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In the band I am in we are quite lucky. The lead guitarist and I
almost always write the songs together. Most of the time I bring in a
chords progression and play it while Eric comes up with several
things. They may all be good and a longer song is born. Then
separately, from the verse, we work on a melody for a chorus with me
playing the rhythm and him the lead. It is a very nice process. We can
bang out several songs in the span of 2-3 hours.
Jacob Dobner of The 'Verb
--- In , "Johnston, Rick"
<rick.johnston@u...> wrote:
> I think it's clear that most of us start with a riff or some never
used
> before chord progression...
>
>
>
> But I wanted to ask how some of you approach more of the writing
process?
>
> Do you write Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus Bridge, Chorus, Chorus
>
> Or use any kind of set pattern to develop a complete song???
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In the Surfites, me and my brother don't write any songs together. On
the eventual debut album, we will have 7 originals each. The one of
us who have written the tune will play the lead and the other one the
rhythm guitar. In my former band, the Daytonas, we had 4 out of 5
members writing individual songs!
Klas / The Surfites
(website recently updated with a new song clip "Dana Point", written
by my brother Jerk)
--- In , "jacobdobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
>
> In the band I am in we are quite lucky. The lead guitarist and I
> almost always write the songs together. Most of the time I bring in
a
> chords progression and play it while Eric comes up with several
> things. They may all be good and a longer song is born. Then
> separately, from the verse, we work on a melody for a chorus with me
> playing the rhythm and him the lead. It is a very nice process. We
can
> bang out several songs in the span of 2-3 hours.
>
> Jacob Dobner of The 'Verb
>
>
> --- In , "Johnston, Rick"
> <rick.johnston@u...> wrote:
> > I think it's clear that most of us start with a riff or some
never
> used
> > before chord progression...
> >
> >
> >
> > But I wanted to ask how some of you approach more of the writing
> process?
> >
> > Do you write Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus Bridge, Chorus,
Chorus
> >
> > Or use any kind of set pattern to develop a complete song???
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm the lousy writer in our band, our bassist however has come up
with some good stuff. He approaches it in much more conventional
ways than I do. I usually just have melodys or riffs in my head and
I try to put them together, sometimes I'll take two and make a verse
and a bridge. I usually look at it as, I need a way to start the
verse, a way to lead out of the verse into the bridge, and a way out
of the bridge. Do that twice and try to change it a little each
time. The Wedge is a great example, Dick basically plays the same
thing but he changes it just a little the 2nd time through. I try
to keep everything around 2 mins, and I'd rather be under than
over. I think when a surf song gets around 3 mins it's too long for
a crowd of drunk people.
Bill
www.myspace.com/reluctantaquanauts
--- In , "Klas Fjellgren"
<surfites@b...> wrote:
>
> In the Surfites, me and my brother don't write any songs together.
On
> the eventual debut album, we will have 7 originals each. The one
of
> us who have written the tune will play the lead and the other one
the
> rhythm guitar. In my former band, the Daytonas, we had 4 out of 5
> members writing individual songs!
>
> Klas / The Surfites
>
>
> (website recently updated with a new song clip "Dana Point",
written
> by my brother Jerk)
>
>
> --- In , "jacobdobner"
> <jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
> >
> > In the band I am in we are quite lucky. The lead guitarist and I
> > almost always write the songs together. Most of the time I bring
in
> a
> > chords progression and play it while Eric comes up with several
> > things. They may all be good and a longer song is born. Then
> > separately, from the verse, we work on a melody for a chorus
with me
> > playing the rhythm and him the lead. It is a very nice process.
We
> can
> > bang out several songs in the span of 2-3 hours.
> >
> > Jacob Dobner of The 'Verb
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Johnston, Rick"
> > <rick.johnston@u...> wrote:
> > > I think it's clear that most of us start with a riff or some
> never
> > used
> > > before chord progression...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But I wanted to ask how some of you approach more of the
writing
> > process?
> > >
> > > Do you write Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus Bridge,
Chorus,
> Chorus
> > >
> > > Or use any kind of set pattern to develop a complete song???
