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Marty Tippens (mctippens) - 24 Nov 2004 21:11:39: I think on surfgutiar101 techno-nerdiness is ok, Gavin, in moderation anyway. On
Cowabunga we'd be banned! The cone displacement was brought up in my earlier
post as the reason for the darker sound of the 15" even though the surface area
is less than the 4x10 config. I'm guessing the long throw of a 15" has an
easier time producing the longer wave forms.
Dave gets a great sound out of his rig. I haven't seen him play through 15's.
Rob Woolsey also gets an excellent tone through a 4x10 Super Amp.
I agree that these amps are not producing exactly the Dick Dale sound.
-Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: Gavin Ehringer
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: [SurfGuitar101] Re: 15" Speakers versus 12" versus 10" - some
thoughts...
--- In , mctippens@e... wrote:
> That's good analysis, Gavin.
Thanks, Marty. Not to be a techo-nerd, but besides the surface area to be
considered,
you've also got the issue of cone movement, i.e. the distance it moves while
displacing the
air. This would vary according to the voice coil, etc.
My real point, however, is simply that a big, clean 15" (ala the Showman or
the Twin
Reverb Custom 15) has a distinctive, thick bass response that was common to
Dick Dale's
sound and still is worthy of consideration. When you start introducing
distortion, however,
many would agree with Dave Wronski, that the smaller speakers give a more
pleasing
overall tone.
To each his own, it's all about tone.
Gavin
> -Marty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gavin Ehringer <gavinehringer@e...>
> Sent: Nov 24, 2004 9:41 AM
> To:
> Subject: [SurfGuitar101] 15" Speakers versus 12" versus 10" - some
thoughts...
>
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> 
> In an earlier post (below), Dave Wronski points out that four 10" speakers
push more air
 
> than a Showman with a single 15". If I understood him right, this is
correct, but not by
the 
> factors he noted - if you consider the area dimensions of the two speakers,
it's actually
 
> 314 sq. inches for each 10" and 706 sq. inches for the 15". So, four 10"
speakers push
 
> 1,256 sq. inches versus 706 sq. inches for the 15". However, if you are
talking about
2 15" 
> speakers (Dual Showman cab), it's a whopping 1,412 sq. inches! 
> 
> Furthermore, these are the flat dimensions of a circle - you actually need
to calculate
 
> these as conical area, which would be much greater (for that, however, you
need the
actual 
> depth of the cones as well). Given the great depth of the 15" cones, you
could fairly say
 
> that you move much, much more air with the two 15"s. 
> 
> Dale is correct about "sonic boom." Bigger speakers, having greater mass,
have a much
 
> lower resonant frequency. That's what gives them their characteristic
"bottom." 
> 
> Here's something Mike Soldano had to say about 15" speakers, and why they
are not
 
> popular in many of today's guitar amps" 
> 
> "Twelve inch speakers seem to adapt more readily to this wider range of
tones than the
 
> fifteen inchers do. From my experience, the 15" speaker gets a bit "flubby"
and
undefined 
> when subjected to heavily overdriven tones. Another thing to consider is the
availability
of 
> these speakers. While there are hundreds of models of 12" speakers
specifically
designed 
> for guitarists to choose from, there are very few choices in the 15" size.
And bass
speakers 
> really don't cut it. In fact, I've never heard a better 15" guitar speaker
than that JBL that
 
> came in the Vibrasonic." 
> 
> "Anyway, I have to agree with you, the Fender Vibrasonic Reverb was a pretty
cool amp.
 
> And yes, it was basically a Twin equipped with a JBL D-130-F 15" speaker.
That amp
was 
> so perfectly suited for surf guitar it's scary. It was, in my opinion, one
of the better amps
 
> Fender ever built. I think if they brought it back as a reissue, they could
probably sell a
few 
> of them." (BTW, Fender did reissue the Vibrasonic reverb as the "'65 Twin
Reverb Reissue
 
> Custom 15," which is the amp I am presently using). 
> 
> That said, four 10's was the original "Bassman" sound, and it is no surprise
that this
never 
> caught on with bass men: the open cabinet robbed the speakers of tight bass
response,
 
> while the light mass of the individual 10" speakers resulted in a higher
resonant 
> frequency. This was ideal for what was to come: distortion and the trebly
sustain that
 
> characterized guitar sound in the late 1960s. 
> 
> _______________________ 
> 
> --- In , dave wronski <stickmandw@y...>
wrote: 
> > If you use an amp with four ten's you are moving 40 
> > inches of air, compared with 30 for a Showman. 
> 
> > > 10 inch speakers? A mystery to me. I've heard many 
> > > of you mention using amps with 
> > > 10's. I've heard most of the bands on this list and 
> > > some of you using that set up 
> > > sound GREAT, but what's the deal? I thought 12's or 
> > > 15's had more sonic boom.> > Dale 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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