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So I'm screwing around trying to record some guitar parts with my
digital 8 track recorder. I'm a total novice with this stuff. I got a
microphone with the recorder as part of a package, so I am sure it's
just an el-cheapo. I am finding it very difficult to get my levels to
sound right. I've been experimenting with mic placement, volumes, and
the trim control. Here is what I am finding:
It's very easy to overload the digital recorder and cause it to clip.
It is very hard to get the guitar to sound "loud" on the recording.
I've got the showman just edged up to 4, just to where it's starting
to get slightly painful directly in front of the amp. I have to pull
the mic away from the speakers a bit and just turn down the trim a
hair so it won't clip. Even so, on playback, it has lost a lot of the
immediacy and the "in your face" edge as the sound coming out of the amp.
Any suggestions? Get a better mic? Recommendations? Do I really have
to crank the amp to get a good recording? If so, I'll have to wait
until the family leaves the house, I'm already pushing things as it
is... :)
Thanks for any advice.
BN
Brian:
Here's some advice from an old analog tape guy who made the
switch to digital recording.
1. A decent mike would probably help things. Something
like a the good old standbys: Shure SM 57 or Shure SM 58.
Even Realistic (RadioShack) makes some decent SM 57 and SM
58 clones that are easy on the wallet and probably work
better than what you have right now.
2. your Showman shouldn't be too loud: maybe 3 or so.
Also, you might consider recording two tracks of guitar
(through two seperate microphones) for better sound. Place
one mic fairly close in to the speakers, and place the
other much farther away for some cool ambient reverb and
treble shimmer.
3. Wearing headphones? Ears work better than eyes when
recording. (and judging levels)
4. Lower your microphone input gain. Make sure you leave
plenty of "headroom" on your live recording channel to
accomodate "transient volume spikes"...in other words,
leave room before clipping for variations in your volume
due to playing technique and note (low E vs. hi E for
example) variations. Digital recorders are not forgiving
when your input level hits the clip ceiling. It's awful
sounding. On tape, "hot" input levels would "mush out" and
produce pleasing distortion. On digital its just harsh pop
and crackle.
5. Got a pre-amp on that mic? Maybe try a nice cheapo
pre-amp (one of those 12AX7 Blue tube pre-amp pedals work
well for me) ands a nice amount of tube-gain, and warms up
the sound immensely. Can add some noise though, so use
sparingly. If you have a PA or a mixer with phantom power,
you might try that as your mic pre-amp.
6. Turn up your guitar track volume DURING MIXDOWN. Even a
weak-ish recorded guitar track can be tweaked during
mixdown so that the volume level rides nice and high in the
mix. Get the best you can while capturing, and then tweak
it later on when you do your final mix. You can also tweak
the effects (like adding even more reverb)during mixdown,
if you desire.
good luck
a fellow home-recordist
dp
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
>
>
> So I'm screwing around trying to record some guitar parts
> with my
> digital 8 track recorder. I'm a total novice with this
> stuff. I got a
> microphone with the recorder as part of a package, so I
> am sure it's
> just an el-cheapo. I am finding it very difficult to get
> my levels to
> sound right. I've been experimenting with mic placement,
> volumes, and
> the trim control. Here is what I am finding:
>
> It's very easy to overload the digital recorder and cause
> it to clip.
>
> It is very hard to get the guitar to sound "loud" on the
> recording.
> I've got the showman just edged up to 4, just to where
> it's starting
> to get slightly painful directly in front of the amp. I
> have to pull
> the mic away from the speakers a bit and just turn down
> the trim a
> hair so it won't clip. Even so, on playback, it has lost
> a lot of the
> immediacy and the "in your face" edge as the sound coming
> out of the amp.
>
> Any suggestions? Get a better mic? Recommendations? Do I
> really have
> to crank the amp to get a good recording? If so, I'll
> have to wait
> until the family leaves the house, I'm already pushing
> things as it
> is... :)
>
> Thanks for any advice.
> BN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Ya know what someone should invent?...a fully enclosed speaker with built-in
microphone. That way those of us who live in condos and apartments could record
our amps at a decent volume without disturbing the neighbors. I'm thinking a
design along the lines of the talk-box effect that Joe Walsh and Peter
Framp-tone used in the '70's. If yer not familiar, their talk-box had a
completely enclosed speaker (in a box) with a surgical tube coming out etc...We
don't need the surgical tube part, but we do need the fully enclosed speaker and
a mic enclosed with in the same box to record the speaker. That way the speaker
isn't blasting so loud and free throughout the house, condo, or apt.
I'm gonna have to put that idea down with my other greatest idea, hot-dogs made
flat so you can put 'em in hamburger buns.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Neal
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Recording Question: Microphones, Levels, etc
So I'm screwing around trying to record some guitar parts with my
digital 8 track recorder. I'm a total novice with this stuff. I got a
microphone with the recorder as part of a package, so I am sure it's
just an el-cheapo. I am finding it very difficult to get my levels to
sound right. I've been experimenting with mic placement, volumes, and
the trim control. Here is what I am finding:
It's very easy to overload the digital recorder and cause it to clip.
