks that shims are commonly used, not just by Fender, but by most guitar
makers, to help make the fretboard closer to parallel with the strings, allowing
for a uniformly lower string action from nut to 22nd fret than you could
otherwise obtain.
If you find the presence of the shim a negative, then remove it, but expect to
have to adjust the saddle height DOWN, perhaps by as much as 2-3mm, and you will
now have strings that are visibly higher off the 21st fret than off the 5th!
The choice is yours, but I've never minded having the uniform string height, and
let's face it, no one but you has to know there's a shim in there!
BTW, I've seen many a Japanese electric guitar of the 80's and 90's with a shim
in the neck pocket, so please don't leap to conclusions that your Jazzmaster
was shoddily made. The shim is just a fine-tuning tweak, at the factory level,
to bring string action as close as possible to optimal for the player.
reverbtron <> wrote:
I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does anybody
know if
this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
comments.
.
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Hey man,
It beats usin' a couple of toothpicks..................
B-B-O
---- bruce duncan <> wrote:
> It's been my experience with literally dozens of electric guitars with bolt-on
necks that shims are commonly used, not just by Fender, but by most guitar
makers, to help make the fretboard closer to parallel with the strings, allowing
for a uniformly lower string action from nut to 22nd fret than you could
otherwise obtain.
>
> If you find the presence of the shim a negative, then remove it, but expect to
have to adjust the saddle height DOWN, perhaps by as much as 2-3mm, and you will
now have strings that are visibly higher off the 21st fret than off the 5th!
The choice is yours, but I've never minded having the uniform string height, and
let's face it, no one but you has to know there's a shim in there!
>
> BTW, I've seen many a Japanese electric guitar of the 80's and 90's with a
shim in the neck pocket, so please don't leap to conclusions that your
Jazzmaster was shoddily made. The shim is just a fine-tuning tweak, at the
factory level, to bring string action as close as possible to optimal for the
player.
>
> reverbtron <> wrote:
> I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does anybody
know if
> this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
> comments.
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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>
Well I think that's the point of the complaint, Bruce. If the goal is better
action with the strings being parallel to the neck, why didn't Fencer design the
neck pocket to meet that goal? They do a purdy good job with the Strats. I've
had many strats and I recall none with factory installed shims.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: bruce duncan
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] New Jazzmaster with shims
It's been my experience with literally dozens of electric guitars with bolt-on
necks that shims are commonly used, not just by Fender, but by most guitar
makers, to help make the fretboard closer to parallel with the strings, allowing
for a uniformly lower string action from nut to 22nd fret than you could
otherwise obtain.
If you find the presence of the shim a negative, then remove it, but expect to
have to adjust the saddle height DOWN, perhaps by as much as 2-3mm, and you will
now have strings that are visibly higher off the 21st fret than off the 5th!
The choice is yours, but I've never minded having the uniform string height, and
let's face it, no one but you has to know there's a shim in there!
BTW, I've seen many a Japanese electric guitar of the 80's and 90's with a
shim in the neck pocket, so please don't leap to conclusions that your
Jazzmaster was shoddily made. The shim is just a fine-tuning tweak, at the
factory level, to bring string action as close as possible to optimal for the
player.
reverbtron <> wrote:
I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does anybody
know if
this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
comments.
.
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Neither of my CIJ Jaguar or Jazzmaster came with shims although I've
added some to the Jaguar.
Klas / The Surfites
--- In , "reverbtron" <fheapes@o...> wrote:
> I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does
anybody know if
> this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
> comments.
Poor craftmanship?? I dunno, you've already got a bolt on neck there,
so a few shims aren't really going to change much. Infact, I've added
two shims to any CIJ Jaguar or Jazzmaster I've owned, and one extra
shim to those that already came with my USA Jaguars. So my complaint
is that Fender isn't putting ENOUGH shims with these guitars.
How about the break angle of the strings over the bridge to
tailpiece? If you take those shims out your probably going to have to
get a Buzz Stop(yuk!). Because, without those shims you're going to
have to lower that bridge a lot, the bridge may start to buzz, and you
maybe more likely to strum the strings out of the grooves on the
saddles. So what if the neck is shimmed, your playing a Jazzmaster or
a Jaguar?... the problems most people complain about in their tone
when they have added shims to their guitar are usually after some
warm/sustainy woman-tone. Take the shims out, that guitar will still
sound pretty much the same. Such a uniqly designed guitar anyway, and
so unfender like with the string through top loading tailpiece,
floating bridge, etc.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
--- In , "Klas Fjellgren" <surfites@b...>
wrote:
> Neither of my CIJ Jaguar or Jazzmaster came with shims although I've
> added some to the Jaguar.
