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Marty,
I have a 57-62 pickup mounted in the neck position of a maplenecker
superstratoid with
a Strat type bridge very similar to a MIM Strat.
I have a 57-62 from the same set mounted in the neck position
of a maplenecker MIM.
The sound is very different, more than I think could be accounted for
by the offset caused by a 24 fret neck.
The superstratoid sounds woody, the Strat sounds airy.
You see, it's more complex than that:
It took me a while to see it, but
not only is the string vibrating in relation to the pickup,
but the pickups are themselves vibrating in response to
vibrations transmitted from the bridge through the body through their
mounts, either on the body or on a pickguard.
The vibration of the pickup in response to the body provides
the richness of the tone, similar to the sound chamber of an acoustic
guitar,
since the sound waves take longer to vibrated throught the body to the
pickup.
I suspect body mounted pickups are vibrating <more>
than a pickguard mounted pickup, since plastic is not known for being
as good a transmitter of resonance as wood....
Also, if you change a Strat's pickup mounting screws from the stock alloy
ones
to stainless steel, you will get a different sound, proving that the
pickups do
get some resonance from their mounting points.
I have also heard that you can use a doublenecker guitar to prove this:
Plug in one of a double neckers two "guitars" into an amp, but <play>
the other one... The plugged in neck's pickup's are picking up body
resonance
from the other one.
I also know of a guy that had his Yamaha Roadstar stratoclone modded so
that the pickups were body mounted <under> the pickguard. He did it for
the tonal
change.
Michael
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:58:28 -0700
From: "Marty Tippens" <>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1236
I don't know about your pickup mount conclusions, Michael, when you say
body-mounted pickups give a thicker "woodier" sound (whatever that is).
Magnetic pick-ups capture the sound of moving steel strings not the
vibrations of the pickup mounts. I think that any signifcant difference
you are hearing between guitars with body mounted pickups vs pickguard
mounted is the different pickups. For instance, super strats may have a
humbucker at the bridge position or hotter single coil pickups.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael S Springer
To:
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Digest Number 1236
...Both the Jaguar and the Jazzmaster have body mounted pickups,
a trait shared with pickguardless "superstrats". This gives the guitar
a
thicker
woodier sound. The Strats pickups are pickguard mounted.
Aside from giving the Strat part of it's sound characteristcs,
it makes it much easer to work on since most of the wiring and
electronics are
attached to the pickguard.
Loosen the strings, remove 11 screws and desolder 3 wires,
and the whole pickguard and everything attached to it comes off.
It's practically modular. Very easy to see whats going on in the
wiring
and modify it.
It's the most hot roddable guitar design there is!
Michael
Alright Michael, if you're actually hearing a difference.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael S Springer
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Digesting the Concept that body resonance is
picked up by pickups....
Marty,
I have a 57-62 pickup mounted in the neck position of a maplenecker
superstratoid with
a Strat type bridge very similar to a MIM Strat.
I have a 57-62 from the same set mounted in the neck position
of a maplenecker MIM.
The sound is very different, more than I think could be accounted for
by the offset caused by a 24 fret neck.
The superstratoid sounds woody, the Strat sounds airy.
You see, it's more complex than that:
It took me a while to see it, but
not only is the string vibrating in relation to the pickup,
but the pickups are themselves vibrating in response to
vibrations transmitted from the bridge through the body through their
mounts, either on the body or on a pickguard.
The vibration of the pickup in response to the body provides
the richness of the tone, similar to the sound chamber of an acoustic
guitar,
since the sound waves take longer to vibrated throught the body to the
pickup.
I suspect body mounted pickups are vibrating <more>
than a pickguard mounted pickup, since plastic is not known for being
as good a transmitter of resonance as wood....
Also, if you change a Strat's pickup mounting screws from the stock alloy
ones
to stainless steel, you will get a different sound, proving that the
pickups do
get some resonance from their mounting points.
I have also heard that you can use a doublenecker guitar to prove this:
Plug in one of a double neckers two "guitars" into an amp, but <play>
the other one... The plugged in neck's pickup's are picking up body
resonance
from the other one.
I also know of a guy that had his Yamaha Roadstar stratoclone modded so
that the pickups were body mounted <under> the pickguard. He did it for
the tonal
change.
Michael
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:58:28 -0700
From: "Marty Tippens" <>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1236
I don't know about your pickup mount conclusions, Michael, when you say
body-mounted pickups give a thicker "woodier" sound (whatever that is).
