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As the owner of 3 fender amps, 2 vintage and 1 reissue ('66 Princeton
reverb, '66 Super Reverb, and a Reissue Deluxe Reverb) I've had a
chance to compare old vs new side by side. The reissue does a credible
job - to me it sounds fine for surf. Not quie as sweet sounding as the
old amps but maybe that will improve with time. After playing though a
friend's I got one just so I wouldn't have to put as much wear on the
vintage stuff. My suggestion would be to look for a used Reissue
Deluxe Reverb in top shape in the $500-600 price range. This is a very
versatile amp for other types of music as well: blues, jazz, country;
supposedly one of the most recorded amps of all time. Casey
--- In , Rob Campbell <mantid@g...> wrote:
> Wow, I'm pretty surprised at the majority of responses saying an amp
> is more important. I was aware of the importance of an amp, as a
> "someday" item... but I was really assuming getting my hands on a
> fine guitar ASAP would take priority.
>
> OK then, anyone feel like taking on the vintage vs reissue issue
> regarding reverb and amps? And, as I understand it, the outboard
> reverb unit does take tubes and power, but is not an amp per se. Can
> anyone explain how that works? I've read the manual on the fender
> website, I understand it works better between the guitar and amp
> (especially if distortion is ever desired), but I don't understand why
> the device is powered. I thought the springs were a passive
> mechanical effect.
>
> How versatile are the Deluxe and Vibrolux amps for non-surf music?
>
> My experience in the past was with Crate, Peavey, and Fender Squier
> practice amp. Actually, the Fender was my favorite, the others were
> too "metal" (in a bad way... like glam metal - I like the dirty stuff
> just fine) sounding.
>
> Do the above Fender amps have headphone jacks? Do they sound
> tolerable at low volumes?
>
> Again, I really appreciate all this advice for an old newbie!
man...it should say I am "NO" electrical
engineer...besides, Gavin explained it way better in his
post...
read Gavin's,
-dp
--- DP <> wrote:
> Rob:
>
> I am now electrical engineer, but here is my
> understanding
> of how a reverb works its magic.
>
> The signal leaves the guitar and enters a pre-amp or
> sorts
> (the tubes and capacitors). This pre-amp amplifies the
> voltage variations it recieves from the guitar pickups
> (caused by vibrating strings). These amplified voltage
> signals are fed into the reverberation chamber (the
> springs) and are modulated (changed) by the mechanical
> and
> electromagnetic properites of the reverb chamber. The
> signal then passes through a tone shaping stage (more
> tubes
> and capacitors as well as variable resistance pots) and
> then out to the REAL guitar amplifier (ie: your
> Showman)...
>
> I know its a simplified explanation...and it may even be
> a
> little out of sequence...but, that's the main idea...
>
> regarding vintage vs. reissue...I'd reccomend the
> re-issue
> stuff at first...it's way more affordable, and does a
> decent job capturing "surf tone" and "vibe"...
>
> others on the list will definately have the lowdown on
> various Fender amplifier models...I really only know the
> Fender Bassman Amp....it's always done the job for me.
>
> -dp
>
>
>
> --- Rob Campbell <> wrote:
>
> > Wow, I'm pretty surprised at the majority of responses
> > saying an amp
> > is more important. I was aware of the importance of an
> > amp, as a
> > "someday" item... but I was really assuming getting my
> > hands on a
> > fine guitar ASAP would take priority.
> >
> > OK then, anyone feel like taking on the vintage vs
> > reissue issue
> > regarding reverb and amps? And, as I understand it,
> the
> > outboard
> > reverb unit does take tubes and power, but is not an
> amp
> > per se. Can
> > anyone explain how that works? I've read the manual on
> > the fender
> > website, I understand it works better between the
> guitar
> > and amp
> > (especially if distortion is ever desired), but I don't
> > understand why
> > the device is powered. I thought the springs were a
> > passive
> > mechanical effect.
> >
> > How versatile are the Deluxe and Vibrolux amps for
> > non-surf music?
> >
> > My experience in the past was with Crate, Peavey, and
> > Fender Squier
> > practice amp. Actually, the Fender was my favorite,
> the
> > others were
> > too "metal" (in a bad way... like glam metal - I like
> the
> > dirty stuff
> > just fine) sounding.