>
> Klas / The Surfites
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "reverbtron" <fheapes@o...>
wrote:
> > I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck.
Does
> anybody know if
> > this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this
poor
> craftmanship. Any
> > comments.
Sure a bolt-on already brings Fender guitars to a certain level of qualtiy but
if Jazzmasters consistantly need shims, it indicates that Fender could give the
neck pocket a better cut. This is not a problem I have seen with most Strats. A
few strats, yes, but not all as is the case with Jazzmasters. Some newer Fenders
have that have that nice micro-tilt feature (on a 4-bolt neck).
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: supertwangreverb
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 4:45 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Jazzmaster with shims
Poor craftmanship?? I dunno, you've already got a bolt on neck there,
so a few shims aren't really going to change much. Infact, I've added
two shims to any CIJ Jaguar or Jazzmaster I've owned, and one extra
shim to those that already came with my USA Jaguars. So my complaint
is that Fender isn't putting ENOUGH shims with these guitars.
How about the break angle of the strings over the bridge to
tailpiece? If you take those shims out your probably going to have to
get a Buzz Stop(yuk!). Because, without those shims you're going to
have to lower that bridge a lot, the bridge may start to buzz, and you
maybe more likely to strum the strings out of the grooves on the
saddles. So what if the neck is shimmed, your playing a Jazzmaster or
a Jaguar?... the problems most people complain about in their tone
when they have added shims to their guitar are usually after some
warm/sustainy woman-tone. Take the shims out, that guitar will still
sound pretty much the same. Such a uniqly designed guitar anyway, and
so unfender like with the string through top loading tailpiece,
floating bridge, etc.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
--- In , "Klas Fjellgren" <surfites@b...>
wrote:
> Neither of my CIJ Jaguar or Jazzmaster came with shims although I've
> added some to the Jaguar.
>
> Klas / The Surfites
>
>
>
>
> --- In , "reverbtron" <fheapes@o...>
wrote:
> > I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck.
Does
> anybody know if
> > this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this
poor
> craftmanship. Any
> > comments.
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> Sure a bolt-on already brings Fender guitars to a certain level of
qualtiy but if Jazzmasters consistantly need shims, it indicates that
Fender could give the neck pocket a better cut. This is not a problem
I have seen with most Strats. A few strats, yes, but not all as is the
case with Jazzmasters. Some newer Fenders have that have that nice
micro-tilt feature (on a 4-bolt neck).
> -Marty
Do Strats have shims? It was my understanding that Fender added shims
to the Jazzmaster/Jaguar because of their "unique" bridge/tailpiece
design. They aren't needed on strats. That was my understanding anyway.
I think what Marty is asking is why doesn't Fender cut the neck pocket
at an angle so shims aren't needed. I would imagine the cost is the
reason? The AV series is supposed to duplicate the vintage guitars,
and they used shims, so the AV series does too.
Maybe one day if Fender ever makes a "modern" updated
Jazzmaster/Jaguar we would see an angled neck pocket or micro tilt
thingy. And a screw in trem arm for the love of .... ;-)
From all my reading on the Fender Forum years ago, I don't think the
MIJ and CIJ guitars had shims.
BN
> From all my reading on the Fender Forum years ago, I don't think the
> MIJ and CIJ guitars had shims.
Forgot to add: Which is actually a "bad" thing.
BN
--- In , "Brian Neal" <bgneal@g...> wrote:
> --- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
>
> I think what Marty is asking is why doesn't Fender cut the neck pocket
> at an angle so shims aren't needed. I would imagine the cost is the
> reason? The AV series is supposed to duplicate the vintage guitars,
> and they used shims, so the AV series does too.
'proper design' would give the strat a neckpocket parallel to top
surface, and JM/jag an angled one. I would guess that with the
machinery available back in the sixties, it would be very difficult to
cut an angled neckpocket at just the right angle. With the equipment
available today it would be possible i guess, but i don't know what
fender is using now.
WR
I've seen several US, Mexi, Jap, and Korean (Squier) Strats, all of which had or
needed shims to minimize string height up and down the fretboard.
