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What does the guitar sound like plugged in directly - that is,
completely un-colored and not amplified.
More lows, but as someone noted, mushy and indistinct, as if they are
not there to begin with.
Play a couple of fully sustained notes from the guitar only on each
string (open, no fretting). Put up that sample.
Trying to solve any process problem with many variables being tweaked
together only leads to more chaos unless by sheer luck you step in it
and the "it" is the answer instead of a variant of the pile you started
with.
Guitar alone - what does it sound like?
Guitar and amp, what can you do there?
Only later can you insert more toys and then just one at a time until
you get it worked out. Each new toy may cause you to go back and twek
something else, but at least you have a starting point. When you go
back, tweak only one thing at a time. If it doesn't do what yu want it
tp, then reset everything to where they were before proceeding.
While the new sample sounds better, it's all about delay. The tone is
not very pleasing. It is not very rich, and it's placid. In a mix, it
will be less harshly judged. It's certainly not a strong sound. If it's
not strong to begin with, doctoring is not going to get the best
result.
Phil
--- "Neal S." <> wrote:
> thanks for the feedback ! your email, couldnt have
> come at a better time, because your basically telling
> me everything ive been kinda suddenly realizing about
> this last week.
>
> let me first tell you the signal chain of new sample
> 10$ mic > crate 1x12 (solid state amp) > the behringer
> eurorack mixer, 24/96 soundcard.
>
> I could not for the life of squeeze anything out of
> the POD. I did get one acceptable sample, but i had
> the Eq turned up on everything to the max, the POD,
> the board, and about 4 stacked module plugins. when i
> played quietly it sounded about the 'presense' and
> level of guitars i hear on cd. however when i strummed
> a chord it was all distortion because of the max
> volume.
>
> so i gave it up for the mic/amp combo, and stuck the
> amp in my closet ( 3' x 3' x 3' with clothes ). my new
> saying i guess is "F the neighbors !"
>
> Now im very inexperienced at micing an amp, so im know
> theres still plenty of room for that. this particular
> sample it was placed about 2 inches from the grill off
> axis. like i said straight XLR into the mixer. no EQ,
> just whatever tone i got out of the amp. also into a
> reverb standalone VST plug-in.
>
> i just bought a book ! its callled "modern recording
> techniques" by huber and runstein. so i got my nose in
> that. your right, i shoulda went here first.
>
> about the behringer/cheap gear thing. i bought the
> behringer, cause well, they steal schematics from
> mackie. i have a bunch of friends that use mackie i
> know that when i presented them the behringer vs
> mackie argument, they were only fighting my in
> 'reliability' not 'sound quality'. none the less, im
> seeing that it is crap.
>
> I subscribe to this free magazine called tapeop (
> which if your a home recorder, you should definitly
> get )
> anyway i recently bought their book of collection of
> articles ( surf content : they interviewd MOAM ) and
> it seems like almost everyone is geting great sound
> albums
> with a shure SM57, an ART tube pre mic amp, and a
> tascam 4 track. now surely this isnt expensive gear, i
> mean i could go buy all that used for probaly $150.
>
> what do would you say to someone presenting you with
> this data? these last 2 weeks, ive been looking to buy
> a mic pre amp, i have no idea what to get or where to
> start. ive also am going to replace the mic, sm57 ?
> Nady makes these starpower mics for 7$ that have been
> heavily compared to the sm57/58.
>
> finally, thanks for the sound/tone advice. im going to
> get right to work on your suggestions.
>
> thanks WR !
> neal
>
>
> PS, if you or anyone at home would like to send me
> thier own sample of just a home recorded guitar, to
> show me what it should sound like, and the gear you
> use. that would probaly help me out.
>
>
>
> --- mono_tones_1 <> wrote:
>
> > Hi Neal
> >
> > busy figuring out recording myself, I'm both
> > sympathetic and
> > interested in your problems. having said that, I'm
> > for all practical
> > purposes as unexperienced as you are, and my
> > approach is 'from
> > scratch', so, really, my advice can and perhaps
> > should be taken with
> > a grain of salt. - perhaps one of the more
> > experienced sound guru's
> > can elaborate on the points I'm about to make? btw,
> > best tip is at
> > the bottom so keep readin' ;-)
> >
> > your new sample sound a lot better indeed, BUT, it
> > seems to me that
> > the extra lows are very mushy, while the highs are
> > still a bit thin
> > and 'digital' sounding ... this might result in just
> > adding mush to
> > mix, because the well defined lows will come out,
> > but the mushy lows
> > might drown in the other lows... you'd have to check
> > it in a mix
> > though.
> >
> > i checked your recording line in the 'old' post,
> > assume your still
> > working with that gear. I noticed there is quite a
> > lot there, and
> > most if not all not professional level. Now, I work
> > with the same
> > kind of gear, and my theory is, that adding 'cheap'
> > gear, will
> > add 'cheap' sound. the absurdly blunt rule of thumb
> > I use is "don't
> > add anything that says 'behringer' till you really
> > need it". and that
> > doesn't just mean switch it of, but get it out of
> > the signal chain.
