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I love internet lists. They rule. Where else can you start a
conversation about one thing, have one guy ACTUALLY respond to it
while at least three and probably more like five or six guys go off
on tangents, telling you that you don't know what you're talking
about?? Brilliant! Oh, and then of course there's the
obligatory, "let's define what we're really talking about" post,
too! :)
Look, I love the solo from Rock Around The Clock. Who doesn't?
It's awesome. But it has nothing to do with surf music. And I
regret that I worded my original post in a way that would invite
endless discussion and speculation on what is shred, who started it,
where does jazz end and rock begin, etc. I guess I really don't
give a shit. What I DO give a shit about is DDs amazing solo on
this obscure track that I don't think many people know about. It's
a bit sad that people would rather talk about Danny Cedrone than
Dick Dale on a surf list though... Mention Cedrone and three guys
pipe up. Mention Dick, and one guy pipes up? Does that strike
anyone else as weird? Is there no desire among the people on this
list to actually learn about the lost surf diamonds? One thing that
I find really astonishing is how little discussion there actually is
about the SIXTIES SURF MUSIC - you know, the stuff that started it
all? Is it that people just don't know enough to even engage in a
discussion? Or that they just don't care? The more I learn about
that short period of three or four years, the more blown away I am
by the creativity and originality that emerged from it. And how
astonishingly quickly it evolved from Let's Go Trippin' and Mr. Moto
to Mar Gaya and Ventures in Space. And though I greatly applaud
people approaching surf music with their own interpretation, is it
possible that most people really know very little about the guys
that started all this? Or is it just that they're bored talking
about it? I'm mystified.
Ivan
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> Let's just face the undeniable fact that Cedrone's solo on Rock
Around The Clock, (Jazz-Based or not) is one of the most defining
moments in the evolution of early Rock & Roll. And where exactly
does one draw the line? Walk Don't Run was composed and recorded by
Johnny Smith, (later covered by Chet Atkins) as a finger-style jazz
composition, and yet it became one of Rock & Roll's most memorable
hits, as performed by the original FOUR Ventures.
>
> Bruce D
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're saying, to
my
> > ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo than a rock
solo,
> > though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat sounds a lot
more
> > like an eighties metal solo.
> >
> > Ivan
>
> Hmmm, Nitro Fuel! not HEAT! lol. I agree with Ivan I think the
Rock
> Around the clock solo is more jazz based. But I don't really
think
> Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I know little
> about that.
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
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Dick Dale has been discussed and threaded to an incredible degree. A change of
subject is refreshing at times!
With all due respect,
Bruce D
:
I love internet lists. They rule. Where else can you start a
conversation about one thing, have one guy ACTUALLY respond to it
while at least three and probably more like five or six guys go off
on tangents, telling you that you don't know what you're talking
about?? Brilliant! Oh, and then of course there's the
obligatory, "let's define what we're really talking about" post,
too! :)
Look, I love the solo from Rock Around The Clock. Who doesn't?
It's awesome. But it has nothing to do with surf music. And I
regret that I worded my original post in a way that would invite
endless discussion and speculation on what is shred, who started it,
where does jazz end and rock begin, etc. I guess I really don't
give a shit. What I DO give a shit about is DDs amazing solo on
this obscure track that I don't think many people know about. It's
a bit sad that people would rather talk about Danny Cedrone than
Dick Dale on a surf list though... Mention Cedrone and three guys
pipe up. Mention Dick, and one guy pipes up? Does that strike
anyone else as weird? Is there no desire among the people on this
list to actually learn about the lost surf diamonds? One thing that
I find really astonishing is how little discussion there actually is
about the SIXTIES SURF MUSIC - you know, the stuff that started it
all? Is it that people just don't know enough to even engage in a
discussion? Or that they just don't care? The more I learn about
that short period of three or four years, the more blown away I am
by the creativity and originality that emerged from it. And how
astonishingly quickly it evolved from Let's Go Trippin' and Mr. Moto
to Mar Gaya and Ventures in Space. And though I greatly applaud
people approaching surf music with their own interpretation, is it
possible that most people really know very little about the guys
that started all this? Or is it just that they're bored talking
about it? I'm mystified.
Ivan
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> Let's just face the undeniable fact that Cedrone's solo on Rock
Around The Clock, (Jazz-Based or not) is one of the most defining
moments in the evolution of early Rock & Roll. And where exactly
does one draw the line? Walk Don't Run was composed and recorded by
Johnny Smith, (later covered by Chet Atkins) as a finger-style jazz
composition, and yet it became one of Rock & Roll's most memorable
hits, as performed by the original FOUR Ventures.
>
> Bruce D
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're saying, to
my
> > ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo than a rock
solo,
> > though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat sounds a lot
more
> > like an eighties metal solo.
> >
> > Ivan
>
> Hmmm, Nitro Fuel! not HEAT! lol. I agree with Ivan I think the
Rock
> Around the clock solo is more jazz based. But I don't really
think
> Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I know little
> about that.
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Service.
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>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bruce, with all due respect, when we're just finding out he used
roundwound strings in the sixties, and songs like Nitro Fuel or
Ghost Riders have NEVER (as far I know) been mentioned on the list,
then there's stil plenty to talk about. Much better than discussing
Eric Johnson (who I actually saw play live in July of '90, and was
there hours before the show, watching him prepare and hang out with
Paul Reed Smith who gave him a guitar as a present - the show was in
Washington, DC) on a surf list.
The more I get into Dick's sixties music, the more I enjoy it and
the more respect I have for him as a guitarist. Maybe five years
ago I would have responded in the same way, but it's shocking to me
how many surf fans know very little of his music outside the Rhino
best-of. He had six albums in the sixties, you know... How many
times has his last studio album from the sixties, Summer Surf, come
up? I think this is an amazing album, with two tracks that are well-
known and deservedly so (Banzaii Washout and Tidal Wave) but with so
many more that are completely unknown (very much undeservedly so),
like The Star (of David), Spanish Kiss, Surfin' Rebel, and Never on
Sunday. These albums of his are selling for $80 on eBay, too!
Anyway, I don't know why you hang out on this list, but I personally
want to learn more about surf music, and there is still a lot more
unknown about Dick. And I know for a fact that guys that know
something about topics like these and want to know more, and want to
just discuss, have dropped off the list.
But hell, if you don't want to talk about Dick, no problem. How
about Jim Messina & the Jesters? Or the Lively Ones? The Surfaris
don't pop up very often, but I think "Scattershield" is an intense
tune! How about the Crossfires? Al Nichol really gave Dick 'a run
for life' - listen to him on "Out of Control" - holy shit!! When
was the last time a track by the Chantays (NOT Pipeline) that came
up in discussion? I've always been fond of "Beyond", "Space Probe"
and their version of "Wayward Nile" never fails to give me the
shivers.
