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Hey all!
I've been trying to get to know DD's more obscure tracks over the
last couple of months. I have a Surf label bootleg vinyl that
gathers a bunch of lesser known stuff (unfortunately, I don't have a
couple of DDs sixties LPs, so this fills that hole nicely), and one
song in particular has been standing out lately. It's called "Nitro
Fuel" and it's from Dick's fourth album "Mr. Eliminator".
You know, I always thought all that "Father Of Heavy Metal" stuff
was a bunch of crap hype (just because you play loud, it don't make
you metal!), but after listening to this track over and over, I'm
starting to think that there may be something to it. The track
itself ain't much, just a riff repeated over and over again. But
the solo in this song is astonishing. Dick plays a bunch of fast
scalar runs (very unlike him, actually), lot of screaming bent
notes, and ends on a pretty much perfect unexpected bluesy note. I
think any '80s shredder would have a big smile and a thumbs up after
hearing this solo. And that freakin' solo gives a LOT of context
for Shigeo's playing (of the Surf Coasters, for the uninitiated)!
Anyway, just had to get this off my chest. Check it out if you have
it, and pay attention to the solo.
Ivan
PS Yes, I know a lot of jazzbos could and did play really
fast 'shred'-like stuff way before the early sixties - but this is
the earliest solo I know that's truly a r&r shred solo. That's all
I'm saying.
> PS Yes, I know a lot of jazzbos could and did play really
> fast 'shred'-like stuff way before the early sixties - but this is
> the earliest solo I know that's truly a r&r shred solo. That's all
> I'm saying.
Nah, not even close. The first R&R shred solo was in Bill Haley and
the Comets' "Rock Around The Clock". That truly has all the elements
of a shred solo. To this day, it never fails to get me pumped up, and
that truly laid the groundwork for all shred to come.
--- In , "red_thundr" <red_thundr@y...>
wrote:
> > PS Yes, I know a lot of jazzbos could and did play really
> > fast 'shred'-like stuff way before the early sixties - but this is
> > the earliest solo I know that's truly a r&r shred solo. That's
all
> > I'm saying.
>
> Nah, not even close. The first R&R shred solo was in Bill Haley and
> the Comets' "Rock Around The Clock". That truly has all the
elements
> of a shred solo. To this day, it never fails to get me pumped up,
and
> that truly laid the groundwork for all shred to come.
Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're saying, to my
ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo than a rock solo,
though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat sounds a lot more
like an eighties metal solo.
Ivan
>
> Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're saying, to my
> ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo than a rock solo,
> though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat sounds a lot more
> like an eighties metal solo.
>
> Ivan
Hmmm, Nitro Fuel! not HEAT! lol. I agree with Ivan I think the Rock
Around the clock solo is more jazz based. But I don't really think
Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I know little
about that.
Yeah,
Even though Danny Cedrone's "Rock Around the Clock" solo is almost jazz based,
it shreds. That whole tune shreds.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: red_thundr
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:29 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: DD's Nitro Fuel - Birth of Shred?
> PS Yes, I know a lot of jazzbos could and did play really
> fast 'shred'-like stuff way before the early sixties - but this is
> the earliest solo I know that's truly a r&r shred solo. That's all
> I'm saying.
Nah, not even close. The first R&R shred solo was in Bill Haley and
the Comets' "Rock Around The Clock". That truly has all the elements
of a shred solo. To this day, it never fails to get me pumped up, and
that truly laid the groundwork for all shred to come.
.
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I guess we need to define shred. The only thing that I can think that makes the
"Rock Around the Clock" solo any less than shred is it's lack of distortion.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] DD's Nitro Fuel - Birth of Shred?
Hey all!
I've been trying to get to know DD's more obscure tracks over the
last couple of months. I have a Surf label bootleg vinyl that
gathers a bunch of lesser known stuff (unfortunately, I don't have a
couple of DDs sixties LPs, so this fills that hole nicely), and one
song in particular has been standing out lately. It's called "Nitro
Fuel" and it's from Dick's fourth album "Mr. Eliminator".
You know, I always thought all that "Father Of Heavy Metal" stuff
was a bunch of crap hype (just because you play loud, it don't make
you metal!), but after listening to this track over and over, I'm
starting to think that there may be something to it. The track
itself ain't much, just a riff repeated over and over again. But
the solo in this song is astonishing. Dick plays a bunch of fast
scalar runs (very unlike him, actually), lot of screaming bent
notes, and ends on a pretty much perfect unexpected bluesy note. I
think any '80s shredder would have a big smile and a thumbs up after
hearing this solo. And that freakin' solo gives a LOT of context
for Shigeo's playing (of the Surf Coasters, for the uninitiated)!
Anyway, just had to get this off my chest. Check it out if you have
it, and pay attention to the solo.
Ivan
PS Yes, I know a lot of jazzbos could and did play really
fast 'shred'-like stuff way before the early sixties - but this is
the earliest solo I know that's truly a r&r shred solo. That's all
I'm saying.
.