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've had as many as three of my brothers in the Planktones at one time but I've
rarely collaborated in the songwriting with them. I've contributed parts to a
couple of their tunes at their request. I haven't let down my ego enough to
allow them to contribute to mine. My youngest brother is often on me to let him
fiddle with my song ideas...nope! I keep thinking of how Tom Forgerty's younger
brother John ended up stealing the show in CCR. But then again, they made some
big money!
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Klas Fjellgren
To:
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:46 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
In the Surfites, me and my brother don't write any songs together. On
the eventual debut album, we will have 7 originals each. The one of
us who have written the tune will play the lead and the other one the
rhythm guitar. In my former band, the Daytonas, we had 4 out of 5
members writing individual songs!
Klas / The Surfites
(website recently updated with a new song clip "Dana Point", written
by my brother Jerk)
--- In , "jacobdobner"
<jacobdobner@y...> wrote:
>
> In the band I am in we are quite lucky. The lead guitarist and I
> almost always write the songs together. Most of the time I bring in
a
> chords progression and play it while Eric comes up with several
> things. They may all be good and a longer song is born. Then
> separately, from the verse, we work on a melody for a chorus with me
> playing the rhythm and him the lead. It is a very nice process. We
can
> bang out several songs in the span of 2-3 hours.
>
> Jacob Dobner of The 'Verb
>
>
> --- In , "Johnston, Rick"
> <rick.johnston@u...> wrote:
> > I think it's clear that most of us start with a riff or some
never
> used
> > before chord progression...
> >
> >
> >
> > But I wanted to ask how some of you approach more of the writing
> process?
> >
> > Do you write Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus Bridge, Chorus,
Chorus
> >
> > Or use any kind of set pattern to develop a complete song???
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I do most of the writing, our drummist fills in the drums usually,
apart from me going "I want to have a doinkydonrappaf fill here"
sorta thing.
it usually starts with a riff or melody at home on the couch... by
the time we get to the rehearsal room I usually have a pretty
outlined idea of what it should become, and I can go "do this, do
that, let's try such and so" to the rest, and then usally 3/4 of the
song is ready. We'll try if it needs a break or an extra bridge part,
usually thought up on the spot, sometimes a week later or so.
Soemone commented earlier that songs should be written quickly - I
don't what works for others, but in my case, i found that tghe songs
that were written in half an hour are usually the ones that stay in
the set, and that we stay interested in and enthusiastic about - the
ones that took a long time to write tend to loose their appeal
quickly.
but - I am a very loose player; once we start rehearsing the song,
I'll keep screwing around with it, try variations or different
melodies oand so, or styles to play (things like whammy yes/no,
trempick yes/no, octave up down, bleusy timing or not ) sometimes
i'll let the other guys(M/F) try something different too.
I used to write a lot with the recorder, laying down drums and bass
and then put on a number of layers of guitar, and then deciding what
to keep and what to throw away - but that is years ago with pop
music. I started out with the surf band like that too, but it didn't
work very well. the mp3 i sent brian for the mp3project was done that
way though, mariachi style sorta thing, and it turned out okay.
WR
Yeah WR,
If a rock (surf-rock in our discussion) song takes labor to write, it's probably
'cause it wasn't a great tune to begin with. The half hour spirts of inspiration
is where the gems come from. I don't mean that to be the law, I'm sure others
have counter experiences. I look forward to hearing your mariachi influenced
number.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: mono_tones_1
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:28 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
I do most of the writing, our drummist fills in the drums usually,
apart from me going "I want to have a doinkydonrappaf fill here"
sorta thing.
it usually starts with a riff or melody at home on the couch... by
the time we get to the rehearsal room I usually have a pretty
outlined idea of what it should become, and I can go "do this, do
that, let's try such and so" to the rest, and then usally 3/4 of the
song is ready. We'll try if it needs a break or an extra bridge part,
usually thought up on the spot, sometimes a week later or so.
