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--- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> > Lot of surf guys don't care much for SRV
> So, what's wrong with SRV? Why don't we surf guys like him?
Well, I might have overgeneralized. I haven't been hearing much about
SRV from surf people for a while. I guess this statement is based on
things I read on Cowabunga years ago, when there were a lot of very
trad-surf types on there. So, to answer your question, I think there
are two reasons why some surf people don't like SRV: 1) SRV definitely
changed and 'updated' blues music, which I think a lot of trad-surf
guys don't like since their tastes also tend more towards traditional
blues - he was definitely very bombastic and over-the-top which people
that appreciate more traditional, subtler blues don't like, I think;
2) I'm pulling this one totally out of my ass, but go with me: surf
music is 'cool' music, in a sense that it's not about overt emoting,
but rather it's about white guys looking calm and cool and like
they're having the time of their life as they're ripping out a bunch
of clean licks - well, SRV is the antithesis to that - he was
completely about 'hot' overemoting! It was all about 'taking-a-
painful-dump-while-bending-a-note' faces, about destroying yourself
with addictions of various kind (whether wine, drugs or women), about
wearing your pain on your sleeve, and completely devoid of fun or
irony - again, a total opposite of much surf music which is completely
about fun and irony, and certainly not about pain or addictions of any
sort (well, maybe a slight addiction to reverb). This is probably the
basic tension between blues and surf music, and why blues is often
considered to somehow be authentic while surf fake. Most people think
of pain as the only valid, authentic emotion, while fun and irony
don't qualify.
Speaking for myself, as a white, heavily-educated, middle-class guy,
blues does nothing for me. I have little pain, and even less need to
wear the little I have on my sleeve. So, blues never appealed to me.
Even when it's happy. As far as SRV, well, the guy was a monster
technician and I occasionally liked to listen and watch him for that
reason. His tone was also very big, though not necessarily to my
taste, but not bad. I even saw him live once, back in the summer
of '89, with the Stray Cats opening - I enjoyed the Stray Cats more.
> know I might be in the minority, but he's one of the reasons I play
> guitar, and i like the SRV DD version of Pipeline. I know Aqua
> Bill will harrass me for that last part.....
Well, I guess 'like' is a relative term here - do you like it better
than the original? Do you like it better than the Lively Ones
version, for example? "Pipeline" is such an amazing and powerful song
that it's really hard to screw it up, and I think DD/SRV do a decent
job with it - but it's certainly not doing anything new with it or
playing it in any kind of a transcendental way.
Ivan
The whole SRV story is one filled with sadness and tragedy. Every
interview I've read or heard, he comes off like the nicest sweetest
human being you're going to find. I think "surf" people may have
more of a problem with what SRV has spawned off then with the actual
man himself. I certainly dislike all these blues musicians you see
in the Chicago bars who play Stratocasters with overly wound hot
pickups into easily broken up Fender amps...oh and don't forget your
ts9 tube screamer. Like Ivan says, there seems to be more and more
of the "I'm about to blow a load" making of faces on white blues
guitarsists.
I love the blues, and that's where I started on guitar. I come from
a VERY well off neighborhood in Chicago. My highschool was actually
the one brought to national attention for the hazing event a few
years ago. Not a very tough life, until recently, and oddly enough
when I should have been playing the blues I got deeply into
emotionless surf music! The greatest blues band IMO would be Paul
Butterfield's first line up. You had some well off Chicago white
boys playing the blues with legendary black blues artists. Mike
Bloomfield was raised in a very white/jewish upperclass suburb of
Chicago, and he would have inherted millions. I believe Mike could
have been the greatest white blues guitarist.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
> --- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> > > Lot of surf guys don't care much for SRV
>
> > So, what's wrong with SRV? Why don't we surf guys like
him?
