I bought this trem system for my strat and it wouldn't stay in tune, had poor action, and made my tone sound terrible. I highly recommend you stay away.

To answer the question of this thread.

The strat is more versatile, except when it has the Super Vee vibrato installed.

macsareback
Which is more versatile? Opinions are welcome.

also

Check this out for vibrato: Super Vee it's called, http://www.super-vee.com

it's a new locking trem system that is a simple mod, no drilling or anything complex.

Does this now make the strat king of surf guitar? You can do all the vibrato you want and stay in tune.

Yeah my guitar is set up well and never had tuning issues. Don't believe the hype.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

Properly set up, a stratocaster fulcrum trem is perfectly capable of staying in tune...even cheap copies of fenders.

However, locking nuts are not a total solution and not really that suitable even with quick release levers like this unless it has the ability to tune at the bridge end.

For the "Ultimate" tremolo I have been incredibly impressed with the khaler...i put one on the tele with a very small amount of top routing only...

This is a full range bridge of exceptional quality (which shows in the price) and would require some modification to fit even on a strat. It shares a lot with all the common trem systems.

When I say full range, it will go completely to slack and up until the strings break...yet return to pitch...at least as much as any floyd system if you are so inclined.

It comes with a locking nut and has tuners at the bridge to allow touching up the tuning when locked by the bridge hand while playing. It also has a small allen screw to allow it to be fixed (the hybrid feature). The tension and balance of the springs, and the arm rotation and stiffness are adjustable from the top.

I don't use a locking nut, but a combination of locking tuners...

These make for quick string changes and no slip and are staggered so does not require string trees...

Important to this system is the LSR roller bearing nut...the strings balance on two tiny bearings...the nut is not glued in but screwed from above and can be shimmed to varying heights...there is some dampening material behind the bearings to stop behind the nut string vibrations.

Altogether this makes for exceptional tuning stability and fast no tools string changes. The tone is great, very substantial piece of hardware but on my guitar hardly any routing (about 2" sq and 1" deep under the bridge).

The mechanism is a cam system. In some respects it is like the old jag, mustang or jazz type bridges but with a roller bridge built in. The intonation and string spread is adjustable. It also has a feel a little similar to a bigsby. Because of the roller bridge saddles, there is no risk of damping in the left hand pushing down on a floating bridge and putting it out of tune.

However, a strat bridge works extremely well and a modern system like this will hold it's tune with the roller nut and locking tuners that are standard on some high end strats. The LSR does require a permanent widening of the nut slot forward of the nut...so it is a non-reversible mod!

...

However, this is the absolute extreme end...the strat system has well stood the test of time. The other fenders have a curious action but some advantages, I have found for me they are a bit techy in the tuning department, especially for anything more than a warble.

...

As for versatility, between the strat and the jag...I personally think the strat has it...obviously proved itself in surf, rock and everything else...there are sounds from hendrix to knophler to Dick Dale in there clearly.

However, the Jag, or for mine the Jazzmaster, has a definite quirky cool factor. I get along better with a fulcrum strat like tremolo and feel it is a better design and a lot of the switches and tone circuits are a little archaic in this day and age and the strat in standard format has individual tone controls for two pickups if people really use them to that extent.

On the down side, the strat is pretty iconic while things like these alternate fenders have some obvious aesthetic cool appeal. I'd suggest you play a few of each type and more to make a decision like this...it's obviously not cheap.

...

However, if you are thinking of extreme wammi use that you feel you need locking nuts and such, well then that needs specialized equipment. I generally use the khaler for surf like dips and wobbles, not the extreme bends it's capable of so much...because of its action and features it is possibly the best at what it does (but it is not a straight retrofit). For surf though. all the tremolo systems will work and it is not really necessary to look further if properly set up and maintained.

pete

1 Mahogany HSS squier strat with trick wiring and noiseless SD JB pups...

other 1 Baby blue telecaster with tremolo, Fender WR-HB and DIY sustainer...

amp...fender hotrod deluxe + 15" cab!

