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Before there was Surf Guitar there
was Instrumental Guitar, right?
I think the spark for instrumental guitar was
session guitarists in the 50's. Session guitarists are a weird breed.
They have to be brilliant, able to play almost any style.
But normally, they have to fit in around the edges of other
peoples music, in well defined styles.
I think some of them got tired of sitting in the Shadows
of singers,
and Ventured out into new territory by blending various
elements from the different styles they had to know for
session work: jazz, r&b, country, maybe even pseudo flamenco.
And figured, correctly that if it had a driving beat it would sell.
And they could bask in the limelight for a change.
But these guys were chameleons, eclectic to the max...
category busters.
They didn't <want> to be pinned down to one style-
that would've been boring.
I think surf happened when So Cal kids picked out a subset
of the instro guitar repetoire that they thought was cool...
only kids can define what is cool for their generation...
and kids like extreme... like extreme reverb, and louder drums...
and just louder everything.
Anyway, the tunes from the earlier instro guitarists that they thought
were cool became the patterns for new tunes in what was now
a distinct style. Initially, simpler was better.
More complexity came as the teen bands chops improved,
Even in this list, I can feel the tension between
the Eclecticism (openmindedness) inherited from Instro Guitar
and the narrowness of the Coolness and/or Tradition factors.
Both have something to contribute...
The narrowness factors help define the style,
the Eclectics breathe new life into it.
But those who lean one way or the other may have
a hard time getting along...
Michael
--- In , Michael S Springer
<springerms@j...> wrote:
> Before there was Surf Guitar there
> was Instrumental Guitar, right?
>
> I think the spark for instrumental guitar was
> session guitarists in the 50's. Session guitarists are a weird
breed.
> They have to be brilliant, able to play almost any style.
> But normally, they have to fit in around the edges of other
> peoples music, in well defined styles.
>
> I think some of them got tired of sitting in the Shadows
> of singers,
> and Ventured out into new territory by blending various
> elements from the different styles they had to know for
> session work: jazz, r&b, country, maybe even pseudo flamenco.
> And figured, correctly that if it had a driving beat it would sell.
> And they could bask in the limelight for a change.
> But these guys were chameleons, eclectic to the max...
> category busters.
> They didn't <want> to be pinned down to one style-
> that would've been boring.
>
> I think surf happened when So Cal kids picked out a subset
> of the instro guitar repetoire that they thought was cool...
> only kids can define what is cool for their generation...
> and kids like extreme... like extreme reverb, and louder drums...
> and just louder everything.
> Anyway, the tunes from the earlier instro guitarists that they
thought
> were cool became the patterns for new tunes in what was now
> a distinct style. Initially, simpler was better.
> More complexity came as the teen bands chops improved,
>
>
> Even in this list, I can feel the tension between
> the Eclecticism (openmindedness) inherited from Instro Guitar
> and the narrowness of the Coolness and/or Tradition factors.
> Both have something to contribute...
> The narrowness factors help define the style,
> the Eclectics breathe new life into it.
> But those who lean one way or the other may have
> a hard time getting along...
>
> Michael
Michael,
That's a great quick history/summation. Wanna ask you something.
My Program Director Dan Coleman for my internet radio show 'Twang
Shebang' is putting together another 'Instro' show aimed at the
children's market....and would love to read this post on the show to
help kids understand where surf music got it start. Are you OK with
that?
Unsteady Freddie
A couple of points... the way I see it
Surf happened before the reverb, before the loud amps.
They both came along later in the same year (61). What
kids adopted in the beginning was instrumentals
persay. They named it surf before the style we
recognize evolved.
Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the Hurricanes,
but also west coast jazz, mariachi, Latin, country,
Mediterranean, exotica, big band, etc. Some were more
direct than others, but thesed were on the radio and
in the homes the initiators came from.
There were guitar instrumentals from bands from the
beginning, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Ike Turner, and
later Link Wray, Johnny and the Hurricanes, the
Fireballs, and hundreds of others. Studio guitarists
contributed too, but it's not likely they were the
spark. Micky Baker might be an influence, and Al
Casey, who developed the big guitar sound of Duane
Eddy and Jody Reynolds.
Phil Dirt
--- Michael S Springer <> wrote:
Before there was Surf Guitar there
was Instrumental Guitar, right?
I think the spark for instrumental guitar was
session guitarists in the 50's. Session guitarists
are a weird breed.
They have to be brilliant, able to play almost any
style.
But normally, they have to fit in around the edges of
other
peoples music, in well defined styles.
I think some of them got tired of sitting in the
Shadows
of singers,
and Ventured out into new territory by blending
various
elements from the different styles they had to know
for
session work: jazz, r&b, country, maybe even pseudo
flamenco.
And figured, correctly that if it had a driving beat
it would sell.
And they could bask in the limelight for a change.
But these guys were chameleons, eclectic to the max...
category busters.
They didn't <want> to be pinned down to one style-
that would've been boring.