I'll be very happy to talk about any of these when we get bored of
Dick. I enjoy a lot of modern surf, as should be very clear, but
c'mon, the sixties surf was so damn GOOD - don't you think so???
Ivan
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> Dick Dale has been discussed and threaded to an incredible
degree. A change of subject is refreshing at times!
>
> With all due respect,
>
> Bruce D
You're readin' us quite riot act there, Ivan! It definitely is a challenge to
keep a topic on topic. I wouldn't worry too much about this becoming a Danny
Cedrone list, Dick Dale is still brought up on Surfguitar101 about as much as
anyone and deservedly so. We may be a bunch of dolts...oops, I'll speak for
myself...but it's not for missing the real intention of your initial post. There
was a lot of stuff in your initial post. And some of us really do like old surf
even if we're not as fascinated with a given Dick Dale guitar part that one
member is currently researching.
In those CPR classes they tell ya that if you're injured, you can look at the
crowd and say, "someone call a doctor" but you'll get a more immediate response
if you point to someone and say, "you, call a doctor". The same philosophy would
probably work on this list. Instead of making it an open question for easy
misinterpretation, make it directed, i.e. "Yo, Marty, what do you think of Paul
Johnson's melody work on Vaminous, was it forward thinking genius or the luck of
young kid" to which I will respond, "It was ok, but he was no Danny Cedrone!"
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:12 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
I love internet lists. They rule. Where else can you start a
conversation about one thing, have one guy ACTUALLY respond to it
while at least three and probably more like five or six guys go off
on tangents, telling you that you don't know what you're talking
about?? Brilliant! Oh, and then of course there's the
obligatory, "let's define what we're really talking about" post,
too! :)
Look, I love the solo from Rock Around The Clock. Who doesn't?
It's awesome. But it has nothing to do with surf music. And I
regret that I worded my original post in a way that would invite
endless discussion and speculation on what is shred, who started it,
where does jazz end and rock begin, etc. I guess I really don't
give a shit. What I DO give a shit about is DDs amazing solo on
this obscure track that I don't think many people know about. It's
a bit sad that people would rather talk about Danny Cedrone than
Dick Dale on a surf list though... Mention Cedrone and three guys
pipe up. Mention Dick, and one guy pipes up? Does that strike
anyone else as weird? Is there no desire among the people on this
list to actually learn about the lost surf diamonds? One thing that
I find really astonishing is how little discussion there actually is
about the SIXTIES SURF MUSIC - you know, the stuff that started it
all? Is it that people just don't know enough to even engage in a
discussion? Or that they just don't care? The more I learn about
that short period of three or four years, the more blown away I am
by the creativity and originality that emerged from it. And how
astonishingly quickly it evolved from Let's Go Trippin' and Mr. Moto
to Mar Gaya and Ventures in Space. And though I greatly applaud
people approaching surf music with their own interpretation, is it
possible that most people really know very little about the guys
that started all this? Or is it just that they're bored talking
about it? I'm mystified.
Ivan
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> Let's just face the undeniable fact that Cedrone's solo on Rock
Around The Clock, (Jazz-Based or not) is one of the most defining
moments in the evolution of early Rock & Roll. And where exactly
does one draw the line? Walk Don't Run was composed and recorded by
Johnny Smith, (later covered by Chet Atkins) as a finger-style jazz
composition, and yet it became one of Rock & Roll's most memorable
hits, as performed by the original FOUR Ventures.
>
> Bruce D
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're saying, to
my
> > ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo than a rock
solo,
> > though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat sounds a lot
more
> > like an eighties metal solo.
> >
> > Ivan
>
> Hmmm, Nitro Fuel! not HEAT! lol. I agree with Ivan I think the
Rock
> Around the clock solo is more jazz based. But I don't really
think
> Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I know little
> about that.
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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__________ NOD32 1.1151 (20050622) Information __________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now wait a minute, Ivan,
I remember a certain lead guitarist of the Space Cossacks who was much less
enamered with Dick Dale being more distracted by Dick's ego, and when talk of
Dick came up on the lists, he made less than complimentary remarks about the
guy. So now there's a drought in Dick talk and you're not happy about it! Well
ultimately I'm refreshed that you are now championing the King of the Surf
Guitar.
I do get that your point is really about the lack of surf talk in general on
this list and not so much about Dick Dale but keeping on DD, I'm guessin' Rhino,
Sundazed or EMI could have released the Capitol albums. It's a mystery to me why
they haven't. Of course that partially 'splains why few in the group can talk
about the albums and their deep tracks.
I was gonna say that lists devoted to certain artists as opposed to this list
devoted to the whole genre, feature talk that goes much deeper into obscure
album tracks. It does on The Ventures list that I host and The Shadows list but
then I think about the Chet list that was goin' great guns and has sorta died
out. Some lists seem to have a shelf life.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:19 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
Bruce, with all due respect, when we're just finding out he used
roundwound strings in the sixties, and songs like Nitro Fuel or
Ghost Riders have NEVER (as far I know) been mentioned on the list,
then there's stil plenty to talk about. Much better than discussing
Eric Johnson (who I actually saw play live in July of '90, and was
there hours before the show, watching him prepare and hang out with
Paul Reed Smith who gave him a guitar as a present - the show was in
Washington, DC) on a surf list.
The more I get into Dick's sixties music, the more I enjoy it and
the more respect I have for him as a guitarist. Maybe five years
ago I would have responded in the same way, but it's shocking to me
how many surf fans know very little of his music outside the Rhino
best-of. He had six albums in the sixties, you know... How many
times has his last studio album from the sixties, Summer Surf, come
up? I think this is an amazing album, with two tracks that are well-
known and deservedly so (Banzaii Washout and Tidal Wave) but with so
many more that are completely unknown (very much undeservedly so),
like The Star (of David), Spanish Kiss, Surfin' Rebel, and Never on
Sunday. These albums of his are selling for $80 on eBay, too!
Anyway, I don't know why you hang out on this list, but I personally
want to learn more about surf music, and there is still a lot more
unknown about Dick. And I know for a fact that guys that know
something about topics like these and want to know more, and want to
just discuss, have dropped off the list.
But hell, if you don't want to talk about Dick, no problem. How
about Jim Messina & the Jesters? Or the Lively Ones? The Surfaris
don't pop up very often, but I think "Scattershield" is an intense
tune! How about the Crossfires? Al Nichol really gave Dick 'a run
for life' - listen to him on "Out of Control" - holy shit!! When
was the last time a track by the Chantays (NOT Pipeline) that came
up in discussion? I've always been fond of "Beyond", "Space Probe"
and their version of "Wayward Nile" never fails to give me the
shivers.
I'll be very happy to talk about any of these when we get bored of
Dick. I enjoy a lot of modern surf, as should be very clear, but
c'mon, the sixties surf was so damn GOOD - don't you think so???
Ivan
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> Dick Dale has been discussed and threaded to an incredible
degree. A change of subject is refreshing at times!