> > Not to put behringer or any company down (I'm using
> > the name
> > behringer metaforically here, cause everyone puts
> > 'em down, but it
> > goes for all cheap brands, adn quite frankly, I am
> > impressed with
> > what they can offer for little cash), they did a
> > great job making
> > recording stuff available for the masses, and you
> > got to love that,
> > and their stuff works pretty well, but still: they
> > do have lesser
> > sound quality then pro-stuff, you'll likely be a
> > victim of
> > inexperienced use, you have more cables, these
> > things add to the risk
> > that what your adding doesn't do what you want it
> > to, and does do
> > what you don't want it to do! that's at least my
> > experience.
> >
> > there's a moddeler in your line - have you tweaked
> > the moddeler's
> > controls to the full, couldn't the problem be there?
> > what kind is it?
> > I have one built in in the vs880, and it's pretty
> > useless for guitar
> > (workable for bass tho)
> >
> > have you thought about changing the moddeler for an
> > amp and mic? And
> > before you say 'bedroom - neighbours', get this:
> > Tres Manos from
> > Dutch hiphop rockband Urban Dance Squad recorded his
> > guitar through a
> > battery powerd desktop mini marshall - you know, the
> > ones that
> > measure 3 by 5 inch ... mic in front - massive
> > sound! (and this is
> > not just internet urban legend - I sold the guy a
> > guitar a while ago,
> > and I asked about it.)
> >
> > and here's the best tip: buy a book on recording.
> > Amazon has a bunch,
> > for less then what a decent 12ax7 costs, and they'll
> > do more for your
> > recording then any piece of equipment. I bought
> > 'home recording for
> > dummies' a while back, and as crude and entry level
> > as it is, it
> > helped me understand so much about what the F i was
> > trying to do.
> > maybe someone has better suggestions for books.
> >
> > thanks for posting, let's keep this thread going for
> > those
> > interested,
> >
> > WR
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Neal S."
> > <memoryover@y...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > phil, and anyone else,
> > >
> > > ive been workin furiously trying to obtain a
> > better
> > > tone ! can you please check out sample9b.mp3 in
> > the
> > > NealCraptar folder in the files section ? let me
> > know
> > > if its more workable, or if i should go back to
> > the
> > > drawing board.
> > >
> > > thanks !
> > >
> > > neal
> > >
> > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Neal, a quick listen displayed a really dead and
> > > > colorless tone. The
> > > > word that comes to mind is "brittle." Strings?
> > > > Pickups? Amp?
> > > >
> > > > A quick look with EQ and you have almost no low
> > > > frequencies (where the
> > > > beef is) and no highs at all (harmonics and
> > color).
> > > >
> > > > A quick monkeying with reverb pointed out making
> > it
> > > > sound powerful and
> > > > rich requires solving the problem with the
> > > > guitar/amp.
> > > >
> > > > Since you said that sample 2 was virtually
> > direct, I
> > > > am assuming that
> > > > the guitar is the problem, either strings or
> > pickups
> > > > or they was you
> > > > set your controls. If by direct you don't mean
> > > > direct, but just mean
> > > > ampo flat, then the amp may still be the
> > problem.
> > > >
> > > > I can see why you're troubled. The only other
> > time
> > > > I've heard this dead
> > > > a tone was once with Leslita of the Neptunas.
> > With
> > > > major doctoring, it
> > > > only rose to marginally acceptable.
> > > >
> > > > Here are links to quickly doctored version. This
> > is
> > > > NOT what you'd do
> > > > to fix this, but comapre to your originals. Even
> > > > with the extreme bass
> > > > boost I used, there's little beef here.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > alright phil and others,
> > > >
> > > > please help me out. there are 2 samples in the
> > FILES
> > > > section on this yahoo group. the folder is
> > called
> > > >
> > > > "NealCraptar"
> > > >
> > > > sample 1 : is with head and cab modeling.
> > > > sample 2 : is pretty much just DI without the
> > amp
> > > > modeling
> > > >
> > > > both were recroded with fat strat, some EQ (
> > that i
> > > > always use ) and a behringer mixer as a pre amp
> > ( to
> > > > match up impedence ) and a little reverb. Also
> > they
> > > > were run through a tube amp compressor, but with
> > > > unity
> > > > gain.
> > > >
> > > > now, ive never been in a studio, and have just
> > heard
> > > > the guitar coming through the monitors. how do
> > my
> > > > samples differ ? would you suggest i work on the
> > > > modeled sound, or the strictly DI sound. or
> > scratch
> > > > both. and anything else you can think of.
> > > >
> > > > thanks, i appreciate this
> > > >
> > > > neal
> > > >
> > > > --- Phil Dirt <phildirt@r...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > that's novel - let's try it.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "Neal S." <memoryover@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > thanks phil, i can try most of these,
> > viturally of
> > > > > course ! if i post some quick riffs of just
> > > > guitar,
> > > > > can you tell me how they compare to more
> > > > > professional
> > > > > recordin
> > > > gs and how you might go about adjusting them
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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