I think surf happened when So Cal kids picked out a
subset
of the instro guitar repetoire that they thought was
cool...
only kids can define what is cool for their
generation...
and kids like extreme... like extreme reverb, and
louder drums...
and just louder everything.
Anyway, the tunes from the earlier instro guitarists
that they thought
were cool became the patterns for new tunes in what
was now
a distinct style. Initially, simpler was better.
More complexity came as the teen bands chops improved,
Even in this list, I can feel the tension between
the Eclecticism (openmindedness) inherited from Instro
Guitar
and the narrowness of the Coolness and/or Tradition
factors.
Both have something to contribute...
The narrowness factors help define the style,
the Eclectics breathe new life into it.
But those who lean one way or the other may have
a hard time getting along...
Michael
.
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=====
Although not related musically to Surf, another angle of influence
rarely discussed is that at the time, the market in general was a LOT
more "open" to instrumental-only music. So the timing and conditions for
the "acceptance" of Surf were ready-made. Along with the classic
crooners, the parents of would-be Surf kids were listening to the
exotica/orchestras of the day - from Denny to Kostelanetz. Some like
Percy Faith even had pop hits, e.g. Theme From A Summer Place - which
gets covered by Surf/Instro artists even today.
And after Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry, the regular parade of
guitar-bearing Rock n Rollers on Ed Sullivan TV didn't hurt the
inspirations of "all you youngsters", I'm sure.
Phil's list is probably the representative "primordial stew" of Surf ;-)
BW Dave
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
[mailto:]
>On Behalf Of Phil Dirt
>Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:45 AM
>To:
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Who Influenced the Influencers?
>
>
>A couple of points... the way I see it
>
>Surf happened before the reverb, before the loud amps.
>They both came along later in the same year (61). What
>kids adopted in the beginning was instrumentals
>persay. They named it surf before the style we
>recognize evolved.
>
>Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
>Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the Hurricanes,
>but also west coast jazz, mariachi, Latin, country,
>Mediterranean, exotica, big band, etc. Some were more
>direct than others, but thesed were on the radio and
>in the homes the initiators came from.
>
>There were guitar instrumentals from bands from the
>beginning, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Ike Turner, and
>later Link Wray, Johnny and the Hurricanes, the
>Fireballs, and hundreds of others. Studio guitarists
>contributed too, but it's not likely they were the
>spark. Micky Baker might be an influence, and Al
>Casey, who developed the big guitar sound of Duane
>Eddy and Jody Reynolds.
>
>Phil Dirt
>
>--- Michael S Springer <> wrote:
>Before there was Surf Guitar there
>was Instrumental Guitar, right?
>
>I think the spark for instrumental guitar was
>session guitarists in the 50's. Session guitarists
>are a weird breed.
>They have to be brilliant, able to play almost any
>style.
>But normally, they have to fit in around the edges of
>other
>peoples music, in well defined styles.
>
>I think some of them got tired of sitting in the
>Shadows
>of singers,
>and Ventured out into new territory by blending
>various
>elements from the different styles they had to know
>for
>session work: jazz, r&b, country, maybe even pseudo
>flamenco.
>And figured, correctly that if it had a driving beat
>it would sell.
>And they could bask in the limelight for a change.
>But these guys were chameleons, eclectic to the max...
>category busters.
>They didn't <want> to be pinned down to one style-
>that would've been boring.
>
>I think surf happened when So Cal kids picked out a
>subset
>of the instro guitar repetoire that they thought was
>cool...
>only kids can define what is cool for their
>generation...
>and kids like extreme... like extreme reverb, and
>louder drums...
>and just louder everything.
>Anyway, the tunes from the earlier instro guitarists
>that they thought
>were cool became the patterns for new tunes in what
>was now
>a distinct style. Initially, simpler was better.
>More complexity came as the teen bands chops improved,
>
>
>Even in this list, I can feel the tension between
>the Eclecticism (openmindedness) inherited from Instro
>Guitar
>and the narrowness of the Coolness and/or Tradition
>factors.
> Both have something to contribute...
>The narrowness factors help define the style,
> the Eclectics breathe new life into it.
> But those who lean one way or the other may have
>a hard time getting along...
>
>Michael
>
>
>.
>Visit for
>archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
>Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>=====
>
>
>
>
>.
>Visit for archived
messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , "Dave Becker" <novapup@i...>
wrote:
> Although not related musically to Surf, another angle of influence
> rarely discussed is that at the time, the market in general was a
LOT
> more "open" to instrumental-only music. So the timing and
conditions for
> the "acceptance" of Surf were ready-made. Along with the classic
> crooners, the parents of would-be Surf kids were listening to the
> exotica/orchestras of the day - from Denny to Kostelanetz. Some
like
> Percy Faith even had pop hits, e.g. Theme From A Summer Place -
which
> gets covered by Surf/Instro artists even today.
>
> And after Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry, the regular parade of
> guitar-bearing Rock n Rollers on Ed Sullivan TV didn't hurt the
> inspirations of "all you youngsters", I'm sure.