> >
> > Do the above Fender amps have headphone jacks? Do they
> > sound
> > tolerable at low volumes?
> >
> > Again, I really appreciate all this advice for an old
> > newbie!
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for
> > archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
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The Deluxe seems to be a perennial favorite among ALL types of players. Vibrolux
has a
very distinctive tone, and and has the 2-10 versus the 1-12 speaker config.
They're both
usulally on the floor at most Guitar Centers, so I'd go and test drive each.
Bottom line is you can get a fairly decent useable guitar for dirt cheap. But
the same is not
really true for amps.
-Paul
--- In , "Casey Cash" <surfgitar@y...> wrote:
> > How versatile are the Deluxe and Vibrolux amps for non-surf music?
Sorry for reviving this topic again; just dropped in after a long time
of absence. Rob: To my opinion the amp's the salient point. I own a
fine Fender Jazzmaster guitar, but when I tried a cheap Danelectro, the
results were great, either!
O. k. Forget the Fender outboard reverb unit; in a good state it's
absolutely unaffordable, vintage as well as the reissues. And playing
surf guitar doesn't mean you have to play with such a deep splashing
reverb as e. g. the Fathoms all the time. The Fender amp's built in
reverb usually do a perfect job, especially on stage with a PA
microphone directly in front of the speakers. And if that should not be
enough, take a 2 channel Fender, pull out the reverb return plug from
the reverb tank, connect it with a cord which plugs into the NORMAL 1
socket, crank up the TREBLE, down the BASS and use VOLUME for reverb's
swell. This procedure will enhance the effect a little.
So - which Fender? I once played a Fender DeLuxe blackface; in the
studio it was perfect, and the reverb sounded overwhelming; but when I
used it on stage, that little bastard with its low wattage collapsed
much too early and produced a whole lotta overdrive. Next came a Twin
Reverb silverface; hell, it was loud - so loud I couldn't turn the
Volume more than 2, and there it sounded just slack, the tone couldn't
develop right. And: The weight! I carried it upstairs downstairs to our
practice room for 1 year; than I gave up. Now I'm absolutely happy
having purchased a Vibrolux Reverb silverface. It's doing a perfect job
for a reasonable price (EUR 500,-); not a lightweight, but the best
compromise between practice amp and a fattie. Surf, Rockabilly,
Country, Blues, Rock, ... Not that earthy like a Blues DeLuxe Tweed,
but very versatile.
Kindest regards, Bernie
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- In , Rob Campbell <mantid@g...> wrote:
> Here's a little survey:
> Would you rather have an excellent guitar and cheap amp, or vice
versa?
> I can't afford both at once, so I was planning to get a nice guitar
> and a cheap amp (like what used to be called a squier 15, I think they
> have a new name now). It occured to me, though, that it could also be
> fun to get a really nice amp and run a cheap used guitar through it
> while saving for a nice guitar. So, as pertains to learning surf
> guitar, which would you rather have?
> I think I already know the answer to this... get the good guitar and
> just make do with a cheap amp and maybe reverb/tremelo pedal for a
> while; but I thought I would throw it out there.
> Also: thoughts on the Fender reissue reverb unit? is it
> substantially "better" than the [spring] reverb built into many amps?
Play surf sans reverb tank? Blasphemy!!
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Bernhard Lipinski
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: guitar or amp?
... playing surf guitar doesn't mean you have to play with such a deep
splashing
reverb...
Kindest regards, Bernie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now lemme see,
There are two major bands whose names come to mind when discussing surf without
using Reverb (since 1961 when Leo Fender introduced the Fender Reverb Unit):
1) The Ventures, whose "Surfin' " album released in early'63 was minus any
reverb, and who also covered "Wipe Out" on their "Let's Go!" album, also minus
any reverb;
2) The Bel Airs, but mainly because Paul Johnson chose to make a big stink out
of Eddie Bertrand's wish to emulate other surf bands, and use heavy Reverb.
Now, The Ventures, (Don Wilson in particular) keep denying that they're a surf
band, holding themselves out more as a general rock Instrumental Band, so their
use or non-use of reverb would hardly be considered definitive by a true surf
music aficionado.
In the case of The Bel Airs, now, 42 years later, Paul Johnson himself uses
reverb heavily and would be the first to admit that Bertrand was correct in
foreseeing that Reverb would become a defining element of the true sound of surf
music.
