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No, the bottom end is not dropping out, it is just part of the
spectrum. What are you listening on? What kind of amp and monitors or
headphones?
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> phil,
>
> i do notice that it sounds better. However, check this
> out. With the exact same set up im going to strum
> chords. DO you think the bottem end is disapearing
> like it did before when i play chords ? it seems to
> me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do you
> think ?
>
> file is direct2.mp3
>
> btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one within
> a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as i get
> it !
>
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and
> > full-bodied the
> > sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier
> > samples, especially the
> > low-E.
> >
> > One of several things this means is that the problem
> > is what's between
> > the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
> >
> > Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no
> > color at all, just
> > cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56
> > or m-57 mic and no
> > eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45
> > degrees to the center
> > of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center,
> > about 3 inches
> > away.
> > Then lets see (hear) what happens.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> > > hey phil,
> > >
> > > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each
> > string
> > > plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no
> > EQ
> > > or nothin.
> > >
> > > thanks for sticking with me !
> > >
> > > neal
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in
> > directly
> > > > - that is,
> > > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > > >
> > > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > > not there to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > > > guitar only on each
> > > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> > > >
> > > > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > > > variables being tweaked
> > > > together only leads to more chaos unless by
> > sheer
> > > > luck you step in it
> > > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant
> > of
> > > > the pile you started
> > > > with.
> > > >
> > > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > > Only later can you insert more toys and then
> > just
> > > > one at a time until
> > > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause
> > you to
> > > > go back and twek
> > > > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > > > point. When you go
> > > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it
> > doesn't
> > > > do what yu want it
> > > > tp, then reset everything to where they were
> > before
> > > > proceeding.
> > > >
> > > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all
> > about
> > > > delay. The tone is
> > > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not
> > a
> > > > strong sound. If it's
> > > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going
> > to
> > > > get the best
> > > > result.
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt
> > have
> > > > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > > > telling
> > > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> > realizing
> > > > about
> > > > > this last week.
> > > > >
> > > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > > > sample
> > > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > > > behringer
> > > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > > >
> > > > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything
> > out
> > > > of
> > > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but
> > i
> > > > had
> > > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > > > POD,
> > > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > > > when i
> > > > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense'
> > and
> > > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > > > strummed
> > > > > a chord it was all distortion because of the
> > max
> > > > > volume.
> > > > >
> > > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and
> > stuck
> > > > the
> > > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes
> > ). my
> > > > new
> > > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > > >
> > > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so
> > im
> > > > know
> > > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > > particular
> > > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the
> > grill
> > > > off
> > > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer.
> > no
> > > > EQ,
> > > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also
> > into
> > > > a
> > > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > > >
> > > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > > recording
> > > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > > > nose in
> > > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > > > >
> > > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought
> > the
> > > > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics
> > from
> > > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use
> > mackie
> > > > i
> > > > > know that when i presented them the behringer
> > vs
> > > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the
> > less,
> > > > im
> > > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > > >
> > > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called
> > tapeop (
> > > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > > definitly
> > > > > get )
> > > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> > collection
> > > > of
> > > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM
> > )
> > > > and
> > > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > > > sound
> > > > > albums
> > > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp,
> > and a
> > > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > > > gear, i
> > > > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > > > $150.
> > > > >
> > > > > what do would you say to someone presenting
> > you
> > > > with
> > > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been
> > looking to
> > > > buy
> > > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or
> > where
> > > > to
> > > > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic,
> > sm57
> > > > ?
> > > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that
> > have
> > > > been
> > > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > > >
> > > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > > > going to
> > > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks WR !
> > > > > neal
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to
> > send me
> > > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded
> > guitar,
> > > > to
> > > > > show me what it should sound like, and the
> > gear
> > > > you
> > > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > > interested in your problems. having said
> > that,
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > for all practical
> > > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and
> > perhaps
> > > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to
> > make?
> > > > btw,
> > > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed,
> > BUT,
> > > > it
> > > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the
> > highs
> > > > are
> > > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result
> > in
> > > > just
> > > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > > > out,
> > > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have
> > to
> > > > check
> > > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > > though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old'
> > post,
> > > > > > assume your still
> > > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is
> > quite
> > > > a
> > > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > > most if not all not professional level. Now,
> > I
> > > > work
> > > > > > with the same
> > > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > > > 'cheap'
> > > > > > gear, will
> > > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule
> > of
> > > > thumb
> > > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > > > really
> > > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it
> > out
> > > > of
> > > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down
> > (I'm
> > > > using
> > > > > > the name
> > > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > > > puts
> > > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> > frankly, I
> > > > am
> > > > > > impressed with
> > > > > > what they can offer for little cash), they
> > did a
> > > > > > great job making
> > > > > > recording stuff available for the masses,
> > and
> > > > you
> > > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but
> > still:
> > > > they
> > > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely
> > be a
> > > > > > victim of
> > > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables,
> > these
> > > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you
> > want
> > > > it
> > > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at
> > least my
> > > > > > experience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > > > tweaked
> > > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem
> > be
> > > > there?
> > > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > > > pretty
> > > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler
> > for
> > > > an
> > > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get
> > this:
> > > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad
> > recorded
> > > > his
> > > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you
> > know,
> > > > the
> > > > > > ones that
> > > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front -
> > massive
> > > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the
> > guy
> > > > a
> > > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > > recording.
> > > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > > > they'll
> > > > > > do more for your
> > > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I
> > bought
> > > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and
> > entry
> > > > level
> > > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > > helped me understand so much about what the
> > F i
> > > > was
> > > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for
> > books.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread
> > going
> > > > for
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > interested,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WR
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In , "Neal
> > S."
> > > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain
> > a
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> > sample9b.mp3
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ?
> > let
> > > > me
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go
> > back
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really
> > dead
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > > > Strings?
> > > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost
> > no
> > > > low
> > > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics
> > and
> > > > > > color).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed
> > out
> > > > making
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with
> > the
> > > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> > virtually
> > > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either
> > strings or
> > > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you
> > don't
> > > > mean
> > > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > > > other
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > > Neptunas.
> > > > > > With
> > > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored
> > version.
> > > > This
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> > originals.
> > > > Even
> > > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder
> > is
> > > > > > called
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> > modeling.
> > > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI
> > without
> > > > the
> > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some
> > EQ (
> > > > > > that i
> > > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a
> > pre
> > > > amp
> > > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little
> > reverb.
> > > > Also
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor,
> > but
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and
> > have
> > > > just
> > > > > > heard
> > > > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors.
> > how
> > > > do
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i
> > work on
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound.
> > or
> > > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > > both. and anything else you can think
> > of.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > > > just
> > > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to
> > more
> > > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting
> > them
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > .
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