>
> Well, I might have overgeneralized. I haven't been hearing much
about
> SRV from surf people for a while. I guess this statement is based
on
> things I read on Cowabunga years ago, when there were a lot of
very
> trad-surf types on there. So, to answer your question, I think
there
> are two reasons why some surf people don't like SRV: 1) SRV
definitely
> changed and 'updated' blues music, which I think a lot of trad-
surf
> guys don't like since their tastes also tend more towards
traditional
> blues - he was definitely very bombastic and over-the-top which
people
> that appreciate more traditional, subtler blues don't like, I
think;
> 2) I'm pulling this one totally out of my ass, but go with me:
surf
> music is 'cool' music, in a sense that it's not about overt
emoting,
> but rather it's about white guys looking calm and cool and like
> they're having the time of their life as they're ripping out a
bunch
> of clean licks - well, SRV is the antithesis to that - he was
> completely about 'hot' overemoting! It was all about 'taking-a-
> painful-dump-while-bending-a-note' faces, about destroying
yourself
> with addictions of various kind (whether wine, drugs or women),
about
> wearing your pain on your sleeve, and completely devoid of fun or
> irony - again, a total opposite of much surf music which is
completely
> about fun and irony, and certainly not about pain or addictions of
any
> sort (well, maybe a slight addiction to reverb). This is probably
the
> basic tension between blues and surf music, and why blues is often
> considered to somehow be authentic while surf fake. Most people
think
> of pain as the only valid, authentic emotion, while fun and irony
> don't qualify.
>
> Speaking for myself, as a white, heavily-educated, middle-class
guy,
> blues does nothing for me. I have little pain, and even less need
to
> wear the little I have on my sleeve. So, blues never appealed to
me.
> Even when it's happy. As far as SRV, well, the guy was a monster
> technician and I occasionally liked to listen and watch him for
that
> reason. His tone was also very big, though not necessarily to my
> taste, but not bad. I even saw him live once, back in the summer
> of '89, with the Stray Cats opening - I enjoyed the Stray Cats
more.
>
> > know I might be in the minority, but he's one of the reasons I
play
> > guitar, and i like the SRV DD version of Pipeline. I know Aqua
> > Bill will harrass me for that last part.....
>
> Well, I guess 'like' is a relative term here - do you like it
better
> than the original? Do you like it better than the Lively Ones
> version, for example? "Pipeline" is such an amazing and powerful
song
> that it's really hard to screw it up, and I think DD/SRV do a
decent
> job with it - but it's certainly not doing anything new with it or
> playing it in any kind of a transcendental way.
>
> Ivan
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
Well, I guess 'like' is a relative term here - do you like it better
> than the original? Do you like it better than the Lively Ones
> version, for example?
No, I don't like it more, I just like it. I like lots of
versions of "pipeline". One of my favorite things about surf music
is the idea that not every song a band plays has to be an original.
I like hearing "the classics" done by other bands. I like hearing
other peoples interpretation of songs that I know really well.
This next part is hard to explain.... I like music that I can
follow musically... I don't like songs that confuse me musically.
I think thats one reason why I like surf so much. I can follow the
song musically. It doesn't confuse me. I remember listening to a
Steve Vai cd, and getting really confused as to why it sounded like
it did, it didn't make sense to me musically, it just sounded like
noise.
So, that may be why I like "cover" versions of songs. I can
follow it, but also appreciate the differences between the
versions. At the time, the SRV D.D. version of Pipeline sounded
really huge, and different from anything else I'd heard. I was
more into SRV than D.D., but that song changed that.
I agree, the blues doesnt do it for me. I never thought of SRV
as a blues player, I thought he was a blues "influenced" rock and
roll guy. Kinda like a modern Chuck Berry. I really dig his up-tempo
songs, and watching him live, even on tape really blows me away.
It's like he was born to play the guitar. He had real power when he
played, similiar to D.D., he commanded attention.
Chris
> --- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> > > Lot of surf guys don't care much for SRV
>
> > So, what's wrong with SRV? Why don't we surf guys like
him?