Soemone commented earlier that songs should be written quickly - I
don't what works for others, but in my case, i found that tghe songs
that were written in half an hour are usually the ones that stay in
the set, and that we stay interested in and enthusiastic about - the
ones that took a long time to write tend to loose their appeal
quickly.
but - I am a very loose player; once we start rehearsing the song,
I'll keep screwing around with it, try variations or different
melodies oand so, or styles to play (things like whammy yes/no,
trempick yes/no, octave up down, bleusy timing or not ) sometimes
i'll let the other guys(M/F) try something different too.
I used to write a lot with the recorder, laying down drums and bass
and then put on a number of layers of guitar, and then deciding what
to keep and what to throw away - but that is years ago with pop
music. I started out with the surf band like that too, but it didn't
work very well. the mp3 i sent brian for the mp3project was done that
way though, mariachi style sorta thing, and it turned out okay.
WR
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If I don't have a great melody, chord progressions won't mean a thing.
So, as Marty has said, the good ones come fast. Anything else for me is
not worth the trouble.
Regards,
Les
On Feb 21, 2005, at 12:10 PM, Johnston, Rick wrote:
>
> I think it's clear that most of us start with a riff or some never
> used
> before chord progression...
>
>
>
> But I wanted to ask how some of you approach more of the writing
> process?
>
> Do you write Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus Bridge, Chorus, Chorus
>
> Or use any kind of set pattern to develop a complete song???
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yup marty, we seem to agree every now and then. This is what works
for me, Im sure for others different things work.
I bet you a case of Duvel that on some level it is related to
the 'ego' factor you brought up in one post or another - very
reconizable stuff - a subject for a new thread: are you in democratic
or in a despotic band? I'd say, for me, despotism is the only thing
that works. Either I follow the leader, shut up and play as I'm told,
or I call the shots.
more on this topic later.
wr
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Yeah WR,
>
> If a rock (surf-rock in our discussion) song takes labor to write,
it's probably 'cause it wasn't a great tune to begin with. The half
hour spirts of inspiration is where the gems come from. I don't mean
that to be the law, I'm sure others have counter experiences. I look
forward to hearing your mariachi influenced number.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mono_tones_1
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:28 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
>
>
>
> I do most of the writing, our drummist fills in the drums
usually,
> apart from me going "I want to have a doinkydonrappaf fill here"
> sorta thing.
>
> it usually starts with a riff or melody at home on the couch...
by
> the time we get to the rehearsal room I usually have a pretty
> outlined idea of what it should become, and I can go "do this, do
> that, let's try such and so" to the rest, and then usally 3/4 of
the
> song is ready. We'll try if it needs a break or an extra bridge
part,
> usually thought up on the spot, sometimes a week later or so.
>
> Soemone commented earlier that songs should be written quickly -
I
> don't what works for others, but in my case, i found that tghe
songs
> that were written in half an hour are usually the ones that stay
in
> the set, and that we stay interested in and enthusiastic about -
the
> ones that took a long time to write tend to loose their appeal
> quickly.
>
> but - I am a very loose player; once we start rehearsing the
song,
> I'll keep screwing around with it, try variations or different
> melodies oand so, or styles to play (things like whammy yes/no,
> trempick yes/no, octave up down, bleusy timing or not ) sometimes
> i'll let the other guys(M/F) try something different too.
>
> I used to write a lot with the recorder, laying down drums and
bass
> and then put on a number of layers of guitar, and then deciding
what
> to keep and what to throw away - but that is years ago with pop
> music. I started out with the surf band like that too, but it
didn't
> work very well. the mp3 i sent brian for the mp3project was done
that
> way though, mariachi style sorta thing, and it turned out okay.
>
> WR
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Very excellent new topic, WR. Yes, how are the bands run around here,
democratically, despotically or..? I am 65% dictator of the Plank-tones but the
shareholders (bandmembers) have a good say now and then. I get my payback with
the Boardwalkers, for whom I make with the sticks. In that band, bassist Mark
and I are almost total subjects of leader Dan. I've been in a full democratic
band as well and it worked for a while but I think I prefer a band with a leader
whether it's me or someone else.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: mono_tones_1
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
Yup marty, we seem to agree every now and then. This is what works
for me, Im sure for others different things work.
