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Dive bombs Ivan. I don't recall you being out of tune when I saw
you play, and yeah you've made some great music with those "vintage
trems." I wonder what "F.B.I" would sounded like with a few dive
bombs thrown in :)
Bill
--- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
wrote:
>
> I've got three Strats with vintage trems, and they all work
equally
> well, without special strings and special setups, and certainly
with
> no "nursemaiding" (I rarely give it a second's thought). And I
> believe I've made some good music with the use of
this "cantankerous
> hunks of junk". Just what the hell do you do with your
tremolos??
>
>
> --- In , "red_thundr"
<red_thundr@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > We can simply agree to disagree.
> >
> > Hendrix was notorious for being out of tune (I can hardly
stomach
> his
> > live performances merely on that fact.) Jeff Beck and others
need
> > massive adjustments and tweeks to make their stock Fender units
> > livable. Van Halen simply gave up on the stock Fender unit and
> found
> > something better, and in doing so rewrote the book on what you
could
> > do with a tremolo.
> >
> > My Stratocaster is not a one-trick-pony, and I demand that it
have
> > flexibility, versatility, and reliability. The Wilkinson tremolo
> > plays a big part in that equation, and if I can spread the good
word
> > on something I found, I'm gonna do it. You won't be able to
> convince
> > me that the stock Fender tremolos are anything more than
> cantankerous
> > hunks of junk that are better left unused. My time is better
spent
> > making good music than nursemaiding a device that has been vastly
> > surpassed by far more elegant and usable solutions.
> >
> > Consider yourself extremely fortunate to have a workable stock
> Fender
> > trem; for it's only due to luck and not by design. My case is
the
> > opposite: I have a great trem that's usable by design, not by
luck.
> > The stock Fender trem will never shed its quirky reputation for
> > needing special setups, special strings, and a wing and a prayer
> when
> > you really need to count on it.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "ipongrac" <ipongrac@g...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In , "red_thundr"
> > <red_thundr@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd only have to add that you need to try a Wilkinson
first.
> > >
> > > I will, if I get a chance.
> > >
> > > > The
> > > > general consensus is that the "vintage" Strat trem needs
special
> > > > supporting setup mods and inordinate care applied in order
for
> it
> > to
> > > > be somewhat stable and usable; it doesn't just "work" out of
> the
> > > box.
> > > > Tuning problems are a well-documented and universally
accepted
> > > > idiosyncrasy of the stock Fender unit. All that friction on
> the 6
> > > > pivot screws doesn't bode well for tuning stability, and the
> > > > side-to-side shifting of the spring-loaded saddles doesn't
give
> > the
> > > > strings a consistent zero return point.
> > >
> > > Cause people use thin strings and don't set it up right. Oh,
and
> > > they dive-bomb with it and pretend they're EVH or Brad Gillis,
> > which
> > > is not what it was designed to do. Again, I said that it works
> > really
> > > well for SURF MUSIC, meaning adding true vibrato, whether
gentle
> or
> > > heavy-handed, rather than making airplane and Ferrari noises
> with.
> > > Incidentally, Hendrix, Van Halen, and Jeff Beck did much if
not
> all
> > > of their whammy abuse on vintage style units... I even read
an
> > > interview with EVH where he said he prefers the tone of the
> vintage
> > > Strat unit, but obviously a Floyd Rose stays in tune better for
> > what
> > > he does.
> > >
> > > > If the vintage Fender trem was half as good as you say,
> > >
> > > I'm telling you what my experience with it is - why would I
> > > exaggerate?
> > >
> > > > Floyd Rose would have been out of business > 25 years ago.
> > >
> > > Well, Kahler is. And how many new guitars do you see with real
> > Floyd
> > > Rose units? Maybe Jackson and ESP, but not many more. I don't
> > think
> > > that Fender has one standard model with a real Floyd Rose on
it
> > > anymore (they have a Mexican or Korean model with a Floyd Rose
> > copy),
> > > while the vintage unit is still found on the great majority of
> > their
> > > (and many other manufacturers') guitars. Floyd Rose trems are
a
> > pain
> > > in the ass. They're hard to adjust for intonation, changing
> > strings
> > > is a pain in the ass, and locking and unlocking the nut and
> having
> > > the right wrench is just really inconvenient.
> > >
> > > > Most elements of the original Strat design are timeless;
> > > > unfortunately, the trem isn't one of them.
> > >
> > > I couldn't disagree more. I believe it's one of Leo Fender's
> major
> > > claims to fame.
> > >
> > > > I've played a gazillion Strats, from Mexis all the way to
> Custom
> > > Shop
> > > > beauties, and 95% of them with the stock trem have gone out
of
> > tune
> > > > with mild use. And frankly, I've yet to pick up a Strat
right
> > off
> > > the
> > > > dealer's wall that didn't have a major problem with the
tuning
> > after
> > > > testing the trem.
> > >
> > > Cause most of them leave the factory with 9-gauge strings and
> poor
> > > setups.
> > >
> > > > Bang for the buck, I believe the Wilkinson upgrade mod wins
> hands
> > > > down. It's an inexpensive drop-in mod that a competent
luthier
> > can
> > > > setup with ease. It's not finicky, it's rugged, nice-
looking,
> and
> > > > actually benefits the sustain. My recommendation is for
people
> to
> > > > simply try it.
> > >
> > > No problem. All Strat players should go ahead and try it. If
I
> > > lived close any kind of a guitar store (the nearest - crappy -
one
> > is
> > > 45 miles away, a good one is some 70 miles away, and I rarely
get
> > to
> > > go there), I would. But my opinion is that the vintage Strat
> > tremolo
> > > rules.
> > >
> > > Ivan
