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I have a Jazzmaster, and a Jag, that both sound great for surf. I
have several strats that I can't get to sound the way I'd like. I'd
like to get the "classic" strat surf tone. I've heard Ivans tone,
and that is what I'm looking for. These are my strats....
1. MIJ 62 reissue strat - currently has Fender Custom Shop 54's in it.
2. Built it myself 62 reissue strat, has 57-62 reissue PU's.
Both have pretty heavy strings.
Any suggestions? Strings? S.D. Antiquity Surfer PU's?
Thanks
Chris
Blame this tone quest on D.D. It happens every year after I see him
play!
--- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> I have a Jazzmaster, and a Jag, that both sound great for surf. I
> have several strats that I can't get to sound the way I'd like. I'd
> like to get the "classic" strat surf tone. I've heard Ivans tone,
> and that is what I'm looking for.
Thanks, Chris!
> These are my strats....
> 1. MIJ 62 reissue strat - currently has Fender Custom Shop 54's in
it.
> 2. Built it myself 62 reissue strat, has 57-62 reissue PU's.
Why don't you put the '57/'62 pickups into the MIJ Strat? I've heard
bad things about CS54s.
> Both have pretty heavy strings.
> Any suggestions? Strings? S.D. Antiquity Surfer PU's?
Definitely try Roto Purples (12-54). The rest is the combination of
reverb unit and amp, and more importantly, your fingers and your
heart. With the last one, you're kind on your own.
Good luck!
Ivan
Thanks Ivan for the advice. I am stringing up the roto-purples
tonight. A couple other questions for you....
1. Do you think a steel trem block would help tone?
2. Amp settings. I have the standard "surf" kit.... Showman and
reverb tank. I notice that I have to turn the reverb down a lot
when I switch to a strat from a jag or jm. Whay settings should i
try?
Chris
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
> --- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> > I have a Jazzmaster, and a Jag, that both sound great for
surf. I
> > have several strats that I can't get to sound the way I'd like.
I'd
> > like to get the "classic" strat surf tone. I've heard Ivans
tone,
> > and that is what I'm looking for.
>
> Thanks, Chris!
>
> > These are my strats....
> > 1. MIJ 62 reissue strat - currently has Fender Custom Shop 54's
in
> it.
> > 2. Built it myself 62 reissue strat, has 57-62 reissue PU's.
>
> Why don't you put the '57/'62 pickups into the MIJ Strat? I've
heard
> bad things about CS54s.
>
> > Both have pretty heavy strings.
> > Any suggestions? Strings? S.D. Antiquity Surfer PU's?
>
> Definitely try Roto Purples (12-54). The rest is the combination
of
> reverb unit and amp, and more importantly, your fingers and your
> heart. With the last one, you're kind on your own.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Ivan
--- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> Thanks Ivan for the advice. I am stringing up the roto-purples
> tonight.
So, what do you think?
> A couple other questions for you....
> 1. Do you think a steel trem block would help tone?
Have no idea. What kind of trem block is standard on US-made vintage
reissues? What kind of block was on the original strats?
> 2. Amp settings. I have the standard "surf" kit.... Showman and
> reverb tank. I notice that I have to turn the reverb down a lot
> when I switch to a strat from a jag or jm. Whay settings should i
> try?
I don't think I can help you with the Showman, since I've never owned
one. As far as the reverb tank, I think the people on this list well
established by now that they're all a bit different. But I don't
understand why you feel you have to turn down the reverb when playing
with a Strat? Does it get too trebly? I always play around 6-5-6 or
6-6-6, sometimes going up to 7-7-6. I find there's a tradeoff
between the nice drippy sound when playing softer and palm-muting a
lot and the fat-treble sound when doing the DD-style stuff.
Generally, I want to play very aggressively with a Strat, and that
means that the reverb has to be lower than where I think it sounds
good when palm-muting and playing something like Penetration - the
reason being is that all that spiky, trebly reverb just gets to be
too much on high strings when double-picking and hitting the strings
hard. Is that what you mean?
Also, I'd recommend trying different pickup settings. I've been
playing on the middle pickup a lot lately. It gives you some of the
fatness of the neck (and tames down the treble quite a bit) while at
the same time still keeping some aggression of the bridge pickup.
