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Bruce,
-Not trying to get you or the Shadows thing going again, But...
you do know that The Shadows did Apache first don't you?
But they didn't get any record company push here inthe states.
Then Jorgen Ingman did a cover of it, and whatever lable he was on,
pushed to have it distributed and played on radio over here.
I know the string scrapes are the Hallmark of the Ingman version,
But I think the Shadows version is better.
Just my humble opinion
Jeff(bigtikidude)
-- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Michael:
>
> I can't believe the lack of answers you've received, so here goes:
> Best of luck and results in your musical endeavors!
>
> Bruce D.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> Apache - (JORGEN INGMANN); The Savage - (THE SHADOWS);
Hey Jeff,
Always good to hear from you. I know the story goes that The Shadows were first
to record Apache, but (go figure) a Danish dude named Ingmann got his version
released in the U.S. and the rest is history. I don't really have a favorite
version - I think the first recordings done by The Shadows, Jorgen Ingmann, The
Ventures, and of course, Davie Allan and The Arrows, are all superb renderings
of the same song, just interpreted somewhat differently.
Interestingly, although The Ventures became famous for the string swipes, their
original studio version used a vocal "whoosh" delivered through much echo, for
an eerie attempt at the sound of feathered arrows shooting through the air.
Were it not for that little touch, I would vote for Davie Allan's "Apache '65"
version as the best of the best!
There was always something enchanting about The Shadows approach, but they just
couldn't compete with the dramatic energy of Davie Allan and The Arrows, IMHO.
Best Regards,
Bruce D
Jeff <> wrote:
Bruce,
-Not trying to get you or the Shadows thing going again, But...
you do know that The Shadows did Apache first don't you?
But they didn't get any record company push here inthe states.
Then Jorgen Ingman did a cover of it, and whatever lable he was on,
pushed to have it distributed and played on radio over here.
I know the string scrapes are the Hallmark of the Ingman version,
But I think the Shadows version is better.
Just my humble opinion
Jeff(bigtikidude)
-- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Michael:
>
> I can't believe the lack of answers you've received, so here goes:
> Best of luck and results in your musical endeavors!
>
> Bruce D.
>
> THE LIST:
>
> Apache - (JORGEN INGMANN); The Savage - (THE SHADOWS);
.
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-Hey Bruce,
I actually picked up that Davie Allen record Apache 65 for .50
cents at a garage sale, along with the Ventures Wild Things record
for 2 dollars.
Guess I'll have to break out that DA record and give it a listen
again.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
-- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
wrote:
> Hey Jeff,
>
> Always good to hear from you. I know the story goes that The
Shadows were first to record Apache, but (go figure) a Danish dude
named Ingmann got his version released in the U.S. and the rest is
history. I don't really have a favorite version - I think the first
recordings done by The Shadows, Jorgen Ingmann, The Ventures, and of
course, Davie Allan and The Arrows, are all superb renderings of the
same song, just interpreted somewhat differently.
>
> Interestingly, although The Ventures became famous for the string
swipes, their original studio version used a vocal "whoosh"
delivered through much echo, for an eerie attempt at the sound of
feathered arrows shooting through the air. Were it not for that
little touch, I would vote for Davie Allan's "Apache '65" version as
the best of the best!
>
> There was always something enchanting about The Shadows approach,
but they just couldn't compete with the dramatic energy of Davie
Allan and The Arrows, IMHO.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bruce D
>
>
> Jeff <bigtikidude@y...> wrote:
>
> Bruce,
> -Not trying to get you or the Shadows thing going again, But...
> you do know that The Shadows did Apache first don't you?
> But they didn't get any record company push here inthe states.
> Then Jorgen Ingman did a cover of it, and whatever lable he was on,
> pushed to have it distributed and played on radio over here.
> I know the string scrapes are the Hallmark of the Ingman version,
> But I think the Shadows version is better.
> Just my humble opinion
> Jeff(bigtikidude)
>
>
>
>
> -- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Michael:
> >
> > I can't believe the lack of answers you've received, so here goes:
> > Best of luck and results in your musical endeavors!
> >
> > Bruce D.
