Menu
When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he asked my
Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at all, and
they shared it. Too funny.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
Jeff,
That's classic!
I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's surf
songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
"Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with gong)"
and
"Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
Well, I'll admit to being a long time Neil Young fan. Long may he run.
So I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
section. Check 'em out and enjoy. I do believe that Neil has professed
a Shadows influence.
Rick
But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)
--- In , "stratrhythm"
<lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
> He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
> One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he asked
my
> Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at all, and
> they shared it. Too funny.
>
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> That's classic!
>
> I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's surf
> songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
>
> "Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with gong)"
> and
> "Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
"Keep On Rockin' In The Free World". I love that song.
Don't be givin' me any ideas...................
---- Rick Selby <> wrote:
> Well, I'll admit to being a long time Neil Young fan. Long may he run.
> So I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
> section. Check 'em out and enjoy. I do believe that Neil has professed
> a Shadows influence.
>
> Rick
>
> But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)
>
> --- In , "stratrhythm"
> <lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
> > He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
> > One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he asked
> my
> > Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at all, and
> > they shared it. Too funny.
> >
> > Jeff(bigtikidude)
> >
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > That's classic!
> >
> > I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's surf
> > songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
> >
> > "Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with gong)"
> > and
> > "Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks so much Rick. Neil's guitar style stuck more to a rhythmic
meter. Now days the man is all over the place and that is what i love
about him. The man rocks out with his guitar.
Sultan is my favorite of the two tunes.
--- In , "Rick Selby" <selby@e...> wrote:
> Well, I'll admit to being a long time Neil Young fan. Long may he run.
> So I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
> section. Check 'em out and enjoy. I do believe that Neil has professed
> a Shadows influence.
>
> Rick
>
> But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)
>
> --- In , "stratrhythm"
> <lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
> > He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
> > One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he asked
> my
> > Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at all, and
> > they shared it. Too funny.
> >
> > Jeff(bigtikidude)
> >
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > That's classic!
> >
> > I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's surf
> > songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
> >
> > "Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with gong)"
> > and
> > "Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
I see a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
Under an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
How is that for an idea.
The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
beyond a simple mood.
The surf world needs some Neil Young covers. My band does Rockin' in
the Free World vocally in practice every now and then. It is the song
we all knew how to play back in 11th grade when we would jam. Like a
Hurrican would be a good surf song if adapted well. Down by the River,
any of his slow songs would make great surf "ballads", I would be
curious to hear how Cinnamon Girl would sound.
--- In , <scanman@a...> wrote:
> "Keep On Rockin' In The Free World". I love that song.
> Don't be givin' me any ideas...................
>
>
> ---- Rick Selby <selby@e...> wrote:
> > Well, I'll admit to being a long time Neil Young fan. Long may he run.
> > So I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
> > section. Check 'em out and enjoy. I do believe that Neil has professed
> > a Shadows influence.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)
> >
> > --- In , "stratrhythm"
> > <lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > > When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
> > > He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
> > > One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he asked
> > my
> > > Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at all, and
> > > they shared it. Too funny.
> > >
> > > Jeff(bigtikidude)
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > That's classic!
> > >
> > > I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's surf
> > > songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
> > >
> > > "Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with gong)"
> > > and
> > > "Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
I always thought Neil should do an all instro album. I like his sound and he
does a lot of long instrumental bits.
That lyric below is one of his greats. I also like this line, "Talk to me my
long lost friend, tell me how you are, are you happy with your circumstance, are
you driving a new car, does it get you where you wanna go, with a seven year
warranty, or just another hundred thousand miles away, from the days that used
to be."
----- Original Message -----
From: Jacob Dobner
To:
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 11:00 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Neil Young: The Missing Surf Years
I see a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
Under an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
How is that for an idea.
The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
beyond a simple mood.
The surf world needs some Neil Young covers. My band does Rockin' in
the Free World vocally in practice every now and then. It is the song
we all knew how to play back in 11th grade when we would jam. Like a
Hurrican would be a good surf song if adapted well. Down by the River,
any of his slow songs would make great surf "ballads", I would be
curious to hear how Cinnamon Girl would sound.
--- In , <scanman@a...> wrote:
> "Keep On Rockin' In The Free World". I love that song.
> Don't be givin' me any ideas...................
>
>
> ---- Rick Selby <selby@e...> wrote:
> > Well, I'll admit to being a long time Neil Young fan. Long may he run.