Having said that, I must admit that during the Space Cossacks days I
never used the middle pickup - the great majority of was the bridge
pickup.
I hope some of that helps.
Best,
Ivan
I've had some direct experience, and the audal reactions from my bandmates, so
I'll throw in my two-cents' worth here:
The Callaham forged steel trem-block is the closest block on the planet to the
original design 1954 trem block as spec'ed by Leo himself. NONE of the recent
day Fenders, US made or otherwise, have a block that is equal to this unit you
can buy from Callaham for $55.
The Squiers all use cast zinc blocks with virtually no mass where the strings
enter the block.
Likewise, the Mexis use cast zinc blocks.
The American Standard and American Deluxe Series use cast steel, not forged. Yes
it makes a difference! Worse, the Fender blocks are coated with a metallicized
plastic of some sort, which cannot have a solitary single acoustic benefit, over
leaving the metal bare.
Finally, the strings load into all Squier and Fender blocks, with the ball-ends
sunk about 2" below the bottom-facing end of the block. The Callaham block, has
the holes made so the ball-ends are stopped and retained only 1/8" into the
block, which gives all that mass of steel to resonate between string-end and
bridge, and you better believe that has a very noticeable impact on sustain and
tonal quality!
I have an original '63 Fender Reverb Unit, formerly owned by Jon & The
Nightriders, and it's been lovingly maintained and gone over periodically to
assure optimum operation. At a recent gig, Marty Tippens took my place as Lead
Guitar, on Walk Don't Run and Hawaii Five-0. I had my tank controls set at
5-5-5 and Marty was playing my modified Jagmaster, on the middle, "strat"
pickup, with D'Addario 13-56 strings. All going into my Silverface Deluxe
Reverb amp on the "Normal Channel". It sounded totally surfed-out to my ear,
sitting for the first time, in the audience, and hearing someone else playing on
my rig!
Bruce D
ipongrac <> wrote:
--- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> Thanks Ivan for the advice. I am stringing up the roto-purples
> tonight.
So, what do you think?
> A couple other questions for you....
> 1. Do you think a steel trem block would help tone?
Have no idea. What kind of trem block is standard on US-made vintage
reissues? What kind of block was on the original strats?
> 2. Amp settings. I have the standard "surf" kit.... Showman and
> reverb tank. I notice that I have to turn the reverb down a lot
> when I switch to a strat from a jag or jm. Whay settings should i
> try?
I don't think I can help you with the Showman, since I've never owned
one. As far as the reverb tank, I think the people on this list well
established by now that they're all a bit different. But I don't
understand why you feel you have to turn down the reverb when playing
with a Strat? Does it get too trebly? I always play around 6-5-6 or
6-6-6, sometimes going up to 7-7-6. I find there's a tradeoff
between the nice drippy sound when playing softer and palm-muting a
lot and the fat-treble sound when doing the DD-style stuff.
Generally, I want to play very aggressively with a Strat, and that
means that the reverb has to be lower than where I think it sounds
good when palm-muting and playing something like Penetration - the
reason being is that all that spiky, trebly reverb just gets to be
too much on high strings when double-picking and hitting the strings
hard. Is that what you mean?
Also, I'd recommend trying different pickup settings. I've been
playing on the middle pickup a lot lately. It gives you some of the
fatness of the neck (and tames down the treble quite a bit) while at
the same time still keeping some aggression of the bridge pickup.
Having said that, I must admit that during the Space Cossacks days I
never used the middle pickup - the great majority of was the bridge
pickup.
I hope some of that helps.
Best,
Ivan
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Generally, I want to play very aggressively with a Strat, and that
> means that the reverb has to be lower than where I think it sounds
> good when palm-muting and playing something like Penetration - the
> reason being is that all that spiky, trebly reverb just gets to be
> too much on high strings when double-picking and hitting the
strings"
I think you nailed it, Ivan. Too much reverb with a strat makes
the sound all washed out, no definition to the notes. Too much
sustain interacting with the reverb? Bolder Bob says Jazzmasters
make good surf guitars because they are "plinky" letting the reverb
be the sustaining sound......
