Menu
great post from the man with the oval bassdrum!
no, i'm not a drummer, and yes, drums is a key-ingredient in surf. Drummer
and lead guitarist are on a shared 1st place when it comes to 'not allowed
to screw up'. Really, the bass and the rythm guitar can miss a not or a
chord every now and then (not saying they should, though), but a fuck up by
the drummer will be immediatly noticed. respect for all the drummers.
i like my surf drums to have a jazzy sound, a little back in the mix, very
dynamical and simple. Do all P.A.-people in general have a problem with
drummers that don't hit the kit as hard as they can?? Oh, and please no
compressors/gates on the drums!! Slacktone is the example to the rule, of
course, and obviously being a three-piece leaves much more room to the
drummer.
Good to point out the caravan-solo, but uhhh, isn't he playing bass there
too?
wannes
PS, your comment about pipeline, how about that version with steve ray
vaughn????
>From: "toofastjim" <>
>Reply-To:
>To: <>
>Subject: Re: [SurfGuitar101] A Drummer's Perspective? (attention
>TooFastJim)
>Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:16:39 -0500
>
>Shit! I thought this was a message board about MILF hunters worldwide - I
>must be in the wrong place. Seriously, I would like to think and hope that
>I'm not the only non-plank-plucker to hang out on this list. You don't
>have
>to rename the thing, either - surf music is primarily a guitar-driven genre
>anyway & getting the surf sound out of the guitar (strings, amps, speakers,
>effects, microphones, tubes, tube mods, tolex, grill cloth - all that
>shite)
>is of the utmost importance. It helps to have the right equipment (for all
>musicians, not just guitar) but once you start recording, the results can
>sound really good or really bad regardless of the instruments - its up to
>the engineer to accurately capture the sound being produced by each
>instrument - for most live surf gigs, you're on your own, so you better
>have
>the equipment to get the sound you're looking for - or be prepared to get
>pissed off and pout in the corner for a spell. Drums are pretty straight
>forward - you put the head on the drum & tighten it. Just like the guitar,
>there are certain heads & drum sizes to use to get the desired sound, but I
>think there are more alternatives in the guitar world - although from an
>aesthetic standpoint, if your guitar player is going to play with a vintage
>(or vintage-looking) Mosrite or Jag (not Jagstang OR Jagmaster) through a
>1965 Showman cabinet & matching 1965 blackface reverb tank, you may as
>well
>throw down 3/4 of what he paid for the cabinet alone on a vintage drum kit
>(prefereably in a sparkle or pearl wrap) to complete the whole retro/surf
>stage presentation - the whole band just looks authentic when you do it
>that
>way, but of course the sound has to come before all else.
>
>And now to the Q & A portion of our programme:
>
> > I really respect drummers and admire what they do (it seems impossible
>to
> > the non-player). What do you feel the drummer's role in a surf band
>should
> > be? Is it different than other genres?
>
>The drummer's role in any band is to provide a foundation for the rhythm
>section, upon which every other element of the music is based. If you
>don't
>have solid drums, bass & preferably rhythm guitar laying it down,
>everything on top of that, whether its a guitar melody line, organ solo or
>even a vocal, will not sound as good (read: full) as it can. I think its
>important for drummers in all genres not to overstep their bounds & start
>crowding the lead instrument (or vocal if there is one) - then one becomes
>less of a drummer & more of a wanker. For instro music, I view my role as
>a beat-keeper, particularly in the traditional four-piece arrangement that
>I
>am currently in. The same could be said for a five piece combo - factoring
>in the sax, organ or 3rd guitar - the drummer's role should be that of a
>beat-master, maybe throwing in some basic fills to transition from one
>section to the next with the occasional 8 or 16 bar drum break in every 3rd
>or 4th song. In a trio, its a little more difficult as there is a lot
>more space to fill with fewer people to do it - usually it can involve one
>single hyperactive guitar, too busy drums and/or an overplayed bass (if one
>or two of those elements is grossly out of proportion with the rest, the
>results could be less than gratifying). Slacktone would be the notable
>exception to this - they seem very balanced - as active as Dusty is, their
>recordings/performances never seem to favor one instrument - sure the drums
>are busy, but because of what Meyer Wronski is doing, the whole mix doesn't
>seem drum heavy. Conversely, as amazing as Dave Wronski is - the mix
>doesn't sound guitar heavy because of what's going on behind the 1971
>Ludwig
>Blue Sparkles - and of course whether you're listening to Mike or Sam on
>bass, they certainly contribute their 33.333% to the mix - again, the bass
>doesn't overtake the performance, but at the same time, its the furthest
>thing from a guitar and drum-dominated trio. Other trios augment their
>recording sound with an extra instrument (Mark Brodie's various projects or
>The Sir Finks come to mind) or sound effects & stuff (Destination Earth) &
>that's all good, but I'd be hard-pressed to find a trio that can pull it
>off
>as good as Slacktone. To get back to the question - in surf/instro music,
>there is no vocal, so the drummer has a little more room to embellish, but
>it should not be at the expense of the total band sound & particularly that
>of the lead instrument - I like to play in and out of whatever phrases the
>lead guy (or girl) is playing & just leave him be during the middle of it -
>afterall - everyone's looking at the guitar player anyway, right?