>
> With all due respect,
>
> Bruce D
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
__________ NOD32 1.1151 (20050622) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was going to post a witty little reply that said "Mark?" but I just
noticed that your post says certain "lead guitarist" of the Space
Cossacks.
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> Now wait a minute, Ivan,
>
> I remember a certain lead guitarist of the Space Cossacks who was
much less enamered with Dick Dale being more distracted by Dick's ego,
and when talk of Dick came up on the lists, he made less than
complimentary remarks about the guy. So now there's a drought in Dick
talk and you're not happy about it! Well ultimately I'm refreshed
that you are now championing the King of the Surf Guitar.
>
> I do get that your point is really about the lack of surf talk in
general on this list and not so much about Dick Dale but keeping on
DD, I'm guessin' Rhino, Sundazed or EMI could have released the
Capitol albums. It's a mystery to me why they haven't. Of course that
partially 'splains why few in the group can talk about the albums and
their deep tracks.
>
> I was gonna say that lists devoted to certain artists as opposed to
this list devoted to the whole genre, feature talk that goes much
deeper into obscure album tracks. It does on The Ventures list that I
host and The Shadows list but then I think about the Chet list that
was goin' great guns and has sorta died out. Some lists seem to have a
shelf life.
>
> -Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ipongrac
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:19 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
>
>
> Bruce, with all due respect, when we're just finding out he used
> roundwound strings in the sixties, and songs like Nitro Fuel or
> Ghost Riders have NEVER (as far I know) been mentioned on the list,
> then there's stil plenty to talk about. Much better than discussing
> Eric Johnson (who I actually saw play live in July of '90, and was
> there hours before the show, watching him prepare and hang out with
> Paul Reed Smith who gave him a guitar as a present - the show was in
> Washington, DC) on a surf list.
>
> The more I get into Dick's sixties music, the more I enjoy it and
> the more respect I have for him as a guitarist. Maybe five years
> ago I would have responded in the same way, but it's shocking to me
> how many surf fans know very little of his music outside the Rhino
> best-of. He had six albums in the sixties, you know... How many
> times has his last studio album from the sixties, Summer Surf, come
> up? I think this is an amazing album, with two tracks that are well-
> known and deservedly so (Banzaii Washout and Tidal Wave) but with so
> many more that are completely unknown (very much undeservedly so),
> like The Star (of David), Spanish Kiss, Surfin' Rebel, and Never on
> Sunday. These albums of his are selling for $80 on eBay, too!
> Anyway, I don't know why you hang out on this list, but I personally
> want to learn more about surf music, and there is still a lot more
> unknown about Dick. And I know for a fact that guys that know
> something about topics like these and want to know more, and want to
> just discuss, have dropped off the list.
>
> But hell, if you don't want to talk about Dick, no problem. How
> about Jim Messina & the Jesters? Or the Lively Ones? The Surfaris
> don't pop up very often, but I think "Scattershield" is an intense
> tune! How about the Crossfires? Al Nichol really gave Dick 'a run
> for life' - listen to him on "Out of Control" - holy shit!! When
> was the last time a track by the Chantays (NOT Pipeline) that came
> up in discussion? I've always been fond of "Beyond", "Space Probe"
> and their version of "Wayward Nile" never fails to give me the
> shivers.
>
> I'll be very happy to talk about any of these when we get bored of
> Dick. I enjoy a lot of modern surf, as should be very clear, but
> c'mon, the sixties surf was so damn GOOD - don't you think so???
>
> Ivan
>
>
> --- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
> wrote:
> > Dick Dale has been discussed and threaded to an incredible
> degree. A change of subject is refreshing at times!
> >
> > With all due respect,
> >
> > Bruce D
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1151 (20050622) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ivan:
well, I for one, can talk about Dick Dale and the Mighty
Reverberated Revolution of 1960-1964 for hours upon end. I
too am fascinated by the creativity and many
artistic/social/cultural/technological impacts of the first
wave surf dudes (and dudettes:ie Kathy Marshall)...it
really was quite a significant phenomenom.
But, I must admit, that I am also guilty of plenty of
"tangent talk".
Nevertheless, I think that the randomness is part of the
beauty of this forum, the free-flowing ideas and
opinions...often-times sprinkled with nuggets of rare info,
data, insight and wisdom....rare gems these days indeed,
especially on the internet!
As always, your insights are thought provoking, and much
appreciated...at least by me,
-dp
--- ipongrac <> wrote:
> I love internet lists. They rule. Where else can you
> start a
> conversation about one thing, have one guy ACTUALLY
> respond to it
> while at least three and probably more like five or six
> guys go off
> on tangents, telling you that you don't know what you're
> talking
> about?? Brilliant! Oh, and then of course there's the
> obligatory, "let's define what we're really talking
> about" post,
> too! :)
>
> Look, I love the solo from Rock Around The Clock. Who
> doesn't?
> It's awesome. But it has nothing to do with surf music.
> And I
> regret that I worded my original post in a way that would
> invite
> endless discussion and speculation on what is shred, who
> started it,
> where does jazz end and rock begin, etc. I guess I
> really don't
> give a shit. What I DO give a shit about is DDs amazing
> solo on
> this obscure track that I don't think many people know
> about. It's
> a bit sad that people would rather talk about Danny
> Cedrone than
> Dick Dale on a surf list though... Mention Cedrone and
> three guys
> pipe up. Mention Dick, and one guy pipes up? Does that
> strike
> anyone else as weird? Is there no desire among the
> people on this
> list to actually learn about the lost surf diamonds? One
> thing that
> I find really astonishing is how little discussion there
> actually is
> about the SIXTIES SURF MUSIC - you know, the stuff that
> started it
> all? Is it that people just don't know enough to even
> engage in a
> discussion? Or that they just don't care? The more I
> learn about
> that short period of three or four years, the more blown
> away I am
> by the creativity and originality that emerged from it.
> And how
> astonishingly quickly it evolved from Let's Go Trippin'
> and Mr. Moto
> to Mar Gaya and Ventures in Space. And though I greatly
> applaud
> people approaching surf music with their own
> interpretation, is it
> possible that most people really know very little about
> the guys
> that started all this? Or is it just that they're bored
> talking
> about it? I'm mystified.
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
> --- In , bruce duncan
> <wetreverb@y...>
> wrote:
> > Let's just face the undeniable fact that Cedrone's solo
> on Rock
> Around The Clock, (Jazz-Based or not) is one of the most
> defining
> moments in the evolution of early Rock & Roll. And where
> exactly
> does one draw the line? Walk Don't Run was composed and
> recorded by
> Johnny Smith, (later covered by Chet Atkins) as a
> finger-style jazz
> composition, and yet it became one of Rock & Roll's most
> memorable
> hits, as performed by the original FOUR Ventures.
