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--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
>
> --- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
> wrote:
> > I don't think Dolton Records would have made the claim that The
> Ventures had toured Great Britain, if the claim couldn't be backed
> up - and yet, on their "On Stage" LP from the 1960's, are two or
> three songs, supposedly performed in G.B. - Ivan, do you want to
call
> this an outright lie?
>
> Yes. The On Stage LP was not actually live performances, and all
the
> MC and audience stuff was dubbed in. They never played in the UK.
> It was pure propaganda/promotion.
OK, I just checked the liner notes to the See For Miles issue of "On
Stage/Surfing". Here is what it says:
"What was different about The Ventures On Stage set was that... the
sleeve had along the top 'Recorded in Japan, the US and England"!
There were even photographs of these US and English gigs on the back
cover. For those of us still waiting after pushing forty years, we
can vouch that the guitar heroes never played on English soil! The
concert was an honest one, but the applause was partially dubbed in
from the response to a Japanese visit - the whole concert was in fact
recorded in Japan! What was even worse on the pressing itself was
this purported up-market English voice saying 'And now for their
first appearance in England...' Miraculously, by the time the album
got its release in the UK in November 1965, the sleeve had been
amended, deleting any references to English or US appearances.
Furthermore, the verbals on the record had been excised with the
exception of a Japanese announcer introducing the group, which we
were tempted to agree with. Still, it was 1965 and all's fair in
love and album sales, eh?"
So, I remembered wrongly that it wasn't recorded live, but everything
else I said is true. That's the thing about the Ventures - either
they or their management or record company would do whatever to make
a buck. It always seemed that the Shadows had much more integrity
and were INTO their music as a passion rather than as a business. My
impression was always that to the Ventures it was mostly a business.
Thus all the cuts where it was all studio players and no Ventures,
etc.
Ivan
PS God, it drives me crazy on that On Stage album when the announcer
says something like (for the England portion of the album, no less -
some nerve!!!): "And now with their giant hit, Apache!!!!" The
Ventures never had a hit with Apache anywhere, as far as I know, and
certainly not in England. Can you believe those cajones?
I did a quick Google search, and not much came up on The Ventures On
Stage being a fake...except for this page:
Here they are talking primarily about a "live" Stones record (Got Live
If You Want It) which wasn't really live.
If you scroll down the page, a user named "mikey5967" makes the
following comments:
"As bad as GLIYWI is, try The Ventures On Stage, Around The World".
They overdubbed the SAME applause after every track!! The same guy
whistles in the same place!!! Every Track!!
On top of that, the overdubbed Don Wilsons voice in the studio (clear as
a bell) announcing "Heres One We Did on a Single Record.....Slaughter On
10th Avenue". Its so clear, its funny.
The really wierd thing is that these are truly live recordings, made in
Japan. he Japanese audiences were so polite that Liberty felt they HAD
to overdub crown noise to kmake the concert seem real.
As always, The Ventures playing is just GREAT, tho."
Perhaps these "live albums" were a reaction to the success the Beatles
had with theirs...? I can't be sure because I don't have the dates in
front of me. The Beatles Live at the Hollywood Bowl is what I am
thinking of....as I recall, that album had more screaming girls than
music on it.
BN
Yeah, I think that's what happened, Brian. The Japanese audience was too polite
and with the Beatles and Beach Boys setting the norm with screaming audiences,
the label was compelled to sweeten the Ventures live album with additional
applause. Some say the "On Stage Around the World" is totally fake. But their
aren't any overdubs and it sounds purdy much like they did on the true Japanese
live albums of the day. Another possibility is that the Ventures went into a
studio and recorded one of their rehearsals for a Japan tour and then slapped on
the applause.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Neal
To:
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] The Ventures have NEVER played in England!
I did a quick Google search, and not much came up on The Ventures On
Stage being a fake...except for this page:
Here they are talking primarily about a "live" Stones record (Got Live
If You Want It) which wasn't really live.
If you scroll down the page, a user named "mikey5967" makes the
following comments:
"As bad as GLIYWI is, try The Ventures On Stage, Around The World".