Magnetic pick-ups capture the sound of moving steel strings not the
vibrations of the pickup mounts. I think that any signifcant difference
you are hearing between guitars with body mounted pickups vs pickguard
mounted is the different pickups. For instance, super strats may have a
humbucker at the bridge position or hotter single coil pickups.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael S Springer
To:
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Digest Number 1236
...Both the Jaguar and the Jazzmaster have body mounted pickups,
a trait shared with pickguardless "superstrats". This gives the guitar
a
thicker
woodier sound. The Strats pickups are pickguard mounted.
Aside from giving the Strat part of it's sound characteristcs,
it makes it much easer to work on since most of the wiring and
electronics are
attached to the pickguard.
Loosen the strings, remove 11 screws and desolder 3 wires,
and the whole pickguard and everything attached to it comes off.
It's practically modular. Very easy to see whats going on in the
wiring
and modify it.
It's the most hot roddable guitar design there is!
Michael
.
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bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What is the type of wood in both guitars? It could also be a
difference in bridges that accounts for the added resonence. For
example, Brian Setzer uses Gibson gibson bridges but he hollows his
posts out for more resonence. Different tuners, nuts, stings, string
age, difference in exactly where the pick ups are mounted, and finish
all can have effects on resonence.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael S Springer
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Digesting the Concept that body
resonance is picked up by pickups....
>
>
> Marty,
>
> I have a 57-62 pickup mounted in the neck position of a maplenecker
> superstratoid with
> a Strat type bridge very similar to a MIM Strat.
> I have a 57-62 from the same set mounted in the neck position
> of a maplenecker MIM.
> The sound is very different, more than I think could be accounted for
> by the offset caused by a 24 fret neck.
> The superstratoid sounds woody, the Strat sounds airy.
>
>
> You see, it's more complex than that:
> It took me a while to see it, but
> not only is the string vibrating in relation to the pickup,
> but the pickups are themselves vibrating in response to
> vibrations transmitted from the bridge through the body through their
> mounts, either on the body or on a pickguard.
>
> The vibration of the pickup in response to the body provides
> the richness of the tone, similar to the sound chamber of an acoustic
> guitar,
> since the sound waves take longer to vibrated throught the body to the
> pickup.
>
> I suspect body mounted pickups are vibrating <more>
> than a pickguard mounted pickup, since plastic is not known for being
> as good a transmitter of resonance as wood....
>
> Also, if you change a Strat's pickup mounting screws from the
stock alloy
> ones
> to stainless steel, you will get a different sound, proving that the
> pickups do
> get some resonance from their mounting points.
>
> I have also heard that you can use a doublenecker guitar to prove
this:
>
> Plug in one of a double neckers two "guitars" into an amp, but <play>
> the other one... The plugged in neck's pickup's are picking up body
> resonance
> from the other one.
>
> I also know of a guy that had his Yamaha Roadstar stratoclone
modded so
> that the pickups were body mounted <under> the pickguard. He did
it for
> the tonal
> change.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:58:28 -0700
> From: "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1236
>
> I don't know about your pickup mount conclusions, Michael, when
you say
> body-mounted pickups give a thicker "woodier" sound (whatever that
is).
> Magnetic pick-ups capture the sound of moving steel strings not the
> vibrations of the pickup mounts. I think that any signifcant
difference
> you are hearing between guitars with body mounted pickups vs pickguard
> mounted is the different pickups. For instance, super strats may
have a
> humbucker at the bridge position or hotter single coil pickups.
>
> -Marty
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael S Springer
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Digest Number 1236
>
>
> ...Both the Jaguar and the Jazzmaster have body mounted pickups,
> a trait shared with pickguardless "superstrats". This gives the
guitar
> a
> thicker
> woodier sound. The Strats pickups are pickguard mounted.
> Aside from giving the Strat part of it's sound characteristcs,
> it makes it much easer to work on since most of the wiring and
> electronics are
> attached to the pickguard.
> Loosen the strings, remove 11 screws and desolder 3 wires,
> and the whole pickguard and everything attached to it comes off.
> It's practically modular. Very easy to see whats going on in the
> wiring
> and modify it.
> It's the most hot roddable guitar design there is!
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.. yup, wood, neck wood, actual make - the test described hardly
meets the scientific 'all other things being equal' standard.
