Menu
Hi Jacob,
We happen to disagree on a few points regarding The Ventures vis-a-vis the HOF.
It's both unfortunate, and inaccurate on your part to impute anger in my reply!
Somehow, when I tell someone they're welcome to their opinion, that and that
alone should be sufficient to communicate that I respect their right to differ,
even if I do not happen to accept their opinion as valid.
I think semantics aside, we can agree however that based on prior inductions, if
The Ventures honestly do (as they've made patently obvious) want to be inducted,
there is abundant factual and subjective support to justify the nominating
committee to do just that.
Jan Wenner, who was "Rolling Stone" magazine, appears to have a lopsided amount
of influence on the acts chosen, and someone in an earlier posting, pointed out
there was some prejudice evident against The Ventures, (though why not against
The Surfaris and The Chantays, also?)
The boys have earned the recognition; they've paid the dues of several dozen
bands! I say further, that since this is something important to them, their
loyal fan base should participate in whatever way, signing petitions, persuading
others to do so, since this may be the best opportunity yet, to turn the
decision more positive, since the boys have gotten full into it, with the
support of Washington State government leaders, yet.
You make it sound as though you have an intimate moment-by-moment view into
their private lives, when you imply that this recent campaign is somehow
detracting from their home lives, and time with their families. Is this a fact
for which you have unassailable evidence, or is this just an assumption you've
made at great remove from the boys themselves?
The fact is, that at every stage of their career, Bob, Don, Nokie, and Mel, (now
Leon), have lived remarkably balanced lives, spending as much time as possible
at home, with family and loved ones close by. These guys are and have been
about as conventional in that regard, as possible, given the demands of their
chosen career.
One last thing, you put forth a notion that I've heard before from others, that
The Ventures songwriting, melodies, dynamics, etc, etc, yada yada yada, don't
bear up under comparison with other bands. I agree that the frenetic deadlines
their Record Company kept them under, forced them to create 24 - 30 brand-new
originals in a year's time, while on tour most of the time! Not easy to
maintain the highest standards on a consistent basis, under that kind of
pressure! Accepted as a given.
Still, they wrote several Gems that have become Instro classics in their own
right:
Journey To The Stars, (which stands up to ANY song of ANY era, as simply
outstanding IMHO),
Driving Guitars Spudnik/Surf Rider
Yellow Jacket The 2000 Pound Bee (Pts 1 &
2)
Pedal Pusher Gandy Dancer
Not to mention, I feel their unique, and unprecedented (at the time) arrangement
of Walk, Don't Run, taking it from a finger-picked, country-jazz number, and
magically transforming it into a Rock & Roll Guitar Anthem, certainly offers
objective proof of formidable vision, creativity and aesthetic sensibility
coming together in an immortal performance.
The Ventures' 1960 recording of this song is the equivalent of The Crown Jewels.
Jacob, you are most welcome to your opinions. However, there are many, myself
included, who feel the gems they created, more than compensate for other songs
that were mainly album-filler. Further, they created more gems than the vast
majority of other bands out there, which is one of the reasons their career has
spanned 45 years and still-counting, in itself yet another reason they oughta
be in the R&R HOF.
It's their decision to make, whether or not to pursue it. If they want it, they
have my unconditional support.
Peace,
Bruce D
jacobdobner <> wrote:
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame doesn't matter. Being in the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame will not make these guys any more immortal. And are
you aware of some of the bands in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? It
is like getting a Ventures video onto the MTV TRL Hall of Fame.
Chantays and Surfaris shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. But it is the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the only reason they are in is because
of it being a formality. Wipe Out is a crappy song. But more
recognizable than Walk Don't Run.
I use better in the sense of more energy, better songwriting(melody
and dynamics), and albums as a whole.
>
> You're welcome to your opinions, Jacob, but you won't find much
support for them on this discussion group. Certainly none from me.
>
That was very subtle at being terribly angry at me. Perhaps you should
have worded it like "I respect your opinions but I must stand
steadfast in my opinion that the Ventures must, beyond a shadow of
doubt, be admitted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame". Or you could
just do what you did.