I bet you a case of Duvel that on some level it is related to
the 'ego' factor you brought up in one post or another - very
reconizable stuff - a subject for a new thread: are you in democratic
or in a despotic band? I'd say, for me, despotism is the only thing
that works. Either I follow the leader, shut up and play as I'm told,
or I call the shots.
more on this topic later.
wr
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Yeah WR,
>
> If a rock (surf-rock in our discussion) song takes labor to write,
it's probably 'cause it wasn't a great tune to begin with. The half
hour spirts of inspiration is where the gems come from. I don't mean
that to be the law, I'm sure others have counter experiences. I look
forward to hearing your mariachi influenced number.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mono_tones_1
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:28 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
>
>
>
> I do most of the writing, our drummist fills in the drums
usually,
> apart from me going "I want to have a doinkydonrappaf fill here"
> sorta thing.
>
> it usually starts with a riff or melody at home on the couch...
by
> the time we get to the rehearsal room I usually have a pretty
> outlined idea of what it should become, and I can go "do this, do
> that, let's try such and so" to the rest, and then usally 3/4 of
the
> song is ready. We'll try if it needs a break or an extra bridge
part,
> usually thought up on the spot, sometimes a week later or so.
>
> Soemone commented earlier that songs should be written quickly -
I
> don't what works for others, but in my case, i found that tghe
songs
> that were written in half an hour are usually the ones that stay
in
> the set, and that we stay interested in and enthusiastic about -
the
> ones that took a long time to write tend to loose their appeal
> quickly.
>
> but - I am a very loose player; once we start rehearsing the
song,
> I'll keep screwing around with it, try variations or different
> melodies oand so, or styles to play (things like whammy yes/no,
> trempick yes/no, octave up down, bleusy timing or not ) sometimes
> i'll let the other guys(M/F) try something different too.
>
> I used to write a lot with the recorder, laying down drums and
bass
> and then put on a number of layers of guitar, and then deciding
what
> to keep and what to throw away - but that is years ago with pop
> music. I started out with the surf band like that too, but it
didn't
> work very well. the mp3 i sent brian for the mp3project was done
that
> way though, mariachi style sorta thing, and it turned out okay.
>
> WR
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
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>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's often Intro AABA solo BA for me, Rick. A = verse, B = chorus
-Marty
On Feb 21, 2005, at 12:10 PM, Johnston, Rick wrote:
>
> I think it's clear that most of us start with a riff or some never
> used
> before chord progression...
>
>
>
> But I wanted to ask how some of you approach more of the writing
> process?
>
> Do you write Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus Bridge, Chorus, Chorus
>
> Or use any kind of set pattern to develop a complete song???
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Interesting, because that method's similar to what I do with a Ska vocal
band and it makes sense for my new ventures in surf...
No pun intended, NOT
-----Original Message-----
From: Marty Tippens [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:29 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Writing songs, the approach...
It's often Intro AABA solo BA for me, Rick. A = verse, B = chorus
-Marty
On Feb 21, 2005, at 12:10 PM, Johnston, Rick wrote:
>
> I think it's clear that most of us start with a riff or some never
> used
> before chord progression...
>
>
>
> But I wanted to ask how some of you approach more of the writing
> process?
>
> Do you write Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus Bridge, Chorus, Chorus
>
> Or use any kind of set pattern to develop a complete song???
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit
<> for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
.
Visit
<> for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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<> Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Another part of the song writing process that I find important is to
give the song a cool and suitable title which isn't always that easy.
There are quite a few occasions over the years when I have come up
with a fitting title, just to find out it has already been taken by
another band.
A good place to check if a title is already taken is the French
Instromania website which have a search feature where you can just
type in the title you want to check:
Klas / The Surfites
Yeah, a good title can inspire a good tune. It's legal for songs to have the
same title but I know what you mean, Klas, if your lookin for a cool title, you
want it to be original.
----- Original Message -----
From: Klas Fjellgren
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:07 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
Another part of the song writing process that I find important is to
give the song a cool and suitable title which isn't always that easy.
There are quite a few occasions over the years when I have come up
with a fitting title, just to find out it has already been taken by
another band.