Now, I wonder who was Bernie's source of such a pearl of wisdom that you don't
need splashy reverb to play surf music, (was it a young dude from Long Island
who says that if he chooses to label his jazz songs as "surf" then it magically
is surf?)
Bruce D
Marty Tippens <> wrote:
Play surf sans reverb tank? Blasphemy!!
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Bernhard Lipinski
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: guitar or amp?
... playing surf guitar doesn't mean you have to play with such a deep
splashing
reverb...
Kindest regards, Bernie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce is my hero for that statement.
And on the subject. I just could't see playing surf without a reverb
unit. Amp reverb just doesn't sound the same.
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> Now, I wonder who was Bernie's source of such a pearl of wisdom that
you don't need splashy reverb to play surf music, (was it a young dude
from Long Island who says that if he chooses to label his jazz songs
as "surf" then it magically is surf?)
O.K. Now that I see your original posting, I can see where you're coming from -
You think the Fender Reverb units are unaffordable! Why don't you let the rest
of us surf guitarists decide on factual information what's affordable and what
is not?
I just purchased two Reverb Units on e-Bay. The first, a mint-condition '63
Reissue with NOS 6K6 power tube and NOS 12AT7 and 12AX7A, sounds as good as my
original vintage '63, and cost $330 US including shipping. Is THAT
unaffordable? The second, an original '64 for a total of $714 US, including
shipping. For an original properly working '64 Fender Reverb Unit, are you
saying $700 is unaffordable, or simply unreasonable?
And, I beg to differ, as the owner of several dozen Fender Tube amps of varying
vintages, no matter how you try to rig the built-in reverb, it simply CANNOT
match the sound and tone of the outboard Reverb Unit, as our audiences
continually tell us. There is no substitute for a real 3-knob Fender Reverb
Unit, and if you don't use one, then the sound you'll make (at least regarding
REAL surf music) is at best a weak compromise brought on by a super tight gear
budget. (I lived under that restrction for years myself, so I do understand).
However, before I started messing with the wiring and circuitry on a valuable
vintage Fender amp, I'd weigh the reduction in the modified amp's value, versus
the cost of a Reverb Unit, and of course, I think it goes without saying that if
you buy a Fender Reverb unit from $300-$700 in today's money, you'll be able to
sell it 5-10 years from now for at least what you paid to buy it now.
Bruce D
Bernhard Lipinski <> wrote:
O. k. Forget the Fender outboard reverb unit; in a good state it's absolutely
unaffordable, vintage as well as the reissues. And playing surf guitar doesn't
mean you have to play with such a deep splashing reverb as e. g. the Fathoms all
the time.
Kindest regards, Bernie
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I also would go for the reverb.in this area it's what sets us
apart.The Fender box goes a long way twards filling space.remember we
are a three peice.Besides I love having the other bands coming up to
us after we play and saying "what the hey was that". Miller
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...> wrote:
> O.K. Now that I see your original posting, I can see where you're
coming from - You think the Fender Reverb units are unaffordable! Why
don't you let the rest of us surf guitarists decide on factual
information what's affordable and what is not?
>
> I just purchased two Reverb Units on e-Bay. The first, a
mint-condition '63 Reissue with NOS 6K6 power tube and NOS 12AT7 and
12AX7A, sounds as good as my original vintage '63, and cost $330 US
including shipping. Is THAT unaffordable? The second, an original
'64 for a total of $714 US, including shipping. For an original
properly working '64 Fender Reverb Unit, are you saying $700 is
unaffordable, or simply unreasonable?
>
> And, I beg to differ, as the owner of several dozen Fender Tube amps
of varying vintages, no matter how you try to rig the built-in reverb,
it simply CANNOT match the sound and tone of the outboard Reverb Unit,
as our audiences continually tell us. There is no substitute for a
real 3-knob Fender Reverb Unit, and if you don't use one, then the
sound you'll make (at least regarding REAL surf music) is at best a
weak compromise brought on by a super tight gear budget. (I lived
under that restrction for years myself, so I do understand). However,
before I started messing with the wiring and circuitry on a valuable
vintage Fender amp, I'd weigh the reduction in the modified amp's
value, versus the cost of a Reverb Unit, and of course, I think it
goes without saying that if you buy a Fender Reverb unit from
$300-$700 in today's money, you'll be able to sell it 5-10 years from
now for at least what you paid to buy it now.