Brian Neal <> wrote:--- In , "Marty
Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> Sure a bolt-on already brings Fender guitars to a certain level of
qualtiy but if Jazzmasters consistantly need shims, it indicates that
Fender could give the neck pocket a better cut. This is not a problem
I have seen with most Strats. A few strats, yes, but not all as is the
case with Jazzmasters. Some newer Fenders have that have that nice
micro-tilt feature (on a 4-bolt neck).
> -Marty
Do Strats have shims? It was my understanding that Fender added shims
to the Jazzmaster/Jaguar because of their "unique" bridge/tailpiece
design. They aren't needed on strats. That was my understanding anyway.
I think what Marty is asking is why doesn't Fender cut the neck pocket
at an angle so shims aren't needed. I would imagine the cost is the
reason? The AV series is supposed to duplicate the vintage guitars,
and they used shims, so the AV series does too.
Maybe one day if Fender ever makes a "modern" updated
Jazzmaster/Jaguar we would see an angled neck pocket or micro tilt
thingy. And a screw in trem arm for the love of .... ;-)
From all my reading on the Fender Forum years ago, I don't think the
MIJ and CIJ guitars had shims.
BN
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yeah, Marty, I understand the complaint. The use of robotic, computer
controlled cutting and shaping tools was non-existent 35-50 years ago, when all
those classic, mega-buck (in today's collector market) vintage Strats, Teles,
J/M's and Jaguars were being mass-produced, to the (then) lowest-possible cost
of production.
Just exactly how one would devise a router that could cut a perfectly angled,
(rather than level) neck pocket, in 1955 or 1965 is something that escapes me.
My father was a master woodworker, who made the most artistic furniture and
wood-sculptures as a hobby. He invested today's equivalent of $50,000 to equip
his workshop with the best, most sophisticated power tools available as of the
mid-60's, and when it came to routing, there was no way to cut an angled pocket,
unless one wanted to spend 15-20 minutes, meticulouly going back and forth,
tweaking the depth setting, and being very careful to manually keep re-setting
router depth numerous times, to get the effect of an angled cut, with some
semblance of a smooth, even surface.
I honestly do not believe Leo had access to better equipment, in the sense of
being able to automatically make angled routs. Multiply the time factor here
over Fender's typical production run of 40 years ago, and those 15-20 minute
additional minutes spent on each guitar would add up to a whopping difference in
labor costs, when the flat routing could have been done in 60-90 seconds!
Adding a shim to a flat rout was the far more economic answer.
Today, I'd bet with the fancy computer-operated factory machinery available, one
could easily set up a robotic router to cut a perfectly smooth and angled rout
every time, and in minimal time. However, as others have observed, in
recreating the AV reissues, Fender has pledged to come as close as humanly
possible to the original spec's, materials, and production techniques that were
used in the 50's and 60's. That most obviously would include the way the neck
pockets are routed, with the subsequent use of shims.
Micro-Tilt isn't a an original vintage feature unless you consider the
abominations that CBS was producing during the 70's to be "vintage".
Bruce D
Marty Tippens <> wrote:
Well I think that's the point of the complaint, Bruce. If the goal is better
action with the strings being parallel to the neck, why didn't Fencer design the
neck pocket to meet that goal? They do a purdy good job with the Strats. I've
had many strats and I recall none with factory installed shims.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: bruce duncan
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] New Jazzmaster with shims
It's been my experience with literally dozens of electric guitars with bolt-on
necks that shims are commonly used, not just by Fender, but by most guitar
makers, to help make the fretboard closer to parallel with the strings, allowing
for a uniformly lower string action from nut to 22nd fret than you could
otherwise obtain.
If you find the presence of the shim a negative, then remove it, but expect to
have to adjust the saddle height DOWN, perhaps by as much as 2-3mm, and you will
now have strings that are visibly higher off the 21st fret than off the 5th!
The choice is yours, but I've never minded having the uniform string height, and
let's face it, no one but you has to know there's a shim in there!
BTW, I've seen many a Japanese electric guitar of the 80's and 90's with a
shim in the neck pocket, so please don't leap to conclusions that your
Jazzmaster was shoddily made. The shim is just a fine-tuning tweak, at the
factory level, to bring string action as close as possible to optimal for the
player.
reverbtron <> wrote:
I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does anybody
know if
this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
comments.
.