>
> Phil's list is probably the representative "primordial stew" of
Surf ;-)
>
> BW Dave
>
>
Along those lines, which BW Dave sort of touched on, in the early
1960's the Top 20 was filled with music (instrumental) from movie
soundtracks, and other artists that come to mind are Ferrente &
Teicher; I recall my parents having some 'latin' instro records,
artist like Tito Puente; also the proliferation of so much 'safe'
music from white vocalists probably played a role -- in a sense,
early 'surf' was the garage, the punk of its time; a backlash,
like 'punk' was in the middle/late 1970's, a reaction to the disco
music that was so popular then...."rebel music" if you will (I
guess in a way Link Wray was a "rebel alternative" to doo-wop music
in the late 1950's too); always seems to be an 'action-reaction'
thing going on with rock n roll....
hey does anyone recall LOS INDIOS TABAJARAS? I used to love seeing
those guys on the ED SULLIVAN SHOW (I was one of
those 'youngsters'!!); but whose idea was it to dress them up like
Indians with a few feathers sticking out of their heads? Well, they
weren't surf, but I will go so far as to suggest that their playing,
which was pretty stylish despite their physical image, probably
influenced some of the guys who eventually picked up a guitar and
ultimately found their way into the surf genre? maybe?
Unsteady Freddie
P.S. this is a wonderful and interesting discussion thread!
Red River Rockers All:
I really like Unsteady Freddie's perspective on these things. (esp the
Link Wray rebel analogy) There is always a discussion on who are the
direct musical influences on Surf from "the day", which is what this
thread is supposed to be about :-}, but I do find interesting the social
and industry dynamics as well.
Not to forget, the industry at the time was poorly integrated.
Songwriters wrote pop tunes and lyrics for other artists who recorded
the songs or performed them. Wasn't this the case with most teen idols?
I mean, come on. Fabian, yes, but who'd think Neil Sedaka could actually
become one on his own? :-) There were also 5 and 6pc bands (leftover
from the R&B/Swing era) looking around for artists to back in the
emerging Rock era...a Johnny and The Hurricanes model. With saxes still
in hand, they presented the "model" for everything but the singer... a
reference for Surf bands like the early Challengers. First wave Surf
bands should be credited with facilitating something that was truly
consummated by The Beatles. That is writing and performing their own
music! Even if not, vocals. When The Beatles came along, they
represented the music industy's "re-integration" and re-established
power of the ARTIST who wrote, performed and later (thanks Brian
Wilson!) produced and owned their own vocal pop material as the
mainstream norm.
Also, don't forget how influential and radical Surf's kissin cousin,
guitar-twangin' Rockabilly, was during it's late 50's explosion outta
Sun/Memphis. This stuff started to help knock down the dance hall racial
barriers.
BW Dave
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
[mailto:]
>On Behalf Of Unsteady Freddie
>Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:31 AM
>To:
>Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
>
>
>
>--- In , "Dave Becker" <novapup@i...>
>wrote:
>> Although not related musically to Surf, another angle of influence
>> rarely discussed is that at the time, the market in general was a
>LOT
>> more "open" to instrumental-only music. So the timing and
>conditions for
>> the "acceptance" of Surf were ready-made. Along with the classic
>> crooners, the parents of would-be Surf kids were listening to the
>> exotica/orchestras of the day - from Denny to Kostelanetz. Some
>like
>> Percy Faith even had pop hits, e.g. Theme From A Summer Place -
>which
>> gets covered by Surf/Instro artists even today.
>>
>> And after Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry, the regular parade of
>> guitar-bearing Rock n Rollers on Ed Sullivan TV didn't hurt the
>> inspirations of "all you youngsters", I'm sure.
>>
>> Phil's list is probably the representative "primordial stew" of
>Surf ;-)
>>
>> BW Dave
>>
>>
>
>
>Along those lines, which BW Dave sort of touched on, in the early
>1960's the Top 20 was filled with music (instrumental) from movie
>soundtracks, and other artists that come to mind are Ferrente &
>Teicher; I recall my parents having some 'latin' instro records,
>artist like Tito Puente; also the proliferation of so much 'safe'
>music from white vocalists probably played a role -- in a sense,
>early 'surf' was the garage, the punk of its time; a backlash,
>like 'punk' was in the middle/late 1970's, a reaction to the disco
>music that was so popular then...."rebel music" if you will (I
>guess in a way Link Wray was a "rebel alternative" to doo-wop music
>in the late 1950's too); always seems to be an 'action-reaction'
>thing going on with rock n roll....
>
>hey does anyone recall LOS INDIOS TABAJARAS? I used to love seeing
>those guys on the ED SULLIVAN SHOW (I was one of
>those 'youngsters'!!); but whose idea was it to dress them up like
>Indians with a few feathers sticking out of their heads? Well, they
>weren't surf, but I will go so far as to suggest that their playing,
>which was pretty stylish despite their physical image, probably
>influenced some of the guys who eventually picked up a guitar and
>ultimately found their way into the surf genre? maybe?