I did put on some new Roto's, 13's, and it may be the placebo
effect, But I think they sound better than the previous strings I
used. they do seem to be easier on my fingers, too! Plus, it
helps knowing they are the "official strings of choice" of The
Madeira/Space Cossacks.
Chris
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
> --- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> > Thanks Ivan for the advice. I am stringing up the roto-purples
> > tonight.
>
> So, what do you think?
>
> > A couple other questions for you....
> > 1. Do you think a steel trem block would help tone?
>
> Have no idea. What kind of trem block is standard on US-made
vintage
> reissues? What kind of block was on the original strats?
>
> > 2. Amp settings. I have the standard "surf" kit.... Showman
and
> > reverb tank. I notice that I have to turn the reverb down a lot
> > when I switch to a strat from a jag or jm. Whay settings should
i
> > try?
>
> I don't think I can help you with the Showman, since I've never
owned
> one. As far as the reverb tank, I think the people on this list
well
> established by now that they're all a bit different. But I don't
> understand why you feel you have to turn down the reverb when
playing
> with a Strat? Does it get too trebly? I always play around 6-5-6
or
> 6-6-6, sometimes going up to 7-7-6. I find there's a tradeoff
> between the nice drippy sound when playing softer and palm-muting
a
> lot and the fat-treble sound when doing the DD-style stuff.
> Generally, I want to play very aggressively with a Strat, and that
> means that the reverb has to be lower than where I think it sounds
> good when palm-muting and playing something like Penetration - the
> reason being is that all that spiky, trebly reverb just gets to be
> too much on high strings when double-picking and hitting the
strings
> hard. Is that what you mean?
>
> Also, I'd recommend trying different pickup settings. I've been
> playing on the middle pickup a lot lately. It gives you some of
the
> fatness of the neck (and tames down the treble quite a bit) while
at
> the same time still keeping some aggression of the bridge pickup.
>
> Having said that, I must admit that during the Space Cossacks days
I
> never used the middle pickup - the great majority of was the
bridge
> pickup.
>
> I hope some of that helps.
> Best,
> Ivan
--- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> "Generally, I want to play very aggressively with a Strat, and
that
> > means that the reverb has to be lower than where I think it
sounds
> > good when palm-muting and playing something like Penetration -
the
> > reason being is that all that spiky, trebly reverb just gets to
be
> > too much on high strings when double-picking and hitting the
> strings"
>
> I think you nailed it, Ivan. Too much reverb with a strat makes
> the sound all washed out, no definition to the notes.
But isn't that also the case with a Jazzmaster and Jaguar and any
other guitar, for that matter? I find that the good surf sound to
play the Astronauts isn't really a good surf sound to play Dick
Dale. The right amount of 'booch' when palm-muting is way too much
when doing full-on double-picking, both as far as reverb as well as
treble. So, I don't think it's a matter of guitar, but rather
different styles, and how each guitar leads one to play. That's what
I meant when I said that I tend to play more aggressively on a Strat
than a Jazzmaster, and thus have to lower the reverb. But I still
keep the reverb pretty damn high, and it sounds great to me!
> Too much
> sustain interacting with the reverb? Bolder Bob says Jazzmasters
> make good surf guitars because they are "plinky" letting the
> reverb be the sustaining sound......
I've heard that theory before. I'm not sure I buy it. Sustain isn't
really a big thing with surf guitar. I mean, how often do surf
guitarists really rely on sustain? We're either palm-muting (cutting
off the length of the notes) or double-picking (not giving the notes
a chance to ring out). Obviously, that's an overgeneralization, but
I ultimately I think the main difference is that people tend to
attack a Strat with more gusto than the offsets. Probably due to the
bridge designs - the offsets' bridges don't really install confidence
that if you hit the shit out of a string, the string will stay in
place! There are certainly exceptions to this, mind you.
Anyway, just a few thoughts. Totally speculating...
> I did put on some new Roto's, 13's, and it may be the placebo
> effect, But I think they sound better than the previous strings I
> used. they do seem to be easier on my fingers, too!
Very cool!
> Plus, it
> helps knowing they are the "official strings of choice" of The
> Madeira/Space Cossacks.
Well, just for me - Patrick O'Connor and Mark English both use more
mainstream strings. And I only started using the Rotos a couple of
years ago, long after the Cossacks came to an end.
Best,
Ivan
