Menu
and to add to Phil's (excellent)points.
- the problem also isn't in the soundcard/pc part, appearantly
- you might want to go back to the pod, it's a line6 right? are you
sure it's not a setting problem, or an impedance mismatch? I don't
have any experience with a pod, but so many people ar so enthusiastic
about it, and get WAY better results, that I'm curious why it doesn't
work properly in your case.
- I am VERY sceptical about a $10 mic, period, if it's the kind of
mic I suspect it is (if the store offers is in various colors, that
usually a clue ;-) than you might as well use an reversly connected
walkman headphone (my first mic!)... there are reasonbably priced
SM57 and SM58 copies on the market, Shure itself also has a budget
line, no experience with those though. In any case, if you have a
little spare cash, a decent mic is a very cool thing to own. my 2 cts
WR
--- In , Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
>
> I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and full-bodied the
> sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier samples, especially
the
> low-E.
>
> One of several things this means is that the problem is what's
between
> the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
>
> Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no color at all, just
> cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56 or m-57 mic
and no
> eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45 degrees to the
center
> of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center, about 3 inches
> away.
> Then lets see (hear) what happens.
>
> Phil
>
> --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
>
> > hey phil,
> >
> > i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each string
> > plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no EQ
> > or nothin.
> >
> > thanks for sticking with me !
> >
> > neal
> >
> > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> >
> > > What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly
> > > - that is,
> > > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> > >
> > > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > > indistinct, as if they are
> > > not there to begin with.
> > >
> > > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > > guitar only on each
> > > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> > >
> > > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > > variables being tweaked
> > > together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer
> > > luck you step in it
> > > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of
> > > the pile you started
> > > with.
> > >
> > > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > > Only later can you insert more toys and then just
> > > one at a time until
> > > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to
> > > go back and twek
> > > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > > point. When you go
> > > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't
> > > do what yu want it
> > > tp, then reset everything to where they were before
> > > proceeding.
> > >
> > > While the new sample sounds better, it's all about
> > > delay. The tone is
> > > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > > placid. In a mix, it
> > > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a
> > > strong sound. If it's
> > > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to
> > > get the best
> > > result.
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> > > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > > telling
> > > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing
> > > about
> > > > this last week.
> > > >
> > > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > > sample
> > > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > > behringer
> > > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > > >
> > > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything out
> > > of
> > > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i
> > > had
> > > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > > POD,
> > > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > > when i
> > > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> > > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > > strummed
> > > > a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> > > > volume.
> > > >
> > > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck
> > > the
> > > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my
> > > new
> > > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > > >
> > > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im
> > > know
> > > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > > particular
> > > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill
> > > off
> > > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no
> > > EQ,
> > > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into
> > > a
> > > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > > >
> > > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > > recording
> > > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > > nose in
> > > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > > >
> > > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> > > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> > > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie
> > > i
> > > > know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> > > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less,
> > > im
> > > > seeing that it is crap.
> > > >
> > > > I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> > > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > > definitly
> > > > get )
> > > > anyway i recently bought their book of collection
> > > of
> > > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM )
> > > and
> > > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > > sound
> > > > albums
> > > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> > > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > > gear, i
> > > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > > $150.
> > > >
> > > > what do would you say to someone presenting you
> > > with
> > > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to
> > > buy
> > > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where
> > > to
> > > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57
> > > ?
> > > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have
> > > been
> > > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > > >
> > > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > > going to
> > > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > thanks WR !
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> > > > thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar,
> > > to
> > > > show me what it should sound like, and the gear
> > > you
> > > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- mono_tones_1 <rockverb@h...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Neal
> > > > >
> > > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > > sympathetic and
> > > > > interested in your problems. having said that,
> > > I'm
> > > > > for all practical
> > > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > > approach is 'from
> > > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > > > > should be taken with
> > > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make?
> > > btw,
> > > > > best tip is at
> > > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT,
> > > it
> > > > > seems to me that
> > > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs
> > > are
> > > > > still a bit thin
> > > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in
> > > just
> > > > > adding mush to
> > > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > > out,
> > > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to
> > > check
> > > > > it in a mix
> > > > > though.
> > > > >
> > > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > > > > assume your still
> > > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite
> > > a
> > > > > lot there, and
> > > > > most if not all not professional level. Now, I
> > > work
> > > > > with the same
> > > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > > 'cheap'
> > > > > gear, will
> > > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of
> > > thumb
> > > > > I use is "don't
> > > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > > really
> > > > > need it". and that
> > > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out
> > > of
> > > > > the signal chain.
> > > > > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm
> > > using
> > > > > the name
> > > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > > puts
> > > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I
> > > am
> > > > > impressed with
> > > > > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > > > > great job making
> > > > > recording stuff available for the masses, and
> > > you
> > > > > got to love that,
> > > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but still:
> > > they
> > > > > do have lesser
> > > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > > > > victim of
> > > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > > > > things add to the risk
> > > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you want
> > > it
> > > > > to, and does do
> > > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > > > > experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > > tweaked
> > > > > the moddeler's
> > > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be
> > > there?
> > > > > what kind is it?
> > > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > > pretty
> > > > > useless for guitar
> > > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > > >
> > > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler for
> > > an
> > > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded
> > > his
> > > > > guitar through a
> > > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know,
> > > the
> > > > > ones that
> > > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy
> > > a
> > > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > > >
> > > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > > recording.
> > > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > > they'll
> > > > > do more for your
> > > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > > > > 'home recording for
> > > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry
> > > level
> > > > > as it is, it
> > > > > helped me understand so much about what the F i
> > > was
> > > > > trying to do.
> > > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going
> > > for
> > > > > those
> > > > > interested,
> > > > >
> > > > > WR
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In , "Neal S."
> > > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > > > > better
> > > > > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let
> > > me
> > > > > know
> > > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go back
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > drawing board.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks !
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead
> > > and
> > > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > > Strings?
> > > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no
> > > low
> > > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > > > > color).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out
> > > making
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > > > > direct, I
> > > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > > > > pickups
> > > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't
> > > mean
> > > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > > problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > > other
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > > Neptunas.
> > > > > With
> > > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version.
> > > This
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals.
> > > Even
> > > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in
> > > the
> > > > > FILES
> > > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > > > > called
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without
> > > the
> > > > > amp
> > > > > > > modeling
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > > > > that i
> > > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre
> > > amp
> > > > > ( to
> > > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb.
> > > Also
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but
> > > with
> > > > > > > unity
> > > > > > > gain.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have
> > > just
> > > > > heard
> > > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how
> > > do
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on
> > > the
> > > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > > > > scratch
> > > > > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > neal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > > just
> > > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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