They overdubbed the SAME applause after every track!! The same guy
whistles in the same place!!! Every Track!!
On top of that, the overdubbed Don Wilsons voice in the studio (clear as
a bell) announcing "Heres One We Did on a Single Record.....Slaughter On
10th Avenue". Its so clear, its funny.
The really wierd thing is that these are truly live recordings, made in
Japan. he Japanese audiences were so polite that Liberty felt they HAD
to overdub crown noise to kmake the concert seem real.
As always, The Ventures playing is just GREAT, tho."
Perhaps these "live albums" were a reaction to the success the Beatles
had with theirs...? I can't be sure because I don't have the dates in
front of me. The Beatles Live at the Hollywood Bowl is what I am
thinking of....as I recall, that album had more screaming girls than
music on it.
BN
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No two ways about it, the Shads had more integrity. The Ventures were indeed
mostly a business with their rushing out 4 albums a year. They recorded their
Batman album within one week writing the originals in the studio on the fly and
within two weeks the album was in the stores. Yet I contend that that's not a
bad way to do it in Rock and Roll. Many of the best songs are written on the
fly. If ya go the carefully crafted route, ya lose the "it's only rock and
roll" spirit. The Batman album may have had a strictly-commercial intended goal,
yet it stands among the best Ventures albums. And it's not an isolated incident.
Most of those Fender and Mosrite era albums were put out quickly.
In the '60's there are only two Ventures cuts, "Wipe Out" and "More" that were
all session players. In the '70's there is a complete "New Ventures" disco album
that is all session players with the Ventures acting as producers.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:00 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] The Ventures have NEVER played in England!
... It always seemed that the Shadows had much more integrity
and were INTO their music as a passion rather than as a business. My
impression was always that to the Ventures it was mostly a business.
Thus all the cuts where it was all studio players and no Ventures,
etc.
Ivan
PS God, it drives me crazy on that On Stage album when the announcer
says something like (for the England portion of the album, no less -
some nerve!!!): "And now with their giant hit, Apache!!!!" The
Ventures never had a hit with Apache anywhere, as far as I know, and
certainly not in England. Can you believe those cajones?
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the authoritative info Ivan. I never knew one way or the other - but
it seemed much too outrageous for Dolton, and the Ventures producers to have
actually told a bald-faced lie about something you would think would come back
and bite 'em you-know-where!
I know Bob and Don, in an interview not too long ago, said they were never
consulted by Dolton, prior to the release of "The Ventures On Stage", and they
thoroughly disapproved of the album, and felt very uncomfortable with Dolton for
having released it, because it greatly offended their sense of ethics to have a
bunch of studio recordings faked-up into sounding like live performances. For
all that, they didn't mention the fictitious British appearances.
I would agree there was a lot of business-think involved in how The Ventures
planned and went about things. Still, they were, and are able to capture
musical moments that were pure magic - and for their sharing that magic with the
rest of us, I'll always be a big fan.
It's interesting to listen to any of Les Fradkin's CD's, from "Splash" to "A Day
at the Beach" he sounds so much influenced by the mid-60's Ventures sound, it's
eerie sometimes! But out of those 29 tracks, there ain't a single one I could
call "filler". Sad to say, there were few Ventures albums where at least
one-third of the tracks weren't utterly forgettable. Still they remain one of
my favorite bands of all time, if for nothing else than having given us their
original recording of "Walk Don't Run".
Bruce D
ipongrac <> wrote:
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
>
> --- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...>
> wrote:
> > I don't think Dolton Records would have made the claim that The
> Ventures had toured Great Britain, if the claim couldn't be backed
> up - and yet, on their "On Stage" LP from the 1960's, are two or
> three songs, supposedly performed in G.B. - Ivan, do you want to
call
> this an outright lie?
>
> Yes. The On Stage LP was not actually live performances, and all
the
> MC and audience stuff was dubbed in. They never played in the UK.
> It was pure propaganda/promotion.
OK, I just checked the liner notes to the See For Miles issue of "On
Stage/Surfing". Here is what it says:
"What was different about The Ventures On Stage set was that... the
sleeve had along the top 'Recorded in Japan, the US and England"!
