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I don't do tabs anymore nearly as much as I used to
because in all my playing I've developed something of
an ear...I'm still not really any good at figuring
things out by any stretch, but most simple things I
can nail down. At the outset, however, it was
IMPOSSIBLE..I reiterate...IMPOSSIBLE for me to figure
tunes out. I had zero musical background, nobody
onhand to teach me anything and no idea what I was
doing. I picked up the guitar when I was 21 years
old. I'm 25 now and I still suck. I totally
understand where you guys are coming from about
avoiding tabs, but for me it really wasn't an option.
My playing level is beyond my ear as a result of tabs,
but I also feel that without them I never would've
gotten started.
Richard
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Marty and all,
I don't want to belabor this point, it has been talked
about (to death? I hope) here on SG101. Fundamentally
we agree, ear training is the most important way to
learn and surf music is an easy form of music to start
with. But I will not agree with you that Tabs are not
useful. First, when I started playing 25 years ago, I
used tabs to learn AC/DC songs. Two years ago when the
Aqua Velvets asked me to learn 3 sets of music in 2
weeks, I tabbed out 45 songs- see, I used my ear to
write out the tabs. Also a few years ago, I tabbed out
Dave's solo in "Bells of St. Kahuna" which took me
weeks to learn, and then I sent it to him, and he had
a good laugh I'm sure, then corrected my fingerings.
Now my kids are learning to read music for the piano,
and I can't help them because I am illiterate when it
comes to notation. I wish I had learned to read music.
Ear training, Tabs and Notation are just another way
to pass along the tradition of music.
ferenc
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Thanks, I'm sorry for the redundancy. I'm sure you've all discussed this
quite thoroughly (and I've seen it come up before), but I'm somewhat new
to this group, so thanks for the reply.
-Kristena
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:59:07 -0800 (PST) Ferenc Dobronyi
<> writes:
>
> Marty and all,
> I don't want to belabor this point, it has been talked
> about (to death? I hope) here on SG101.
Hey Ferenc,
Ok, but you have your agreement and disagreement backwards. I am of the
following opinions:
1. Ear training is not the most important way to learn surf music
2. Tabs can be usefull for more difficult forms of music and making tabs ain't a
bad practice. I keep several on the computer as well and I have published a few
on my www.planktone.com website.
Ear training is the better way over tab to learn surf music but it is more
important to hook up with another guitar player and interact when learning surf
or any other form of music.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Ferenc Dobronyi
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] tabs
Marty and all,
I don't want to belabor this point, it has been talked
about (to death? I hope) here on SG101. Fundamentally
we agree, ear training is the most important way to
learn and surf music is an easy form of music to start
with. But I will not agree with you that Tabs are not
useful. First, when I started playing 25 years ago, I
used tabs to learn AC/DC songs. Two years ago when the
Aqua Velvets asked me to learn 3 sets of music in 2
weeks, I tabbed out 45 songs- see, I used my ear to
write out the tabs. Also a few years ago, I tabbed out
Dave's solo in "Bells of St. Kahuna" which took me
weeks to learn, and then I sent it to him, and he had
a good laugh I'm sure, then corrected my fingerings.
Now my kids are learning to read music for the piano,
and I can't help them because I am illiterate when it
comes to notation. I wish I had learned to read music.
Ear training, Tabs and Notation are just another way
to pass along the tradition of music.
ferenc
__________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hey Richard,
I believe you when you say it was impossible to figure out tunes on your own. I
have a friend that I get together with who is the same way. I also think it's
great that your desire to learn was strong enough such that you went for tabs.
If you're somewhat unimpressed with your current ability, that may say something
about learning by tab. I recommend that you try again to find guitarists to hang
with or even a recommended teacher.
I could feel lucky that I had a friend that helped me out with the guitar at a
young age. But we make our own luck. What that means in my case is that I was
very into music, and very not into sports. So I hung out with people of the same
ilk. It was natural that many guitar players were around for me to pick their
brains.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] tabs
I don't do tabs anymore nearly as much as I used to
because in all my playing I've developed something of
an ear...I'm still not really any good at figuring
things out by any stretch, but most simple things I
can nail down. At the outset, however, it was
IMPOSSIBLE..I reiterate...IMPOSSIBLE for me to figure
tunes out. I had zero musical background, nobody
onhand to teach me anything and no idea what I was
doing. I picked up the guitar when I was 21 years
old. I'm 25 now and I still suck. I totally
understand where you guys are coming from about
avoiding tabs, but for me it really wasn't an option.
My playing level is beyond my ear as a result of tabs,
but I also feel that without them I never would've
gotten started.
Richard
__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ferenc is right we have beat this to death before, one more time won't hurt.
In my case, I felt like Richard, like I was getting nowhere. And that
was when I was relying on tabs exclusively. I didn't start getting
better until I stopped reading other peoples tabs and started creating
my own. I didn't have anyone else to play with, so I sat down with my
guitar and a pen, and slowed songs down on the computer. I wrote out all
those Man or Astro-Man? tabs that way. Forcing myself to repeatedly go
over those parts and then writing it down on paper forged some neural
pathways in my brain, I am sure of it. Now I rarely resort to the
computer and can pick a lot of stuff out by ear just by going over it .