While there's a certain amount of overlap in the sounds of a Strat and a Jag, each has "signature tones" that the other can't really duplicate. It's worthwhile to have both at your disposal for the range of surf "moods". I play a Strat more often but there are some songs that demand a Jag.

I've had a couple of guitars with either Kahler or Floyd Rose systems and found them to be incredible pains in the butt. Some people like 'em, though, so they must have some merit. Too complex and finicky for my taste.

You can dramatically improve the tuning stability of a Strat by lubricating all points of contact between the strings and other parts of the guitar. Pencil graphite in the nut slots, Vaseline on the bridge saddles and Chapstick under the string trees. I've also switched out the tuners to the Fender/Schaller locking type -- like the ones SuRfAcE is using on the Tele above. Mine aren't the graduated-height variety so I still have string trees.

-- Woody

It takes a lot of mussel memory to avoid clams.

Thanks all

I've owned two Kahlers and in my opinion they suck tone and sustain. I also don't think the locking nut does anything other than create a PITA for the user.

In theory the Kahler should be the ultimate trem...and I think if they got rid of the roller saddles, the fine tuners, and the locking nut...plus made it out of steel or aluminum it could possibly be a great trem. As-is it isn't as good as the vintage style Strat trem or the JM/Jag trem for tone in my opinion.

www.apollo4.com

estreet
Locking trems are a real pain if you play with the side of your hand resting on the bridge like I do. Also useless for a quick string change at a gig. Best left to the widdlers and dive-bombers I say...

Well, I have to disagree here. Yes you have to be aware of the pressure you apply the the bridge when muting, but you're an experienced dude, and if you CHOSE to learn to use a floyd you'd have no problem. They serve a purpose. They aren't for everyone, or every style. They will never sound near as full and bright through a clean amp as strat "string through trem block" type designed bridge. Never. Even with all those aftermarket 2 pound trem blocks they sell

The difference between adjusting a floyd rose and a floating 2 point trem is... well the locking nut! I say this after just (literally, in the last 20 minutes) rebuilding a 15 year old floyd. And as to quick change strings, they have actually adressed that with their speedloaders. No more clamping a cut string end at the bridge. You slide a ball end string in through the bridge, very much like a top loading tele.

I love my old Hamer. I have thought of replacing the locking nut with a roller nut and seeing if I could swap a wilkinson in for the floyd without replacing the posts because I have a different musical lifestyle than I did from "81 to '95. A two point trem is all I want on this guitar, and yes the floyd does present some difficulties at time. But then again who ever said the jazzmaster bridge was well mannered

Yep!!

SuRfAcE
Properly set up, a stratocaster fulcrum trem is perfectly capable of staying in tune...even cheap copies of fenders.

However, locking nuts are not a total solution and not really that suitable even with quick release levers like this unless it has the ability to tune at the bridge end.

For the "Ultimate" tremolo I have been incredibly impressed with the khaler...i put one on the tele with a very small amount of top routing only...

This is a full range bridge of exceptional quality (which shows in the price) and would require some modification to fit even on a strat. It shares a lot with all the common trem systems.

When I say full range, it will go completely to slack and up until the strings break...yet return to pitch...at least as much as any floyd system if you are so inclined.

It comes with a locking nut and has tuners at the bridge to allow touching up the tuning when locked by the bridge hand while playing. It also has a small allen screw to allow it to be fixed (the hybrid feature). The tension and balance of the springs, and the arm rotation and stiffness are adjustable from the top.

I don't use a locking nut, but a combination of locking tuners...

These make for quick string changes and no slip and are staggered so does not require string trees...

Very cool. I like how you used part of a fat tele pickguard to take the place of a bridge plate. What are the extra controls for?

http://www.reverbnation.com/thedeadranchhands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZEW74mHjQk