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I'm sure you can tell how much more definition and full-bodied the
sound of the guitar is than any of the earlier samples, especially the
low-E.
One of several things this means is that the problem is what's between
the guitar and the mp3, not the guitar.
Now, do the same thing into the amp only with no color at all, just
cranked to maybe 75% (no amp distortin). Use an m-56 or m-57 mic and no
eq or anythng in the board. Place the mic at 45 degrees to the center
of the best speaker cone, aimed at the very center, about 3 inches
away.
Then lets see (hear) what happens.
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> hey phil,
>
> i put the sample up. direct.mp3. its just each string
> plucked and sustained, straight into the board, no EQ
> or nothin.
>
> thanks for sticking with me !
>
> neal
>
> --- Phil Dirt <> wrote:
>
> > What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly
> > - that is,
> > completely un-colored and not amplified.
> >
> > More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and
> > indistinct, as if they are
> > not there to begin with.
> >
> > Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the
> > guitar only on each
> > string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
> >
> > Trying to solve any process problem with many
> > variables being tweaked
> > together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer
> > luck you step in it
> > and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of
> > the pile you started
> > with.
> >
> > Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
> > Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
> > Only later can you insert more toys and then just
> > one at a time until
> > you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to
> > go back and twek
> > something else, but at least you have a starting
> > point. When you go
> > back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't
> > do what yu want it
> > tp, then reset everything to where they were before
> > proceeding.
> >
> > While the new sample sounds better, it's all about
> > delay. The tone is
> > not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's
> > placid. In a mix, it
> > will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a
> > strong sound. If it's
> > not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to
> > get the best
> > result.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > --- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> >
> > > thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> > > come at a better time, because your basically
> > telling
> > > me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing
> > about
> > > this last week.
> > >
> > > let me first tell you the signal chain of new
> > sample
> > > 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the
> > behringer
> > > eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
> > >
> > > I could not for the life of squeeze anything out
> > of
> > > the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i
> > had
> > > the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the
> > POD,
> > > the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins.
> > when i
> > > played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> > > level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i
> > strummed
> > > a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> > > volume.
> > >
> > > so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck
> > the
> > > amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my
> > new
> > > saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
> > >
> > > Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im
> > know
> > > theres still plenty of room for that. this
> > particular
> > > sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill
> > off
> > > axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no
> > EQ,
> > > just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into
> > a
> > > reverb standalone VST plug-in.
> > >
> > > i just bought a book ! its callled "modern
> > recording
> > > techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my
> > nose in
> > > that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
> > >
> > > about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> > > behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> > > mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie
> > i
> > > know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> > > mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> > > 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less,
> > im
> > > seeing that it is crap.
> > >
> > > I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> > > which if your a home recorder, you should
> > definitly
> > > get )
> > > anyway i recently bought their book of collection
> > of
> > > articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM )
> > and
> > > it seems like almost everyone is geting great
> > sound
> > > albums
> > > with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> > > tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive
> > gear, i
> > > mean i could go buy all that used for probaly
> > $150.
> > >
> > > what do would you say to someone presenting you
> > with
> > > this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to
> > buy
> > > a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where
> > to
> > > start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57
> > ?
> > > Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have
> > been
> > > heavily compared to the sm57/58.
> > >
> > > finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im
> > going to
> > > get right to work on your suggestions.
> > >
> > > thanks WR !
> > > neal
> > >
> > >
> > > PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> > > thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar,
> > to
> > > show me what it should sound like, and the gear
> > you
> > > use. that would probaly help me out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Neal
> > > >
> > > > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > > > sympathetic and
> > > > interested in your problems. having said that,
> > I'm
> > > > for all practical
> > > > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > > > approach is 'from
> > > > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > > > should be taken with
> > > > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > > > experienced sound guru's
> > > > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make?
> > btw,
> > > > best tip is at
> > > > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> > > >
> > > > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT,
> > it
> > > > seems to me that
> > > > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs
> > are
> > > > still a bit thin
> > > > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in
> > just
> > > > adding mush to
> > > > mix, because the well defined lows will come
> > out,
> > > > but the mushy lows
> > > > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to
> > check
> > > > it in a mix
> > > > though.
> > > >
> > > > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > > > assume your still
> > > > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite
> > a
> > > > lot there, and
> > > > most if not all not professional level. Now, I
> > work
> > > > with the same
> > > > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding
> > 'cheap'
> > > > gear, will
> > > > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of
> > thumb
> > > > I use is "don't
> > > > add anything that says 'behringer' till you
> > really
> > > > need it". and that
> > > > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out
> > of
> > > > the signal chain.
> > > > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm
> > using
> > > > the name
> > > > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone
> > puts
> > > > 'em down, but it
> > > > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I
> > am
> > > > impressed with
> > > > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > > > great job making
> > > > recording stuff available for the masses, and
> > you
> > > > got to love that,
> > > > and their stuff works pretty well, but still:
> > they
> > > > do have lesser
> > > > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > > > victim of
> > > > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > > > things add to the risk
> > > > that what your adding doesn't do what you want
> > it
> > > > to, and does do
> > > > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > > > experience.
> > > >
> > > > there's a moddeler in your line - have you
> > tweaked
> > > > the moddeler's
> > > > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be
> > there?
> > > > what kind is it?
> > > > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's
> > pretty
> > > > useless for guitar
> > > > (workable for bass tho)
> > > >
> > > > have you thought about changing the moddeler for
> > an
> > > > amp and mic? And
> > > > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > > > Tres Manos from
> > > > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded
> > his
> > > > guitar through a
> > > > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know,
> > the
> > > > ones that
> > > > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > > > sound! (and this is
> > > > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy
> > a
> > > > guitar a while ago,
> > > > and I asked about it.)
> > > >
> > > > and here's the best tip: buy a book on
> > recording.
> > > > Amazon has a bunch,
> > > > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and
> > they'll
> > > > do more for your
> > > > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > > > 'home recording for
> > > > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry
> > level
> > > > as it is, it
> > > > helped me understand so much about what the F i
> > was
> > > > trying to do.
> > > > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> > > >
> > > > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going
> > for
> > > > those
> > > > interested,
> > > >
> > > > WR
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "Neal S."
> > > > <memoryover@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > phil, and anyone else,
> > > > >
> > > > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > > > better
> > > > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let
> > me
> > > > know
> > > > > if its more workable, or if i should go back
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > drawing board.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks !
> > > > >
> > > > > neal
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead
> > and
> > > > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle."
> > Strings?
> > > > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no
> > low
> > > > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > > > color).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out
> > making
> > > > it
> > > > > > sound powerful and
> > > > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > > > guitar/amp.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > > > direct, I
> > > > > > am assuming that
> > > > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > > > pickups
> > > > > > or they was you
> > > > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't
> > mean
> > > > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > > > problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only
> > other
> > > > time
> > > > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the
> > Neptunas.
> > > > With
> > > > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version.
> > This
> > > > is
> > > > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals.
> > Even
> > > > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > alright phil and others,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in
> > the
> > > > FILES
> > > > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > > > called
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without
> > the
> > > > amp
> > > > > > modeling
> > > > > >
> > > > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > > > that i
> > > > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre
> > amp
> > > > ( to
> > > > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb.
> > Also
> > > > they
> > > > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but
> > with
> > > > > > unity
> > > > > > gain.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have
> > just
> > > > heard
> > > > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how
> > do
> > > > my
> > > > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on
> > the
> > > > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > > > scratch
> > > > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > > > viturally of
> > > > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of
> > just
> > > > > > guitar,
> > > > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > > > professional
> > > > > > > recordin
> > > > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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