> >
> > Bruce D
> >
> > supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're
> saying, to
> my
> > > ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo
> than a rock
> solo,
> > > though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat
> sounds a lot
> more
> > > like an eighties metal solo.
> > >
> > > Ivan
> >
> > Hmmm, Nitro Fuel! not HEAT! lol. I agree with Ivan I
> think the
> Rock
> > Around the clock solo is more jazz based. But I don't
> really
> think
> > Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I
> know little
> > about that.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for
> archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
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> Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile
> phone.
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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Hey Ivan,
Being a writer and performer of trad surf instro music, and having been a fan
of surf instro music for about 45 years, I was wearing out Dick Dale albums
while most of day's surf guitarists were still in diapers, or not even born.
There's no question about DD's talent, abilities, technical prowess, and the
significance he will always have as being one of the founding fathers of 1960's
surf music. Maybe it's my Classical Music training coming to the surface, but
I've gravitated tastes-wise towards the surf bands that play with less volume
and more dynamics, and who do a lot of slower, moodier numbers. You mention
several great bands - and there are many others as well, such as The
Astronauts, The Pyramids, The Nocturnes, The Sentinels, The Impacts, Dave Myers
and The Surftones, and among today's surf bands, The Surf Kings, The Aqua
Velvets, The Aquamarines, The Deoras, The Eliminators, The Surf Coasters
(wow!!), The Nebulas, your old band, The Space Cossacks, Satan's Pilgrims,
Slacktone, Insect Surfers, The Torquays, I could go on for the next several
paragraphs.
Most of these bands and players have been able to make their own unique
innovative contribution to the rich heritage of Surf Music, without sounding
like clones of DD.
I've written a song or two that clearly showed DD's influence, but, it's
tremendously fatiguing to both player and listener, to be besieged by an hour of
120+db machine-gun riffs, when I would rather have heard a modern take on Theme
from The Endless Summer! The Chantays' Beyond and Space Probe are both
excellent, but so is Killer Dana.
I remember seeing The Crossfires play somewhere in the South Bay, back in '63,
with an older cousin, and I thought the lead guitar was Tom Stanton, but that
was a long time ago, and sometimes one's memory can be a tricky thing.
Longboard Ranch, my band, has three guitars, so we can have the classic
Astronauts-pioneered full surf rhythm-section, including damped reverb rhythm
guitar. I'm lead guitar and main songwriter. Our Second Guitar is Loyd Davis,
an original founding member of The Surf Raiders, who when still a teenager, used
to travel from Downey, California to Newport Beach, to see DD performing,
starting right about the time "Let's Go Tripping" was released. Before DD,
Loyd's favorites were The Fireballs, The Wailers, Link Wray and Duane Eddy.
I guess my point is pretty much in agreement with what you said in your posting,
that there are indeed many other pioneering Surf Artists we can discuss, (and I
say this with much respect) without the discussions being dominated by DD.
BTW, I ordered several sets of the Rotos, in 12 & 13. The 13's on my Jazzmaster
sound much better than the RW 12's on my Strat, so on the Strat, it's back to
D'Addario 12's, but I'm liking the Rotos on the Jazzmaster, quite a lot. Thanks
for having informed us all about them!
Respectfully,
Bruce D
ipongrac <> wrote:
Bruce, with all due respect, when we're just finding out he used
roundwound strings in the sixties, and songs like Nitro Fuel or
Ghost Riders have NEVER (as far I know) been mentioned on the list,
then there's stil plenty to talk about. Much better than discussing
Eric Johnson (who I actually saw play live in July of '90, and was
there hours before the show, watching him prepare and hang out with
Paul Reed Smith who gave him a guitar as a present - the show was in
Washington, DC) on a surf list.
The more I get into Dick's sixties music, the more I enjoy it and
the more respect I have for him as a guitarist. Maybe five years
ago I would have responded in the same way, but it's shocking to me
how many surf fans know very little of his music outside the Rhino
best-of. He had six albums in the sixties, you know... How many
times has his last studio album from the sixties, Summer Surf, come
up? I think this is an amazing album, with two tracks that are well-
known and deservedly so (Banzaii Washout and Tidal Wave) but with so
many more that are completely unknown (very much undeservedly so),
like The Star (of David), Spanish Kiss, Surfin' Rebel, and Never on
Sunday. These albums of his are selling for $80 on eBay, too!
Anyway, I don't know why you hang out on this list, but I personally
want to learn more about surf music, and there is still a lot more
unknown about Dick. And I know for a fact that guys that know
something about topics like these and want to know more, and want to
just discuss, have dropped off the list.
But hell, if you don't want to talk about Dick, no problem. How
about Jim Messina & the Jesters? Or the Lively Ones? The Surfaris
don't pop up very often, but I think "Scattershield" is an intense
tune! How about the Crossfires? Al Nichol really gave Dick 'a run
for life' - listen to him on "Out of Control" - holy shit!! When
was the last time a track by the Chantays (NOT Pipeline) that came
up in discussion? I've always been fond of "Beyond", "Space Probe"
and their version of "Wayward Nile" never fails to give me the
shivers.
I'll be very happy to talk about any of these when we get bored of
Dick. I enjoy a lot of modern surf, as should be very clear, but
c'mon, the sixties surf was so damn GOOD - don't you think so???
Ivan
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> Dick Dale has been discussed and threaded to an incredible
degree. A change of subject is refreshing at times!
>
> With all due respect,
>
> Bruce D
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It was too late for me to reply last night, but I'm with WR and Brian. I
lived in a place where there was no exposure to 60's surf music, so I don't
have a lot of prior knowledge about the more obscure stuff, and I welcome
any discussion which stays ON TOPIC regarding that. Now that I moved to
So-Cal , I have Jeff BigTikiDude to thank for giving me/letting me
borrow/sell me various cds. I also always try to listen to what Ivan says,
not because of brown-nosing, but because I noticed, over the years, that his
taste in surf and instrumental music (I was exposed to the Shadows since I
was in my crib), is almost identical to mine. Also, regarding the first wave
stuff, Phil Dirt's reviews and posts (dial-up prevents me from listening to
the radio show) about 60's stuff are "trust-worthy" to me.
Klas - thanks a lot for the compilation info! very valuable info.
So, please, do us surf music afficianados a big favor and at least try to
refrain from on-going discussions about shredders, jazz, blues, vocal r&r
and other unrelated stuff.
I try to contribute my part by posting on-topic. yes, I know my posts are
mostly about gear, but that's where I feel I have some knowledge (and you
can also see that I don't discuss the latest distortion pedals here, for
example).
Thanks for steering the discussion in the right direction, you know who you
are.
Ran
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 6/23/05
Is it possible to listen to Phil's show over the internet?