>
> Bruce D
>
>
> Bernhard Lipinski <MarKeyWest@a...> wrote:
>
> O. k. Forget the Fender outboard reverb unit; in a good state it's
absolutely unaffordable, vintage as well as the reissues. And playing
surf guitar doesn't mean you have to play with such a deep splashing
reverb as e. g. the Fathoms all the time.
>
> Kindest regards, Bernie
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd just like to plug my amp as an option, I play a black face "pro
reverb" - often referred to as a Fender twin's little brother. At 40
watts it's got plenty of power, you get a fair amount of clean signal
before it breaks up at around 5, it's quite loud in fact. It has 2
channels just like the twin, with vibrato and reverb on the 2nd channel
and has 2 12" speakers too. Best of all, they aren't quite as desirable
so the prices are somewhat reasonable. I'm not sure how the silver
face's compare, though I imagine they're quite adequate. I do know that
later pro reverbs from the seventies on up are quite different amps so
beware.
My 2 cents...
Danny
On Jul 19, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Bernhard Lipinski wrote:
> .
> So - which Fender? I once played a Fender DeLuxe blackface; in the
> studio it was perfect, and the reverb sounded overwhelming; but when I
> used it on stage, that little bastard with its low wattage collapsed
> much too early and produced a whole lotta overdrive. Next came a Twin
> Reverb silverface; hell, it was loud - so loud I couldn't turn the
> Volume more than 2, and there it sounded just slack, the tone couldn't
> develop right. And: The weight! I carried it upstairs downstairs to
> our
> practice room for 1 year; than I gave up. Now I'm absolutely happy
> having purchased a Vibrolux Reverb silverface. It's doing a perfect
> job
> for a reasonable price (EUR 500,-); not a lightweight, but the best
> compromise between practice amp and a fattie. Surf, Rockabilly,
> Country, Blues, Rock, ... Not that earthy like a Blues DeLuxe Tweed,
> but very versatile.
> Kindest regards, Bernie
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Now, hold on, if you want a real trad surf sound, there is no getting
around a tank, but i've seen many surf bands that used the onboard
that had adquate sound for the surfy music they played. it's a matter
of choice really. but as the saying goes, WANT SPLASH? GET TANK! I'll
defintly agree to that.
budget is individual, and whether it is unafordable depends on ones
budget - I don't think it is particular nice to state you
own 'several dozen' fender amps and then claim you can decide what is
affordable for someone else. for some of us, $300 is a SHITLOAD of
money. and $700 for a vintage tank sounds very reasonable to me,
they've gon for much more. Yet I cannot afford one.
And yes, if I'd have $800 to spend, i'd get $150 guitar, a $350 amp,
and wait for a tank to score on ebay for $300 (it does happen).rather
then better guitar and/or amp. the tank is that important.
but If I had $400 to spend on an entire rig, a tank just wouldn't be
an option, because it would be unaffordable.
WR,
advocating that the financially challenged should be encouraged to
find a usuable surfy sound they can afford, rather then being told
that if you don't shit cash, you can't play surf.
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> O.K. Now that I see your original posting, I can see where you're
coming from - You think the Fender Reverb units are unaffordable!
Why don't you let the rest of us surf guitarists decide on factual
information what's affordable and what is not?
>
> I just purchased two Reverb Units on e-Bay. The first, a mint-
condition '63 Reissue with NOS 6K6 power tube and NOS 12AT7 and
12AX7A, sounds as good as my original vintage '63, and cost $330 US
including shipping. Is THAT unaffordable? The second, an
original '64 for a total of $714 US, including shipping. For an
original properly working '64 Fender Reverb Unit, are you saying $700
is unaffordable, or simply unreasonable?
>
> And, I beg to differ, as the owner of several dozen Fender Tube
amps of varying vintages, no matter how you try to rig the built-in
reverb, it simply CANNOT match the sound and tone of the outboard
Reverb Unit, as our audiences continually tell us. There is no
substitute for a real 3-knob Fender Reverb Unit, and if you don't use
one, then the sound you'll make (at least regarding REAL surf music)
is at best a weak compromise brought on by a super tight gear
budget. (I lived under that restrction for years myself, so I do
understand). However, before I started messing with the wiring and
circuitry on a valuable vintage Fender amp, I'd weigh the reduction
in the modified amp's value, versus the cost of a Reverb Unit, and of
course, I think it goes without saying that if you buy a Fender
Reverb unit from $300-$700 in today's money, you'll be able to sell
it 5-10 years from now for at least what you paid to buy it now.