>
> One last thing, Jacob. You say the guys are trying too hard. Do
you have an ounce of empathy or compassion in your soul? At the
current age, (and likely state of health), just how many years do you
think they can afford to waste, waitiing around for those &%#@#'s at
the HOF?
>
They shouldn't be wasting their last years or decade or two working on
getting into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Do they want to be right
next to Prince? They need to be content with their many millions of
records sold and the place they have in the fans hearts. I wonder how
much stress is on them in their pursuit to get into the HOF? Instead
of going out and collecting signitures spend some time with the wife,
kis, or grandchildren.
They should take some comfort in the fact that they still have so many
people coming out to their shows that support them.
--- In , bruce d <wizzbangg2003@y...> wrote:
>
> Jacob, you are welcome to your opinions. To those of us who
consider ourselves real fans of The Ventures, there has never been a
question that they are absolutely one of the dominant rock acts of all
time.
>
> If measured on record sales, they were 6th in U.S. album sales,
during the 1960's, meaning that they appealed to a far larger and more
devoted audience than a large number of existing H.O.F. inductees ever
did!
>
> If measured on "influence", two generations of rock guitarists, some
of them legends themselves, cite The Ventures as having been an early
motivating, and instructional force in their lives.
>
> If measured based upon "hits", they charted in the Top 40 at least
three times, with Walk Don't Run (1960) #2 Nationwide; Walk Don't Run
'64, and Hawaii Five-O (1969).
>
> The use of the word "better" in comparing other bands, is a matter
of opinion. Better how? In muscianship, song-writing, longevity of
career, number of active fans?
>
> There's also a question of due-recognition and of the Hall of Fame
being fair and accurate in such recognition. Many people have
forgotten the name of the band, (The Chantays) who first recorded the
song "Pipeline", but they got their induction into the R&R Hall of
Fame, years ago, and were cited as having written and recorded one of
the most influential Instrumental tunes of all time. Likewise the
Surfaris, with "Wipe-Out".
>
> Now, Jacob, not to take away one iota of recognition from The
Chantays or The Surfaris, if you were The Ventures, don't you think
you would wonder why a song that pre-dated Wipe Out, and Pipeline, but
is considered by most Rock historians to have been the most
influential, essential hits of the era - Walk Don't Run, has failed so
far, to get The Ventures, (who taught the world to play guitar) into
the H.O.F.?
>
> A few years ago, Guitar Player Magazine listed the most essential
songs and albums of all time, (from a guitarist's perspective). The
Ventures were on the Top 20 list, NOT The Chantays, NOT The Surfaris.
Both the other bands had active careers that lasted but a few years.
(Yes, I know that both bands have resurrected themselves since the
1990's, and one can see them perform from time to time). The Ventures
weathered the onslaught of the British Invasion, survived the 1960's,
still responsible for Top 100 album sales 10 years after Walk Don't Run.
>
> In fact, as late as 1972, they were the world's #1 Instrumental
Pop/Rock Band according to the Playboy Pop and Jazz Poll!
>
> Most Ventures fans, including me, view the H.O.F.'s continued
ingoring of The Ventures to be a total travesty, an indication of
their unfitness to be an arbiter of what was or was not great, given
this patent lack of objectivity on their part, in steadfastly refusing
to admit The Ventures.
>
> My opinion, based on dozens and dozens of other acts that have been
admitted to the H.O.F.
> is that by any objective standard, based on already-admitted bands,
The Ventures absence represents a glaring, scandalous omission on the
part of those who run the H.O.F.
>
> You're welcome to your opinions, Jacob, but you won't find much
support for them on this discussion group. Certainly none from me.
>
> AllFame. surf musicians, and Surf Music fans owe a tremendoous debt
to The Ventures, and I for one, will continue to energetically and
enthusiastically support their way-overdue induction, at long last,
into the Rock & Roll Hall of
>
> One last thing, Jacob. You say the guys are trying too hard. Do
you have an ounce of empathy or compassion in your soul? At the
current age, (and likely state of health), just how many years do you
think they can afford to waste, waitiing around for those &%#@#'s at
the HOF?
>
> Bruce D
>
.
Visit for archived messages,
bookmarks, files, polls, etc.
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