There were even photographs of these US and English gigs on the back
cover. For those of us still waiting after pushing forty years, we
can vouch that the guitar heroes never played on English soil! The
concert was an honest one, but the applause was partially dubbed in
from the response to a Japanese visit - the whole concert was in fact
recorded in Japan! What was even worse on the pressing itself was
this purported up-market English voice saying 'And now for their
first appearance in England...' Miraculously, by the time the album
got its release in the UK in November 1965, the sleeve had been
amended, deleting any references to English or US appearances.
Furthermore, the verbals on the record had been excised with the
exception of a Japanese announcer introducing the group, which we
were tempted to agree with. Still, it was 1965 and all's fair in
love and album sales, eh?"
So, I remembered wrongly that it wasn't recorded live, but everything
else I said is true. That's the thing about the Ventures - either
they or their management or record company would do whatever to make
a buck. It always seemed that the Shadows had much more integrity
and were INTO their music as a passion rather than as a business. My
impression was always that to the Ventures it was mostly a business.
Thus all the cuts where it was all studio players and no Ventures,
etc.
Ivan
PS God, it drives me crazy on that On Stage album when the announcer
says something like (for the England portion of the album, no less -
some nerve!!!): "And now with their giant hit, Apache!!!!" The
Ventures never had a hit with Apache anywhere, as far as I know, and
certainly not in England. Can you believe those cajones?
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Personally, after the first couple of records, I
thought the Ventures were like many of the studio
projects bands of the day, except that they acfually
existed. But then, the Shadows seemed that way to me
as well, though I didn't really look at it in the
beginning. I was initially turned off to them after
buying "Surfing With The Shadows" on Atlantic, only to
discover it wasn't surf at all. It took decades to
muster up enough interest to go back and even give
them another listen, much as it did with the Ventures
once they drifted off reverb. Both bands still boil
down to a small percentage of tracks from their vasts
archives, more from the Ventures because of the shear
volume of tracks.
Also significant in differentiation for me is that the
Ventures stayed more in a rock 'n' roll vein, while
the Shadows did a lot of easy/soft music, which is an
area I seldom take notice of.
Both were accomplished musicians and capable of great
things, as well as mediocrity. I do think the Shadows
were more serious about music per say than the
Ventures, maybe took their place in music more
seriously. The Ventures seemed to be more of a music
machine, cranking out income streams at will. This is
how the music business works, like it or not. Both
seemed to retain some control over most of their
career, unlike many, and, much to their credit, both
have sustained for a very long time.
Phil
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
---------------------------------
No two ways about it, the Shads had more integrity.
The Ventures were indeed mostly a business with their
rushing out 4 albums a year. They recorded their
Batman album within one week writing the originals in
the studio on the fly and within two weeks the album
was in the stores. Yet I contend that that's not a bad
way to do it in Rock and Roll. Many of the best songs
are written on the fly. If ya go the carefully crafted
route, ya lose the "it's only rock and roll" spirit.
The Batman album may have had a strictly-commercial
intended goal, yet it stands among the best Ventures
albums. And it's not an isolated incident. Most of
those Fender and Mosrite era albums were put out
quickly.
In the '60's there are only two Ventures cuts, "Wipe
Out" and "More" that were all session players. In the
'70's there is a complete "New Ventures" disco album
that is all session players with the Ventures acting
as producers.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: ipongrac
To:
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:00 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] The Ventures have NEVER
played in England!
... It always seemed that the Shadows had much more
integrity
and were INTO their music as a passion rather than
as a business. My
impression was always that to the Ventures it was
mostly a business.
Thus all the cuts where it was all studio players
and no Ventures,
etc.
Ivan
PS God, it drives me crazy on that On Stage album
when the announcer
says something like (for the England portion of the
album, no less -
some nerve!!!): "And now with their giant hit,
Apache!!!!" The
Ventures never had a hit with Apache anywhere, as
far as I know, and
certainly not in England. Can you believe those
cajones?
.
Visit
for archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
Visit for
archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.
=====