>
> Bruce D
>
>
> Bernhard Lipinski <MarKeyWest@a...> wrote:
>
> O. k. Forget the Fender outboard reverb unit; in a good state it's
absolutely unaffordable, vintage as well as the reissues. And playing
surf guitar doesn't mean you have to play with such a deep splashing
reverb as e. g. the Fathoms all the time.
>
> Kindest regards, Bernie
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
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Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I love when soundmen try to stick a mic in front of it. :-)
-Paul
--- In , "loscobrassurf" <loscobrassurf@y...>
wrote:
> I also would go for the reverb.in this area it's what sets us
> apart.The Fender box goes a long way twards filling space.remember we
> are a three peice.Besides I love having the other bands coming up to
> us after we play and saying "what the hey was that". Miller
> i've seen many surf bands that used the onboard
> that had adquate sound for the surfy music they played. it's a
>matter
> of choice really. but as the saying goes, WANT SPLASH? GET TANK!
>
>And playing
> surf guitar doesn't mean you have to play with such a deep
splashing
> reverb as e. g. the Fathoms all the time.
> >
> > Kindest regards, Bernie
Actually, I believe Mike & Oceana (of The 9th Wave) recently
determined that the Fathoms create their reverb sounds with an
effects pedal rather than a spring tank.
That's what Frankie B. himself apprently told 'em...
--GN
mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
"I don't think it is particular nice to state you
own 'several dozen' fender amps and then claim you can decide what is affordable
for someone else. for some of us, $300 is a SHITLOAD of money. and $700 for a
vintage tank sounds very reasonable to me, they've gon for much more. Yet I
cannot afford one.
This sounds rather confrontational, since in my original posting, I said the
following:
"Why don't you let the rest of us surf guitarists decide on factual information
what's affordable and what is not?"
AND
" There is no substitute for a real 3-knob Fender Reverb Unit, and if you don't
use one, then the sound you'll make (at least regarding REAL surf music) is at
best a weak compromise brought on by a super tight gear budget. (I lived under
that restrction for years myself, so I do understand)."
Then you go on to say:
"advocating that the financially challenged should be encouraged to find a
usuable surfy sound they can afford, rather then being told that if you don't
shit cash, you can't play surf."
When all I said was:
"However, before I started messing with the wiring and
circuitry on a valuable vintage Fender amp, I'd weigh the reduction in the
modified amp's value, versus the cost of a Reverb Unit . . ."
Bernie, I don't know how you would take what I posted as an attack on you on any
level. I well remember being so challenged financially that the best reverb I
could afford, was a digital ART-1 personal Reverb Unit that I sat on top of my
$250.00 Music Man HD130, and the best guitar I could afford was a $125 Peavey
Predator Strat Copy. And, this was my rig at our first really important gig,
playing at the Glendale Cruise Night on July 27, 1999. Still, even then, in
poverty city, I realized the need for a separate reverb unit, even a digital
one. (It cost me $85.00 on sale at West L.A. Music BTW)
There was a very seasoned Surf Guitarist in the audience of several hundred
people milling in front of the stage. This guy was a real gear "purist", and I
remember him coming up to the stage to compliment me on how authentic my lead
guitar sound was, even though I was using all incorrect gear!
I wasn't intending in any fashion, to put you down, having lived the same
reality myself! (which I thought I'd made clear in my posting!)
The harsh reality of a restricted budget is hard to live with, but in the long
run, I hope you're able to do what I did, which is to squirrel a few bucks away
each week, to save for future equipment upgrades. BTW, check my other postings
for very inexpensive but way cool, and excellent playing and sounding surf
guitars from Wesley and Jay Turser. At about $250-$260 shipped, these work
beautifully for surf music, right out of the box!