> >
> > THE LIST:
> >
> > Apache - (JORGEN INGMANN); The Savage - (THE SHADOWS);
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Interestingly, although The Ventures became famous for the string
> swipes, their original studio version used a vocal "whoosh"
> delivered through much echo, for an eerie attempt at the sound of
> feathered arrows shooting through the air. Were it not for that
> little touch, I would vote for Davie Allan's "Apache '65" version as
> the best of the best!
Yeesh, so you're saying you actually like the Ventures recorded
version of Apache? Sorry, but that has to be the worest! It's so
slow, it'd consider it a snoozefest. I even like the Shadows version
over the recorded version of the Ventures. They don't do the cool "f
riff" that Hank does right before breaking into the outro, that part
MAKES the song. The Ventures Live in Japan is my favorite version of
that song(everything on that album is my favorite version). So much
energy, and although politically in-correct, what the Japanese m.c
says before the song always makes me crack up.
I do agree about the Arrows version of the song, Davie puts it in a
different key, and really plays the hell out of it. I think my
favorite version lies somewhere inbetween the "Shads," "Live in '65,"
and "Davie's version."
Well, you are certainly more than entitled to your tastes, as I am most entitled
to mine.
IMHO, Apache is best played as a slow, dark, moody dirge to a largely vanished
tribe of brave warriors. No one did that quite as well as The Ventures IMHO,
and the echoed "whoosh" effects in their original studio recording only added to
that eerie, dark ghostly moodiness.
Having grown up on Classical Orchestral and Symphonic music, I am especially
sensitive to the musician's use of dynamics and tempo, to set a mood. Nuance is
everything, and the only other version of Apache that projects that mood as
effectively is the Jorgan Ingmann version that The Ventures were, after all,
covering.
When we play Apache live, I always do that "F" thing right before the outro,
because I, like you, consider that to have been a major enhancement (Thanks
Hank!) to the song. We should enjoy the version we especially like, however, I
think you're a bit abrupt in brushing off The Ventures rendition as "one of the
worst". As much as I liked the other versions, that original cover from their
Telstar album, still stands as one of the eeriest, moodiest renditions of the
song, IMHO.
There are songs better suited to being played "balls to the wall" IMHO, doing
that to Apache is somewhat untrue to what that song is all about.
Peace,
Bruce D
supertwangreverb <> wrote:
> > Interestingly, although The Ventures became famous for the string
> swipes, their original studio version used a vocal "whoosh"
> delivered through much echo, for an eerie attempt at the sound of
> feathered arrows shooting through the air. Were it not for that
> little touch, I would vote for Davie Allan's "Apache '65" version as
> the best of the best!
Yeesh, so you're saying you actually like the Ventures recorded
version of Apache? Sorry, but that has to be the worest! It's so
slow, it'd consider it a snoozefest. I even like the Shadows version
over the recorded version of the Ventures. They don't do the cool "f
riff" that Hank does right before breaking into the outro, that part
MAKES the song. The Ventures Live in Japan is my favorite version of
that song(everything on that album is my favorite version). So much
energy, and although politically in-correct, what the Japanese m.c
says before the song always makes me crack up.
I do agree about the Arrows version of the song, Davie puts it in a
different key, and really plays the hell out of it. I think my
favorite version lies somewhere inbetween the "Shads," "Live in '65,"
and "Davie's version."
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok, I don't think any of the versions of Apache I listed would be
considered as being played "balls to the wall"
I think the Shadows version is very moody, and I like that version.
The Ventures is just REALLY slow and doesn't convey the same energy
that is behind the Shadows, if I heard the Ventures recorded version
live in a bar I'd fall asleep. Just because there's energy doesn't
mean it has to be fast. That building "f riff" that we both like,
comes in like thunder when Hank plays it.
And ah, aren't you the guy who was raving about Davie Allen's
version? That's anything but dark or moody, the drummer is playing
it like a rock'n'roll song. Not a very moody or eerie take of
Apache.
These are just my opinions.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
--- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
wrote:
> Well, you are certainly more than entitled to your tastes, as I am
most entitled to mine.