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---------------------------------
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Hey Bruce,
Yes, modern tech helps. I do recall old Fenders needing shims on occasion, but
not consistently.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: bruce duncan
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] New Jazzmaster with shims
Yeah, Marty, I understand the complaint. The use of robotic, computer
controlled cutting and shaping tools was non-existent 35-50 years ago, when all
those classic, mega-buck (in today's collector market) vintage Strats, Teles,
J/M's and Jaguars were being mass-produced, to the (then) lowest-possible cost
of production.
Just exactly how one would devise a router that could cut a perfectly angled,
(rather than level) neck pocket, in 1955 or 1965 is something that escapes me.
My father was a master woodworker, who made the most artistic furniture and
wood-sculptures as a hobby. He invested today's equivalent of $50,000 to equip
his workshop with the best, most sophisticated power tools available as of the
mid-60's, and when it came to routing, there was no way to cut an angled pocket,
unless one wanted to spend 15-20 minutes, meticulouly going back and forth,
tweaking the depth setting, and being very careful to manually keep re-setting
router depth numerous times, to get the effect of an angled cut, with some
semblance of a smooth, even surface.
I honestly do not believe Leo had access to better equipment, in the sense of
being able to automatically make angled routs. Multiply the time factor here
over Fender's typical production run of 40 years ago, and those 15-20 minute
additional minutes spent on each guitar would add up to a whopping difference in
labor costs, when the flat routing could have been done in 60-90 seconds!
Adding a shim to a flat rout was the far more economic answer.
Today, I'd bet with the fancy computer-operated factory machinery available,
one could easily set up a robotic router to cut a perfectly smooth and angled
rout every time, and in minimal time. However, as others have observed, in
recreating the AV reissues, Fender has pledged to come as close as humanly
possible to the original spec's, materials, and production techniques that were
used in the 50's and 60's. That most obviously would include the way the neck
pockets are routed, with the subsequent use of shims.
Micro-Tilt isn't a an original vintage feature unless you consider the
abominations that CBS was producing during the 70's to be "vintage".
Bruce D
Marty Tippens <> wrote:
Well I think that's the point of the complaint, Bruce. If the goal is better
action with the strings being parallel to the neck, why didn't Fencer design the
neck pocket to meet that goal? They do a purdy good job with the Strats. I've
had many strats and I recall none with factory installed shims.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: bruce duncan
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] New Jazzmaster with shims
It's been my experience with literally dozens of electric guitars with
bolt-on necks that shims are commonly used, not just by Fender, but by most
guitar makers, to help make the fretboard closer to parallel with the strings,
allowing for a uniformly lower string action from nut to 22nd fret than you
could otherwise obtain.
If you find the presence of the shim a negative, then remove it, but expect
to have to adjust the saddle height DOWN, perhaps by as much as 2-3mm, and you
will now have strings that are visibly higher off the 21st fret than off the
5th! The choice is yours, but I've never minded having the uniform string
height, and let's face it, no one but you has to know there's a shim in there!
BTW, I've seen many a Japanese electric guitar of the 80's and 90's with a
shim in the neck pocket, so please don't leap to conclusions that your
Jazzmaster was shoddily made. The shim is just a fine-tuning tweak, at the
factory level, to bring string action as close as possible to optimal for the
player.
reverbtron <> wrote:
I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck. Does
anybody know if
this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this poor
craftmanship. Any
comments.
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
---------------------------------
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I'm sure several Strats exist that way but most are not shipped with shims nor
do they need 'em. It's apparently the rule that most Jazzmasters are shipped
with shims.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: bruce duncan
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: New Jazzmaster with shims
I've seen several US, Mexi, Jap, and Korean (Squier) Strats, all of which had
or needed shims to minimize string height up and down the fretboard.
Brian Neal <> wrote:--- In ,
"Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> Sure a bolt-on already brings Fender guitars to a certain level of
qualtiy but if Jazzmasters consistantly need shims, it indicates that
Fender could give the neck pocket a better cut. This is not a problem
I have seen with most Strats. A few strats, yes, but not all as is the
case with Jazzmasters. Some newer Fenders have that have that nice
micro-tilt feature (on a 4-bolt neck).
> -Marty
Do Strats have shims? It was my understanding that Fender added shims
to the Jazzmaster/Jaguar because of their "unique" bridge/tailpiece
design. They aren't needed on strats. That was my understanding anyway.