> > So I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
> > section. Check 'em out and enjoy. I do believe that Neil has professed
> > a Shadows influence.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)
> >
> > --- In , "stratrhythm"
> > <lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > > When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
> > > He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
> > > One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he asked
> > my
> > > Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at all, and
> > > they shared it. Too funny.
> > >
> > > Jeff(bigtikidude)
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > That's classic!
> > >
> > > I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's surf
> > > songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
> > >
> > > "Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with gong)"
> > > and
> > > "Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know Jacob. Instro inspires more than simple mood, or at least if ones
imagination is in good working order it does. I feel that instro does better
than to replicate the imagery of lyrics. Some lyrics, like the one you quote
below, kind of guide ya to a specific mood leaving less room for imagination.
The lyric below, for most, probably brings up angry thoughts of ,"how could
someone do that" or "that is the sad reality we live in" or something along
those lines. Music without lyrics also guides the imagination but probably not
to the same imaginary destination as the next guy. And that's whats so great
about music without lyrics.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Jacob Dobner
To:
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 11:00 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Neil Young: The Missing Surf Years
I see a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
Under an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
How is that for an idea.
The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
beyond a simple mood...
--- In , <scanman@a...> wrote:
> "Keep On Rockin' In The Free World". I love that song.
> Don't be givin' me any ideas...................
>
>
> ---- Rick Selby <selby@e...> wrote:
> > Well, I'll admit to being a long time Neil Young fan. Long may he run.
> > So I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
> > section. Check 'em out and enjoy. I do believe that Neil has professed
> > a Shadows influence.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)
> >
> > --- In , "stratrhythm"
> > <lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > > When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
> > > He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
> > > One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he asked
> > my
> > > Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at all, and
> > > they shared it. Too funny.
> > >
> > > Jeff(bigtikidude)
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > That's classic!
> > >
> > > I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's surf
> > > songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
> > >
> > > "Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with gong)"
> > > and
> > > "Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
__________ NOD32 1.1135 (20050609) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What you get out of music is all subjective. How's that for an idea.
If all you get out of instrumental music is mood, then that is what
you get from it. I feel that instrumental music can give you imagery,
but it is just more subtle than it is with lyrics. What it seems that
you are saying is that no instrumental music has or will ever achieve
the amount of imagery that a song with lyrics can. This would go for
every piece of instrumental classical music ever written too. The
imagery in a vocal song is usually very straight forward with less
room for interpretation (if any), and you are getting the imagery
because it is what is told to you. With instrumental music, you get
the imagery solely from the music itself, and it is more open for
interpretation. Would instumental music be able to make you think of a
homeless crack whore with a baby, probably not, but if that's what a
song makes you think about, then it could I guess. My opinion on
instrumental music is that it can have great imagery, you just have to
look for it, actually listen to the music, not just have it told to
you. Instrumental music can also give more than just a "simple mood".
Again, musical interpretation is all subjective.
Eric
There should be a Neil Young surf tribute album as well as an
instrumental album by the man himself.
--- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
I see a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
Under an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
How is that for an idea.
The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
beyond a simple mood.
I have to put my two-cents in here. But first, this is Bruce D, of Longboard
Ranch. I have been a member under the ID: wizzbangg2003 for some time, but
just tried, on a whim, to see if the user ID "wetreverb" was available on yahoo,
and to my utter surprise, it was!
I think "wetreverb" is a much more descriptive User Name for me than was
"wizzbangg2003", so have made the changeover with all the yahoo groups in which
I've been a member.
Now onto this thread:
I have noticed that along with the educational "dumbing-down" that's been
happening in this country for many years, there's also been a cultural
dumbing-down to go along with it. How exactly did people entertain themselves
in the days before Movies, Television and video games? They read books! Yes,
they read books. Not comic books where every scene was depicted, but books with
pages full of nothing but print.
And what exactly did reading books do for them that Movies, Television, Video
Games and comic books have never done and never will do?
Reading, especially fiction, literally forced them to use their imaginations!
They had to create the picture images within their own minds, of the story
unfolding as they turned page after printed page. Is that why people who read a
lot are often more imaginative than those whose world view is limited to what
they see on TV and in the Movies? I emphatically believe so.
The same applies to music. I can't begin to count the times I've listened to
instrumental music, be it orchestral classical music, jazz, swing, or
instrumental rock, and had very vivid images in my mind to accompany the music.