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bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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Let's just face the undeniable fact that Cedrone's solo on Rock Around The
Clock, (Jazz-Based or not) is one of the most defining moments in the evolution
of early Rock & Roll. And where exactly does one draw the line? Walk Don't Run
was composed and recorded by Johnny Smith, (later covered by Chet Atkins) as a
finger-style jazz composition, and yet it became one of Rock & Roll's most
memorable hits, as performed by the original FOUR Ventures.
Bruce D
supertwangreverb <> wrote:
>
> Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're saying, to my
> ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo than a rock solo,
> though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat sounds a lot more
> like an eighties metal solo.
>
> Ivan
Hmmm, Nitro Fuel! not HEAT! lol. I agree with Ivan I think the Rock
Around the clock solo is more jazz based. But I don't really think
Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I know little
about that.
.
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--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Well, you have a point. And though I see what you're saying, to
my
> > ears that still sounds a lot more like a jazz solo than a rock
solo,
> > though certainly within a rock song. Nitro Heat sounds a lot more
> > like an eighties metal solo.
> >
> > Ivan
>
> Hmmm, Nitro Fuel! not HEAT! lol.
oops! Thanks for catching that. Actually, I think this comes from
listening to too much of Dick's nineties stuff a month or so ago: I
must have combined "Nitro" and "Shredded Heat" from his nineties
comeback album "Tribal Thunder". (He also has a song called "Nitrus"
on a later album - a pattern emerges? The guy is stuck in a loop!)
> But I don't really think
> Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I know little
> about that.
It does. I do. Trust me.
Ivan
>
> oops! Thanks for catching that. Actually, I think this comes
from
> listening to too much of Dick's nineties stuff a month or so ago:
I
> must have combined "Nitro" and "Shredded Heat" from his nineties
> comeback album "Tribal Thunder". (He also has a song
called "Nitrus"
> on a later album - a pattern emerges? The guy is stuck in a loop!)
Ivan, if we are going to discus Dick Dale's mid 60s albums... you've
gotta get your drag strip terms straight here!
> > But I don't really think
> > Nitro Fuel sounds much like any 80s metal solo, but I know
little
> > about that.
>
> It does. I do. Trust me.
My education on 80s shredder is minimal, I guess this has nothing to
do with surf music, but what pops in my head is Van Halen, Kirk
Hammet, etc. And that I wasn't hearing on much of Dick's stuff.
When I think of a lot of the shredders I know,I'm reminded of how
little passion many of them have, it's all about trying to play as
many notes as possible. It's unfair to say because I don't know
many shredders, maybe there are passionate ones out there. But when
I hear Dick's solo's I hear much more passionate energy.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
When is Dick going to release his back catalogue, if ever? I would
love to hear this stuff you guys rave about because I've never been
too impressed by the greatest hits package I own. I liked the majority
of the material on his '90s album more than the greatest hits. Granted
there are some stinkers on the '90s but there are a couple pretty good
tunes.
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> My education on 80s shredder is minimal, I guess this has nothing to
> do with surf music, but what pops in my head is Van Halen, Kirk
> Hammet, etc. And that I wasn't hearing on much of Dick's stuff.
> When I think of a lot of the shredders I know,I'm reminded of how
> little passion many of them have, it's all about trying to play as
> many notes as possible. It's unfair to say because I don't know
> many shredders, maybe there are passionate ones out there. But when
> I hear Dick's solo's I hear much more passionate energy.
Uh-oh, watch out, Bill. Red Thunder is gonna come after you with all
he's got now! Marty probably, too. :)
Well, I think it's unfair to generalize like that. Some shredders
were amazing, and put a lot of emotion into their playing. Some did
not and sounded basically like typewriters. There was a guy by the
name of Michael Angelo that was beyond ridiculous! He's still around,
he was doing some guitar clinics about two years ago near me. He said
he'd give a guitar to anyone that can play faster than him! Some of
my friends urged me to challenge him, but there was no way! He
actually had a guitar built with two necks - sticking out in opposite
directions, forming a V!! And he played each neck with one hand,
doing all the legato stuff - I mean, c'mon!! Music is not a freakin'
sport where you gotta outdo the next guy! That was the mentality of
the eighties, though. But hell, it's all subjective. I find that
though I listened to a lot of that stuff back then, and even emulated
some of it, little of it makes an emotional connection today. (But
some of it still does.)
Ivan
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> > My education on 80s shredder is minimal, I guess this has nothing
to
> > do with surf music, but what pops in my head is Van Halen, Kirk
> > Hammet, etc. And that I wasn't hearing on much of Dick's stuff.
> > When I think of a lot of the shredders I know,I'm reminded of how
> > little passion many of them have, it's all about trying to play
as
> > many notes as possible. It's unfair to say because I don't know
> > many shredders, maybe there are passionate ones out there. But
when
> > I hear Dick's solo's I hear much more passionate energy.
>
> Uh-oh, watch out, Bill. Red Thunder is gonna come after you with
all
> he's got now! Marty probably, too. :)
>
> Well, I think it's unfair to generalize like that. Some shredders
> were amazing, and put a lot of emotion into their playing. Some
did
> not and sounded basically like typewriters.