I think what Marty is asking is why doesn't Fender cut the neck pocket
at an angle so shims aren't needed. I would imagine the cost is the
reason? The AV series is supposed to duplicate the vintage guitars,
and they used shims, so the AV series does too.
Maybe one day if Fender ever makes a "modern" updated
Jazzmaster/Jaguar we would see an angled neck pocket or micro tilt
thingy. And a screw in trem arm for the love of .... ;-)
From all my reading on the Fender Forum years ago, I don't think the
MIJ and CIJ guitars had shims.
BN
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Bruce, I think if you asked your father or some other woodworker,
you'll find that it would be quite simple to make a jig to rout
adjustable angles on the neck pocket. However I'm sure the reason they
didn't do that is if you inadvertently taken too much wood away, it's
too much trouble to glue more in. Why risk it? - shims are reversible.
Danny
On Jul 3, 2005, at 1:25 PM, bruce duncan wrote:
> Yeah, Marty, I understand the complaint. The use of robotic, computer
> controlled cutting and shaping tools was non-existent 35-50 years ago,
> when all those classic, mega-buck (in today's collector market)
> vintage Strats, Teles, J/M's and Jaguars were being mass-produced, to
> the (then) lowest-possible cost of production.
>
> Just exactly how one would devise a router that could cut a perfectly
> angled, (rather than level) neck pocket, in 1955 or 1965 is something
> that escapes me. My father was a master woodworker, who made the most
> artistic furniture and wood-sculptures as a hobby. He invested
> today's equivalent of $50,000 to equip his workshop with the best,
> most sophisticated power tools available as of the mid-60's, and when
> it came to routing, there was no way to cut an angled pocket, unless
> one wanted to spend 15-20 minutes, meticulouly going back and forth,
> tweaking the depth setting, and being very careful to manually keep
> re-setting router depth numerous times, to get the effect of an angled
> cut, with some semblance of a smooth, even surface.Â
>
> I honestly do not believe Leo had access to better equipment, in the
> sense of being able to automatically make angled routs. Multiply the
> time factor here over Fender's typical production run of 40 years ago,
> and those 15-20 minute additional minutes spent on each guitar would
> add up to a whopping difference in labor costs, when the flat routing
> could have been done in 60-90 seconds! Adding a shim to a flat rout
> was the far more economic answer.
>
> Today, I'd bet with the fancy computer-operated factory machinery
> available, one could easily set up a robotic router to cut a perfectly
> smooth and angled rout every time, and in minimal time. However, as
> others have observed, in recreating the AV reissues, Fender has
> pledged to come as close as humanly possible to the original spec's,
> materials, and production techniques that were used in the 50's and
> 60's. That most obviously would include the way the neck pockets are
> routed, with the subsequent use of shims.
>
> Micro-Tilt isn't a an original vintage feature unless you consider
> the abominations that CBS was producing during the 70's to be
> "vintage".
>
> Bruce D
>
> Marty Tippens <> wrote:
> Well I think that's the point of the complaint, Bruce. If the goal is
> better action with the strings being parallel to the neck, why didn't
> Fencer design the neck pocket to meet that goal? They do a purdy good
> job with the Strats. I've had many strats and I recall none with
> factory installed shims.
> -Marty
> Â ----- Original Message -----
> Â From: bruce duncan
> Â To:
> Â Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 11:01 PM
> Â Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] New Jazzmaster with shims
>
>
> Â It's been my experience with literally dozens of electric guitars
> with bolt-on necks that shims are commonly used, not just by Fender,
> but by most guitar makers, to help make the fretboard closer to
> parallel with the strings, allowing for a uniformly lower string
> action from nut to 22nd fret than you could otherwise obtain.
>
> Â If you find the presence of the shim a negative, then remove it,
> but expect to have to adjust the saddle height DOWN, perhaps by as
> much as 2-3mm, and you will now have strings that are visibly higher
> off the 21st fret than off the 5th! The choice is yours, but I've
> never minded having the uniform string height, and let's face it, no
> one but you has to know there's a shim in there!
>
> Â BTW, I've seen many a Japanese electric guitar of the 80's and 90's
> with a shim in the neck pocket, so please don't leap to conclusions
> that your Jazzmaster was shoddily made. The shim is just a
> fine-tuning tweak, at the factory level, to bring string action as
> close as possible to optimal for the player.