Best Regards,
Bruce D
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mike Palm, aka Mickey Deora
said he's had a sound man do that also.
too funny,
Jeff(btd)
--- In , "obmosquito" <obmosquito@c...>
wrote:
> I love when soundmen try to stick a mic in front of it. :-)
> -Paul
>
> --- In , "loscobrassurf"
<loscobrassurf@y...> wrote:
> > I also would go for the reverb.in this area it's what sets us
> > apart.The Fender box goes a long way twards filling space.remember
we
> > are a three peice.Besides I love having the other bands coming up to
> > us after we play and saying "what the hey was that". Miller
Bruce,
that was my post, not bernie's (Wannes, WR, rockverb, whatever)
2b sure: yes I DO value your opinion on this list, the guitarsound of
longboard ranch shows you know your stuff. And yes, I have seen you
avdocating cheap guitars.
I was only pointing out that a) affordability is a relative fact, not
an absolute one. affordability of tank is hence not "a fact other
surf guitarists can decide on", that was just a false statement.
(b) combining that with mentioning all the fancy gear you have, your
line of argument struck me as, well 'not nice'.
If i misread you intentions, I am very sorry, maybe it was peronal
too, since I cannot afford '2 dozens of Fender amps and a wall full
of "shitty ;-)"fender guitars. Hell, I can't afford the garage to
store it in. So I'm very much about working with budgetary
limitations. Again, sorry if i misintepreted your intentions.
As far as it goes to the DESIRABLITY of a tank, I am completly in
your camp, a tank the most essential part. As a matter of fact, I
even think tube reverb will spice up any solid state amp enough to
choose tank+ ss amp over 'just tube amp'.
btw, you remarks about the compliments you got on your incorrect gear
show seems inconsistent with your quest for purity, which makes me
wonder, was that gig with PA? I ve heard PDM live with the digiverb
through a Pa, and it sounded pretty darn good. but the digiverb
straight through the amp is a lot less, still very usuable, certainly
for at home or rehearsal, but defintly not a tank.
best
WR
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
>
>
> mono_tones_1 <rockverb@h...> wrote:
> "I don't think it is particular nice to state you
> own 'several dozen' fender amps and then claim you can decide what
is affordable for someone else. for some of us, $300 is a SHITLOAD of
money. and $700 for a vintage tank sounds very reasonable to me,
they've gon for much more. Yet I cannot afford one.
>
> This sounds rather confrontational, since in my original posting, I
said the following:
>
> "Why don't you let the rest of us surf guitarists decide on factual
information what's affordable and what is not?"
>
> AND
>
> " There is no substitute for a real 3-knob Fender Reverb Unit, and
if you don't use one, then the sound you'll make (at least regarding
REAL surf music) is at best a weak compromise brought on by a super
tight gear budget. (I lived under that restrction for years myself,
so I do understand)."
>
> Then you go on to say:
>
> "advocating that the financially challenged should be encouraged to
find a usuable surfy sound they can afford, rather then being told
that if you don't shit cash, you can't play surf."
>
> When all I said was:
>
> "However, before I started messing with the wiring and
> circuitry on a valuable vintage Fender amp, I'd weigh the reduction
in the modified amp's value, versus the cost of a Reverb Unit . . ."
>
> Bernie, I don't know how you would take what I posted as an attack
on you on any level. I well remember being so challenged financially
that the best reverb I could afford, was a digital ART-1 personal
Reverb Unit that I sat on top of my $250.00 Music Man HD130, and the
best guitar I could afford was a $125 Peavey Predator Strat Copy.
And, this was my rig at our first really important gig, playing at
the Glendale Cruise Night on July 27, 1999. Still, even then, in
poverty city, I realized the need for a separate reverb unit, even a
digital one. (It cost me $85.00 on sale at West L.A. Music BTW)
>
> There was a very seasoned Surf Guitarist in the audience of several
hundred people milling in front of the stage. This guy was a real
gear "purist", and I remember him coming up to the stage to
compliment me on how authentic my lead guitar sound was, even though
I was using all incorrect gear!
>
> I wasn't intending in any fashion, to put you down, having lived
the same reality myself! (which I thought I'd made clear in my
posting!)
>
> The harsh reality of a restricted budget is hard to live with, but
in the long run, I hope you're able to do what I did, which is to
squirrel a few bucks away each week, to save for future equipment
upgrades. BTW, check my other postings for very inexpensive but way
cool, and excellent playing and sounding surf guitars from Wesley and
Jay Turser. At about $250-$260 shipped, these work beautifully for
surf music, right out of the box!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bruce D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was simply letting you know I've been there, and not so long ago, and had to
do the best with what I could afford at the time. And I don't think it was I
who described a wall of Fenders, shitty or otherwise, that was that John B. and
a snide, incendiary, posting in which he made up the image of a wall of shitty
Fenders, out of whole cloth!