And, I've never found that lyrics ever provided me with as rich a tapestry of
images, (because lyrics limit the horizons of the listener's imagination) as
what my imagination could do with a really fine rock instrumental, such as
"Journey To The Stars" or "Apache" or "Ghost Riders In The Sky".
Conversely to the listening experience, I've found that using my imagination to
visualize landscapes, seascapes, and things happening, has been an invaluable
tool in helping me to write original instrumental songs. I couldn't have
written most of our better originals without that imagination working full-time,
as I tried different riffs and chords until I got what sounded just right to go
along with the imagery playing out in my mind.
Fortunately, imagination, like a muscle, can be built and developed. Listen to
Link Wray's "Rumble", close your eyes, and let your mind project a deadly
encounter between knife and chain-wielding gangs, in a dark inner-city alley.
Listen to Jorgen Ingman or The Ventures doing "Apache" and visualize a horde of
ghostly Native Americans in full warpaint, crying over what they lost to the
white man. Create the setting in your mind's eye, whether it be a rocky mesa or
the desert floor filled with Saguaro Cacti. Mood? Sure every song has a mood,
but to those blessed with an active imagination, every song, including the
instrumentals, has its own story to tell as well.
With all due respect to all concerned,
Bruce D
Eric <> wrote:
What you get out of music is all subjective. How's that for an idea.
If all you get out of instrumental music is mood, then that is what
you get from it. I feel that instrumental music can give you imagery,
but it is just more subtle than it is with lyrics. What it seems that
you are saying is that no instrumental music has or will ever achieve
the amount of imagery that a song with lyrics can. This would go for
every piece of instrumental classical music ever written too. The
imagery in a vocal song is usually very straight forward with less
room for interpretation (if any), and you are getting the imagery
because it is what is told to you. With instrumental music, you get
the imagery solely from the music itself, and it is more open for
interpretation. Would instumental music be able to make you think of a
homeless crack whore with a baby, probably not, but if that's what a
song makes you think about, then it could I guess. My opinion on
instrumental music is that it can have great imagery, you just have to
look for it, actually listen to the music, not just have it told to
you. Instrumental music can also give more than just a "simple mood".
Again, musical interpretation is all subjective.
Eric
There should be a Neil Young surf tribute album as well as an
instrumental album by the man himself.
--- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
I see a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
Under an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
She hates her life, and what she's done to it
There's one more kid that will never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
How is that for an idea.
The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
beyond a simple mood.
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
---------------------------------
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rick said (and more importantly, did):
"I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
section. Check 'em out and enjoy. Rick
But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)"
Thanks Rick! That was cool.
"And still another piece of surf music history brought to light. This
is Don Pardo saying cowabunga and goodnight..."
Dave
I couldn't structure my words very well. What I really meant to says
is instro music could never replicate the specific feeling of the Neil
Young lyrics. You won't listen to an instro song and get a feeling of
a woman leaving her child in the alley to get a hit.
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> I don't know Jacob. Instro inspires more than simple mood, or at
least if ones imagination is in good working order it does. I feel
that instro does better than to replicate the imagery of lyrics. Some
lyrics, like the one you quote below, kind of guide ya to a specific
mood leaving less room for imagination. The lyric below, for most,
probably brings up angry thoughts of ,"how could someone do that" or
"that is the sad reality we live in" or something along those lines.
Music without lyrics also guides the imagination but probably not to
the same imaginary destination as the next guy. And that's whats so
great about music without lyrics.
>
> -Marty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jacob Dobner
> To:
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 11:00 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Neil Young: The Missing Surf Years
>
>
> I see a woman in the night
> With a baby in her hand
> Under an old street light
> Near a garbage can
> Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
> She hates her life, and what she's done to it
> There's one more kid that will never go to school
> Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
>
> How is that for an idea.
> The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
> Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
> beyond a simple mood...
>
> --- In , <scanman@a...> wrote:
> > "Keep On Rockin' In The Free World". I love that song.
> > Don't be givin' me any ideas...................
> >
> >
> > ---- Rick Selby <selby@e...> wrote:
> > > Well, I'll admit to being a long time Neil Young fan. Long may
he run.
> > > So I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the
files
> > > section. Check 'em out and enjoy. I do believe that Neil has
professed
> > > a Shadows influence.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > > But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)
> > >
> > > --- In , "stratrhythm"
> > > <lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > > > When my dad was in boot camp before going to Vietnam.
> > > > He used to drive from So. Cal. to Bay area for weekend leave.