--- In , Ran Mosessco <burnman@n...> wrote:
>
> It was too late for me to reply last night, but I'm with WR and
Brian. I
> lived in a place where there was no exposure to 60's surf music, so
I don't
> have a lot of prior knowledge about the more obscure stuff, and I
welcome
> any discussion which stays ON TOPIC regarding that. Now that I moved to
> So-Cal , I have Jeff BigTikiDude to thank for giving me/letting me
> borrow/sell me various cds. I also always try to listen to what Ivan
says,
> not because of brown-nosing, but because I noticed, over the years,
that his
> taste in surf and instrumental music (I was exposed to the Shadows
since I
> was in my crib), is almost identical to mine. Also, regarding the
first wave
> stuff, Phil Dirt's reviews and posts (dial-up prevents me from
listening to
> the radio show) about 60's stuff are "trust-worthy" to me.
> Klas - thanks a lot for the compilation info! very valuable info.
>
> So, please, do us surf music afficianados a big favor and at least
try to
> refrain from on-going discussions about shredders, jazz, blues,
vocal r&r
> and other unrelated stuff.
>
> I try to contribute my part by posting on-topic. yes, I know my
posts are
> mostly about gear, but that's where I feel I have some knowledge
(and you
> can also see that I don't discuss the latest distortion pedals here, for
> example).
>
> Thanks for steering the discussion in the right direction, you know
who you
> are.
>
> Ran
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 6/23/05
--- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> Is it possible to listen to Phil's show over the internet?
>
Are you trying to be funny again? ;-)
And Ran, you might want to at least try listening to the show over
dial-up. I used to get reasonably good results when I had dial up.
BN
the lo-fi feed works reasonable well on dialup.
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
---------------------------------
--- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> Is it possible to listen to Phil's show over the internet?
>
Are you trying to be funny again? ;-)
And Ran, you might want to at least try listening to the show over
dial-up. I used to get reasonably good results when I had dial up.
BN
.
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and stay that way through out. There are broadband quality and dialup
quality feeds, plus some British server streams 20 sockets (or used to)
in mono.
--- Jacob Dobner <> wrote:
---------------------------------
Is it possible to listen to Phil's show over the internet?
--- In , Ran Mosessco <burnman@n...>
wrote:
>
> It was too late for me to reply last night, but I'm with WR and
Brian. I
> lived in a place where there was no exposure to 60's surf music, so
I don't
> have a lot of prior knowledge about the more obscure stuff, and I
welcome
> any discussion which stays ON TOPIC regarding that. Now that I moved
to
> So-Cal , I have Jeff BigTikiDude to thank for giving me/letting me
> borrow/sell me various cds. I also always try to listen to what Ivan
says,
> not because of brown-nosing, but because I noticed, over the years,
that his
> taste in surf and instrumental music (I was exposed to the Shadows
since I
> was in my crib), is almost identical to mine. Also, regarding the
first wave
> stuff, Phil Dirt's reviews and posts (dial-up prevents me from
listening to
> the radio show) about 60's stuff are "trust-worthy" to me.
> Klas - thanks a lot for the compilation info! very valuable info.
>
> So, please, do us surf music afficianados a big favor and at least
try to
> refrain from on-going discussions about shredders, jazz, blues,
vocal r&r
> and other unrelated stuff.
>
> I try to contribute my part by posting on-topic. yes, I know my
posts are
> mostly about gear, but that's where I feel I have some knowledge
(and you
> can also see that I don't discuss the latest distortion pedals here,
for
> example).
>
> Thanks for steering the discussion in the right direction, you know
who you
> are.
>
> Ran
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.0/27 - Release Date: 6/23/05
.
Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
God, so many great posts today!! Very cool! Of course, that
happens when I have no time to participate. Typical. Well, I'll
try now...
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Now wait a minute, Ivan,
>
> I remember a certain lead guitarist of the Space Cossacks who was
> much less enamered with Dick Dale being more distracted by Dick's
> ego, and when talk of Dick came up on the lists, he made less than
> complimentary remarks about the guy. So now there's a drought in
> Dick talk and you're not happy about it! Well ultimately I'm
> refreshed that you are now championing the King of the Surf
> Guitar.
Ah, Marty, you think you got me, but I challenge you to find among
all of those less-than-complimentary comments I had about Dick even
one disparaging remark about his music or guitar playing, especially
from the sixties! Nope, won't happen, cause I never uttered it.
I'll freely admit that between '98 and '00 I had had it with Dick's
antics at his live shows, all of his self-promotion, his twisting of
historical facts, his crap about indiginous people everywhere,
enviromentalism. (BTW, I greatly enjoyed his shows last month and
last year, but he's a lot better than he was in the nineties, I
think.) But none of that matters - what matters is the awesome
music he left us.
The point is, as I also tried to indicate in a previous message,
that as I made some effort to get to know some of his more obscure
music, I was richly rewarded, which is why I'm recommending it on
the list to the others. There are a lot of lost diamonds on those
six albums of his, that few surf fans know about. (Another
one: "Firing Up" - what awesome guitar work there is on that one!)
> I do get that your point is really about the lack of surf talk in
> general on this list and not so much about Dick Dale but keeping
> on DD, I'm guessin' Rhino, Sundazed or EMI could have released the
> Capitol albums. It's a mystery to me why they haven't.
It seems you all did a good job covering this. I agree it's
Dick's 'fault.' He owns the masters and for whatever reason doesn't
want to reissue the albums. We need an email campaign...
> Of course that partially 'splains why few in the group can talk
> about the albums and their deep tracks.
Right, I get that, but they're still out there and available. And
the bootlegs are around too. My point was to get people interested
in trying to discover that stuff. And I know SOME people know about
the song, as was shown subsequently.
> I was gonna say that lists devoted to certain artists as opposed
> to this list devoted to the whole genre, feature talk that goes
> much deeper into obscure album tracks. It does on The Ventures
> list that I host and The Shadows list but then I think about the
> Chet list that was goin' great guns and has sorta died out. Some
> lists seem to have a shelf life.
Well, these lists are what we make them. If people immediately go
off on non-surf tangents when a topic comes up, then nobody's gonna
give a crap. But if we consciously decide to stick to the topics,
it may be only a couple of people initially discussing something,
but that discussion may trigger further discussion and so on.
Obviously, conversation progress by following tangents - but as long
as the tangents are relevant to surf music, it's no problem. As
we've seen today, there are a lot of people that want to learn more
about sixties surf and there are some people that do in fact know
something or even much about it. I think I know quite a bit, but I
really want to learn more. And I do learn more from others, which
is why I'm here in the first place. But as great as many of the non-
surf artists are that have popped on this list discussions, I
absolutely believe they're discussion killers. People are not here
to talk about non-surf artists. So, let's all be a bit more aware
of that and a bit more focused in our discussions.
Also, people shouldn't be afraid to ASK QUESTIONS!!! If you don't
know something but have some interest, bring it up, for God's sake!
That's how we all get an opportunity to engage in some interesting
discussion, be exposed to some surf music that we don't know, and
learn in the process.