>
>Unsteady Freddie
>
>P.S. this is a wonderful and interesting discussion thread!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>Visit for archived
messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
comments inserted...
--- Unsteady Freddie <> wrote:
> Along those lines, which BW Dave sort of touched
> on, in the early 1960's the Top 20 was filled
> with music (instrumental) from movie soundtracks,
> and other artists that come to mind are Ferrente
> & Teicher; I recall my parents having some
> 'latin' instro records, artist like Tito Puente;
> also the proliferation of so much 'safe' music
> from white vocalists probably played a role
Adult record collections then commonly included Martin
Denny, Orchestral, Stereo Spectaculars, pop-jazz, and
pop singers like Sinatra, Nat King Cole, and Johnny
Ray. Guys I've talked with from the day admitted
influence from these and similar sources. Cal Tjader,
TJB, Los Indio Tabajaras, Belly Dance, Baja Marimba
Band, Percy Faith, Montevani, Boston Pops, and those
dreadfuil London 4-Phase records.
> in a sense, early 'surf' was the garage, the punk
> of its time; a backlash, like 'punk' was in the
> middle/late 1970's, a reaction to the disco
> music that was so popular then...."rebel music"
> if you will (I guess in a way Link Wray was a
> "rebel alternative" to doo-wop music in the
> late 1950's too); always seems to be an
> 'action-reaction' thing going on with rock n roll...
I've long held that it was the surf bands that rescued
rock 'n' roll from the Brill Building writers and
major label music factories. Lots of DIY releases. It
was also often loud and aggressive and sensual. That
makes it the first punk movement if you don't consider
Bo Diddley a punk.
=====
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
wrote:
Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the Hurricanes
So did Brian I think...
Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
Duanne Eddy?
Gene Autry
Chet Atkins
Link Wray?
"Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
Western Swing Music
the Ventures?
Chet Atkins
Duane Eddy
Les Paul
GIenn Miller
Tommy Dorsey
Country and Western Music
The Fireballs?
Unknown?
Johnny and the Hurricanes
Jazz greats
Bill Haley
...and Chet cites Django as his major influence. The roots grow deep.
Don't forget Buddy Holly.
--- In , "stratrhythm"
<lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> wrote:
> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the Hurricanes
>
>
> So did Brian I think...
>
> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
>
> Duanne Eddy?
> Gene Autry
> Chet Atkins
> Link Wray?
> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> Western Swing Music
> the Ventures?
> Chet Atkins
> Duane Eddy
> Les Paul
> GIenn Miller
> Tommy Dorsey
> Country and Western Music
> The Fireballs?
> Unknown?
> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> Jazz greats
> Bill Haley
>
> ...and Chet cites Django as his major influence. The roots grow deep.
I wonder if there's any connection between the vocal stylings of Buddy
Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to catch...
BWD
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
[mailto:]
>On Behalf Of spskins
>Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
>To:
>Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
>
>
>Don't forget Buddy Holly.
>--- In , "stratrhythm"
><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
>> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
>> wrote:
>> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
>> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the Hurricanes
>>
>>
>> So did Brian I think...
>>
>> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
>>
>> Duanne Eddy?
>> Gene Autry
>> Chet Atkins
>> Link Wray?
>> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
>> Western Swing Music
>> the Ventures?
>> Chet Atkins
>> Duane Eddy
>> Les Paul
>> GIenn Miller
>> Tommy Dorsey
>> Country and Western Music
>> The Fireballs?
>> Unknown?
>> Johnny and the Hurricanes
>> Jazz greats
>> Bill Haley
>>
>> ...and Chet cites Django as his major influence. The roots grow deep.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>Visit for archived
messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback reverb or echo, or
whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the pre-tank era ("Maybe
Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy Sue" are very Wipe
Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced surf, the list goes
on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets would be a hell of
a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense than The Doors or the
Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs, Buddy Holly, and
(later) Bobby Fuller connection with producer/writing credit taker
Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
--- In , "Dave Becker" <novapup@i...> wrote:
> I wonder if there's any connection between the vocal stylings of Buddy
> Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
>
> When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to catch...
> BWD
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From:
> [mailto:]
> >On Behalf Of spskins
> >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> >To:
> >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
> >
> >
> >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> >--- In , "stratrhythm"
> ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> >> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
> >> wrote:
> >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the Hurricanes
> >>
> >>
> >> So did Brian I think...
> >>
> >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> >>
> >> Duanne Eddy?
> >> Gene Autry
> >> Chet Atkins
> >> Link Wray?
> >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> >> Western Swing Music
> >> the Ventures?
> >> Chet Atkins
> >> Duane Eddy
> >> Les Paul
> >> GIenn Miller
> >> Tommy Dorsey
> >> Country and Western Music
> >> The Fireballs?
> >> Unknown?
> >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> >> Jazz greats
> >> Bill Haley
> >>
> >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major influence. The roots grow deep.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >Visit for archived
> messages,
> >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Briefly, the way I see it:
First, there was country (called it western back
then).
Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
influenced by the King to do his own thing.
Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
The String-A-Longs.
Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
wagon.
Dick Stewart
Editor - TLM
--- spskins <> wrote:
> Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> reverb or echo, or
> whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> pre-tank era ("Maybe
> Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> Sue" are very Wipe
> Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> surf, the list goes
> on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> would be a hell of
> a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> than The Doors or the
> Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> Buddy Holly, and
> (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> producer/writing credit taker
> Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> --- In , "Dave Becker"
> <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> vocal stylings of Buddy
> > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> >
> > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> catch...
> > BWD
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From:
> > [mailto:]
> > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > >To:
> > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> Influencers?
> > >
> > >
> > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > >--- In ,
> "stratrhythm"
> > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> <phildirt@r...>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> Hurricanes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So did Brian I think...
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > >>
> > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > >> Gene Autry
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Link Wray?
> > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > >> Western Swing Music
> > >> the Ventures?
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Duane Eddy
> > >> Les Paul
> > >> GIenn Miller
> > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > >> Country and Western Music
> > >> The Fireballs?
> > >> Unknown?
> > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > >> Jazz greats
> > >> Bill Haley
> > >>
> > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> influence. The roots grow deep.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >Visit
> for archived
> > messages,
> > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
The beauty of Surf as a genre is that it admires and takes or
incorporates from SO MANY influences, and then gives back by
INFLUENCING so many other genres, even the ones it takes from! Gotta
love it.
BW Dave
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
[mailto:]
>On Behalf Of spskins
>Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:15 PM
>To:
>Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
>
>Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback reverb or echo, or
>whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the pre-tank era ("Maybe
>Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy Sue" are very Wipe
>Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced surf, the list goes
>on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets would be a hell of
>a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense than The Doors or the
>Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs, Buddy Holly, and
>(later) Bobby Fuller connection with producer/writing credit taker
>Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
>--- In , "Dave Becker" <novapup@i...>
wrote:
>> I wonder if there's any connection between the vocal stylings of
Buddy
>> Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
>>
>> When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to catch...
>> BWD
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From:
>> [mailto:]
>> >On Behalf Of spskins
>> >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
>> >To:
>> >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
>> >
>> >
>> >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
>> >--- In , "stratrhythm"
>> ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
>> >> --- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
>> >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the Hurricanes
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So did Brian I think...
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
>> >>
>> >> Duanne Eddy?
>> >> Gene Autry
>> >> Chet Atkins
>> >> Link Wray?
>> >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
>> >> Western Swing Music
>> >> the Ventures?
>> >> Chet Atkins
>> >> Duane Eddy
>> >> Les Paul
>> >> GIenn Miller
>> >> Tommy Dorsey
>> >> Country and Western Music
>> >> The Fireballs?
>> >> Unknown?
>> >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
>> >> Jazz greats
>> >> Bill Haley
>> >>
>> >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major influence. The roots grow
deep.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >Visit for archived
>> messages,
>> >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>> >
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>Visit for archived
messages,
>bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dick, I'm gonna say your fifth point is an overstatement. The Ventures certainly
heard the Fireballs as they covered Bulldog but their sound was not greatly
inspired by them. The early sound of the Ventures indicates big inspiration from
the Fabulous Wailers and Chet Atkins.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Stewart
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
Briefly, the way I see it:
First, there was country (called it western back
then).
Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
influenced by the King to do his own thing.
Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
The String-A-Longs.
Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
wagon.
Dick Stewart
Editor - TLM
--- spskins <> wrote:
> Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> reverb or echo, or
> whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> pre-tank era ("Maybe
> Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> Sue" are very Wipe
> Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> surf, the list goes
> on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> would be a hell of
> a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> than The Doors or the
> Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> Buddy Holly, and
> (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> producer/writing credit taker
> Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> --- In , "Dave Becker"
> <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> vocal stylings of Buddy
> > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> >
> > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> catch...
> > BWD
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From:
> > [mailto:]
> > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > >To:
> > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> Influencers?
> > >
> > >
> > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > >--- In ,
> "stratrhythm"
> > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> <phildirt@r...>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> Hurricanes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So did Brian I think...
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > >>
> > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > >> Gene Autry
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Link Wray?
> > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > >> Western Swing Music
> > >> the Ventures?
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Duane Eddy
> > >> Les Paul
> > >> GIenn Miller
> > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > >> Country and Western Music
> > >> The Fireballs?
> > >> Unknown?
> > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > >> Jazz greats
> > >> Bill Haley
> > >>
> > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> influence. The roots grow deep.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >Visit
> for archived
> > messages,
> > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Except it took two Ventures to play what one Chet Atkins could!
Dan
Marty Tippens <> wrote:
Dick, I'm gonna say your fifth point is an overstatement. The Ventures certainly
heard the Fireballs as they covered Bulldog but their sound was not greatly
inspired by them. The early sound of the Ventures indicates big inspiration from
the Fabulous Wailers and Chet Atkins.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Stewart
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
Briefly, the way I see it:
First, there was country (called it western back
then).
Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
influenced by the King to do his own thing.
Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
The String-A-Longs.
Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
wagon.
Dick Stewart
Editor - TLM
--- spskins <> wrote:
> Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> reverb or echo, or
> whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> pre-tank era ("Maybe
> Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> Sue" are very Wipe
> Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> surf, the list goes
> on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> would be a hell of
> a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> than The Doors or the
> Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> Buddy Holly, and
> (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> producer/writing credit taker
> Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> --- In , "Dave Becker"
> <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> vocal stylings of Buddy
> > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> >
> > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> catch...
> > BWD
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From:
> > [mailto:]
> > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > >To:
> > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> Influencers?
> > >
> > >
> > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > >--- In ,
> "stratrhythm"
> > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> <phildirt@r...>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> Hurricanes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So did Brian I think...
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > >>
> > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > >> Gene Autry
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Link Wray?
> > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > >> Western Swing Music
> > >> the Ventures?
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Duane Eddy
> > >> Les Paul
> > >> GIenn Miller
> > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > >> Country and Western Music
> > >> The Fireballs?
> > >> Unknown?
> > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > >> Jazz greats
> > >> Bill Haley
> > >>
> > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> influence. The roots grow deep.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >Visit
> for archived
> > messages,
> > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Bottom line though - The Ventures Walk Don't Run left one HECKUVA longer lasting
impression on the world than did Chet Atkins fingerstyle/jazz version!
Bruce D
Dan Bartley <> wrote:
Except it took two Ventures to play what one Chet Atkins could!
Dan
Marty Tippens <> wrote:
Dick, I'm gonna say your fifth point is an overstatement. The Ventures certainly
heard the Fireballs as they covered Bulldog but their sound was not greatly
inspired by them. The early sound of the Ventures indicates big inspiration from
the Fabulous Wailers and Chet Atkins.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Stewart
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
Briefly, the way I see it:
First, there was country (called it western back
then).
Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
influenced by the King to do his own thing.
Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
The String-A-Longs.
Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
wagon.
Dick Stewart
Editor - TLM
--- spskins <> wrote:
> Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> reverb or echo, or
> whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> pre-tank era ("Maybe
> Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> Sue" are very Wipe
> Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> surf, the list goes
> on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> would be a hell of
> a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> than The Doors or the
> Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> Buddy Holly, and
> (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> producer/writing credit taker
> Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> --- In , "Dave Becker"
> <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> vocal stylings of Buddy
> > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> >
> > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> catch...
> > BWD
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From:
> > [mailto:]
> > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > >To:
> > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> Influencers?
> > >
> > >
> > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > >--- In ,
> "stratrhythm"
> > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> <phildirt@r...>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> Hurricanes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So did Brian I think...
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > >>
> > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > >> Gene Autry
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Link Wray?
> > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > >> Western Swing Music
> > >> the Ventures?
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Duane Eddy
> > >> Les Paul
> > >> GIenn Miller
> > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > >> Country and Western Music
> > >> The Fireballs?
> > >> Unknown?
> > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > >> Jazz greats
> > >> Bill Haley
> > >>
> > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> influence. The roots grow deep.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >Visit
> for archived
> > messages,
> > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I like it.
--- In , Dick Stewart
<rvstewartproductions@y...> wrote:
> Briefly, the way I see it:
>
> First, there was country (called it western back
> then).
>
> Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
> roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
>
> Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
> flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
> influenced by the King to do his own thing.
>
> Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
> genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
> The String-A-Longs.
>
> Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
> Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
>
> Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
> two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
> wagon.
>
>
> Dick Stewart
> Editor - TLM
>
>
> --- spskins <superchimp9@h...> wrote:
> > Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> > reverb or echo, or
> > whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> > pre-tank era ("Maybe
> > Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> > Sue" are very Wipe
> > Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> > surf, the list goes
> > on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> > would be a hell of
> > a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> > than The Doors or the
> > Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> > Buddy Holly, and
> > (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> > producer/writing credit taker
> > Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> > --- In , "Dave Becker"
> > <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> > vocal stylings of Buddy
> > > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> > >
> > > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> > catch...
> > > BWD
> > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From:
> > > [mailto:]
> > > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> > Influencers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > > >--- In ,
> > "stratrhythm"
> > > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> > <phildirt@r...>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> > Hurricanes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> So did Brian I think...
> > > >>
> > > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > > >>
> > > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > > >> Gene Autry
> > > >> Chet Atkins
> > > >> Link Wray?
> > > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > > >> Western Swing Music
> > > >> the Ventures?
> > > >> Chet Atkins
> > > >> Duane Eddy
> > > >> Les Paul
> > > >> GIenn Miller
> > > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > > >> Country and Western Music
> > > >> The Fireballs?
> > > >> Unknown?
> > > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > > >> Jazz greats
> > > >> Bill Haley
> > > >>
> > > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> > influence. The roots grow deep.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >.
> > > >Visit
> > for archived
> > > messages,
> > > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
I'd have to say you're flat out wrong (again).
