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With VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, melody is a huge factor (supported by rhythm
and structure and sound). The most common mistake for new surf writers
is mistaking a chord progression os short string on notes for a melody.
I can't think of a simgle song I really like that doesn't have a strong
melody.
--- Ferenc Dobronyi <> wrote:
> Bill,
> First, I want you to know that I was not criticizing your songs...
> Song appreciation is a matter of taste, as is the writing of the
> song.
> Presumably, one writes a song to express themselves in an artistic
> manner. There are other motives for writing a song, but if you are
> writing
> surf/instro, it can't be for the money.
>
> So the task becomes: what do you want out of the songs you write? Are
> you trying to tell a story or capture a mood? Is it about releasing
> your
> aggression in a positive way? Are you trying to imitate or improve on
> your hero's work?
>
> There are many different ideas of exactly what a song is and how it
> should be written-- what comes first? the groove, the melody, the
> chord
> structure? I think we can all site examples of when a song has too
> much of one of these elements, but not enough of another. Then again,
> there
> are different listeners who might prefer an all groove song (think
> Rap), all chords- or riffs (think death metal), or all melody (think
> Teen-pop). ((I am using extreme examples of each of these genres,
> please don't start a thread telling me that Slayer has a song with a
> good
> melody, or that when Mary J Blige did a duet with Redman, it was a
> merge of melody and rap- I know, I don't care)).
>
> Bill, as to your question about where to start when writing a song.
> You can start with any one the axis'- melody, chord or groove. (If
> you are
> writing vocal tunes, lyrics would be a fourth axis). If you are
> interested in writing for the surf genre, there is a trademark groove
> associated
> already (boom da da boom boom da), although you are definitely not
> limited to this groove by any means as surf was open from the get go
> to beats
> from around the world.
>
> Now- chords or melody? It has been my experience that a song that
> starts with a melody will lead to more unusual chord structures, and
> hence a
> more original song. Many people site the melody as the most important
> part of surf music, so maybe you SHOULD start there. And, starting
> with an
> exotic scale can lead to a cool song. I read about the Hungarian
> Minor, worked on it a bit and came up with Magyara- it turned out to
> be my
> Dad's (a hungarian) favorite song of mine.
>
> But, if you are stuck for a melody, starting out with a chord
> structure and then coming up with a melody that fits can be extremely
> satisfying,
> and no less original.
>
> Major or Minor? It has been my experience that minor keys lean more
> towards mood and that major keys provoke melody. I guess that is
> obvious,
> but turning this around is yet another exciting challenge to be
> undertaken.
>
> There is an important fourth element- arrangement, or when recording-
> production. I think it is extremely important not to confuse
> arrangement/production with song writing. Arrangements define a genre
> rather than a song. A good song should be able to be arranged for a
> variety of genres. But to start out the song writing process by
> saying, well I'm going to have a glissando going into a reverb kick
> followed by
> the drum lick to Wipe Out and then the bassline to Pipeline with some
> pingy notes on top, will create a completely unoriginal, paint by
> numbers
> surf song. And, to my ear, there is lot of that happening in surf
> music these days. Arrangements are the wrapping for the present, but
> don't
> skimp on the gift for fancy paper and bows.
>
> I think a big mistake that people make is to listen only to songs in
> a single genre for inspiration. The originators of the surf genre
> reached
> far and wide to come up with the influences that distilled into "surf
> music", and even though the genre is 40 years old and well
> established,
> you should too.
>
> Here is another point- are you writing for a 4 piece or a trio?
> Sometimes when I watch a trio, it just seems like the guitarist is
> noodling
> around playing solos rather than playing a defined melody. Largely
> this is due to the fact that there are no chords to show movement and
> counterpoint to the melody. Great arrangers, like Dave Wronski, will
> play the melody and chords at the same time. Dave is also an
> extremely
> talented guitar player to be sure, but you don't have to be as
> skilled as he to throw in double stops or triads in your melody to
> give hints of
> the chord structure.
>
> An extreme act of labor or gift from god? Sometimes a whole song just
> pops into your head, as if the muse had landed on your shoulder. And
> sometimes you just have to sit down and work it out and keep on
> massaging what you've got until it is right. If you are going to sit
> around and
> wait for the muse, you might be waiting a long time, so be prepared
> to do the work. Personally, some of my songs have taken years to
> write- a
> riff that just turns over and over until it find the write
> counterpoint line. Many times I go to my 4 track with nothing and put
> down some
> chords and keep scratching that itch for a week 'til it comes
> together.
>
> A great exercise is to take apart your favorite songs. I don't mean
> to just learn how to play it, but to really examine where the melody
> starts
> in relation to the key of the song, and how the melody shifts as
> chords change. Really, look at it note by note against the chords.
>
> I think this is a very brief introduction to song writing. Really, it
> is different for everyone. One could write volumes about the subject,
> but
> rather than talk about it, it is better actually get yourself going.
> Talk about the songs after they are done. Write a lot-- not
> everything you
> write will be a gem and some deserve to get tossed out; keep the good
> parts and use them later. You don't have to be a great musician to
> write a
> song, in fact, some of the best musicians I know don't write at all.
> In summary, I think that the most important part is to make sure that
> your
> motivation for writing in the first place is to express yourself. A
> song is a good song if the writer has pusued his motivations fully,
> and
> completed them to his personal satisfaction. If anybody else likes
> it, that is a bonus, and if not, well, there is no accounting for
> taste.
>
> As Paul Westerberg said about song writing, "Nobody knows how to do
> it, but if you have to do it, you just do it"
>
> Ferenc
>
>
>
> "surfbandbill " wrote:
> >
> > Greetings all,
> > After some ever-so helpful tips from Pollo Del Ferenc, I thought
> I'd
> > put the question to the whole group: how can I improve my
> > songwriting? Should I start with a chord structure? A scale? Or
> do
> > I just write a melody line and see how things fall in?
> > I've been really happy with what I've written thus far for The Lava
> > Rats, but feel like I'm still missing some of the finer "ins and
> > outs" of writing in the surf idiom. I'd be really interested to
> hear
> > how some of you others with more experience go about penning your
> > tunes.
> > Thanks, and a happy holidays to all!
> > ~Bill~
=====
Phil Dirt
Reverb Central
PO Box 7240, Santa Cruz, CA 95061-7240 USA
KFJC 89.7 FM Stereo
Surf's Up! Saturdays 7-9 PM
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