Ivan
--- In , DP <noetical1@y...> wrote:
> ivan:
>
> well, I for one, can talk about Dick Dale and the Mighty
> Reverberated Revolution of 1960-1964 for hours upon end. I
> too am fascinated by the creativity and many
> artistic/social/cultural/technological impacts of the first
> wave surf dudes (and dudettes:ie Kathy Marshall)...it
> really was quite a significant phenomenom.
>
> But, I must admit, that I am also guilty of plenty of
> "tangent talk".
>
> Nevertheless, I think that the randomness is part of the
> beauty of this forum, the free-flowing ideas and
> opinions...often-times sprinkled with nuggets of rare info,
> data, insight and wisdom....rare gems these days indeed,
> especially on the internet!
I agree, and as long as we stay within the bounds of surf music I
have no problem with tangents. But let's also at least TRY to stick
to the topic a bit, as well! I think that's reasonable?
> As always, your insights are thought provoking, and much
> appreciated...at least by me,
Thank you, DP, I appreciate that.
Ivan
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> Hey Ivan,
>
> Being a writer and performer of trad surf instro music, and
> having been a fan of surf instro music for about 45 years, I was
> wearing out Dick Dale albums while most of day's surf guitarists
> were still in diapers, or not even born.
I understand, but most of us on the list are not in those
circumstances and don't know all of Dick's music. Which is why it
would be good to talk about it! If you're bored with it, you don't
have to participate. But as someone that was there at the time, it
seems that you would welcome a chance to give us your perspective on
Dick's music (and other bands as well) that we just don't get today.
> There's no question about DD's talent, abilities, technical
> prowess, and the significance he will always have as being one of
> the founding fathers of 1960's surf music. Maybe it's my
> Classical Music training coming to the surface, but I've
> gravitated tastes-wise towards the surf bands that play with less
> volume and more dynamics, and who do a lot of slower, moodier
> numbers.
Well, I love that stuff, too, but I crave excitement and power and
reckless abandon - and few other surf bands have had those like Dick
in the sixties!
> Most of these bands and players have been able to make their own
> unique innovative contribution to the rich heritage of Surf Music,
> without sounding like clones of DD.
Absolutely. In no way did I ever suggest that we should all become
clones. No way! DD was just who I happened to be talking about
when all of this started. I just wanted to get more discussion
going about sixties surf music, and DD though important is far from
the only one!
> I've written a song or two that clearly showed DD's influence,
> but, it's tremendously fatiguing to both player and listener, to
> be besieged by an hour of 120+db machine-gun riffs, when I would
> rather have heard a modern take on Theme from The Endless Summer!
I guess we differ here! Give me the barrage any day, both as a
player and listener!
> I remember seeing The Crossfires play somewhere in the South Bay,
> back in '63, with an older cousin, and I thought the lead guitar
> was Tom Stanton, but that was a long time ago, and sometimes one's
> memory can be a tricky thing.
Nope, Stanton was the rhythm guitarist. Al Nichol was the shit-hot
lead guitarist - playing a Strat, too!
> I guess my point is pretty much in agreement with what you said in
> your posting, that there are indeed many other pioneering Surf
> Artists we can discuss, (and I say this with much respect) without
> the discussions being dominated by DD.
Absolutely. I never meant to suggest that. I want to talk about
them all!
> BTW, I ordered several sets of the Rotos, in 12 & 13. The 13's on
> my Jazzmaster sound much better than the RW 12's on my Strat, so
> on the Strat, it's back to D'Addario 12's, but I'm liking the
> Rotos on the Jazzmaster, quite a lot. Thanks for having informed
> us all about them!
Interesting. You're the first one I know of that prefers D'Addarios
to Rotos on the Strat. Oh well, to each his own. At least it
worked out for the Jazzmaster.
Ivan
No, I didn't "get you", Ivan. I did find dichotomy in your current remarks vs
your earlier Dick Dale attitude. I call that kind change of opinion "dynamic
thinking" and I live by it (but I don't recomend it for presidential
candidates). Sure you didn't besmirch Dick's talent in those days. I don't
recall you dwelling on Dick's talent at all. I imagine you may have qualified
your criticisms with an occasional, "Miserlou is great BUT..." followed by more
preoccupation with Dick's ego-based shenanigans. That ego can easily hinder ones
view of the great that is there. I'm just happy when a non-believer eventually
finds the real Dick Dale. Now you are veritable DD evangelist disappointed that
the scattered flocks appear to be more interested in distortion boxes or
something.
And then there are those who are still blinded by the "bigness" that is Dick
Dale. Big Tiki and Billy Blastoff, repent! You will be one of us!
-Stepford Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:50 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
God, so many great posts today!! Very cool! Of course, that
happens when I have no time to participate. Typical. Well, I'll
try now...
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Now wait a minute, Ivan,
>
> I remember a certain lead guitarist of the Space Cossacks who was
> much less enamered with Dick Dale being more distracted by Dick's
> ego, and when talk of Dick came up on the lists, he made less than
> complimentary remarks about the guy. So now there's a drought in
> Dick talk and you're not happy about it! Well ultimately I'm
> refreshed that you are now championing the King of the Surf
> Guitar.
Ah, Marty, you think you got me, but I challenge you to find among
all of those less-than-complimentary comments I had about Dick even
one disparaging remark about his music or guitar playing, especially
from the sixties! Nope, won't happen, cause I never uttered it.
I'll freely admit that between '98 and '00 I had had it with Dick's
antics at his live shows, all of his self-promotion, his twisting of
historical facts, his crap about indiginous people everywhere,
enviromentalism. (BTW, I greatly enjoyed his shows last month and
last year, but he's a lot better than he was in the nineties, I
think.) But none of that matters - what matters is the awesome
music he left us.
The point is, as I also tried to indicate in a previous message,
that as I made some effort to get to know some of his more obscure
music, I was richly rewarded, which is why I'm recommending it on
the list to the others. There are a lot of lost diamonds on those
six albums of his, that few surf fans know about. (Another
one: "Firing Up" - what awesome guitar work there is on that one!)
> I do get that your point is really about the lack of surf talk in
> general on this list and not so much about Dick Dale but keeping
> on DD, I'm guessin' Rhino, Sundazed or EMI could have released the
> Capitol albums. It's a mystery to me why they haven't.
It seems you all did a good job covering this. I agree it's
Dick's 'fault.' He owns the masters and for whatever reason doesn't
want to reissue the albums. We need an email campaign...
> Of course that partially 'splains why few in the group can talk
> about the albums and their deep tracks.
Right, I get that, but they're still out there and available. And
the bootlegs are around too. My point was to get people interested
in trying to discover that stuff. And I know SOME people know about
the song, as was shown subsequently.
> I was gonna say that lists devoted to certain artists as opposed
> to this list devoted to the whole genre, feature talk that goes
> much deeper into obscure album tracks. It does on The Ventures
> list that I host and The Shadows list but then I think about the
> Chet list that was goin' great guns and has sorta died out. Some
> lists seem to have a shelf life.