>
>
> > Whats the worst thing a guitar player can do to a drummer when playing?
>Play
> > too loud? Play out of time?
>
>No and yes. If I'm behind my kit & all I hear is the lead guitar, is he
>playing too loud?? Maybe... or maybe not. The mix may sound perfect out
>front (which is all that really matters) but because of my proximity to the
>other amps, my perception may be biased towards one instrument over the
>rest. In my situation, I play off the bass & the lead guitar - I like to
>hear the rhythm, too, & I think its essential to the overall
>instrumentation
>of the band, but I only need to hear the bass to groove with and the lead
>guitar to follow the changes. I can only assume that the rhythm guitar
>player is doing his part (he usually is) and filling out the sound, but I
>have enough problems holding onto two sticks and doing my own job. I would
>rather the guitar is too loud than too soft - my hearing might come back
>someday, but I rarely forgive myself if I screw something up because I
>can't
>hear the guitar (god damn our verson of 3rd Star in Monterey to hell). And
>yes, if someone goes out of time, especially the lead guitar player (or
>worse yet, the drummer) then that's no fun. Hopefully 75% of the band will
>be playing one way & the final fourth can find his way back into the folds
>&
>recover. If two people go one way and the other two go another, then it
>sounds like a wrestling match looks being filmed in the back of a panel van
>travelling down Sunset Blvd. on a limited budget. To summarize, its a
>clusterfuck, folks.
>
> > Where do you stand on the whole "Wipeout" issue? I remember a thread on
>Cow.
> > or Reverborama where most bands poo-poo'ed the notion of playing it
>live.
>Is
> > it a drummer's signature song or a tired stereotype of the genre?
>
>Well, "Wipeout" is a great example of good surf drums - the beat originated
>as a cadence played by drummers in the school marching band - but there are
>other good examples of surf drums too. I think because of the song's
>overwhelming popularity, it has achieved novelty status, so its probably
>common for cover bands to do it & say they do a surf tune & everyone will
>like it. While its certainly Ron Wilson's signature song, I don't think it
>has to be a drummer's signature song - at least in a modern surf band
>setting. I mean, normal rock drummers will probably come across it at
>some
>point in their development - figure out how to play it (which isn't that
>hard) & be done with it. As a fan and player of the true surf/instro
>music, I would join ranks with those that poo poo the notion of playing it
>live - I would say the same thing of Pipeline (go ahead, castrate the
>blasphemer) - I mean both songs are so well known (and so often covered)
>that I don't need to hear either one again (live or covered). If you're in
>a band & playing in a situation where playing those songs will get you more
>money, or prevent rotten vegetables from being hurled at you, then by all
>means play 'em. I just try and avoid those gigs if I can. Going back to
>the previous question again, the absolute worse thing that can happen to a
>drummer is when the guitar player goes out of time while you're playing one
>of the above-mentioned standards under protest in public & the whole thing
>becomes a debacle of mass proportions. So if you do decide to play Wipe
>Out, make sure it sounds impeccable & that everyone in the band can play it
>without a hitch - you don't want to be known as the surf band that can't
>play Wipe Out correctly - especially when that may be the only song the
>audience knows. I'll take Hal Blaine's performance on "K-39" or Mel
>Taylor's "Caravan" solo from The Ventures 1965 Live in Japan over "Wipe
>Out" any day.
>
> > What are some of the best surf tunes for drummers?
>
>To listen to or play? K-39 is just a masterpiece as far as a consistent
>recording, stick control & dynamics are concerned. I listen to surf music
>for the guitar sound (different textures & sounds, lead & rhythm interplay,
>etc), so as long as the drummer is doing his/her job than I'm happy as a
>listener. I really hate recordings where the guitar sound is great & the
>drums sound like crap (or worse when they sound like crap and they're too
>loud in the mix). Every drummer approaches a song differently, so some may
>be more enjoyable for some than others - it all depends on the drummer.
>Play any Straitjackets song & I'll like it because Jimmy Lester is an
>awesome drummer as are so many others. There are so many 1st Wave songs
>that feature good, yet simple & effective drums (Margaya by the Fender IV,
>Exotic by The Sentinals, Time Bomb by The Avengers VI, Surf Party by The
>Astronauts, Third Star from the Left by The Nocturnes, & of course The
>Wedge). The best surf tunes to play for drummers are what the drummers
>themselves make out of them. Personally I like playing all of the songs we
>play (both originals and covers) because I can play almost whatever I want
>&
>have a good time and not get in anyone else's way while doing it. I most
>enjoy playing a basic surf beat & listening to whatever evil sounds are
>coming out of the guitar amps with a big smile on my face - there is a
>reason we wear dark pants in The Nebulas!
>
>toofastjim
>The Nebulas
>
>www.thenebulas.com
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Je kan ook Messenger berichten op je mobiele telefoon ontvangen!