It is very hard to get the guitar to sound "loud" on the recording.
I've got the showman just edged up to 4, just to where it's starting
to get slightly painful directly in front of the amp. I have to pull
the mic away from the speakers a bit and just turn down the trim a
hair so it won't clip. Even so, on playback, it has lost a lot of the
immediacy and the "in your face" edge as the sound coming out of the amp.
Any suggestions? Get a better mic? Recommendations? Do I really have
to crank the amp to get a good recording? If so, I'll have to wait
until the family leaves the house, I'm already pushing things as it
is... :)
Thanks for any advice.
BN
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DP wrote:
>Brian:
>
>Here's some advice from an old analog tape guy who made the
>switch to digital recording.
>
>
[...]
>1. A decent mike would probably help things. Something
>like a the good old standbys: Shure SM 57 or Shure SM 58.
>Even Realistic (RadioShack) makes some decent SM 57 and SM
>58 clones that are easy on the wallet and probably work
>better than what you have right now.
>
>
Yeah I'm looking into a SM57. I'm hoping that helps out. Those things
aren't cheap, but then again, I see many other mics that are more expensive!
>Digital recorders are not forgiving
>when your input level hits the clip ceiling. It's awful
>sounding. On tape, "hot" input levels would "mush out" and
>produce pleasing distortion. On digital its just harsh pop
>and crackle.
>
>
I'm very familiar with this crackle!!
I'm just not getting enough "oomph" from the mic I think. I have to turn
the gain down a bit to avoid the clipping, but turning down the smallest
amount makes the guitar sound like it was recorded a block away.
Thanks DP, this is the best advice I've gotten on the subject.
BN
these may be dumb questions,but here goes anyway:
Does your mic take batteries? Are they fresh? Is your mic
"hi-z" (high impedence)? If so, it will require phantom
power for best results.
Does your mic input cord have a 1/4 inch jack or a
three-prong XLR jack? The 1/4 inch should be a "lo-z" mic
and should be run on the "line/instrument/guitar" setting
of your recorder. If it is an XLR type jack, then it the
mic should be run on the "microphone" setting (the setting
that provides the extra power hi-z requires.)
Usually, near the inputs on your recorder/mixer there is a
selector switch to choose between hi-z and lo-z (line/mic
level)...do you have one of these switches on your
recorder? Have you tried the different settings?
best wishes,
DP
--- Brian Neal <> wrote:
>
> DP wrote:
>
> >Brian:
> >
> >Here's some advice from an old analog tape guy who made
> the
> >switch to digital recording.
> >
> >
> [...]
>
> >1. A decent mike would probably help things. Something
> >like a the good old standbys: Shure SM 57 or Shure SM
> 58.
> >Even Realistic (RadioShack) makes some decent SM 57 and
> SM
> >58 clones that are easy on the wallet and probably work
> >better than what you have right now.
> >
> >
> Yeah I'm looking into a SM57. I'm hoping that helps out.
> Those things
> aren't cheap, but then again, I see many other mics that
> are more expensive!
>
> >Digital recorders are not forgiving
> >when your input level hits the clip ceiling. It's awful
> >sounding. On tape, "hot" input levels would "mush out"
> and
> >produce pleasing distortion. On digital its just harsh
> pop
> >and crackle.
> >
> >
> I'm very familiar with this crackle!!
>
> I'm just not getting enough "oomph" from the mic I think.
> I have to turn
> the gain down a bit to avoid the clipping, but turning
> down the smallest
> amount makes the guitar sound like it was recorded a
> block away.
>
> Thanks DP, this is the best advice I've gotten on the
> subject.
>
> BN
>
>
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> archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
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>
>
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DP wrote:
>Usually, near the inputs on your recorder/mixer there is a
>selector switch to choose between hi-z and lo-z (line/mic
>level)...do you have one of these switches on your
>recorder? Have you tried the different settings?
>
>
The mic has the XLR style connectors, and I've got the switch set on
ext. mic (the other choices are line/guitar and int. mic).
So thanks for asking but I think I have those bases covered.
BN
flat hot dogs..genuis !
though people have been building isolation chambers
for thier amps for a long time like you described.
living in NYC a few years ago i was very close to
doing this mysielf, and retrofitting in the top of my
closet. Then i said F - it, and went DI with my POD. I
went to the guitar store the other day though and saw
the VOX tonelab, which im interested in hearing.
So Brian ever consider DI ?
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
> Ya know what someone should invent?...a fully
> enclosed speaker with built-in microphone. That way
> those of us who live in condos and apartments could
> record our amps at a decent volume without
> disturbing the neighbors. I'm thinking a design
> along the lines of the talk-box effect that Joe
> Walsh and Peter Framp-tone used in the '70's. If yer
> not familiar, their talk-box had a completely
> enclosed speaker (in a box) with a surgical tube
> coming out etc...We don't need the surgical tube
> part, but we do need the fully enclosed speaker and
> a mic enclosed with in the same box to record the
> speaker. That way the speaker isn't blasting so loud
> and free throughout the house, condo, or apt.