> > > > One time he picked up a hitch hiker. It was Neil Young, he
asked
> > > my
> > > > Dad if he minded if he lit up a joint. My dad said not at
all, and
> > > > they shared it. Too funny.
> > > >
> > > > Jeff(bigtikidude)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeff,
> > > >
> > > > That's classic!
> > > >
> > > > I was just poking around about Neil and the missing Squire's
surf
> > > > songs and found that there was a bootleg out there that had:
> > > >
> > > > "Electric Instrumental based on 'Apache'of the Shadows (with
gong)"
> > > > and
> > > > "Electric Instrumental Based on 'Rawhide'"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > > Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
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>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1135 (20050609) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You do not get specific imagery you get imagery by association.
Specific imagery is the lyrics telling you what is going on. Imagery
by association(I think it is mood) is the whole surfing feel from the
double pick, and being on a beach from steel guitar. It is likey two
separate cultures would have a completely different interpretation for
some surf songs on the imagery/mood they hear than the interpretation
they had for a song with words.
--- In , "Eric" <cirecc@y...> wrote:
> What you get out of music is all subjective. How's that for an idea.
> If all you get out of instrumental music is mood, then that is what
> you get from it. I feel that instrumental music can give you imagery,
> but it is just more subtle than it is with lyrics. What it seems that
> you are saying is that no instrumental music has or will ever achieve
> the amount of imagery that a song with lyrics can. This would go for
> every piece of instrumental classical music ever written too. The
> imagery in a vocal song is usually very straight forward with less
> room for interpretation (if any), and you are getting the imagery
> because it is what is told to you. With instrumental music, you get
> the imagery solely from the music itself, and it is more open for
> interpretation. Would instumental music be able to make you think of a
> homeless crack whore with a baby, probably not, but if that's what a
> song makes you think about, then it could I guess. My opinion on
> instrumental music is that it can have great imagery, you just have to
> look for it, actually listen to the music, not just have it told to
> you. Instrumental music can also give more than just a "simple mood".
> Again, musical interpretation is all subjective.
>
> Eric
>
> There should be a Neil Young surf tribute album as well as an
> instrumental album by the man himself.
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> I see a woman in the night
> With a baby in her hand
> Under an old street light
> Near a garbage can
> Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
> She hates her life, and what she's done to it
> There's one more kid that will never go to school
> Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
>
> How is that for an idea.
> The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
> Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
> beyond a simple mood.
Yes, two different people will get two different interpretations of lyrics. As
long as one's imagination is in good working order, instrumental music is
equally as image motivating less the guiding association of lyrics.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jacob Dobner
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Neil Young: The Missing Surf Years
You do not get specific imagery you get imagery by association.
Specific imagery is the lyrics telling you what is going on. Imagery
by association(I think it is mood) is the whole surfing feel from the
double pick, and being on a beach from steel guitar. It is likey two
separate cultures would have a completely different interpretation for
some surf songs on the imagery/mood they hear than the interpretation
they had for a song with words.
--- In , "Eric" <cirecc@y...> wrote:
> What you get out of music is all subjective. How's that for an idea.
> If all you get out of instrumental music is mood, then that is what
> you get from it. I feel that instrumental music can give you imagery,
> but it is just more subtle than it is with lyrics. What it seems that
> you are saying is that no instrumental music has or will ever achieve
> the amount of imagery that a song with lyrics can. This would go for
> every piece of instrumental classical music ever written too. The
> imagery in a vocal song is usually very straight forward with less
> room for interpretation (if any), and you are getting the imagery
> because it is what is told to you. With instrumental music, you get
> the imagery solely from the music itself, and it is more open for
> interpretation. Would instumental music be able to make you think of a
> homeless crack whore with a baby, probably not, but if that's what a
> song makes you think about, then it could I guess. My opinion on
> instrumental music is that it can have great imagery, you just have to
> look for it, actually listen to the music, not just have it told to
> you. Instrumental music can also give more than just a "simple mood".
> Again, musical interpretation is all subjective.
>
> Eric
>
> There should be a Neil Young surf tribute album as well as an
> instrumental album by the man himself.
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> I see a woman in the night
> With a baby in her hand
> Under an old street light
> Near a garbage can
> Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
> She hates her life, and what she's done to it
> There's one more kid that will never go to school
> Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
>
> How is that for an idea.
> The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can have.
> Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
> beyond a simple mood.
.