Well, these lists are what we make them. If people immediately go
off on non-surf tangents when a topic comes up, then nobody's gonna
give a crap. But if we consciously decide to stick to the topics,
it may be only a couple of people initially discussing something,
but that discussion may trigger further discussion and so on.
Obviously, conversation progress by following tangents - but as long
as the tangents are relevant to surf music, it's no problem. As
we've seen today, there are a lot of people that want to learn more
about sixties surf and there are some people that do in fact know
something or even much about it. I think I know quite a bit, but I
really want to learn more. And I do learn more from others, which
is why I'm here in the first place. But as great as many of the non-
surf artists are that have popped on this list discussions, I
absolutely believe they're discussion killers. People are not here
to talk about non-surf artists. So, let's all be a bit more aware
of that and a bit more focused in our discussions.
Also, people shouldn't be afraid to ASK QUESTIONS!!! If you don't
know something but have some interest, bring it up, for God's sake!
That's how we all get an opportunity to engage in some interesting
discussion, be exposed to some surf music that we don't know, and
learn in the process.
Ivan
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't mean to contradict you, Marty, but... I will!
That's just not the case. I have loved Dick's music since at
least '91 or '92. I always thought of my guitar style as blending
Dick, Hank Marvin and the Atlantics, as far back as '96 when I
started the Space Cossacks. We recorded Hava Nagila for our first
demo (and then again at the session for our first CD, though that
remains unreleased), and we often performed The Wedge as well as
Miserlou live. We tried to do The Victor, but could never do it
right. It was one of the first songs we learned with the Madeira
last year, and it'll probably go on our debut CD. I've been
listening to Dick for a long time, and been a big fan of his music
from the beginning.
And indeed, I clearly remember writing in the early days of
Cowabunga posts about how great Dick's stuff is. Maybe you weren't
with us back then? I'm talking about '95-'97. My thinking has not
changed qualitively, only quantatively - in a sense that I know more
of his music now, and admire his entire body of work even more. I
was NEVER a 'non-believer'!
So there!
Ivan
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> No, I didn't "get you", Ivan. I did find dichotomy in your
current remarks vs your earlier Dick Dale attitude. I call that kind
change of opinion "dynamic thinking" and I live by it (but I don't
recomend it for presidential candidates). Sure you didn't besmirch
Dick's talent in those days. I don't recall you dwelling on Dick's
talent at all. I imagine you may have qualified your criticisms with
an occasional, "Miserlou is great BUT..." followed by more
preoccupation with Dick's ego-based shenanigans. That ego can easily
hinder ones view of the great that is there. I'm just happy when a
non-believer eventually finds the real Dick Dale. Now you are
veritable DD evangelist disappointed that the scattered flocks
appear to be more interested in distortion boxes or something.
>
> And then there are those who are still blinded by the "bigness"
that is Dick Dale. Big Tiki and Billy Blastoff, repent! You will be
one of us!
> -Stepford Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ipongrac
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:50 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
>
>
> God, so many great posts today!! Very cool! Of course, that
> happens when I have no time to participate. Typical. Well,
I'll
> try now...
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens"
> <mctippens@e...> wrote:
> > Now wait a minute, Ivan,
> >
> > I remember a certain lead guitarist of the Space Cossacks who
was
> > much less enamered with Dick Dale being more distracted by
Dick's
> > ego, and when talk of Dick came up on the lists, he made less
than
> > complimentary remarks about the guy. So now there's a drought
in
> > Dick talk and you're not happy about it! Well ultimately I'm
> > refreshed that you are now championing the King of the Surf
> > Guitar.
>
> Ah, Marty, you think you got me, but I challenge you to find
among
> all of those less-than-complimentary comments I had about Dick
even
> one disparaging remark about his music or guitar playing,
especially
> from the sixties! Nope, won't happen, cause I never uttered
it.
> I'll freely admit that between '98 and '00 I had had it with
Dick's
> antics at his live shows, all of his self-promotion, his
twisting of
> historical facts, his crap about indiginous people everywhere,
> enviromentalism. (BTW, I greatly enjoyed his shows last month
and
> last year, but he's a lot better than he was in the nineties, I
> think.) But none of that matters - what matters is the awesome
> music he left us.
>
> The point is, as I also tried to indicate in a previous message,
> that as I made some effort to get to know some of his more
obscure
> music, I was richly rewarded, which is why I'm recommending it
on
> the list to the others. There are a lot of lost diamonds on
those
> six albums of his, that few surf fans know about. (Another
> one: "Firing Up" - what awesome guitar work there is on that
one!)
>
> > I do get that your point is really about the lack of surf talk
in
> > general on this list and not so much about Dick Dale but
keeping
> > on DD, I'm guessin' Rhino, Sundazed or EMI could have released
the
> > Capitol albums. It's a mystery to me why they haven't.
>
> It seems you all did a good job covering this. I agree it's
> Dick's 'fault.' He owns the masters and for whatever reason
doesn't
> want to reissue the albums. We need an email campaign...
>
> > Of course that partially 'splains why few in the group can
talk
> > about the albums and their deep tracks.
>
> Right, I get that, but they're still out there and available.
And
> the bootlegs are around too. My point was to get people
interested
> in trying to discover that stuff. And I know SOME people know
about
> the song, as was shown subsequently.
>
> > I was gonna say that lists devoted to certain artists as
opposed
> > to this list devoted to the whole genre, feature talk that
goes
> > much deeper into obscure album tracks. It does on The Ventures
> > list that I host and The Shadows list but then I think about
the
> > Chet list that was goin' great guns and has sorta died out.
Some
> > lists seem to have a shelf life.
>
> Well, these lists are what we make them. If people immediately
go
> off on non-surf tangents when a topic comes up, then nobody's
gonna
> give a crap. But if we consciously decide to stick to the
topics,
> it may be only a couple of people initially discussing
something,
> but that discussion may trigger further discussion and so on.
> Obviously, conversation progress by following tangents - but as
long
> as the tangents are relevant to surf music, it's no problem. As
> we've seen today, there are a lot of people that want to learn
more
> about sixties surf and there are some people that do in fact
know
> something or even much about it. I think I know quite a bit,
but I
> really want to learn more. And I do learn more from others,
which
> is why I'm here in the first place. But as great as many of the
non-
> surf artists are that have popped on this list discussions, I
> absolutely believe they're discussion killers. People are not
here
> to talk about non-surf artists. So, let's all be a bit more
aware
> of that and a bit more focused in our discussions.
>
> Also, people shouldn't be afraid to ASK QUESTIONS!!! If you
don't
> know something but have some interest, bring it up, for God's
sake!
> That's how we all get an opportunity to engage in some
interesting
> discussion, be exposed to some surf music that we don't know,
and
> learn in the process.