>
> Â reverbtron <> wrote:
> Â I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck.Â
> Does anybody know if
>  this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this
> poor craftmanship. Any
> Â comments.
>
>
>
>
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Danny, since he passed away in 1996 you have no idea how many times I've wished
he was still around so I could ask him this or that question. I was thinking
more along the lines of what kind of ready-made machine equipment would have
been available to Leo Fender 40 to 50 years ago, and, since apparently the level
neck-pocket routing was not as much an issue on the Tele and Strat, would it
have made economic sense for him to change everything around for the J/M and
Jag, when shims are quick and cheap.
Bruce D wrote:
Bruce, I think if you asked your father or some other woodworker,
you'll find that it would be quite simple to make a jig to rout
adjustable angles on the neck pocket. However I'm sure the reason they
didn't do that is if you inadvertently taken too much wood away, it's
too much trouble to glue more in. Why risk it? - shims are reversible.
Danny
On Jul 3, 2005, at 1:25 PM, bruce duncan wrote:
> Yeah, Marty, I understand the complaint. The use of robotic, computer
> controlled cutting and shaping tools was non-existent 35-50 years ago,
> when all those classic, mega-buck (in today's collector market)
> vintage Strats, Teles, J/M's and Jaguars were being mass-produced, to
> the (then) lowest-possible cost of production.
>
> Just exactly how one would devise a router that could cut a perfectly
> angled, (rather than level) neck pocket, in 1955 or 1965 is something
> that escapes me. My father was a master woodworker, who made the most
> artistic furniture and wood-sculptures as a hobby. He invested
> today's equivalent of $50,000 to equip his workshop with the best,
> most sophisticated power tools available as of the mid-60's, and when
> it came to routing, there was no way to cut an angled pocket, unless
> one wanted to spend 15-20 minutes, meticulouly going back and forth,
> tweaking the depth setting, and being very careful to manually keep
> re-setting router depth numerous times, to get the effect of an angled
> cut, with some semblance of a smooth, even surface.Â
>
> I honestly do not believe Leo had access to better equipment, in the
> sense of being able to automatically make angled routs. Multiply the
> time factor here over Fender's typical production run of 40 years ago,
> and those 15-20 minute additional minutes spent on each guitar would
> add up to a whopping difference in labor costs, when the flat routing
> could have been done in 60-90 seconds! Adding a shim to a flat rout
> was the far more economic answer.
>
> Today, I'd bet with the fancy computer-operated factory machinery
> available, one could easily set up a robotic router to cut a perfectly
> smooth and angled rout every time, and in minimal time. However, as
> others have observed, in recreating the AV reissues, Fender has
> pledged to come as close as humanly possible to the original spec's,
> materials, and production techniques that were used in the 50's and
> 60's. That most obviously would include the way the neck pockets are
> routed, with the subsequent use of shims.
>
> Micro-Tilt isn't a an original vintage feature unless you consider
> the abominations that CBS was producing during the 70's to be
> "vintage".
>
> Bruce D
>
> Marty Tippens <> wrote:
> Well I think that's the point of the complaint, Bruce. If the goal is
> better action with the strings being parallel to the neck, why didn't
> Fencer design the neck pocket to meet that goal? They do a purdy good
> job with the Strats. I've had many strats and I recall none with
> factory installed shims.
> -Marty
> Â ----- Original Message -----
> Â From: bruce duncan
> Â To:
> Â Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 11:01 PM
> Â Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] New Jazzmaster with shims
>
>
> Â It's been my experience with literally dozens of electric guitars
> with bolt-on necks that shims are commonly used, not just by Fender,
> but by most guitar makers, to help make the fretboard closer to
> parallel with the strings, allowing for a uniformly lower string
> action from nut to 22nd fret than you could otherwise obtain.
>
> Â If you find the presence of the shim a negative, then remove it,
> but expect to have to adjust the saddle height DOWN, perhaps by as
> much as 2-3mm, and you will now have strings that are visibly higher
> off the 21st fret than off the 5th! The choice is yours, but I've
> never minded having the uniform string height, and let's face it, no
> one but you has to know there's a shim in there!
>
> Â BTW, I've seen many a Japanese electric guitar of the 80's and 90's
> with a shim in the neck pocket, so please don't leap to conclusions
> that your Jazzmaster was shoddily made. The shim is just a
> fine-tuning tweak, at the factory level, to bring string action as
> close as possible to optimal for the player.