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I'm looking forward to the return of the Halibuts this summer. August 7 is the
big day.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: stratrhythm
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:20 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Neil Young: The Missing Surf Years
Rick said (and more importantly, did):
"I uploaded mp3's of Aurora and Sultan (The Squires) to the files
section. Check 'em out and enjoy. Rick
But I'd still rather see Satan's Pilgrims again :)"
Thanks Rick! That was cool.
"And still another piece of surf music history brought to light. This
is Don Pardo saying cowabunga and goodnight..."
Dave
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Touche. I just thought about Puff the Magic Dragon. But i hope they
wouldn't get a different impression on Rockin' in the Free World.
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> Yes, two different people will get two different interpretations of
lyrics. As long as one's imagination is in good working order,
instrumental music is equally as image motivating less the guiding
association of lyrics.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jacob Dobner
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:56 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Neil Young: The Missing Surf Years
>
>
> You do not get specific imagery you get imagery by association.
> Specific imagery is the lyrics telling you what is going on. Imagery
> by association(I think it is mood) is the whole surfing feel from the
> double pick, and being on a beach from steel guitar. It is likey two
> separate cultures would have a completely different interpretation for
> some surf songs on the imagery/mood they hear than the interpretation
> they had for a song with words.
>
> --- In , "Eric" <cirecc@y...> wrote:
> > What you get out of music is all subjective. How's that for an idea.
> > If all you get out of instrumental music is mood, then that is what
> > you get from it. I feel that instrumental music can give you
imagery,
> > but it is just more subtle than it is with lyrics. What it
seems that
> > you are saying is that no instrumental music has or will ever
achieve
> > the amount of imagery that a song with lyrics can. This would go for
> > every piece of instrumental classical music ever written too. The
> > imagery in a vocal song is usually very straight forward with less
> > room for interpretation (if any), and you are getting the imagery
> > because it is what is told to you. With instrumental music, you get
> > the imagery solely from the music itself, and it is more open for
> > interpretation. Would instumental music be able to make you
think of a
> > homeless crack whore with a baby, probably not, but if that's what a
> > song makes you think about, then it could I guess. My opinion on
> > instrumental music is that it can have great imagery, you just
have to
> > look for it, actually listen to the music, not just have it told to
> > you. Instrumental music can also give more than just a "simple
mood".
> > Again, musical interpretation is all subjective.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > There should be a Neil Young surf tribute album as well as an
> > instrumental album by the man himself.
> >
> > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> > <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> > I see a woman in the night
> > With a baby in her hand
> > Under an old street light
> > Near a garbage can
> > Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
> > She hates her life, and what she's done to it
> > There's one more kid that will never go to school
> > Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
> >
> > How is that for an idea.
> > The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can
have.
> > Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those go
> > beyond a simple mood.
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1136 (20050611) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
All of the points expressed here on this subject have been well
taken. But at some point we're just arguing apples and oranges.
It's like asking who was a better 'artist' Mozart or Shakespeare?
Now we're arguing what's a better art 'form'.
Now I personally usually like instrumental music. But for me,
that's not because I dislike being led by the imagery of words - its
just that most of it sucks. Furthermore, instrumental musicians seem
to me to hold themselves to a higher standard. Maybe its because
they feel like there is more on the line.
Dave
Yeah, wetreverb is better.
--- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
wrote:
> I have to put my two-cents in here. But first, this is Bruce D,
of Longboard Ranch. I have been a member under the ID:
wizzbangg2003 for some time, but just tried, on a whim, to see if
the user ID "wetreverb" was available on yahoo, and to my utter
surprise, it was!
>
> I think "wetreverb" is a much more descriptive User Name for me
than was "wizzbangg2003", so have made the changeover with all the
yahoo groups in which I've been a member.
>
> Now onto this thread:
>
> I have noticed that along with the educational "dumbing-down"
that's been happening in this country for many years, there's also
been a cultural dumbing-down to go along with it. How exactly did
people entertain themselves in the days before Movies, Television
and video games? They read books! Yes, they read books. Not comic
books where every scene was depicted, but books with pages full of
nothing but print.
>
> And what exactly did reading books do for them that Movies,
Television, Video Games and comic books have never done and never
will do?
>
> Reading, especially fiction, literally forced them to use their
imaginations! They had to create the picture images within their
own minds, of the story unfolding as they turned page after printed
page. Is that why people who read a lot are often more imaginative
than those whose world view is limited to what they see on TV and in
the Movies? I emphatically believe so.