>
> IMHO, Apache is best played as a slow, dark, moody dirge to a
largely vanished tribe of brave warriors. No one did that quite as
well as The Ventures IMHO, and the echoed "whoosh" effects in their
original studio recording only added to that eerie, dark ghostly
moodiness.
>
> Having grown up on Classical Orchestral and Symphonic music, I am
especially sensitive to the musician's use of dynamics and tempo, to
set a mood. Nuance is everything, and the only other version of
Apache that projects that mood as effectively is the Jorgan Ingmann
version that The Ventures were, after all, covering.
>
> When we play Apache live, I always do that "F" thing right before
the outro, because I, like you, consider that to have been a major
enhancement (Thanks Hank!) to the song. We should enjoy the version
we especially like, however, I think you're a bit abrupt in brushing
off The Ventures rendition as "one of the worst". As much as I
liked the other versions, that original cover from their Telstar
album, still stands as one of the eeriest, moodiest renditions of
the song, IMHO.
>
> There are songs better suited to being played "balls to the wall"
IMHO, doing that to Apache is somewhat untrue to what that song is
all about.
>
> Peace,
>
> Bruce D
>
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> > > Interestingly, although The Ventures became famous for the
string
> > swipes, their original studio version used a vocal "whoosh"
> > delivered through much echo, for an eerie attempt at the sound
of
> > feathered arrows shooting through the air. Were it not for that
> > little touch, I would vote for Davie Allan's "Apache '65"
version as
> > the best of the best!
>
> Yeesh, so you're saying you actually like the Ventures recorded
> version of Apache? Sorry, but that has to be the worest! It's so
> slow, it'd consider it a snoozefest. I even like the Shadows
version
> over the recorded version of the Ventures. They don't do the
cool "f
> riff" that Hank does right before breaking into the outro, that
part
> MAKES the song. The Ventures Live in Japan is my favorite version
of
> that song(everything on that album is my favorite version). So
much
> energy, and although politically in-correct, what the Japanese m.c
> says before the song always makes me crack up.
>
> I do agree about the Arrows version of the song, Davie puts it in
a
> different key, and really plays the hell out of it. I think my
> favorite version lies somewhere inbetween the "Shads," "Live
in '65,"
> and "Davie's version."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Davie's rendition of Apache comes real close to "balls to the wall" as far as
any version I've yet heard. His version of the song made a big impression on
me, because prior to Apache '65, the only other version I'd heard was Jorgen
Ingmann's, and although I think he was a terrific guitarist, his version IMHO
was totally MOR compared with The Ventures' take.
I loved the entire Apache '65 album - Davie's intensity was infectious, and it
was the first Instro album I ever owned. I purchased it in the cut-out bin at
Thrifty Drug in 1968, and in 2003, when we played a joint gig with Davie Allan
and The Arrows, I had him autograph that very same original album!
However, when I bought the Telstar/Lonely Bull album, I was blown away at the
way The Ventures' Apache hit me - I could close my eyes and visualize the tribal
ghosts mourning the Old West and their extinction at the hands of the White man.
Put to sleep? Their version of the song, along with their never-duplicated
guitar magic on the original 1960 recording of Walk, Don't Run, were what caused
me to give up my dreams of being a concert violinist, and take up electric
guitar!
Nowadays, middle aged and jaded, those old recordings don't have quite the same
impact on me that they did nearly 40 years ago, but I can still vividly recall
how, at age 15 they galvanized this scholarship-awarded Classical violin player
into dropping nearly 10 years of study, to learn how to play Rock & Roll guitar!
It would be a very dreary and boring world if we all thought alike, and all
liked exactly the same things!
Bruce D
supertwangreverb <> wrote:
Ok, I don't think any of the versions of Apache I listed would be
considered as being played "balls to the wall"
I think the Shadows version is very moody, and I like that version.
The Ventures is just REALLY slow and doesn't convey the same energy
that is behind the Shadows, if I heard the Ventures recorded version
live in a bar I'd fall asleep. Just because there's energy doesn't
mean it has to be fast. That building "f riff" that we both like,
comes in like thunder when Hank plays it.
And ah, aren't you the guy who was raving about Davie Allen's
version? That's anything but dark or moody, the drummer is playing
it like a rock'n'roll song. Not a very moody or eerie take of
Apache.