>
> Well, I might have overgeneralized. I haven't been hearing much
about
> SRV from surf people for a while. I guess this statement is based
on
> things I read on Cowabunga years ago, when there were a lot of
very
> trad-surf types on there. So, to answer your question, I think
there
> are two reasons why some surf people don't like SRV: 1) SRV
definitely
> changed and 'updated' blues music, which I think a lot of trad-
surf
> guys don't like since their tastes also tend more towards
traditional
> blues - he was definitely very bombastic and over-the-top which
people
> that appreciate more traditional, subtler blues don't like, I
think;
> 2) I'm pulling this one totally out of my ass, but go with me:
surf
> music is 'cool' music, in a sense that it's not about overt
emoting,
> but rather it's about white guys looking calm and cool and like
> they're having the time of their life as they're ripping out a
bunch
> of clean licks - well, SRV is the antithesis to that - he was
> completely about 'hot' overemoting! It was all about 'taking-a-
> painful-dump-while-bending-a-note' faces, about destroying
yourself
> with addictions of various kind (whether wine, drugs or women),
about
> wearing your pain on your sleeve, and completely devoid of fun or
> irony - again, a total opposite of much surf music which is
completely
> about fun and irony, and certainly not about pain or addictions of
any
> sort (well, maybe a slight addiction to reverb). This is probably
the
> basic tension between blues and surf music, and why blues is often
> considered to somehow be authentic while surf fake. Most people
think
> of pain as the only valid, authentic emotion, while fun and irony
> don't qualify.
>
> Speaking for myself, as a white, heavily-educated, middle-class
guy,
> blues does nothing for me. I have little pain, and even less need
to
> wear the little I have on my sleeve. So, blues never appealed to
me.
> Even when it's happy. As far as SRV, well, the guy was a monster
> technician and I occasionally liked to listen and watch him for
that
> reason. His tone was also very big, though not necessarily to my
> taste, but not bad. I even saw him live once, back in the summer
> of '89, with the Stray Cats opening - I enjoyed the Stray Cats
more.
>
> > know I might be in the minority, but he's one of the reasons I
play
> > guitar, and i like the SRV DD version of Pipeline. I know Aqua
> > Bill will harrass me for that last part.....
>
> Well, I guess 'like' is a relative term here - do you like it
better
> than the original? Do you like it better than the Lively Ones
> version, for example? "Pipeline" is such an amazing and powerful
song
> that it's really hard to screw it up, and I think DD/SRV do a
decent
> job with it - but it's certainly not doing anything new with it or
> playing it in any kind of a transcendental way.
>
> Ivan
I was gonna go on and agree with Bill about all those lame guitarists
trying to copy the SRV sound and how such players miss the point that
originality is everything. Then I realized that so many of us are
into cop'ing that perfect Fender+Tank+Showman tone that we've heard
before on the old surf records. Dooogh!
-Marty
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
... I think "surf" people may have
> more of a problem with what SRV has spawned off then with the
actual
> man himself. I certainly dislike all these blues musicians you see
> in the Chicago bars who play Stratocasters with overly wound hot
> pickups into easily broken up Fender amps...oh and don't forget
your
> ts9 tube screamer. Like Ivan says, there seems to be more and more
> of the "I'm about to blow a load" making of faces on white blues
> guitarsists.
>
> I love the blues, and that's where I started on guitar. I come
from
> a VERY well off neighborhood in Chicago. My highschool was
actually
> the one brought to national attention for the hazing event a few
> years ago. Not a very tough life, until recently, and oddly enough
> when I should have been playing the blues I got deeply into
> emotionless surf music! The greatest blues band IMO would be Paul
> Butterfield's first line up. You had some well off Chicago white
> boys playing the blues with legendary black blues artists. Mike
> Bloomfield was raised in a very white/jewish upperclass suburb of
> Chicago, and he would have inherted millions. I believe Mike could
> have been the greatest white blues guitarist.
>
> Bill
>
> www.reluctantaquanauts.com
>
> --- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
> wrote:
> > --- In , "Chris" <chris@b...> wrote:
> > > > Lot of surf guys don't care much for SRV
> >
> > > So, what's wrong with SRV? Why don't we surf guys like
> him?