A good place to check if a title is already taken is the French
Instromania website which have a search feature where you can just
type in the title you want to check:
Klas / The Surfites
.
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bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Also, you wouldn't want people to think it's a cover when it's
actually an original.
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Yeah, a good title can inspire a good tune. It's legal for songs to
have the same title but I know what you mean, Klas, if your lookin
for a cool title, you want it to be original.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Klas Fjellgren
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:07 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
>
>
>
> Another part of the song writing process that I find important is
to
> give the song a cool and suitable title which isn't always that
easy.
> There are quite a few occasions over the years when I have come
up
> with a fitting title, just to find out it has already been taken
by
> another band.
>
> A good place to check if a title is already taken is the French
> Instromania website which have a search feature where you can
just
> type in the title you want to check:
>
>
>
> Klas / The Surfites
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
True.
Man, how many songs are entitled "Heartbreaker"? Led Zep, Grand Funk, Heart, Bee
Gees, Pat Benetar...no two are the same tune.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Klas Fjellgren
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:55 AM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
Also, you wouldn't want people to think it's a cover when it's
actually an original.
--- In , "Marty Tippens"
<mctippens@e...> wrote:
> Yeah, a good title can inspire a good tune. It's legal for songs to
have the same title but I know what you mean, Klas, if your lookin
for a cool title, you want it to be original.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Klas Fjellgren
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:07 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
>
>
>
> Another part of the song writing process that I find important is
to
> give the song a cool and suitable title which isn't always that
easy.
> There are quite a few occasions over the years when I have come
up
> with a fitting title, just to find out it has already been taken
by
> another band.
>
> A good place to check if a title is already taken is the French
> Instromania website which have a search feature where you can
just
> type in the title you want to check:
>
>
>
> Klas / The Surfites
>
>
>
>
>
> .
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Man, how many songs are entitled "Heartbreaker"? Led Zep, Grand
Funk, Heart, Bee Gees, Pat Benetar...no two are the same tune.
>
They all are pretty crappy tho! Sounds like the record collection
of one of my ex-hippy girlfriends!
Blasphemy!! Led Zep and Grand Funk Heartbreaker's rawk!!
Does anyone know what guitar Mark Farner was playing on the early Grand Funk
records? It's a weird hollow body. I bet it would be a great surf guitar though
ya'd have to slap a Bigsby on it.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: supertwangreverb
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
>
> Man, how many songs are entitled "Heartbreaker"? Led Zep, Grand
Funk, Heart, Bee Gees, Pat Benetar...no two are the same tune.
>
They all are pretty crappy tho! Sounds like the record collection
of one of my ex-hippy girlfriends!
.
Visit for archived messages,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Then there is 5:15. That title is used by The Who, Mark Knopfler, and
Chris Isaak. All versions are excellent and not one is the same song.
--- In , "Marty Tippens" <mctippens@e...>
wrote:
> True.
>
> Man, how many songs are entitled "Heartbreaker"? Led Zep, Grand
Funk, Heart, Bee Gees, Pat Benetar...no two are the same tune.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Klas Fjellgren
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:55 AM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
>
>
>
> Also, you wouldn't want people to think it's a cover when it's
> actually an original.
>
> --- In , "Marty Tippens"
> <mctippens@e...> wrote:
> > Yeah, a good title can inspire a good tune. It's legal for songs to
> have the same title but I know what you mean, Klas, if your lookin
> for a cool title, you want it to be original.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Klas Fjellgren
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:07 AM
> > Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: Writing songs, the approach...
> >
> >
> >
> > Another part of the song writing process that I find important is
> to
> > give the song a cool and suitable title which isn't always that
> easy.
> > There are quite a few occasions over the years when I have come
> up
> > with a fitting title, just to find out it has already been taken
> by
> > another band.
> >
> > A good place to check if a title is already taken is the French
> > Instromania website which have a search feature where you can
> just
> > type in the title you want to check:
> >
> >
> >
> > Klas / The Surfites
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> > Visit for archived
> messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
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> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit for archived
messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
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