>
> Â reverbtron <> wrote:
> Â I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under the neck.Â
> Does anybody know if
>  this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed with this
> poor craftmanship. Any
> Â comments.
>
>
>
>
> Â .
> Â Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> Â ---------------------------------
> Â YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Â Â Â Â Â Visit your group "SurfGuitar101" on the web.
> Â Â Â
> Â Â Â Â Â To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Â
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> Â Â Â Â Â Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
here's the deal on shims being used on Fender US
vintage reissues. Jazzmasters typically get 3 shims,
Jaguars 4 shims, and all othe Vintage reissues usually
get one shim. The reissue Jazz/Jag pockets are low,
and always have been. There is currently no energy
being devoted to changing this. With the number of
guitars being built daily {more than several hundred}
there are a lot bigger fires to put out.
If you have a guitar built by a Custom Shop Master
Builder such as Dennis Galuska, he will get the neck
pocket depth, and angle exactly where it needs to be
without using shims. Also, you can specify that things
like tuning key headstock holes will be in proper,
original vintage location.
have a cool 4th!
-dave
--- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> --- In , "Brian Neal"
> <bgneal@g...> wrote:
> > --- In , "Marty
> Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
>
> >
> > I think what Marty is asking is why doesn't Fender
> cut the neck pocket
> > at an angle so shims aren't needed. I would
> imagine the cost is the
> > reason? The AV series is supposed to duplicate the
> vintage guitars,
> > and they used shims, so the AV series does too.
>
>
> 'proper design' would give the strat a neckpocket
> parallel to top
> surface, and JM/jag an angled one. I would guess
> that with the
> machinery available back in the sixties, it would be
> very difficult to
> cut an angled neckpocket at just the right angle.
> With the equipment
> available today it would be possible i guess, but i
> don't know what
> fender is using now.
>
> WR
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit
> for archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
>
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Dave, the nut on my AV Jag broke. Are there any specifications that I
should make sure to tell the guy who cuts the new nut?
--- In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote:
> here's the deal on shims being used on Fender US
> vintage reissues. Jazzmasters typically get 3 shims,
> Jaguars 4 shims, and all othe Vintage reissues usually
> get one shim. The reissue Jazz/Jag pockets are low,
> and always have been. There is currently no energy
> being devoted to changing this. With the number of
> guitars being built daily {more than several hundred}
> there are a lot bigger fires to put out.
>
> If you have a guitar built by a Custom Shop Master
> Builder such as Dennis Galuska, he will get the neck
> pocket depth, and angle exactly where it needs to be
> without using shims. Also, you can specify that things
> like tuning key headstock holes will be in proper,
> original vintage location.
>
> have a cool 4th!
>
> -dave
>
> --- mono_tones_1 <rockverb@h...> wrote:
>
> > --- In , "Brian Neal"
> > <bgneal@g...> wrote:
> > > --- In , "Marty
> > Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
> >
> > >
> > > I think what Marty is asking is why doesn't Fender
> > cut the neck pocket
> > > at an angle so shims aren't needed. I would
> > imagine the cost is the
> > > reason? The AV series is supposed to duplicate the
> > vintage guitars,
> > > and they used shims, so the AV series does too.
> >
> >
> > 'proper design' would give the strat a neckpocket
> > parallel to top
> > surface, and JM/jag an angled one. I would guess
> > that with the
> > machinery available back in the sixties, it would be
> > very difficult to
> > cut an angled neckpocket at just the right angle.
> > With the equipment
> > available today it would be possible i guess, but i
> > don't know what
> > fender is using now.
> >
> > WR
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit
> > for archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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Jeez...shims! :-\
My '75-'76 Fender J-Bass has a 3-bolt neck with a
patented "Micro-Neck" set-screw thingy...an amazingly
stable neck. I don't need no steekin' shims!
Seriously...shims are common and nothing to worry
about. Taylor uses 'em on their guitars which
contributes to their great action. And the Taylor tone
is one of the more coveted ones in acoustic guitardom
(I've a Taylor 810 in my "arsenal", tweaked by Tim
Luranc himself)....
~ Jonathan
--- wrote:
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 05:25:54 -0000
From: "reverbtron" <>
Subject: New Jazzmaster with shims
I just noticed that my new Jazzmaster has shims under
the neck. Does
anybody know if
this a common practice of fenders. I'm not impressed
with this poor
craftmanship. Any
comments.
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