These are just my opinions.
Bill
www.reluctantaquanauts.com
--- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
wrote:
> Well, you are certainly more than entitled to your tastes, as I am
most entitled to mine.
>
> IMHO, Apache is best played as a slow, dark, moody dirge to a
largely vanished tribe of brave warriors. No one did that quite as
well as The Ventures IMHO, and the echoed "whoosh" effects in their
original studio recording only added to that eerie, dark ghostly
moodiness.
>
> Having grown up on Classical Orchestral and Symphonic music, I am
especially sensitive to the musician's use of dynamics and tempo, to
set a mood. Nuance is everything, and the only other version of
Apache that projects that mood as effectively is the Jorgan Ingmann
version that The Ventures were, after all, covering.
>
> When we play Apache live, I always do that "F" thing right before
the outro, because I, like you, consider that to have been a major
enhancement (Thanks Hank!) to the song. We should enjoy the version
we especially like, however, I think you're a bit abrupt in brushing
off The Ventures rendition as "one of the worst". As much as I
liked the other versions, that original cover from their Telstar
album, still stands as one of the eeriest, moodiest renditions of
the song, IMHO.
>
> There are songs better suited to being played "balls to the wall"
IMHO, doing that to Apache is somewhat untrue to what that song is
all about.
>
> Peace,
>
> Bruce D
>
>
> supertwangreverb <supertwangreverb@y...> wrote:
>
> > > Interestingly, although The Ventures became famous for the
string
> > swipes, their original studio version used a vocal "whoosh"
> > delivered through much echo, for an eerie attempt at the sound
of
> > feathered arrows shooting through the air. Were it not for that
> > little touch, I would vote for Davie Allan's "Apache '65"
version as
> > the best of the best!
>
> Yeesh, so you're saying you actually like the Ventures recorded
> version of Apache? Sorry, but that has to be the worest! It's so
> slow, it'd consider it a snoozefest. I even like the Shadows
version
> over the recorded version of the Ventures. They don't do the
cool "f
> riff" that Hank does right before breaking into the outro, that
part
> MAKES the song. The Ventures Live in Japan is my favorite version
of
> that song(everything on that album is my favorite version). So
much
> energy, and although politically in-correct, what the Japanese m.c
> says before the song always makes me crack up.
>
> I do agree about the Arrows version of the song, Davie puts it in
a
> different key, and really plays the hell out of it. I think my
> favorite version lies somewhere inbetween the "Shads," "Live
in '65,"
> and "Davie's version."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
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Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
wrote:
> Davie's rendition of Apache comes real close to "balls to the
wall" as far as any version I've yet heard. His version of the song
made a big impression on me, because prior to Apache '65, the only
other version I'd heard was Jorgen Ingmann's, and although I think
he was a terrific guitarist, his version IMHO was totally MOR
compared with The Ventures' take.
>
One of the earliest 45 rpm's I ever had was Ingmann's 'Apache' on
Atco Records---I still have it too. Something magical about his
version, and remains the 'standard' for me. Which is not to say the
others mentioned here and elsewhere aren't worthwhile, mind you. I
dig 'em all. When I did my interview with Davie Allan in Calella
Spain last year, he acknowledged the beauty of Jorgen's take on the
tune. You will be able to hear that interview on Twang Shebang #20
now in the planning stages, taping in about 2 weeks. Plus the
Shadows did killer versions of other Jerry Lordon compositions as
well, such as "Wonderful Land", and I believe another
called "Diamonds". Such majesty and beauty in these tracks. Great
stuff.
Unsteady Freddie
--- bruce d <> wrote:
> Davie's rendition of Apache comes real close to
> "balls to the wall" as far as any version I've yet
> heard.
The Turbo AC's version is most certainly "balls to the
wall."
Richard
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Yeah, but The Turbo AC's are self described as a Trash/Punk Band with a hint of
Surf, and they've not been on my playlist because I prefer my Surf Music
straight.
Richard <> wrote:
--- bruce d <> wrote:
> Davie's rendition of Apache comes real close to
> "balls to the wall" as far as any version I've yet
> heard.
The Turbo AC's version is most certainly "balls to the
wall."
Richard
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