The Fireballs have a heavy influence on The Ventures. Their style
goes far beyond "Bulldog". The Ventures borrowed quite generously
from Tomsco and company, both stylistically and compositionally.
George T. is definitely no slouch, and while Chet Atkins was quite a
good guitarist, George is rather formidable himself. George's style
is very tasteful, and often makes use of complicated chord melodies
rivaling Chet in complexity. Even the guitar tone used by the
Ventures is pretty much a direct ripoff what George T. used at that
time. One thing you'll notice is the virtual absence of any bass
playing on The Fireballs instrumentals. If you add a bassline and
boosted the drums slightly, you'd be hard pressed to tell the
difference between The Fireballs and The Ventures, especially on
songs such as "Teekee", "Josh", and "Doop".
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Dick, I'm gonna say your fifth point is an overstatement. The
Ventures certainly heard the Fireballs as they covered Bulldog but
their sound was not greatly inspired by them. The early sound of the
Ventures indicates big inspiration from the Fabulous Wailers and Chet
Atkins.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dick Stewart
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
>
>
> Briefly, the way I see it:
>
> First, there was country (called it western back
> then).
>
> Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
> roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
>
> Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
> flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
> influenced by the King to do his own thing.
>
> Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
> genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
> The String-A-Longs.
>
> Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
> Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
>
> Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
> two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
> wagon.
>
>
> Dick Stewart
> Editor - TLM
>
>
> --- spskins <superchimp9@h...> wrote:
> > Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> > reverb or echo, or
> > whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> > pre-tank era ("Maybe
> > Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> > Sue" are very Wipe
> > Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> > surf, the list goes
> > on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> > would be a hell of
> > a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> > than The Doors or the
> > Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> > Buddy Holly, and
> > (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> > producer/writing credit taker
> > Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> > --- In , "Dave Becker"
> > <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> > vocal stylings of Buddy
> > > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> > >
> > > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> > catch...
> > > BWD
> > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From:
> > > [mailto:]
> > > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> > Influencers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > > >--- In ,
> > "stratrhythm"
> > > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> > <phildirt@r...>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> > Hurricanes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> So did Brian I think...
> > > >>
> > > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > > >>
> > > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > > >> Gene Autry
> > > >> Chet Atkins
> > > >> Link Wray?
> > > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > > >> Western Swing Music
> > > >> the Ventures?
> > > >> Chet Atkins
> > > >> Duane Eddy
> > > >> Les Paul
> > > >> GIenn Miller
> > > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > > >> Country and Western Music
> > > >> The Fireballs?
> > > >> Unknown?
> > > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > > >> Jazz greats
> > > >> Bill Haley
> > > >>
> > > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> > influence. The roots grow deep.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >.
> > > >Visit
> > for archived
> > > messages,
> > > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
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Easy Red, you're arguing on emotion rather than fact. Saying that Tomsco is a
formidable guitarist is extraneous information and doesn't support the notion
that the Fireballs were a heavy influence on the Ventures. I agree that the
Ventures tone is similar to the Fireballs but it is also similar to the Wailers
That can't be helped when a band consists of Fender guitars and amps. The
Ventures songwriting and general playing style owes more to the Fabulous Wailers
and Chet. Understand that I am not saying that the Fireballs had no influence on
the Ventures, I'm sure they had some influence but not a heavy influence.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: red_thundr
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:17 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
I'd have to say you're flat out wrong (again).
The Fireballs have a heavy influence on The Ventures. Their style
goes far beyond "Bulldog". The Ventures borrowed quite generously
from Tomsco and company, both stylistically and compositionally.
George T. is definitely no slouch, and while Chet Atkins was quite a
good guitarist, George is rather formidable himself. George's style
is very tasteful, and often makes use of complicated chord melodies
rivaling Chet in complexity. Even the guitar tone used by the
Ventures is pretty much a direct ripoff what George T. used at that
time. One thing you'll notice is the virtual absence of any bass
playing on The Fireballs instrumentals. If you add a bassline and
boosted the drums slightly, you'd be hard pressed to tell the
difference between The Fireballs and The Ventures, especially on
songs such as "Teekee", "Josh", and "Doop".
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Dick, I'm gonna say your fifth point is an overstatement. The
Ventures certainly heard the Fireballs as they covered Bulldog but
their sound was not greatly inspired by them. The early sound of the
Ventures indicates big inspiration from the Fabulous Wailers and Chet
Atkins.
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dick Stewart
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
>
>
> Briefly, the way I see it:
>
> First, there was country (called it western back
> then).
>
> Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
> roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
>
> Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
> flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
> influenced by the King to do his own thing.
>
> Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
> genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
> The String-A-Longs.
>
> Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
> Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
>
> Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
> two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
> wagon.