>
> The same applies to music. I can't begin to count the times I've
listened to instrumental music, be it orchestral classical music,
jazz, swing, or instrumental rock, and had very vivid images in my
mind to accompany the music. And, I've never found that lyrics ever
provided me with as rich a tapestry of images, (because lyrics limit
the horizons of the listener's imagination) as what my imagination
could do with a really fine rock instrumental, such as "Journey To
The Stars" or "Apache" or "Ghost Riders In The Sky".
>
> Conversely to the listening experience, I've found that using my
imagination to visualize landscapes, seascapes, and things
happening, has been an invaluable tool in helping me to write
original instrumental songs. I couldn't have written most of our
better originals without that imagination working full-time, as I
tried different riffs and chords until I got what sounded just right
to go along with the imagery playing out in my mind.
>
> Fortunately, imagination, like a muscle, can be built and
developed. Listen to Link Wray's "Rumble", close your eyes, and let
your mind project a deadly encounter between knife and chain-
wielding gangs, in a dark inner-city alley. Listen to Jorgen Ingman
or The Ventures doing "Apache" and visualize a horde of ghostly
Native Americans in full warpaint, crying over what they lost to the
white man. Create the setting in your mind's eye, whether it be a
rocky mesa or the desert floor filled with Saguaro Cacti. Mood?
Sure every song has a mood, but to those blessed with an active
imagination, every song, including the instrumentals, has its own
story to tell as well.
>
> With all due respect to all concerned,
>
> Bruce D
>
> Eric <cirecc@y...> wrote:
> What you get out of music is all subjective. How's that for an
idea.
> If all you get out of instrumental music is mood, then that is what
> you get from it. I feel that instrumental music can give you
imagery,
> but it is just more subtle than it is with lyrics. What it seems
that
> you are saying is that no instrumental music has or will ever
achieve
> the amount of imagery that a song with lyrics can. This would go
for
> every piece of instrumental classical music ever written too. The
> imagery in a vocal song is usually very straight forward with less
> room for interpretation (if any), and you are getting the imagery
> because it is what is told to you. With instrumental music, you get
> the imagery solely from the music itself, and it is more open for
> interpretation. Would instumental music be able to make you think
of a
> homeless crack whore with a baby, probably not, but if that's what
a
> song makes you think about, then it could I guess. My opinion on
> instrumental music is that it can have great imagery, you just
have to
> look for it, actually listen to the music, not just have it told to
> you. Instrumental music can also give more than just a "simple
mood".
> Again, musical interpretation is all subjective.
>
> Eric
>
> There should be a Neil Young surf tribute album as well as an
> instrumental album by the man himself.
>
> --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> I see a woman in the night
> With a baby in her hand
> Under an old street light
> Near a garbage can
> Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
> She hates her life, and what she's done to it
> There's one more kid that will never go to school
> Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
>
> How is that for an idea.
> The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can
have.
> Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those
go
> beyond a simple mood.
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Discover Yahoo!
> Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend.
Check it out!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have to wonder if we instrumental music lovers naturally gravitated towards
this type of
music. I for one was never into lyrics, in fact I can't recall the entire lyrics
on my favorite
songs- ones that I've heard countless times since childhood and on the radio. I
think that
I'm so into the music, that I hear the melody of the singer, but don't make an
effort to suss
out the words too. And this isn't an indication of my inappreciation of words
in general,
I'm a huge reader, though not a big poetry fan. Just some thoughts....
Danny
--- In , "stratrhythm" <lawyerschroeder@s...>
wrote:
> All of the points expressed here on this subject have been well
> taken. But at some point we're just arguing apples and oranges.
> It's like asking who was a better 'artist' Mozart or Shakespeare?
> Now we're arguing what's a better art 'form'.
>
> Now I personally usually like instrumental music. But for me,
> that's not because I dislike being led by the imagery of words - its
> just that most of it sucks. Furthermore, instrumental musicians seem
> to me to hold themselves to a higher standard. Maybe its because
> they feel like there is more on the line.
>
> Dave
>
> Yeah, wetreverb is better.
>
>
>
> --- In , bruce duncan <wetreverb@y...>
> wrote:
> > I have to put my two-cents in here. But first, this is Bruce D,
> of Longboard Ranch. I have been a member under the ID:
> wizzbangg2003 for some time, but just tried, on a whim, to see if
> the user ID "wetreverb" was available on yahoo, and to my utter
> surprise, it was!
