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phil,
i do notice that it sounds better. However, check this
out. With the exact same set up im going to strum
chords. DO you think the bottem end is disapearing
like it did before when i play chords ? it seems to
me, everything kinda muddies up fast. what do you
think ?
file is direct2.mp3
btw, im tracking down an sm57. should have one within
a couple days, ill post the samples as soon as i get
it !
--- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and
> full-bodied the
> sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier
> samples, especially the
> low-E.
>
> One of several things this means is that the problem
> is what's between
> the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
>
> Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no
> color at all, just
> cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56
> or m-57 mic and no
> eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45
> degrees to the center
> of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center,
> about 3 inches
> away.
> Then lets see (hear) what happens.
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
>
> > hey phil,
> >
> > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each
> string
> > plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no
> EQ
> > or nothin.
> >
> > thanks for sticking with me !
> >
> > neal
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
> >
> > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in
> directly
> > > - that is,
> > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > >
> > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > not there to begin with.
> > >
> > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > > guitar only on each
> > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> > >
> > > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > > variables being tweaked
> > > together only leads to more chaos unless by
> sheer
> > > luck you step in it
> > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant
> of
> > > the pile you started
> > > with.
> > >
> > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > Only later can you insert more toys and then
> just
> > > one at a time until
> > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause
> you to
> > > go back and twek
> > > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > > point. When you go
> > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it
> doesn't
> > > do what yu want it
> > > tp, then reset everything to where they were
> before
> > > proceeding.
> > >
> > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all
> about
> > > delay. The tone is
> > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not
> a
> > > strong sound. If it's
> > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going
> to
> > > get the best
> > > result.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt
> have
> > > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > > telling
> > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly
> realizing
> > > about
> > > > this last week.
> > > >
> > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > > sample
> > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > > behringer
> > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > >
> > > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything
> out
> > > of
> > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but
> i
> > > had
> > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > > POD,
> > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > > when i
> > > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense'
> and
> > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > > strummed
> > > > a chord it was all distortion because of the
> max
> > > > volume.
> > > >
> > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and
> stuck
> > > the
> > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes
> ). my
> > > new
> > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > >
> > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so
> im
> > > know
> > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > particular
> > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the
> grill
> > > off
> > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer.
> no
> > > EQ,
> > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also
> into
> > > a
> > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > >
> > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > recording
> > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > > nose in
> > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > > >
> > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought
> the
> > > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics
> from
> > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use
> mackie
> > > i
> > > > know that when i presented them the behringer
> vs
> > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the
> less,
> > > im
> > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > >
> > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called
> tapeop (
> > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > definitly
> > > > get )
> > > > anyway i recently bought their book of
> collection
> > > of
> > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM
> )
> > > and
> > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > > sound
> > > > albums
> > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp,
> and a
> > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > > gear, i
> > > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > > $150.
> > > >
> > > > what do would you say to someone presenting
> you
> > > with
> > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been
> looking to
> > > buy
> > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or
> where
> > > to
> > > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic,
> sm57
> > > ?
> > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that
> have
> > > been
> > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > >
> > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > > going to
> > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > thanks WR !
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to
> send me
> > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded
> guitar,
> > > to
> > > > show me what it should sound like, and the
> gear
> > > you
> > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > >
> > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > interested in your problems. having said
> that,
> > > I'm
> > > > > for all practical
> > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and
> perhaps
> > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to
> make?
> > > btw,
> > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed,
> BUT,
> > > it
> > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the
> highs
> > > are
> > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result
> in
> > > just
> > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > > out,
> > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have
> to
> > > check
> > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > though.
> > > > >
> > > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old'
> post,
> > > > > assume your still
> > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is
> quite
> > > a
> > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > most if not all not professional level. Now,
> I
> > > work
> > > > > with the same
> > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > > 'cheap'
> > > > > gear, will
> > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule
> of
> > > thumb
> > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > > really
> > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it
> out
> > > of
> > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down
> (I'm
> > > using
> > > > > the name
> > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > > puts
> > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite
> frankly, I
> > > am
> > > > > impressed with
> > > > > what they can offer for little cash), they
> did a
> > > > > great job making
> > > > > recording stuff available for the masses,
> and
> > > you
> > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but
> still:
> > > they
> > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely
> be a
> > > > > victim of
> > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables,
> these
> > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you
> want
> > > it
> > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at
> least my
> > > > > experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > > tweaked
> > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem
> be
> > > there?
> > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > > pretty
> > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > >
> > > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler
> for
> > > an
> > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get
> this:
> > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad
> recorded
> > > his
> > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you
> know,
> > > the
> > > > > ones that
> > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front -
> massive
> > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the
> guy
> > > a
> > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > >
> > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > recording.
> > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > > they'll
> > > > > do more for your
> > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I
> bought
> > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and
> entry
> > > level
> > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > helped me understand so much about what the
> F i
> > > was
> > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for
> books.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread
> going
> > > for
> > > > > those
> > > > > interested,
> > > > >
> > > > > WR
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In , "Neal
> S."
> > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain
> a
> > > > > better
> > > > > > tone ! can you please check out
> sample9b.mp3
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ?
> let
> > > me
> > > > > know
> > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go
> back
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really
> dead
> > > and
> > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > > Strings?
> > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost
> no
> > > low
> > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics
> and
> > > > > color).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed
> out
> > > making
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with
> the
> > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was
> virtually
> > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either
> strings or
> > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you
> don't
> > > mean
> > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > > problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > > other
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > Neptunas.
> > > > > With
> > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored
> version.
> > > This
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your
> originals.
> > > Even
> > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples
> in
> > > the
> > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder
> is
> > > > > called
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab
> modeling.
> > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI
> without
> > > the
> > > > > amp
> > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some
> EQ (
> > > > > that i
> > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a
> pre
> > > amp
> > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little
> reverb.
> > > Also
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor,
> but
> > > with
> > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and
> have
> > > just
> > > > > heard
> > > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors.
> how
> > > do
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i
> work on
> > > the
> > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound.
> or
> > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > both. and anything else you can think
> of.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > > just
> > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to
> more
> > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting
> them
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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