>
>
> Dick Stewart
> Editor - TLM
>
>
> --- spskins <superchimp9@h...> wrote:
> > Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> > reverb or echo, or
> > whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> > pre-tank era ("Maybe
> > Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> > Sue" are very Wipe
> > Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> > surf, the list goes
> > on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> > would be a hell of
> > a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> > than The Doors or the
> > Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> > Buddy Holly, and
> > (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> > producer/writing credit taker
> > Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> > --- In , "Dave Becker"
> > <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> > vocal stylings of Buddy
> > > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> > >
> > > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> > catch...
> > > BWD
> > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From:
> > > [mailto:]
> > > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> > Influencers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > > >--- In ,
> > "stratrhythm"
> > > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> > <phildirt@r...>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> > Hurricanes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> So did Brian I think...
> > > >>
> > > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > > >>
> > > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > > >> Gene Autry
> > > >> Chet Atkins
> > > >> Link Wray?
> > > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > > >> Western Swing Music
> > > >> the Ventures?
> > > >> Chet Atkins
> > > >> Duane Eddy
> > > >> Les Paul
> > > >> GIenn Miller
> > > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > > >> Country and Western Music
> > > >> The Fireballs?
> > > >> Unknown?
> > > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > > >> Jazz greats
> > > >> Bill Haley
> > > >>
> > > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> > influence. The roots grow deep.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >.
> > > >Visit
> > for archived
> > > messages,
> > > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I play the Chet fingerstyle version. I was showing off to a few folks with it at
the PCC record swap a couple of years ago. Then a guy took the guitar from me
and played the Ventures single note version. Many more ears perked up with
enthuiastic, "Wow, I remember that!" type of comments.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: bruce d
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
Bottom line though - The Ventures Walk Don't Run left one HECKUVA longer
lasting impression on the world than did Chet Atkins fingerstyle/jazz version!
Bruce D
Dan Bartley <> wrote:
Except it took two Ventures to play what one Chet Atkins could!
Dan
Marty Tippens <> wrote:
Dick, I'm gonna say your fifth point is an overstatement. The Ventures
certainly heard the Fireballs as they covered Bulldog but their sound was not
greatly inspired by them. The early sound of the Ventures indicates big
inspiration from the Fabulous Wailers and Chet Atkins.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Stewart
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the Influencers?
Briefly, the way I see it:
First, there was country (called it western back
then).
Second: Elvis came on the scene and put a rock 'n'
roll spin on country ("That's All Right")
Third: Holly, who originally played country, was so
flipped out over Elvis's new sound, that he was
influenced by the King to do his own thing.
Fourth: Because of Petty's arrangement and production
genius and Holly's style, along came The Fireballs and
The String-A-Longs.
Fifth: The Ventures were greatly inspired by The
Fireballs and they took guitar instros to a new level.
Sixth: Everyone else (except for Duane Eddy and one or
two others)jumped on the guitar rock instro band
wagon.
Dick Stewart
Editor - TLM
--- spskins <> wrote:
> Yeah, I hear it. Plus, his strat with slapback
> reverb or echo, or
> whatever, is a pretty thick, wet sound for the
> pre-tank era ("Maybe
> Baby", That'll Be the Day"), The tom toms in "Peggy
> Sue" are very Wipe
> Out-esque, "Heartbeat" presages Latin-influenced
> surf, the list goes
> on. A surf tribute to Buddy Holly and the Crickets
> would be a hell of
> a lot better and make a hell of a lot more sense
> than The Doors or the
> Grateful Dead. There's also the whole Fireballs,
> Buddy Holly, and
> (later) Bobby Fuller connection with
> producer/writing credit taker
> Norman Petty of Clovis NM. Hmmm.
> --- In , "Dave Becker"
> <novapup@i...> wrote:
> > I wonder if there's any connection between the
> vocal stylings of Buddy
> > Holly and (The Surfaris') Surfer Joe ;-)
> >
> > When he's ridin' the freeways, Man, is he hard to
> catch...
> > BWD
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From:
> > [mailto:]
> > >On Behalf Of spskins
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:40 AM
> > >To:
> > >Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Who Influenced the
> Influencers?
> > >
> > >
> > >Don't forget Buddy Holly.
> > >--- In ,
> "stratrhythm"
> > ><lawyerschroeder@s...> wrote:
> > >> --- In , Phil Dirt
> <phildirt@r...>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> Influences included Link Wray, Duane Eddy, the
> > >> Ventures, the Fireballs, Johnny and the
> Hurricanes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So did Brian I think...
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, who DID influence the influencers?
> > >>
> > >> Duanne Eddy?
> > >> Gene Autry
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Link Wray?
> > >> "Hambone" (a Local Slide Player)
> > >> Western Swing Music
> > >> the Ventures?
> > >> Chet Atkins
> > >> Duane Eddy
> > >> Les Paul
> > >> GIenn Miller
> > >> Tommy Dorsey
> > >> Country and Western Music
> > >> The Fireballs?
> > >> Unknown?
> > >> Johnny and the Hurricanes
> > >> Jazz greats
> > >> Bill Haley
> > >>
> > >> ...and Chet cites Django as his major
> influence. The roots grow deep.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >.
> > >Visit
> for archived
> > messages,
> > >bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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