Having said that, I am curious what a decent test would show. I have
read to that the mounting makes a differnce, yet I'm with marty in
not unerstanding how it would work electronically. this part:
> > > > The vibration of the pickup in response to the body provides
> > the richness of the tone, similar to the sound chamber of an
acoustic
> > guitar,
> > since the sound waves take longer to vibrated throught the body
to the
> > pickup.
doesn't make sense to me, since I always understood that the pick up
doesn't pick up mechanical vibrations - it induces a sine wave in the
magnet due to the string vibrations, but that works electronically
not mechanically. (sorry my terminology sucks in english)
then again, that's the theory, and as we all know reality hardly ever
conforms to theory (damned reality!).
So, if any one has more light to shed on the subject, it would be
greatly appreciated!
WR
--- In , "Jacob Dobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
>
> What is the type of wood in both guitars? It could also be a
> difference in bridges that accounts for the added resonence. For
> example, Brian Setzer uses Gibson gibson bridges but he hollows his
> posts out for more resonence. Different tuners, nuts, stings, string
> age, difference in exactly where the pick ups are mounted, and
finish
> all can have effects on resonence.
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael S Springer
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Digesting the Concept that body
> resonance is picked up by pickups....
> >
> >
> > Marty,
> >
> > I have a 57-62 pickup mounted in the neck position of a
maplenecker
> > superstratoid with
> > a Strat type bridge very similar to a MIM Strat.
> > I have a 57-62 from the same set mounted in the neck position
> > of a maplenecker MIM.
> > The sound is very different, more than I think could be
accounted for
> > by the offset caused by a 24 fret neck.
> > The superstratoid sounds woody, the Strat sounds airy.
> >
> >
> > You see, it's more complex than that:
> > It took me a while to see it, but
> > not only is the string vibrating in relation to the pickup,
> > but the pickups are themselves vibrating in response to
> > vibrations transmitted from the bridge through the body through
their
> > mounts, either on the body or on a pickguard.
> >
> > > > The vibration of the pickup in response to the body provides
> > the richness of the tone, similar to the sound chamber of an
acoustic
> > guitar,
> > since the sound waves take longer to vibrated throught the body
to the
> > pickup.
> > I suspect body mounted pickups are vibrating <more>
> > than a pickguard mounted pickup, since plastic is not known for
being
> > as good a transmitter of resonance as wood....
> >
> > Also, if you change a Strat's pickup mounting screws from the
> stock alloy
> > ones
> > to stainless steel, you will get a different sound, proving
that the
> > pickups do
> > get some resonance from their mounting points.
> >
> > I have also heard that you can use a doublenecker guitar to
prove
> this:
> >
> > Plug in one of a double neckers two "guitars" into an amp, but
<play>
> > the other one... The plugged in neck's pickup's are picking up
body
> > resonance
> > from the other one.
> >
> > I also know of a guy that had his Yamaha Roadstar stratoclone
> modded so
> > that the pickups were body mounted <under> the pickguard. He
did
> it for
> > the tonal
> > change.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:58:28 -0700
> > From: "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
> > Subject: Re: Digest Number 1236
> >
> > I don't know about your pickup mount conclusions, Michael, when
> you say
> > body-mounted pickups give a thicker "woodier" sound (whatever
that
> is).
> > Magnetic pick-ups capture the sound of moving steel strings not
the
> > vibrations of the pickup mounts. I think that any signifcant
> difference
> > you are hearing between guitars with body mounted pickups vs
pickguard
> > mounted is the different pickups. For instance, super strats may
> have a
> > humbucker at the bridge position or hotter single coil pickups.
> >
> > -Marty
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael S Springer
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Digest Number 1236
> >
> >
> > ...Both the Jaguar and the Jazzmaster have body mounted
pickups,
> > a trait shared with pickguardless "superstrats". This gives
the
> guitar
> > a
> > thicker
> > woodier sound. The Strats pickups are pickguard mounted.
> > Aside from giving the Strat part of it's sound characteristcs,
> > it makes it much easer to work on since most of the wiring and
> > electronics are
> > attached to the pickguard.
> > Loosen the strings, remove 11 screws and desolder 3 wires,
> > and the whole pickguard and everything attached to it comes
off.
> > It's practically modular. Very easy to see whats going on in
the
> > wiring
> > and modify it.