Agreed, no argument there. There were a few very passionate players,
and some who were just typewriters, or worse. Some players it was
debatable whether they were shred or not. Slash, for example, was not
known for being a technical player, but he ended up respected for his
emotional playing. Kirk Hammett of Metallica was not really
considered shred; he was often chided for not being very technical,
despite having studied with Joe Satriani. But this ended up working
out for him in the end, allowing him to develop a unique vibrato and
angular melodicism that made him stand out.
Edward Van Halen was really the genesis of the pure rock guitar
virtuoso, though some groundwork was laid by Jimi Hendrix, Eric
Clapton, Johnny Winter, and Alvin Lee, who are all more appropriately
labeled blues players. Other paths were taken by Al DiMeola, John
McLaughlin. The '80s neoclassical era had its roots in the late '70s,
with Randy Rhoads and Yngwie Malmsteen embracing a classical
influence.
Many of the glut of mid-80s shredders were primarily influenced by
Malmsteen, but in that group, there were few standouts. It eventually
turned into a self-indlugent, incestual mess with every up-and-coming
metal band featuring a hot new "virtuoso" guitarist. Still, only a
few players were really memorable for doing anything interesting with
some consistency: George Lynch, Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, maybe
Greg Howe and Michael Lee Firkins, and some fusion-y players, like
Steve Morse, Frank Gambale, and Scott Henderson. A few had stellar
moments, like Vito Bratta and Reb Beach.
The rest? Well... there were a zillion of 'em. I'd suggest pouring
through Shrapnel Records' back catalog if you're interested. There
are a few gems. A few of my personal faves from that era:
Yngwie Malmsteen: "Black Star", "Spasebo Blues"
Greg Howe: "The Pepper Shake", "Kick It All Over"
Steve Vai: "Shyboy", "The Audience Is Listening"
Vito Bratta: "Wait", "Little Fighter"
Steve Morse: "Tumeni Notes"
Joe Satriani: "Surfing With The Alien", "Rubina"
Good job, Red. This string has now gone as far off it's originally intended
track as it possibly can! Well wait a minute, maybe I can throw in a few words
about Mac Davis.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: red_thundr
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:46 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: DD's Nitro Fuel - Birth of Shred?
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
> --- In , "supertwangreverb"
> <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> > My education on 80s shredder is minimal, I guess this has nothing
to
> > do with surf music, but what pops in my head is Van Halen, Kirk
> > Hammet, etc. And that I wasn't hearing on much of Dick's stuff.
> > When I think of a lot of the shredders I know,I'm reminded of how
> > little passion many of them have, it's all about trying to play
as
> > many notes as possible. It's unfair to say because I don't know
> > many shredders, maybe there are passionate ones out there. But
when
> > I hear Dick's solo's I hear much more passionate energy.
>
> Uh-oh, watch out, Bill. Red Thunder is gonna come after you with
all
> he's got now! Marty probably, too. :)
>
> Well, I think it's unfair to generalize like that. Some shredders
> were amazing, and put a lot of emotion into their playing. Some
did
> not and sounded basically like typewriters.
Agreed, no argument there. There were a few very passionate players,
and some who were just typewriters, or worse. Some players it was
debatable whether they were shred or not. Slash, for example, was not
known for being a technical player, but he ended up respected for his
emotional playing. Kirk Hammett of Metallica was not really
considered shred; he was often chided for not being very technical,
despite having studied with Joe Satriani. But this ended up working
out for him in the end, allowing him to develop a unique vibrato and
angular melodicism that made him stand out.
Edward Van Halen was really the genesis of the pure rock guitar
virtuoso, though some groundwork was laid by Jimi Hendrix, Eric
Clapton, Johnny Winter, and Alvin Lee, who are all more appropriately
labeled blues players. Other paths were taken by Al DiMeola, John
McLaughlin. The '80s neoclassical era had its roots in the late '70s,
with Randy Rhoads and Yngwie Malmsteen embracing a classical
influence.
Many of the glut of mid-80s shredders were primarily influenced by
Malmsteen, but in that group, there were few standouts. It eventually
turned into a self-indlugent, incestual mess with every up-and-coming
metal band featuring a hot new "virtuoso" guitarist. Still, only a
few players were really memorable for doing anything interesting with
some consistency: George Lynch, Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, maybe
Greg Howe and Michael Lee Firkins, and some fusion-y players, like
Steve Morse, Frank Gambale, and Scott Henderson. A few had stellar
moments, like Vito Bratta and Reb Beach.
The rest? Well... there were a zillion of 'em. I'd suggest pouring
through Shrapnel Records' back catalog if you're interested. There
are a few gems. A few of my personal faves from that era:
Yngwie Malmsteen: "Black Star", "Spasebo Blues"
Greg Howe: "The Pepper Shake", "Kick It All Over"
Steve Vai: "Shyboy", "The Audience Is Listening"
Vito Bratta: "Wait", "Little Fighter"
Steve Morse: "Tumeni Notes"
Joe Satriani: "Surfing With The Alien", "Rubina"
.
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bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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