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1152 (20050623) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It certainly is reasonable to stay on topic, Ivan, but it helps if the topic is
clearly stated and in the initial sentence of the post. I'm not saying your
topic wasn't clearly stated. I don't recall exactly the original post as I was
responding to some down the line post. I do see many posts from members that are
long and include many thoughts which seem to me to be perfect prescriptions for
tangent city. Sure it would be nice if readers could be trusted to focus on the
topic wherever it appears in the post, but this is a fun time list for many who
are just glancing through. We see the word "shred" among a pile of words and
it's time to relive the '80's.
-Marty
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:51 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
... as long as we stay within the bounds of surf music I
have no problem with tangents. But let's also at least TRY to stick
to the topic a bit, as well! I think that's reasonable?...
Ivan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok Ivan, that's fine if you were never truely a non-believer and always loved
Dick's music. I was going for drama. Never-the-less a period of time did exist
where your post appeared to be more focused on dis'ing the man. If you are
trying to say that there never was a time when you would not have engaged in a
discusion of the merits of Dick Dale, that one period seemed to me to be an
exception.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:49 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
Don't mean to contradict you, Marty, but... I will!
That's just not the case. I have loved Dick's music since at
least '91 or '92. I always thought of my guitar style as blending
Dick, Hank Marvin and the Atlantics, as far back as '96 when I
started the Space Cossacks. We recorded Hava Nagila for our first
demo (and then again at the session for our first CD, though that
remains unreleased), and we often performed The Wedge as well as
Miserlou live. We tried to do The Victor, but could never do it
right. It was one of the first songs we learned with the Madeira
last year, and it'll probably go on our debut CD. I've been
listening to Dick for a long time, and been a big fan of his music
from the beginning.
And indeed, I clearly remember writing in the early days of
Cowabunga posts about how great Dick's stuff is. Maybe you weren't
with us back then? I'm talking about '95-'97. My thinking has not
changed qualitively, only quantatively - in a sense that I know more
of his music now, and admire his entire body of work even more. I
was NEVER a 'non-believer'!
So there!
Ivan
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> No, I didn't "get you", Ivan. I did find dichotomy in your
current remarks vs your earlier Dick Dale attitude. I call that kind
change of opinion "dynamic thinking" and I live by it (but I don't
recomend it for presidential candidates). Sure you didn't besmirch
Dick's talent in those days. I don't recall you dwelling on Dick's
talent at all. I imagine you may have qualified your criticisms with
an occasional, "Miserlou is great BUT..." followed by more
preoccupation with Dick's ego-based shenanigans. That ego can easily
hinder ones view of the great that is there. I'm just happy when a
non-believer eventually finds the real Dick Dale. Now you are
veritable DD evangelist disappointed that the scattered flocks
appear to be more interested in distortion boxes or something.
>
> And then there are those who are still blinded by the "bigness"
that is Dick Dale. Big Tiki and Billy Blastoff, repent! You will be
one of us!
> -Stepford Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ipongrac
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:50 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Nitro Fuel fails to ignite
>
>
> God, so many great posts today!! Very cool! Of course, that
> happens when I have no time to participate. Typical. Well,
I'll
> try now...
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens"
> <mctippens@e...> wrote:
> > Now wait a minute, Ivan,
> >
> > I remember a certain lead guitarist of the Space Cossacks who
was
> > much less enamered with Dick Dale being more distracted by
Dick's
> > ego, and when talk of Dick came up on the lists, he made less
than
> > complimentary remarks about the guy. So now there's a drought
in
> > Dick talk and you're not happy about it! Well ultimately I'm
> > refreshed that you are now championing the King of the Surf
> > Guitar.
>
> Ah, Marty, you think you got me, but I challenge you to find
among
> all of those less-than-complimentary comments I had about Dick
even
> one disparaging remark about his music or guitar playing,
especially
> from the sixties! Nope, won't happen, cause I never uttered
it.
> I'll freely admit that between '98 and '00 I had had it with
Dick's
> antics at his live shows, all of his self-promotion, his
twisting of
> historical facts, his crap about indiginous people everywhere,
> enviromentalism. (BTW, I greatly enjoyed his shows last month
and
> last year, but he's a lot better than he was in the nineties, I
> think.) But none of that matters - what matters is the awesome
> music he left us.
>
> The point is, as I also tried to indicate in a previous message,
> that as I made some effort to get to know some of his more
obscure
> music, I was richly rewarded, which is why I'm recommending it
on
> the list to the others. There are a lot of lost diamonds on
those
> six albums of his, that few surf fans know about. (Another
> one: "Firing Up" - what awesome guitar work there is on that
one!)
>
> > I do get that your point is really about the lack of surf talk
in
> > general on this list and not so much about Dick Dale but
keeping
> > on DD, I'm guessin' Rhino, Sundazed or EMI could have released
the
> > Capitol albums. It's a mystery to me why they haven't.
>
> It seems you all did a good job covering this. I agree it's
> Dick's 'fault.' He owns the masters and for whatever reason
doesn't
> want to reissue the albums. We need an email campaign...
>
> > Of course that partially 'splains why few in the group can
talk
> > about the albums and their deep tracks.
>
> Right, I get that, but they're still out there and available.
And
> the bootlegs are around too. My point was to get people
interested
> in trying to discover that stuff. And I know SOME people know
about
> the song, as was shown subsequently.
>
> > I was gonna say that lists devoted to certain artists as
opposed
> > to this list devoted to the whole genre, feature talk that
goes
> > much deeper into obscure album tracks. It does on The Ventures
> > list that I host and The Shadows list but then I think about
the
> > Chet list that was goin' great guns and has sorta died out.
Some
> > lists seem to have a shelf life.
>
> Well, these lists are what we make them. If people immediately
go
> off on non-surf tangents when a topic comes up, then nobody's
gonna
> give a crap. But if we consciously decide to stick to the
topics,
> it may be only a couple of people initially discussing
something,
> but that discussion may trigger further discussion and so on.
> Obviously, conversation progress by following tangents - but as
long
> as the tangents are relevant to surf music, it's no problem. As
> we've seen today, there are a lot of people that want to learn
more
> about sixties surf and there are some people that do in fact
know
> something or even much about it. I think I know quite a bit,
but I
> really want to learn more. And I do learn more from others,
which
> is why I'm here in the first place. But as great as many of the
non-
> surf artists are that have popped on this list discussions, I
> absolutely believe they're discussion killers. People are not
here
> to talk about non-surf artists. So, let's all be a bit more
aware
> of that and a bit more focused in our discussions.
>
> Also, people shouldn't be afraid to ASK QUESTIONS!!! If you
don't
> know something but have some interest, bring it up, for God's
sake!
> That's how we all get an opportunity to engage in some
interesting
> discussion, be exposed to some surf music that we don't know,
and
> learn in the process.
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1152 (20050623) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
__________ NOD32 1.1152 (20050623) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