> >
> > Well, I might have overgeneralized. I haven't been hearing much
> about
> > SRV from surf people for a while. I guess this statement is
based
> on
> > things I read on Cowabunga years ago, when there were a lot of
> very
> > trad-surf types on there. So, to answer your question, I think
> there
> > are two reasons why some surf people don't like SRV: 1) SRV
> definitely
> > changed and 'updated' blues music, which I think a lot of trad-
> surf
> > guys don't like since their tastes also tend more towards
> traditional
> > blues - he was definitely very bombastic and over-the-top which
> people
> > that appreciate more traditional, subtler blues don't like, I
> think;
> > 2) I'm pulling this one totally out of my ass, but go with me:
> surf
> > music is 'cool' music, in a sense that it's not about overt
> emoting,
> > but rather it's about white guys looking calm and cool and like
> > they're having the time of their life as they're ripping out a
> bunch
> > of clean licks - well, SRV is the antithesis to that - he was
> > completely about 'hot' overemoting! It was all about 'taking-a-
> > painful-dump-while-bending-a-note' faces, about destroying
> yourself
> > with addictions of various kind (whether wine, drugs or women),
> about
> > wearing your pain on your sleeve, and completely devoid of fun or
> > irony - again, a total opposite of much surf music which is
> completely
> > about fun and irony, and certainly not about pain or addictions
of
> any
> > sort (well, maybe a slight addiction to reverb). This is
probably
> the
> > basic tension between blues and surf music, and why blues is
often
> > considered to somehow be authentic while surf fake. Most people
> think
> > of pain as the only valid, authentic emotion, while fun and irony
> > don't qualify.
> >
> > Speaking for myself, as a white, heavily-educated, middle-class
> guy,
> > blues does nothing for me. I have little pain, and even less
need
> to
> > wear the little I have on my sleeve. So, blues never appealed to
> me.
> > Even when it's happy. As far as SRV, well, the guy was a monster
> > technician and I occasionally liked to listen and watch him for
> that
> > reason. His tone was also very big, though not necessarily to my
> > taste, but not bad. I even saw him live once, back in the summer
> > of '89, with the Stray Cats opening - I enjoyed the Stray Cats
> more.
> >
> > > know I might be in the minority, but he's one of the reasons I
> play
> > > guitar, and i like the SRV DD version of Pipeline. I know
Aqua
> > > Bill will harrass me for that last part.....
> >
> > Well, I guess 'like' is a relative term here - do you like it
> better
> > than the original? Do you like it better than the Lively Ones
> > version, for example? "Pipeline" is such an amazing and powerful
> song
> > that it's really hard to screw it up, and I think DD/SRV do a
> decent
> > job with it - but it's certainly not doing anything new with it
or
> > playing it in any kind of a transcendental way.
> >
> > Ivan
--- In , "supertwangreverb"
<supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
> I think "surf" people may have
> more of a problem with what SRV has spawned off then with the actual
> man himself. I certainly dislike all these blues musicians you see
> in the Chicago bars who play Stratocasters with overly wound hot
> pickups into easily broken up Fender amps...oh and don't forget your
> ts9 tube screamer. Like Ivan says, there seems to be more and more
> of the "I'm about to blow a load" making of faces on white blues
> guitarsists.
>
I'd have to agree there. I did admire SRV for his emotive capability
and incredible hand strength. But he was really nothing more than a
fusion of Albert King and Jimi Hendrix. He didn't really push the
technical envelope at all; by '80s standards, his playing was very
primitive, two-fingered stuff. But he did create a broader interest
in blues, mostly due to his exciting, incendiary live performances.
I'm no fan of the wake of guitarists who are attempting to follow in
his footsteps. They all tend to steal his licks, tone, and stage
personna (don't forget the trademark cowboy hat!), and in doing so,
they just sound like bad copies.
