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While I have attempted some mathematics on this list in the past, when it comes
to what sounds better, I rely only on the acid test of blindfold A/B comparison.
Comparing equipment side by side is not a reliable indicator of which unit
sounds best IF one is aware of the particular unit that is producing the sound.
If one truely wants to know which unit has the prefered sound, the emotions of
what we expect or want to have better sound has to be taken out of the equation.
I haven't done the comparison that Ran has done with new and old Twin Reverbs. I
do have one of the new '65 reissues and haven't had reliability problems BUT I
have to admit, I haven't played it out but a handful of times. I do like the
sound.
Recently a guitar player in my band purchased on Ebay a reissue Fender reverb
tank that was delivered with two sets of tubes. Neither were the original tubes,
both sets were supposed improvements. I know that one set was NOS 6K6 and I'll
have to ask him what the other was. In our test, neither of us could hear a hair
of difference between my unaltered Fender RI tank and the Ebay purchase fitted
with upgrade tubes.
The test was done with a Morely A/B box switching the output of a Fender
Jazzmaster to both tanks. The tanks were patched to the balanced inputs of the
second channel of a vintage blond Bandmaster amp. The guitar player was not
allowed to see what unit was in play at any time. He did a series of tests
playing the same chord, single note, with the same attack, while I switched
between tanks. The guitar player is a vintage nut and is often inclined to make
boasts about equipment from "the good ol' days", but in this test he could hear
no difference at all, nor could I when we switched roles.
Now, changing the tone cap is a different thing. I have A/B'd my RI tank to two
original tanks. The only significant difference I heard was that the RI's tone
knob could produce a wider range in tone. It could bring the treble up higher.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Ran Mosessco
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Point to Point?
As others mentioned, in theory, there shouldn't be a difference.
However, in real life, most modern PCB amps use the cheapest single sided
PCB, with the cheapest components, and all kind of stupid "design" ideas
like mounting tube sockets to the cheap thin PCB, which results in cracking.
They also have very cheap transformers which alos contributes to the bad
tone.
So the practical end result is that the PTP amps sound better and are more
reliable (of course old amps need servicing before they're 100% trouble
free). There are some very good PCB amps, but I think most of them are of
the British school of sound, so they don't suit the Surf guitarist.
I have 2 real life examples - one supporting my claim, and one not.
You don't have to read them to if you just wish to discuss the theoretic
difference, give out all kinds of formulas, calculate electron flow, measure
resistance in pcb tracks Vs. plastic insulated stranded wire Vs. solid core
cloth insulated wire, sit in your study hall, in a distinguished house robe,
smoke a pipe, and lecture in a British accent, etc. ; )
1. Fender Twin Reverb reissue Vs. Old Fender Twin Reverb:
Play them side by side (I have done that several times, including
eliminating the speakers/cabinet out of the comparison), and you'll notice
the difference. Witnessed horrible realiablilty problems with the Reissue
TRs (the record label we were signed to had a couple, and they had many many
problems. So much so that the Fender dealer replaced one, and the
replacement amp still wasn't reliable.)
2. Fender Reverb Unit reissue Vs. New PTP kits:
I have a PCB unit that I outfitted with NOS tubes and had the tone cap
changed. In comparison to and STB electronics kit, my unit sounded much
better. For the guy who replaced me in the band, I made up a list of the
best components to use for a "kit" including NOS tubes, as I thought it
would certainly blow away my reissue. It didn't. It sounded good, but not
anything that would really make me change out the PCB in my reissue as I
planned to do. Maybe that specific PTP unit will sound better in time, as
the components age.
Notice that you have to try to compare apples to apples, which means trying
to eliminate the differenece in components age, speakers, cabinets, tubes,
bias settings, etc. Almost impossible to practically do.
Ran
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ric Flinn" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] Point to Point?
>
> Yep, I don't think there's any technical reasons a PCB
> couldn't be made to sound just like a PTP amp.
.
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