> > It's the most hot roddable guitar design there is!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In , Michael S Springer
<springerms@j...> wrote:
>
> You see, it's more complex than that:
> It took me a while to see it, but
> not only is the string vibrating in relation to the pickup,
> but the pickups are themselves vibrating in response to
> vibrations transmitted from the bridge through the body through their
> mounts, either on the body or on a pickguard.
>
> The vibration of the pickup in response to the body provides
> the richness of the tone, similar to the sound chamber of an acoustic
> guitar,
> since the sound waves take longer to vibrated throught the body to the
> pickup.
>
No....I don't think so. You actually do not want the pickup to
vibrate; this is one of the ways you can produce feedback. For
example, early electric guitars were just acoustic hollow bodies with
pickups slapped onto them. The arch tops would resonate with the
strings, vibrating the mounted pickup, and hence feedback. That's when
various people "thought outside the box" and came up with the solid
body guitar. Sure the pickups probably do vibrate as a result of
resonating with the strings on a solid body guitar, but it would be so
very small I doubt very much you could get enough current out of that
effect alone to make it to the amp.
>
> Also, if you change a Strat's pickup mounting screws from the stock
alloy
> ones
> to stainless steel, you will get a different sound, proving that the
> pickups do
> get some resonance from their mounting points.
I find this very difficult to believe. This goes up there with writing
on CD's with blue magic marker in my book.
>
> I have also heard that you can use a doublenecker guitar to prove this:
>
> Plug in one of a double neckers two "guitars" into an amp, but <play>
> the other one... The plugged in neck's pickup's are picking up body
> resonance
> from the other one.
I would like to try/see/hear this. I would hazard a guess that the
pickups on the other neck are just detecting the changing magnetic
field around the other neck, resulting in a very weak signal. I don't
think the heavy mass of an electric guitar body, especially a double
necker, would vibrate enough to induce a signal on a pickup. It may
also be that the other set of strings, under high tension, could
resonate over the other pickups. You could test that by muting the
other strings with your hand/arm while playing the other set.
All IMHO of course.
BN
When you play the one part of the guitar the strings on the other
vibrate slightly. It isn't the pickups picking up the resonance. It is
the strings vibrating from it.
>
> I have also heard that you can use a doublenecker guitar to prove this:
>
> Plug in one of a double neckers two "guitars" into an amp, but <play>
> the other one... The plugged in neck's pickup's are picking up body
> resonance
> from the other one.
>doesn't make sense to me, since I always understood that the pick up
>doesn't pick up mechanical vibrations - it induces a sine wave in the
>magnet due to the string vibrations, but that works electronically
>not mechanically. (sorry my terminology sucks in english)
As a matter of fact it is the vibration of the string that causes a change
in the magnetic field of the pick up wich induces an electrical signal into
the coil of the pick up. But physically it does not matter who is vibrating;
If the string would be at rest and the pick up would vibrate above the
string the result would be the same. Besides, the amoebae that is sitting on
your string would swear it is the guitar that is vibrating and not the
string.
So the vibration of the pick up also changes the magnetic field that also
induces a sine wave. And if the use of stainless steel screws changes the
way the pick up vibrates then yes it changes the sound of your guitar.
Wether it can be hear however is another question.
I mean, it is all very complex which makes that we will always have
something to argue about on this list.
Roland Bettenville
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, guys,
I admit that there are enough differences
between the superstratoid and the MIM Strat to render
the comparison "unscientific".
But the pickup mounting method is the most glaring difference,
since the fingerboard material and trem blocks are the same.
I have also noticed that minor tweaks on a Strat pickguard
produce an effect on the tone,
such as the tightness or looseness of the mounting screws,
(small but noticeable as an A/B to me)
or the alloy of the pickguard and pickup mounting screws
( I think I notice a bit more of a difference with this <if>
more than half of the screws are swapped out.
I tend to prefer stainless steel for many, but not all electric guitar
applications)
This lets me know that resonance <is> being transmitted back
to the pickup via the mounting method, and the mounting method
(and the materials used)
is therefore not a trivial consideration.
While I know there are magnetic things going on, I can't
see how such tweaks would affect <that>.
The acid test would be to <body mount> the pickups in that particular
Strat... but that makes me nervous... I don't have drill press, and
I was NOT that good at wood shop! I prefer reversible experiments
that won't damage my guitars.
Somewhere someone <must've> done some research on this...
might make interesting reading if one could procure it and wade through
it!
Keep on pickin',
Michael