And you guys are right, there is a tremendous rush when you figure
something out on your own. So again, my position is that tab should be a
very brief "training wheels period". Get off of them as soon as you can.
If you are lucky like Marty you can play with other people. If not, try
creating your own tabs for a while. If that isn't your style just dive
in with your ear and try to pick licks out yourself.
Tonight I just figured out a bizarre chord that the Treble Spankers were
using all on my own. I never would have been able to do that a year or
two ago. There is something spiritual about "you versus your guitar",
trying to improve yourself constantly. It's a battle but it is very
rewarding. Of course it can be frustrating too. Now if I can only get my
fingers to do what my ears want them too...! That's another subject
entirely.
BN
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
> Ok, but you have your agreement and disagreement
> backwards. I am of the following opinions:
>
> 1. Ear training is not the most important way to
> learn surf music
Oh, I thought you were saying that it is... well, what
do you think is the most important way to learn surf
music, if not by ear?
> 2. Tabs can be usefull for more difficult forms of
> music and making tabs ain't a bad practice. I keep
> several on the computer as well and I have published
> a few on my www.planktone.com website.
AHA! I knew you had skeletons in closet.
> Ear training is the better way over tab to learn
> surf music but it is more important to hook up with
> another guitar player and interact when learning
> surf or any other form of music.
Agreed, but let me just say <for arguments sake :), >
what is the difference between having somebody show
you a lick or learning it from a tab? either way it is
an exchange of information.
And P.S. to everybody, just so there is no
misunderstanding, I think Marty is a great guy, an
extremely talented multi-instrumentalist, and you
should seek out The Planktones "Makin the Scene" is
one of my favorite CDs from the last few years!
fd
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Hi Ferenc,
This is good discourse, you're making me think through my opinions.
Collaborating with a guitar playing friend is what I meant as better than
learning by ear. The difference between someone showing you how to play and tab
is in the interaction. Of course this interaction will be better with some
collaborators than with others, but I think a guitarist friend is most often
better than a sheet of instructions. We pick up so much, especially in the
beginning, by watching how it's done. And then playing off of each other, taking
the melody while the other takes the rhythm and learning how to play rhythm
altogether. And it's the first step towards playing in a group. With a
collaborator, the beginner gets a clear differentiation between what the lead
guitar is doing and what the rhythm is doing and getting the first step towards
identifying the notes on a record. Hopefully, after a while, the beginner gets
good enough to compete with the friend and that encourages building of skills.
I'm beginning to blab so I'll stop there.
Thanks for the nice words! Not to play "I'm ok, you're ok" but I still say your
"Golden State" CD is a surf music work of art (inside and out).
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Ferenc Dobronyi
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] tabs
--- Marty Tippens <> wrote:
> Ok, but you have your agreement and disagreement
> backwards. I am of the following opinions:
>
> 1. Ear training is not the most important way to
> learn surf music
Oh, I thought you were saying that it is... well, what
do you think is the most important way to learn surf
music, if not by ear?
> 2. Tabs can be usefull for more difficult forms of
> music and making tabs ain't a bad practice. I keep
> several on the computer as well and I have published
> a few on my www.planktone.com website.
AHA! I knew you had skeletons in closet.
> Ear training is the better way over tab to learn
> surf music but it is more important to hook up with
> another guitar player and interact when learning
> surf or any other form of music.
Agreed, but let me just say <for arguments sake :), >
what is the difference between having somebody show
you a lick or learning it from a tab? either way it is
an exchange of information.
And P.S. to everybody, just so there is no
misunderstanding, I think Marty is a great guy, an
extremely talented multi-instrumentalist, and you
should seek out The Planktones "Makin the Scene" is
one of my favorite CDs from the last few years!
fd
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
.
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bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh yeah, Brian, I'm also with you and Ferenc on the idea of tab'ing out what ya
learned off the record so you don't have to re-invent the wheel two years later
when the song comes up again.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Neal
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] tabs
Ferenc is right we have beat this to death before, one more time won't hurt.
In my case, I felt like Richard, like I was getting nowhere. And that
was when I was relying on tabs exclusively. I didn't start getting
better until I stopped reading other peoples tabs and started creating
my own. I didn't have anyone else to play with, so I sat down with my
guitar and a pen, and slowed songs down on the computer. I wrote out all
those Man or Astro-Man? tabs that way. Forcing myself to repeatedly go
over those parts and then writing it down on paper forged some neural
pathways in my brain, I am sure of it. Now I rarely resort to the
computer and can pick a lot of stuff out by ear just by going over it .
And you guys are right, there is a tremendous rush when you figure
something out on your own. So again, my position is that tab should be a
very brief "training wheels period". Get off of them as soon as you can.
If you are lucky like Marty you can play with other people. If not, try
creating your own tabs for a while. If that isn't your style just dive
in with your ear and try to pick licks out yourself.
Tonight I just figured out a bizarre chord that the Treble Spankers were
using all on my own. I never would have been able to do that a year or
two ago. There is something spiritual about "you versus your guitar",
trying to improve yourself constantly. It's a battle but it is very
rewarding. Of course it can be frustrating too. Now if I can only get my
fingers to do what my ears want them too...! That's another subject
entirely.
BN
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