Bruce D
mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
Bruce,
that was my post, not bernie's (Wannes, WR, rockverb, whatever)
2b sure: yes I DO value your opinion on this list, the guitarsound of
longboard ranch shows you know your stuff. And yes, I have seen you
avdocating cheap guitars.
I was only pointing out that a) affordability is a relative fact, not
an absolute one. affordability of tank is hence not "a fact other
surf guitarists can decide on", that was just a false statement.
(b) combining that with mentioning all the fancy gear you have, your
line of argument struck me as, well 'not nice'.
If i misread you intentions, I am very sorry, maybe it was peronal
too, since I cannot afford '2 dozens of Fender amps and a wall full
of "shitty ;-)"fender guitars. Hell, I can't afford the garage to
store it in. So I'm very much about working with budgetary
limitations. Again, sorry if i misintepreted your intentions.
As far as it goes to the DESIRABLITY of a tank, I am completly in
your camp, a tank the most essential part. As a matter of fact, I
even think tube reverb will spice up any solid state amp enough to
choose tank+ ss amp over 'just tube amp'.
btw, you remarks about the compliments you got on your incorrect gear
show seems inconsistent with your quest for purity, which makes me
wonder, was that gig with PA? I ve heard PDM live with the digiverb
through a Pa, and it sounded pretty darn good. but the digiverb
straight through the amp is a lot less, still very usuable, certainly
for at home or rehearsal, but defintly not a tank.
best
WR
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
>
>
> mono_tones_1 <rockverb@h...> wrote:
> "I don't think it is particular nice to state you
> own 'several dozen' fender amps and then claim you can decide what
is affordable for someone else. for some of us, $300 is a SHITLOAD of
money. and $700 for a vintage tank sounds very reasonable to me,
they've gon for much more. Yet I cannot afford one.
>
> This sounds rather confrontational, since in my original posting, I
said the following:
>
> "Why don't you let the rest of us surf guitarists decide on factual
information what's affordable and what is not?"
>
> AND
>
> " There is no substitute for a real 3-knob Fender Reverb Unit, and
if you don't use one, then the sound you'll make (at least regarding
REAL surf music) is at best a weak compromise brought on by a super
tight gear budget. (I lived under that restrction for years myself,
so I do understand)."
>
> Then you go on to say:
>
> "advocating that the financially challenged should be encouraged to
find a usuable surfy sound they can afford, rather then being told
that if you don't shit cash, you can't play surf."
>
> When all I said was:
>
> "However, before I started messing with the wiring and
> circuitry on a valuable vintage Fender amp, I'd weigh the reduction
in the modified amp's value, versus the cost of a Reverb Unit . . ."
>
> Bernie, I don't know how you would take what I posted as an attack
on you on any level. I well remember being so challenged financially
that the best reverb I could afford, was a digital ART-1 personal
Reverb Unit that I sat on top of my $250.00 Music Man HD130, and the
best guitar I could afford was a $125 Peavey Predator Strat Copy.
And, this was my rig at our first really important gig, playing at
the Glendale Cruise Night on July 27, 1999. Still, even then, in
poverty city, I realized the need for a separate reverb unit, even a
digital one. (It cost me $85.00 on sale at West L.A. Music BTW)
>
> There was a very seasoned Surf Guitarist in the audience of several
hundred people milling in front of the stage. This guy was a real
gear "purist", and I remember him coming up to the stage to
compliment me on how authentic my lead guitar sound was, even though
I was using all incorrect gear!
>
> I wasn't intending in any fashion, to put you down, having lived
the same reality myself! (which I thought I'd made clear in my
posting!)
>
> The harsh reality of a restricted budget is hard to live with, but
in the long run, I hope you're able to do what I did, which is to
squirrel a few bucks away each week, to save for future equipment
upgrades. BTW, check my other postings for very inexpensive but way
cool, and excellent playing and sounding surf guitars from Wesley and
Jay Turser. At about $250-$260 shipped, these work beautifully for
surf music, right out of the box!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bruce D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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