> >
> > I think "wetreverb" is a much more descriptive User Name for me
> than was "wizzbangg2003", so have made the changeover with all the
> yahoo groups in which I've been a member.
> >
> > Now onto this thread:
> >
> > I have noticed that along with the educational "dumbing-down"
> that's been happening in this country for many years, there's also
> been a cultural dumbing-down to go along with it. How exactly did
> people entertain themselves in the days before Movies, Television
> and video games? They read books! Yes, they read books. Not comic
> books where every scene was depicted, but books with pages full of
> nothing but print.
> >
> > And what exactly did reading books do for them that Movies,
> Television, Video Games and comic books have never done and never
> will do?
> >
> > Reading, especially fiction, literally forced them to use their
> imaginations! They had to create the picture images within their
> own minds, of the story unfolding as they turned page after printed
> page. Is that why people who read a lot are often more imaginative
> than those whose world view is limited to what they see on TV and in
> the Movies? I emphatically believe so.
> >
> > The same applies to music. I can't begin to count the times I've
> listened to instrumental music, be it orchestral classical music,
> jazz, swing, or instrumental rock, and had very vivid images in my
> mind to accompany the music. And, I've never found that lyrics ever
> provided me with as rich a tapestry of images, (because lyrics limit
> the horizons of the listener's imagination) as what my imagination
> could do with a really fine rock instrumental, such as "Journey To
> The Stars" or "Apache" or "Ghost Riders In The Sky".
> >
> > Conversely to the listening experience, I've found that using my
> imagination to visualize landscapes, seascapes, and things
> happening, has been an invaluable tool in helping me to write
> original instrumental songs. I couldn't have written most of our
> better originals without that imagination working full-time, as I
> tried different riffs and chords until I got what sounded just right
> to go along with the imagery playing out in my mind.
> >
> > Fortunately, imagination, like a muscle, can be built and
> developed. Listen to Link Wray's "Rumble", close your eyes, and let
> your mind project a deadly encounter between knife and chain-
> wielding gangs, in a dark inner-city alley. Listen to Jorgen Ingman
> or The Ventures doing "Apache" and visualize a horde of ghostly
> Native Americans in full warpaint, crying over what they lost to the
> white man. Create the setting in your mind's eye, whether it be a
> rocky mesa or the desert floor filled with Saguaro Cacti. Mood?
> Sure every song has a mood, but to those blessed with an active
> imagination, every song, including the instrumentals, has its own
> story to tell as well.
> >
> > With all due respect to all concerned,
> >
> > Bruce D
> >
> > Eric <cirecc@y...> wrote:
> > What you get out of music is all subjective. How's that for an
> idea.
> > If all you get out of instrumental music is mood, then that is what
> > you get from it. I feel that instrumental music can give you
> imagery,
> > but it is just more subtle than it is with lyrics. What it seems
> that
> > you are saying is that no instrumental music has or will ever
> achieve
> > the amount of imagery that a song with lyrics can. This would go
> for
> > every piece of instrumental classical music ever written too. The
> > imagery in a vocal song is usually very straight forward with less
> > room for interpretation (if any), and you are getting the imagery
> > because it is what is told to you. With instrumental music, you get
> > the imagery solely from the music itself, and it is more open for
> > interpretation. Would instumental music be able to make you think
> of a
> > homeless crack whore with a baby, probably not, but if that's what
> a
> > song makes you think about, then it could I guess. My opinion on
> > instrumental music is that it can have great imagery, you just
> have to
> > look for it, actually listen to the music, not just have it told to
> > you. Instrumental music can also give more than just a "simple
> mood".
> > Again, musical interpretation is all subjective.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > There should be a Neil Young surf tribute album as well as an
> > instrumental album by the man himself.
> >
> > --- In , "Jacob Dobner"
> > <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> > I see a woman in the night
> > With a baby in her hand
> > Under an old street light
> > Near a garbage can
> > Now she puts the kid away, and she's gone to get a hit
> > She hates her life, and what she's done to it
> > There's one more kid that will never go to school
> > Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
> >
> > How is that for an idea.
> > The one thing surf can never replicate is the imagery lyrics can
> have.
> > Sure it can give you a great feel for mood, but lyrics like those
> go
> > beyond a simple mood.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Discover Yahoo!
> > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend.
> Check it out!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