>
> I'm gonna have to put that idea down with my other
> greatest idea, hot-dogs made flat so you can put 'em
> in hamburger buns.
>
> -Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Neal
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:23 PM
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Recording Question:
> Microphones, Levels, etc
>
>
>
> So I'm screwing around trying to record some
> guitar parts with my
> digital 8 track recorder. I'm a total novice with
> this stuff. I got a
> microphone with the recorder as part of a package,
> so I am sure it's
> just an el-cheapo. I am finding it very difficult
> to get my levels to
> sound right. I've been experimenting with mic
> placement, volumes, and
> the trim control. Here is what I am finding:
>
> It's very easy to overload the digital recorder
> and cause it to clip.
>
> It is very hard to get the guitar to sound "loud"
> on the recording.
> I've got the showman just edged up to 4, just to
> where it's starting
> to get slightly painful directly in front of the
> amp. I have to pull
> the mic away from the speakers a bit and just turn
> down the trim a
> hair so it won't clip. Even so, on playback, it
> has lost a lot of the
> immediacy and the "in your face" edge as the sound
> coming out of the amp.
>
> Any suggestions? Get a better mic?
> Recommendations? Do I really have
> to crank the amp to get a good recording? If so,
> I'll have to wait
> until the family leaves the house, I'm already
> pushing things as it
> is... :)
>
> Thanks for any advice.
> BN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Visit
> for archived messages, bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Get unlimited calls to
>
> U.S./Canada
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Neal S. wrote:
>So Brian ever consider DI ?
>
>
A few years before the POD craze took off, my brother gave me one of
those digital effects units. It was neat to play around with, especially
if you wanted to sound like Cannibal Corpse or something like that. But
in general the tones were very artificial and sterile sounding. Maybe
these things have gotten better with the advent of the POD, etc. I may
look into it again, but I don't need to buy any new gadgets right now
(but I also don't need to buy a microphone either...!).
I would agree that it is probably much easier to make demos with DI than
by micing an amp.
Anyone else use DI?
BN
I have a Behringer V-amp 2 and I must say I was very impressed by its
Marshall imitation. But we do not use Marshall's here, do we?The clean amp
imitations are... well not really how I would like to hear it. Nothing can
beat a real amp.
For recording a real amp I use a F.A.N.T.A. and a mic. The FANTA (
php?cPath=41&products_id=666 ) is a DI box you put between the amp and the
speaker. It has a lot of body but lacks the "sparkle". So I use the Fanta
for the body and put a mic in front of the speaker to add the "sparkle". For
amp I use a low wattage tube amp, Champ style but with a 12" speaker.
Roland Bettenville
-------Oorspronkelijk bericht-------
Van:
Datum: 02/20/05 03:04:07
Aan:
Onderwerp: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Recording Question: Microphones, Levels, etc
Neal S. wrote:
>So Brian ever consider DI ?
>
>
A few years before the POD craze took off, my brother gave me one of
those digital effects units. It was neat to play around with, especially
if you wanted to sound like Cannibal Corpse or something like that. But
in general the tones were very artificial and sterile sounding. Maybe
these things have gotten better with the advent of the POD, etc. I may
look into it again, but I don't need to buy any new gadgets right now
(but I also don't need to buy a microphone either...!).
I would agree that it is probably much easier to make demos with DI than
by micing an amp.
Anyone else use DI?
BN
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In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers.
At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
..
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A while back I posted that I was having problems recording when micing
my amp.
I just noticed tonight that the speaker I had the mic pointed at in the
Dual Showman cabinet was dead. Duh....maybe that was it? It turned out
that one of the wires going to one of the leads had popped out. Of
course I had to remove all 4,096 screws from the back panel to find this
out.
The amp sounds much better now. Funny how I didn't even notice that. Did
I risk anything by running the amp on only 1 speaker?
Thanks,
BN
I think you mis-counted screws, Brian. Dual Showmans have 4098
screws. you might have dropped one. ( can you imagine removing all
those screws circa 1963 with only a screwdriver - UGH!) Also, I
hear Fender amps are usually okay with Ohm mismatches such as your
situation.
Chris
--- In , Brian Neal <brian@s...> wrote:
> A while back I posted that I was having problems recording when
micing
> my amp.
>
> I just noticed tonight that the speaker I had the mic pointed at
in the
> Dual Showman cabinet was dead. Duh....maybe that was it? It turned
out
> that one of the wires going to one of the leads had popped out. Of
> course I had to remove all 4,096 screws from the back panel to
find this
> out.
>
> The amp sounds much better now. Funny how I didn't even notice
that. Did
> I risk anything by running the amp on only 1 speaker?
>
> Thanks,
> BN
